Please forgive the title error. I thought I removed the first mention of foster sister. I am the ex-foster sister of Ramon Rogers. Not double serial killers, that I know of... I did have other foster brothers at that home, heh.

Questions seem to be winding down now at 10:00 EST. I'll head to bed now, but please feel welcome to ask me. I'll still pop in around my life schedule to respond unless I become emotionally overcome.

My great thanks to all who participated, you had amazing questions and were all very kind. Thank you for understanding the nature of the AMA and being kind with me. I would have answered anyway... but I am sincerely grateful!

I will begin at 8:30 pm EST Feb. 6, 2019 (a half hour from now) so that I don't get overwhelmed (hopefully).

TruePic: https://truepic.com/g8g9ghi8

My mother's name is Marie Ann Watson: http://charleyproject.org/case/marie-ann-watson

Her subreddit: r/MarieAnnWatson

Link to 1996 News footage when my mother's death was investigated, with me in the footage to compare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZYXbHCqKps

My foster brother at the time my mother "disappeared" is Ramon Rogers: http://murderpedia.org/male.R/r/rogers-ramon-jay.htm

This is the shortest possible version of my story... (I will try to refer to my mom as Marie for ease of understanding).

In 1977, three years after losing my half brother and me due to going to jail for prostitution and possession; my mother was embroiled in a custody battle to get us back from Mike and Dorothy Rogers. Dorothy was Marie's Aunt.

2 days before the Rogerses were to be served papers granting Marie custody, she mysteriously vanished, leaving behind her car, all identification, an uncashed paycheck, and her wallet with a bit of money in it. She also left her keys.

I remember watching as Mike, Dorothy, Ramon, and 2 other people dismembered her. I was 6. I was hiding while they were doing it. We were removed from that household a year later, after a nationwide manhunt that extended from Idaho and up into Washington state, all the way to Arkansas where we were finally rescued from them.

The home was extremely violent. Dorothy and Mike were both prone to such extreme rages that they literally tortured some of us. Mike was found guilty of "incest" (plead down to) after violently raping one of my 14 year old foster sisters. Interestingly, he fled two days before the warrant was to be served on him for raping her. Previously, my brother had escaped and reached the safety of the Sheriff's dept. He was brutally beaten and thought he had escaped. They took him back and dumped him on the doorstep.

Ramon is in prison on unrelated charges, found guilty of 3 homicides. His MO was dismemberment.

In 1996, bones were dug up from under the house we lived in when it happened. A DNA est came back inconclusive. Without the positive ID, the PA decided not to proceed with the investigation. Unfortunately, the Sheriff's dept. continually hangs up on and refuses to read emails from not only me and a woman from NAMUS who was trying to help in 2014, but has also told the State Police to piss off and they won't release the bones for retesting. Yes, it's legal in Idaho.

There is a LOT more to read and discover in her Subreddit. In the meantime... AMA.

Comments: 224 • Responses: 88  • Date: 

PalestinianLiberator122 karma

How did witnessing something so horrific affect your growth and development? (Sorry that it's a pretty big question, I've just always wondered this when reading about crimes like this)

Sandi_T271 karma

It is indeed a huge question. Also one that I'm not 100% sure I could ever answer fully.

I can give a bit of a bullet list, though it's far from comprehensive, and a lot of it is tied up in the torture I exprienced while with the Rogerses, as well. I can only in a few instances separate out slightly what came from what I witnessed, versus what came from the entire paradigm of that house of horrors. For one example, not only was I tortured, but they had a butcher pit inside the house where they slaughtered animals. The things that happened there are literally unbelievable. It makes it that much harder to explain.

Anyway, on to the bullet list:

  • I wet the bed until I was 13. This was definitely linked to my mother's murder; I was afraid of what horrific thing I might see if I got out of bed at night.
  • I have had severe, chronic insomnia to the tune of 2-4 hours of sleep almost every single night for decades. The smallest sound, ones most other people wouldn't even notice, can wake me in fear for hours.
  • I have struggled socially, of course.
  • I am either autistic, or the abuse was so severe that my response to it was the same thing as an autistic person's. What I witnessed that night is linked only partly to this.
  • I had multiple birth defects, but I also have damage both visible and invisible from the abuse. I do believe that the shock of knowing my mother was dead set me back developmentally, also. I didn't really speak much or well until I was about 8, at which time my speech impediment made it nearly impossible still to understand me.
  • I have struggled to keep a job in some cases.
  • I rarely if ever trust people. Sadly, since the perpetrators were both sexes, I struggle with both sexes.
  • I have had a lifetime of "misfortune", probably brought about as much by horrible luck as by my inability to understand how to be in a society that considers me and "people like me" to be intrinsically broken and thus without value. As they did with my mother. There was no investigation when she vanished.
  • I have struggled with feelings of shame and guilt about it. I genuinely believed for much of my life that it was somehow my fault.
  • I used to constantly question my reality. SO many people called me a liar, how could everyone around me be wrong and only me be right?
  • I cannot remember a day in my life when i wasn't suicidal.

There's a lot more, really. It has been a very difficult row to hoe for a long time. I had to stop asking myself why I was even trying, because having no answer, it became a dangerous question for me.

MamaBear448560 karma

I have struggled with feelings of shame and guilt about it. I genuinely believed for much of my life that it was somehow my fault.

Sweet lady, although some portions of society equate monetary success with "value", there are many others far more wise who consider other things infinitely more worthwhile. Things like survival against the odds, courage, endurance, compassion, hope in the face of the seemingly impossible, kindness, grace, tenacity. I could go on but I think you will understand what I am trying to say.

It takes immense power and courage to survive the experiences you have had. Resist the urge to criticise yourself for not being "perfect" in your survival, for that is a common lie abusers try to drum into the minds of their targets. There are those among us who have overcome the unimaginable and will always have to work harder than others just to function. Because it is almost unimaginable, some people in the same society don't have the ability to empathise or understand. that is their limitation and has nothing to do with your value.

Your story reminds me of Elizabeth Smart. The movie might not be something for you to watch but you might want to consider reaching out to her foundation.

If you are under medical/psychological care you may want to consult your care providers first but that's your call. You are a survivor and a hero. May you find peace.

Sandi_T28 karma

I have done some looking into her. I relate very much to her. I didn't know she had a foundation, though, I mostly read the stories and such. Thank you!

I know that I have done something pretty unbelievable just by surviving, and yet I yearn for so much more. That has always been my failing... wanting more. Not content to stay "where I belong". Not even sure WHERE I belong, really.

Thank you so much for the loving reminder that money isn't everything.

whiskey__wizard54 karma

I’m so sorry, I feel for you. Something that helps me sometimes is telling yourself they can’t hurt you anymore. In the present moment you are safe and in control of your own life. I highly recommend “The power of now” by Eckhart Tolle.

I realize this may seem like a twig to hold onto while drowning, but hope it can help.

Sandi_T53 karma

I have read it, gained benefit from it, thank you.

I practice the Sedona Method regularly. It has helped me tremendously, but this particular issue just seems stuck.

Automatic_nun_gun14 karma

You’re so strong, I wanna give up every day and all I’m dealing with is trying to stay clean from a self imposed drug addiction. The fact that you are functioning after such an ordeal is a great inspiration to me. I’m sorry and thank you.

Sandi_T9 karma

You can do this. I fear addiction because it is seductive. I know you can make it through and beat it.

Did you read my comment about self-forgiveness, by chance?

ibuysleep9 karma

In order to have autism, you need to show symptoms from early developmental period (around 2yrs). It's something that you have from birth, and it’s genetic (or very likely to be).

As for things that appear similar to autism, I made a list here, some may be caused by trauma and you might wanna look into them.

Sandi_T54 karma

I'm not concerned about getting a specific diagnosis. I have all the symptoms of it and have had since I can remember. Where the symptoms originate doesn't change that I have had to fight and overcome them all on my own. Saying I'm autistic helps people understand the challenges I face, even if I'm not factually autistic.

Nobody was diagnosing me with anything in 1973 except "retardation". I was called a retard until I was diagnosed autistic around age 9. I was already in special ed and there I stayed, because "it's a form of retardation" (was a direct quote from them).

I'm old enough now that I no longer care, as long as people can understand what I've gone through and maybe understand me a little better. It also explains to some degree why I was so hated by everyone around me "for no apparent reason".

Sam-Gunn14 karma

I'm old enough now that I no longer care, as long as people can understand what I've gone through and maybe understand me a little better.

That's an amazing statement coming from you (well, anybody who has lived through severe damage and trauma, but in this case it's from you). I've been reading your comments, and I don't think if I even experienced a half of what you did, I'd be able to be as articulate and understanding as you are, if sane at all.

You are a testimate to how tough humans can be, even under the worst circumstances. I've always felt that it's part of my job as a human being to read and learn about some of the worst pieces of human history, from the Holocaust to the Khmer Rogue to the DPRK (North Korea) Concentration Camps that exist today. It wasn't easy or fun, but I felt it necessary.

Your account of your life shocked me to the core, and I've only read the comments as I am at work and just taking a break. I'm going to watch the linked video. This is after reading, and in some cases even viewing (for instance, there is a video on display in the Israel Holocaust Museum of bodies being bulldozed into a ditch) some of the most horrific abuses perpetrated by humans.

Nobody was diagnosing me with anything in 1973 except "retardation". I was called a retard until I was diagnosed autistic around age 9. I was already in special ed and there I stayed, because "it's a form of retardation" (was a direct quote from them).

My sister is a special Ed teacher for early childhood education. Her main goal is to prevent this sort of thing from ever happening again, and give kids with severe issues and disabilities and illnesses like autism good educations so someday they can be the best they can be in society.

I did some IT work for her school once, and I got talking to this older guy who teaches there. He's about 55 - 60. He said that when he was in school, he was once pulled up in front of the class and his teacher told everybody to not be "lazy and stupid like he was". It was only when he was in his 20's was he actually diagnosed with learning disabilities, which allowed him to become a special needs teacher.

Where the symptoms originate doesn't change that I have had to fight and overcome them all on my own. Saying I'm autistic helps people understand the challenges I face, even if I'm not factually autistic.

Its' enough to covey what you need to convey, and that's the point! Whenever people claim that autistic people are stupid or not able to function in society, I point to examples of people like you, who overcame their disabilities DESPITE the world around them, not with help from the world around them like I was fortunate enough to receive.

Keep inspiring people, Sandi. Stay strong, and know that many people see you as an inspiration to current and future generations.

Sandi_T39 karma

Early on when I was a state ward after being taken from my grandparents (I was about 15 when remanded to Care, and about 17 when this happened), I was seeing a psychiatrist.

I told her my story, cutting out a whole bunch that I was ashamed of (turned on curling irons shoved into me as punishment for 'seducing' Mike, for example)... and she said to me, even without full knowledge, "What you've been through is a holocaust. You went through a personal holocaust." Intellectually, I understood it. That really made me realize the truth of what she had just said. (It makes me cry to this day. She GOT IT, she really GOT IT, and that's something I've never experienced fully before or since)

That knowledge was purely intellectual until Nov. 2017 when, during NaNoWriMo (National Novel Writing Month) I decided to write that 4 year span as a "based on a true story" novel. As event after event rolled out into the keyboard, it began to sink in for me on a profound level...

The stark unrelenting misery of it, the aloneness, the constant terror and desperation... it slammed home inside me. I had carefully kept every event isolated from the other events. Like they were each in their own private little drawer, and I only looked at the ONE drawer I wanted to look at, at any given time.

The book forced me to step back and see how massive the 'chest of drawers' actually is. It ceased to be a series of events and became four years of privation, squalor, suffering, terror, unending unendurable pain... It was hard. It was so hard. It also took me by surprise. I had been SO adept at keeping it all compartmentalized that seeing it all laid out in an honest way tore through me.

And I wish it had ended there. People always want the happily ever after. "Oh, you went to your grandparents, well, that's good, then!" and they got their happily ever after ending. I typically just smile and nod, because I have learned that they NEED it. They NEED it like a drowning man needs a buoy.

It wasn't like that, though. It has been long and difficult and the path has fought me tooth, claw, and nail for every inch I've eked out of it.

I listen to people say things like, "get help" to those who are hurting and it makes me enraged. "Help" in the USA is way too expensive, and it rarely even actually DOES help if you manage to get it.

Meh, sorry. That soapbox came out of nowhere!

ShanaDoobyDoo12 karma

I have learned that they NEED it

That's because it's impossible for them to understand a special level of hell even if they try which is why I personally think it's just easier not to talk about it. I get that the vast majority of people cannot comprehend such a situation or its lifelong effects, but still on some level I don't think one can help but feel diminished by the typical sympathetic responses.

Sandi_T20 karma

I think I have to talk about it because as a victim, I'm tempted to be silent to protect myself. It's easier. It's simpler. I'm just not certain that, for me, it's right.

People get away with thinking "that never really happens" because those of us who know it DOES, shut our mouths to protect ourselves. I just can't let people get away with turning a blind eye; that was part of how this all came about. "Mind your own business".

Sometimes, don't mind your own business. You could save a life.

ShanaDoobyDoo6 karma

That's probably healthier than the alternative as well. Sure is a hell of a lot harder too though. But I don't think it's so much about minding your own business as it is more wanting to believe the "reasons" and excuses. I mean if it's not true how can you rationalize the life of a dirty kid living in squalor being scarred for life, it's just so much easier not to confront the elephant in the room.

Sandi_T4 karma

Yes, people definitely love their avoidance almost to a point of insanity. :(

ibuysleep-3 karma

[deleted]

Sandi_T18 karma

I was traumatized from birth to age 8... and not a lot better at 9, either.

However, I was premature, drug addicted and drunk at birth, have multiple birth defects, was strangled and nearly drowned numerous times...

So who knows what it could be from. "Autistic" is the easiest way to express it, so far as I'm concerned. People "get" that. When i say, "I was traumatized and so I threw tables, refused to eat at the table, tried to only eat dog food, etc." they feel they need to hear the whole story so that they can promptly call me a liar.

ForTheSakeOfFlowers4 karma

If you don't mind recounting it, what were the things that happened that were literally unbelievable?

Sandi_T13 karma

You do know that curiosity killed the cat, right? :P This is a much more stark and painful question than you realize. You may come to regret it.

It's mostly the litany of things piled on top of each other. Any one of these things (except one) which happened in isolation, people might find believable. It's the combined weight of them all together which begins to strain credulity for the majority.

First, even many of the people who CAN believe all of the rest happened to me, don't believe I was subjected to ritual type abuses. As soon as the word ritual comes up, they stick their fingers in their ears and shriek "SATANIC PANIC, STFU! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" Metaphorically speaking. They try to be polite about it (most, there's one floating around here who at least is consistent about it and just disbelieves me literally in full, without cherry-picking and while ignoring all evidence, and he's quite the jerk about it).

In the end, though, they like to say that it's implanted memories (it isn't; my personal memory doesn't work that way, because I'm autistic), or they say that it's recovered memories (even though I point out I have remembered it literally all my life, they still stubbornly insist on this). In essence, they refuse to accept anything except that I made it up. They believe everything else, but they don't like that one so they decide it's made up. They want to cherry-pick what they believe. The cop investigating has said, "This was definitely happening. People have admitted it. The kids all say the same thing even without having seen each other since childhood" (age 7 for me, for example, 14 for one, etc.) They just say, in a less blunt way, "Cops are stupid, they believe anything; that's how the Satanic Panic happened."

But even without that, my experience strain people's ability to accept. The immense proportions of what I experienced is often more than most can conceptualize and I genuinely believe that after a time, their minds just start to shut out the possibility of that much happening to a person because it seems unsurvivable.

But there are things which are especially difficult to accept, and because the only "evidence" available is 'circumstantial', I have had to accept that even the most accepting will struggle with certain parts.

Here is the most severe and extreme one beyond the ritual abuse itself. It is marked NSFW. Be fairly forewarned that IT IS NOT SAFE FOR WORK. It is NOT SAFE for extremely sensitive readers. It is horrible and the thought alone of it may be more than some people can handle. If you read it, have r/Eyebleach or kitten videos ready. That's not exaggeration, except for people with no sensitivity towards children.

The rest is simply that the things I experienced are too many, too much for most to accept.

  • I was forced to eat dog food on the floor, because "you are not a person".
  • I was sometimes wrapped in an unused cattle fence and shocked repeatedly until Dorothy got tired of it.
  • I had turned on curling irons shoved inside me as punishment for 'seducing' Mike.
  • I was often locked into a small corner table for hours.
  • I was forced to stand all day in 'time out', not allowed to drink, eat, or use the bathroom.
  • I was frequently strangled until I passed out. Sometimes, she had to resuscitate me. Child resuscitation was a mandatory training for foster parents and re-certification was required frequently.
  • She also enjoyed trying to drown me, versus merely strangling me.
  • I was forced to take baths in tepid water that she would add ice to until I was shivering so hard I couldn't get out on my own.
  • I do not recall ever having been chained, but several of the boys were frequently chained to their beds, which were bolted to the floor. While this may have 'nothing' to do with me, I found it distressing beyond words.
  • Dorothy would make Mike tie me up outside, naked and upside-down until I had a sunburn on my entire body almost. What most may not realize is that after a short time, being upside down begins to increase in discomfort and from there, the trip is fast. I doubt I was outside longer than an hour or so in these cases; I burn almost instantly. Regardless, just the being upside down and trying to hold myself up once in a while to reduce the pain (and of course failing to do it for very long) was agonizing after a while. It doesn't take long to become miserable.
  • Of course there were the typical beatings; I was also whipped, dragged by the hair, my extremities stomped on, cigars and cigarettes put out on my arms, locked in closets.
  • My bed and blanket was a small pile of rags on the floor, like the 'other' worthless bitches (actual dogs) got.
  • I was forced at times to clean up after the older foster sister when Mike impregnated her and Dorothy took offense and kicked her in the stomach until she miscarried and practically flooded the bathroom with blood.
  • My face was rubbed in my own urine, excrement, or vomit if I "soiled myself" after/during standing all day long in 'time out'. Just like some people do to dogs, yes.
  • I was gang raped by Mike and other people at occasional "parties". Being small, frail, blue-eyed and blond, I was a strong favorite. People who enjoy hurting the most defenseless thing they can find, found me irresistible.
  • I was dragged behind a car a few times. Admitted rare, but unforgettable.

There's more, but I just don't want to keep going. To write them, I have to remember them, and I just can't. I've hit most of the "highlights". The most extreme things. I try not to recall everything all at once like this, it slowly eats away at my careful compartmentalization. Enjoy.

i_luv_derpy51 karma

Is it possible those bones are not your mother? Is it possible there were other victims? Also, are you hoping they can be retested to get a better chance at identifying them as your mother?

Sandi_T94 karma

Both are definitely possible. It's also possible that they are just animal bones. I do hope they could be retested and be my mother's bones. Since I know beyond all doubt that she is dead, that would be the best outcome in my mind.

Koa91491491413 karma

Exactly - this seems like a perfectly reasonable request, if they don’t wish to do it you should be able to request scientific testing be done on the bones

Sandi_T12 karma

Exactly. The part that staggers me about the whole thing is that THEY wouldn't have to do the testing, wouldn't have to pay for it, nothing... just release the damned things.

hypotyposis2 karma

I’m not trying to be insensitive and I’m sorry if this question comes off that way, but how would knowing the bones are your mom’s bring you peace of mind?

Sandi_T21 karma

The lack of "body" is the primary preventing of criminal charges. Dorothy is still loose and hurting people. She shouldn't be. Every day she has access to her 'grandchildren' or any other children is a day that preys upon my mind.

In fact, she is such a monster that I truly believe that she should die in solitary confinement for the protection of others, not as a punishment. Nobody gets paid enough to handle the horrific things she says and does. NOBODY.

DANKKrish2 karma

Isn't it possible that the cops are also in this? or got bribed to stay silent?

Sandi_T1 karma

Yes, it's completely possible. I have no proof beyond this, however, so there's little point in me saying it whether out loud or not.

adrianakeehl1 karma

This whole situation is so frustrating and that she is still free is....horrifying

Sandi_T1 karma

Yes. And Michelle still lives with her; lived with her with her own children, also. That this monster has access to children, ever continued to have access to children, is among the greatest injustices I have ever known personally and directly.

burnsalot60335 karma

What reason is the sheriff's office using to not retest the bones? You said the state police tried to help you, so why wouldn't the sheriff just give them the case? Every police tv show I've ever seen leads me to believe they would be happy to give away a 30 year old cold case.

Sandi_T82 karma

The State is carrying on without them, they just can't walk in and take the bones, though. The Sheriff's dept. is sovereign within their county.

There is no reason given. They ignore, refuse to respond, and generally blatantly refuse to be involved or cooperate to any degree on any level. They have done this since 2014 no matter who asks.

I cannot explain it. I've been told that they are just lazy and angry at being "bothered" over "something so trivial." I do not know the accuracy of that, but there you have it.

Bris_Throwaway27 karma

They ignore, refuse to respond, and generally blatantly refuse to be involved or cooperate to any degree on any level.

I'd love to hear a rational explanation from someone in Law Enforcement as to why officers would act in this manner.

Sandi_T23 karma

I cannot, for the life of me, imagine an acceptable one.

burnsalot60325 karma

Wow that's really shitty. I can't believe there is no recourse to force them to turn over evidence.

I'm not a lawyer by any means but given your testimony would it be possible to sue them to release the bones to you since you are next of kin? I'm sure they will fight saying you can't know if your next of kin but that's your argument, they dont know either and your testimony should be reason enough to force another DNA test to prove what you are saying. I'm sure that a lawyer can make that argument better than I just did. Or is mike, dorothy, ramon or one of the other 2 still alive? Maybe you could file charges against them and say the sheriff is withholding evidence in a murder case?

I'm sorry they won't help you, that's got to be incredibly frustrating. Just reading it makes me mad at the sheriff. What is wrong with them? It isn't like they have to do any extra work, just send the bones to a lab. That doesn't seem like a big ask.

Sandi_T35 karma

If I could afford to, I would certainly hire representation and try to do something. Maybe someday, since my financial situation is improving rapidly.

vanpireweekemd25 karma

Maybe you would consider starting GoFundMe or other crowd funding campaign? I can tell there's a large group of people who would like to help you with this here!

Sandi_T27 karma

I guess I have a very deep aversion to asking for help/ asking for money/ etc. :(

RLucas300013 karma

Have you at least tried to contact the FBI? I think they are sovereign over a local sheriff.

Also how old was your step-brother when you mom died? Do you think what your aunt and uncle did to all of you ended up making him a serial killer?

Sandi_T16 karma

I contacted the FBI. They angrily told me it was a local matter and if it wasn't a crime that crossed state lines, then there's nothing they can do.

Ramon was 17 at the time, and they definitely groomed him to be a killer. I have no doubt at all; I'm not sure they intended him to kill people, necessarily... outside of inconvenient ones like my mom...

RLucas30008 karma

I would think at the very least, the FBI would be interested in any information you can provide about your brother, as they are always trying to fine tune their information on serial killers to help with future profiles.

Did he torment you growing up, or was he a fellow victim? Did you feel you had any allies in the home?

Sandi_T9 karma

He assisted in 'punishment'. So basically he tortured me, too. Much less than the others, because he wasn't around much.

I definitely had no allies, but mostly because it was "everyone for themselves".

RLucas30004 karma

Did your aunt and uncle ever get a lot of jail time, I hope

Sandi_T10 karma

No. They got nothing for that, although Mike got a few years for "incest" for savagely raping one of the foster sisters, who escaped and THAT time the Sheriff listened (new Sheriff by that point).

katie_jaii34 karma

Why didn’t you tell anyone you saw your mom dismembered?

Sandi_T128 karma

This is a layered question, and the answers are sort of hard to define clearly and succinctly.

At the time, because I am autistic and have a speech impediment, no one thought to ask me. In the vernacular of the time, I was "retarded" and nobody was going to ask "a retard" what happened. Equally unfortunate, I was a child. Children, of course, make things up and are utterly unreliable, don't'cha know (again, mindset of the late 70s).

After we were removed from the Rogers home, I was placed eventually with her parents, my grandparents. At that time, I did actually tell my grandmother. She blatantly called me a liar, told me that I had seen a movie where that happened and had made it all about me. She made it abundantly clear that I was NEVER to speak of it again.

However, I still continually told pretty much everyone I knew that my mother had been murdered and chopped up and fed to pigs.

For some odd reason, in spite of it being true, nobody believed me. I (for real) found this baffling. I mean, I WAS telling the truth, so why did not one believe me? I had a very narrow (and autistic) view of the world.

I did finally learn not to talk about it anymore, until in 1996 when the police showed up at my door, "Do you remember Raymond?" (That was Ramon's foster name--the Rogerses changed all of our names). "Well, he was just arrested with dismembered bodies in his storage area. We wanted to make sure one of them wasn't you."

I then said, "Want to know where he learned that?" and the 1996 investigation began. However, even the investigating officer got "allowance" to investigate... no one else was taking it seriously. Those things, they just don't happen, you know??

scarletmagnolia55 karma

I’ve read your story many times through various posts. I think this is the first time I realized Dorthy was your mother’s aunt, your great-aunt.

You were sent to live with Marie’s parents? One them was the sibling of Dorthy? How close was the relationship between the siblings? Your grandmother accused you of lying, so what did she think happened to her daughter?

I still cannot believe the horrors you have endured in your life. Just know, people are cheering you on from the sidelines. Don’t give up.

Sandi_T65 karma

This is a very complex question, actually. Lucille = my grandmother, Marie's mother. Dorothy is Lucille's youngest sister...

But wait, not so simple. There are abundant rumors that Dorothy is actually Lucille's first daughter, whom she left behind to be raised as if her sister. That was common practice at the time.

Dorothy believes this to be the case. I was recently contacted by family who hotly informed me that Lucille was only 10 when Dorothy was born and to "stop telling lies". I will note simply that the birth dates indicate Lucille was 14 when Dorothy was born.

I do not have factual evidence either way.

They hate each other, and Dorothy had a strong rivalry and hatred for Lucille for "abandoning her".

I do not know what Lucille thought happened to my mother. Oddly, she seemed to accept that she had been murdered. She talked about Rocky (one of the other foster kids) seeing Mike carrying Marie inside the house. He said she was dead. That's when I told her my story. She believed Rocky, but not me...

Then again, I had a knack for telling stories, but the thing people miss is that I always admitted when they were stories. I knew then and I know now which things were made-up and which weren't.

Thank you so much for your support and kind words. They really do mean a lot.

Extreme_Opening34 karma

How did you move on in life ? Do you need to see psychologist. Do you support any organizations for support group ?

Sandi_T71 karma

I don't know if I ever "moved on" as much as learned to, in old fashioned terms, knuckle down, put my shoulder to the grindstone, and plod on relentlessly. I didn't really have much choice on that part, I felt.

The most help I ever got was oddly Al-Anon (for friends and family of alcoholics). It helped me in many areas of my life.

As far as psychiatry goes, it didn't really help me. I honestly have to say that the counselors didn't seem able to handle it well. They either became grossly over-interested in the lurid details of the sexual abuse (squick!) or they would repeatedly try to get me to just talk about it over and over and I really wanted "now" help.

smurfsm0021 karma

I know someone who can help you. He is very tough and empathetic and works with survivors of untold childhood horrors. He is also a very good person & works for one of the top centers on childhood trauma and attachment issues. Please consider reaching out to him. D. Jones - Karen Purvis institute of Child Development

You are incredibly brave and strong to be alive with what you’ve experienced. You deserve to live a long and happy life, to love and be loved by others, to trust & to truly heal from the horrors of your childhood. I am in awe of you. All the love I can send through the internet, I’m sending your way. ❤️❤️❤️❤️

Sandi_T8 karma

I'll try calling and seeing if anything comes of it. I doubt he can help much, as I'm an adult and he works with children. That being said, I'll be getting the book to help my daughter. She lives in fear at the other house, and I think it might help with some of her behavioral challenges.

Thank you so much for the link, even if that's all I do get from it!

nadalcameron33 karma

So you are a active foster sister to one serial killer and ex foster sister to another?

Sandi_T44 karma

Damn, I thought I fixed that. I am the ex foster sister of a serial killer. Thanks for letting me know. Not sure if I should resubmit or eat crow, lol.

HotLeafJuice129 karma

do you have some moments that stand out to you as an adult that you consider turning points/breakthroughs in moving past this? or any favorite moments in your life since this that you'd care to share?

Sandi_T102 karma

When I was rescued, I was 8 when I ended up at my grandparent's farm. They had a dog, a black lab. She was my best and only friend until the magical moment when "my" filly was born. I was a horse girl, and I truly loved that horse.

Years later, we left the farm and they sold the horse. Bear with me on this one, it sounds bad, but takes a turn, I swear. They learned that she (my horse, 'Pachy) had been shot in the face. She would survive, but never be able to be ridden with a bridle, only a hackamore. I was devastated and tried to find a way to return to the farm and see her (I was 15 at the time and not the most logical of all thinkers).

To that end, I tried to take the family car, but the friend who was encouraging me to this venture couldn't drive it (it was diesel and she didn't understand the choke). Eventually through various mishaps, in our desperation... we stole a car.

Well... long story, short... we did not make it. We managed to get home with a bus ticket purchased by a local church (local to the place we ended up). When we got home, the long arm of the law came a'callin'.

He was an AWESOME cop. He finally got me to admit that I wasn't the one who wanted to steal the car. He sat me down alone and finally, all the hell my grandparents had put me through came tumbling out and I just couldn't stop it. I told him everything about living with them.

I got a joyriding charge. I had to apologize to the woman whose car we took. But I also was removed from their custody and even though I went through some really hard things during that time... it was nothing compared to the way I had been living (which was also a VAST upgrade from Mike and Dorothy, by the way, to give credit where it's due).

o~0~o

Another incident which really stuck with me for the many years to come was when I was pregnant the first time (I only have 1 child living with me, but have had 3 full term pregnancies and several miscarriages). I was in yet another bad situation (nobody really taught me how to make good choices; not that it's an excuse, but it is definitely a reason).

A family, last name Viter, was part of a program for unwed mothers who wanted to complete their pregnancies. They took me into their home, sight-unseen. They trusted me. They loved me. They didn't give up on me. I did leave their home and because of what happened with my child (which I don't wish to discuss), I couldn't keep bring myself to keep in touch with them. A fact which I regret to this day.

Suffice to say that they were the closest I had come to feeling loved and maybe even lovable, up to that point. I will remember them forever.

o~0~o

And, my current workplace is a 6 person shop. The family who owns it is half the workforce. They are now the closest, next to the Viters, I have ever come to feeling like family, to feeling loved and having a sense of being if not wanted, at least not unwanted.

Well, that made me cry. Thanks. I think. ;)

HotLeafJuice130 karma

Thank you for the beautiful reply. I enjoy the way you write. And I'm happy that your last memory/moment is in the present.

Sandi_T69 karma

My daughter, born in 2006, is everything I live for. I can honestly say that, if I had to do it all again or she would never get to exist... I wouldn't hesitate.

Sendinthegimp13 karma

Are they still around? If so, would you be willing to reach out to them?

Assuming they can be reached, there's no doubt doing that would be emotionally challenging but it might be a good thing. I think there's something to finding and keeping (or reviving) relationships with people you love and who love you.

Life is short and full of people who don't care. Keep the ones who do close.

Sandi_T9 karma

I don't know. I don't have contact information of any kind for them. :( I'd love to talk to them again, but it's not as simple as googling them so far. :(

Sandi_T22 karma

Questions seem to be winding down now at 10:00 EST. I'll head to bed now, but please feel welcome to ask me. I'll still pop in around my life schedule to respond unless I become emotionally overcome.

My great thanks to all who participated, you had amazing questions and were all very kind. Thank you for understanding the nature of the AMA and being kind with me. I would have answered anyway... but I am sincerely grateful!

twirlingpink22 karma

I'm so sorry for your loss and trauma. I can't even imagine how devastating that would be to live through. What do you remember about your mother? Any favorite memories?

Sandi_T52 karma

Sadly, I remember very little of her. What I do remember are mostly snippets. I remember the mass of freckles on her arms. She would hold me with my back against her chest (edited to clarify that; I had it backwards) and I would spend hours just absorbed by the freckles on her arm. I have the same freckles.

I remember playing "the ground is lava" with her and my half-brother. Basically, tires were laid out, and you had to go from tire to tire without touching the ground, or you could be tagged "out". I always lost, but she would swing me around and laugh every time, so I wasn't overly upset by it.

Other than that, there are painful memories such as begging her to rescue us, of her rescuing me from being sexually abused by her husband... memories not as pure and beautiful as the two above.

non_ducor_duco_20 karma

I know I’m late to the party, but I was wondering if you had ever tried to reach out to any elected officials to help increase the pressure on the Sheriff?

Sandi_T17 karma

I have not, because I don't live there and technically, since I am not their constituents, they don't have to do diddly for me. In fact, some people have warned me that even trying to do so is iffy legally, and since I have no idea why, I have been afraid to proceed.

TheAlmightyice13 karma

Then reach out to your state representative. They work together.

Sandi_T22 karma

One of the first things I tried. "Could you talk to the ID reps about this?" and the very irritated response was, "That would be illegal" with a 'duh, obviously' tone and then I was hung up on.

TheAlmightyice15 karma

In that case try reaching out to local reporters. Most of them have public Facebook accounts these days. Usually takes a few days but they almost always respond. Some will be too busy on some story and some will be willing to talk and break the story.

Sandi_T12 karma

There is a current gag order on them... which really upset and frustrated me.

dasahriot9 karma

Can I ask what you mean by gag order? That just doesn't sound at all legal

Sandi_T19 karma

They have been told not to speak of "an ongoing murder investigation". Since they have called it 'ongoing' they can now silence the media. It is legal to if they can make reasonable 'cause' that it would negatively impact whatever they are trying to do (like get them to turn on each other, or to protect witnesses, etc.).

dasahriot6 karma

Ugh that's so shitty. I don't see how that could hold up in court in this case, since the standards for a gag order on the media are super high, but it's a moot point anyway if no one in the media is interested in spending their money and time fighting it.

Also I'm not a lawyer and don't know the details, so I could be way off base here. I just know that gag orders are usually on everyone else (witnesses, lawyers, etc) from talking to the press, precisely because direct gag orders on the press need to meet such high standards.

Again, it's a moot point, I'm just ranting because I'm mad on your behalf. What a horrible situation, I'm so sorry

Sandi_T6 karma

I have received nothing, so I'm going forward as if I have received nothing. :)

non_ducor_duco_4 karma

Thank you for your response! I have some experience in reaching out to elected officials out of my area and including other states; I am active in animal welfare causes and the organizations I am involved with encourage us to reach out to elected officials whenever there is a major cruelty case or legislation up for a vote. I have been told that it is perfectly legal to do so as long as you don’t misrepresent yourself in any way; i.e. claim to be a resident of their district when you’re not. To be clear, I am in no way qualified to give legal advice but this is my understanding per those that are. I think you are an excellent writer and if you sent letters to elected officials in the area your story may really resonate with someone. Maybe another idea would be to reach out to an attorney to help you pro bono? I wish you well on your journey and I hope that one day justice is finally served.

Sandi_T3 karma

So far, most attorneys there that I contact are highly disinterested. Even rude sometimes. I should try again, I suppose. I don't usually give up so easily.

I'll see if I can find out more. The people telling me that rather frightened me.

Thank you!

reagiechan17 karma

Hi, I’ve read through all of your comments, and I just want to preface this by saying I am so incredibly moved by your human spirit and persistence. I don’t know you personally, but you seem like an amazing human being.

I’m a fan of a certain popular podcast that covers many things, but is mainly concerned with true crime and covering brutal, dark injustices. I wanted to ask you if you would ever consider going on a podcast? Maybe to shed light on your situation, and call to attention how absolutely outrageous that sheriff’s department is treating your mother’s case. I have no affiliation with the runners of the aforementioned podcast, but they do have a great community on Reddit that is very supportive.

Sandi_T19 karma

Thank you!

I would be happy to be on podcasts. Anything to get my mother's story out and hopefully use it to get the laws changed in ID and protect other children. I believe that legacy would make my mother very proud.

Right now I have a standing agreement that includes only not working with other documentary makers. So News coverage, podcasts, etc. are okay.

whiteboypizza8 karma

I definitely second the podcast idea. I think it would be a great way to get your story out there and let these injustices you’ve suffered become known. You’ve been incredibly strong throughout your life and your story definitely deserve to be told, and you deserve to be listened to.

Sandi_T13 karma

There is a podcast right now. However, the more, the faster the word can spread, I think.

Here's the podcast, it's Thin Air Podcast, and it was instrumental in getting some things moving, I'm almost certain:

blinkOneEightyBewb4 karma

Try and contact Joe Rogan. Bet he'd be interested in talking to you respectfully.

Sandi_T3 karma

I'm confused. He's a boxer, yeah? Or something (clearly I follow sports closely. :P ).

blinkOneEightyBewb7 karma

Well he’s an MMA commentator as one job but also has one of the largest podcasts on the internet. Check out the Joe Rogan Experience on YouTube. It has near 1200 episodes now I think. Joe brings on all different kinds of people and just talks with them in a long form discussion, usually about very deep topics. The purpose of the whole show is to just learn more about the human experience and give people the chance to tell their stories. Might be exactly what you need if you’re trying to get your message out for help with the sheriffs dept and after reading your AMA I’m sure there an audience out there that can appreciate and/or benefit from your mental health experience and such.

Good luck with all your future endeavors, I wish you the best. :)

Sandi_T8 karma

Thank you, I'll see if I can get in connection with him; after I watch a couple of his episodes, lol. Just want to feel sure I wouldn't be volunteering to be a punching bag. I'm not gonna lie, I'm a little scared of that. I want to be super strong and have nice thick skin, but... you know what they say about wishing in one hand. :D

I appreciate it, I'll reach out. Couldn't hurt!

blinkOneEightyBewb3 karma

The last thing I’d expect is that you’d be a punching bag. I’m sure you’d be interviewed respectfully and honestly. Would never have mentioned it to you had I thought otherwise. Good luck!

Sandi_T2 karma

Thank you :)

cyathea15 karma

I'm trying to imagine what a butcher's pit inside (or outside) a house would look like and completely failing. Do you mind you explain more, if it is not too upsetting?

Sandi_T24 karma

It's a pit in the floor. A hook hangs from the ceiling above it. The animal is suspended from it, head down. They slice the throat and catch the blood in buckets, which one assumes they get rid of later or use in cooking (who knows with those people).

The floor in the area surrounding it was basically wooden slats, with 'slabs' (dunno what to call 'loose') linoleum around it.

They would butcher the animal, and what bones they didn't eat, would be boiled for stock and then thrown into the big hole in the dirt. There was no floor over the pit, just around the pit.

cyathea8 karma

In the livingroom, eek! Is the climate so dry things don't rot? I also wondered that about the buried shirt fabric still having the color recognisable.

Sandi_T17 karma

The soil is very conducive to preservation, yet not of DNA, apparently.

That being said... the house had an odor. Not a pretty one.

cyathea7 karma

Does that cause you problems when you meet a related smell?

Sandi_T35 karma

Interestingly, although there were a lot of terrible smells that went into that one permeating odor... the only one that triggers me is the actual smell of rotting flesh, or the smell of alcohol on a person. My sense of smell is exceptional, yet very, very few smells bother me at all.

I am, for example, pretty indifferent to body odor or farts (even skunks don't bother me until it becomes very strong), except if the person drinks alcohol. That alcohol smell on a person makes me nauseated and frightened, even to this day.

Lizaderp14 karma

What do you do for money?

Sandi_T47 karma

I work as a machinist. I also like to write novels on my own time. :)

tyrandan27 karma

I hate I missed this earlier, but what kinds of novels do you write?

Sandi_T21 karma

Romance. :P

Cockwombles12 karma

What a terrible and fascinating story, my heart really goes out to you. Thanks for doing the AMA.

Is there anything random people on the internet can do to help you, either get justice, publicity, or help you achieve piece of mind?

Sandi_T53 karma

I am hoping that people will begin to put social pressure on Idaho to change their state laws regarding Sheriffs. Write letters, speak up on their social media... get the word out about what people in ID are living with, which is terrible.

If someone murdered your family, you came home to your children or parents or whomever dead in their blood-bathed beds, who would you want to call? Your local grocer? How about the crop duster? Or maybe the garbage collector--he's a nice man!

No. You bloody well want a COP.

But wait... if your 13 year old daughter is raped, do you want to call a pedophile to come to your house to interrogate her? Do you want a documented sex offender to be the one driving her to the hospital for her exam?

Don't we all think that state laws should include NO CRIMINAL RECORD along with HAVE A POLICE BACKGROUND in the person who is sovereign over an entire county?? Aren't these basic no-brainers?

I think it's past time that the world as a whole turns their eyes upon Idaho and says, "Excuse us very much, you did WHAT?!" over the fact that they STRUCK DOWN the resolution that Sheriffs can no longer be felons...

If you live in ID, your sheriff could be a felon. There's no background check, so you might not even know about it. That is blatantly egregious. Outrageous.

I want the world to become outraged. I don't want Sheriffs turning a blind eye to things like what happened to me because THEY ARE AFRAID of the criminal.

Never again.

snowwhitenoir12 karma

I’m not sure if all of your siblings were foster or not, but either way, how is your relationship with each of them now? Also, how have any of your siblings lives played out?

Sandi_T29 karma

One of them was my half-brother. We do not have, and have not had, a relationship in decades. He hated me from the moment he learned that it was my existence which kept him from being with his father instead of the Rogerses. Among other things. It's fine. He was a victim, too, and I hope that people will respect his strong desire to have nothing to do with any of this.

So far as I know... life has been difficult for us all.

Here is an "update" post on what I know of the foster kids:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/694iej/minor_update_marie_ann_watson_disappearance_1977/

SillyDillySwag10 karma

What was he like growing up?

Sandi_T49 karma

I know that's a common question, but I believe the answer has to be a LOT deeper than the too-general question.

Were there signs? Not to anyone outside the 'family'. He was a star athlete, he was charming, gracious, got good grades, was affable... popular. But again, that isn't as simple as it seems, either.

Dorothy (foster mother) considered and considers him to be her "golden boy". He was perfect. He just treated her constantly like he adored her, and as such, she kowtowed to his every whim or desire. He could literally do no wrong, because "he loved her".

To understand him, I think you need to understand Dorothy and Mike. Dorothy was sadistic. She is a monster. She tortured the children in that house. Ramon did, too... he was "helping with discipline". It was a perfect match, with the perfect tinder. Dorothy had a knack for finding "unwanted" children. State kids that couldn't be placed... and wouldn't be (and weren't) missed.

Mike had an intention to "mold" the boys into "strong men". In order to do this, he would give them pets each time animals were born. They had to raise the pet, love the pet, care for the pet... and then kill them. "A man must be able to do whatever it takes to protect his family. If you cannot kill this animal, you are weak and not a man."

To be clear, everyone knew there was something horribly wrong in that house. Yet in their view, Ramon had risen above it. He, like Mike and Dorothy, however; denied any such things ever happened. He made friends, spent time with them... but they were not welcome at our house. A few times, some of them would come over, and if Mike were there, he would rage. They rarely returned, because the entire atmosphere of the place was unnatural.

As I mentioned in another reply, they had an open slaughter pit inside the livingroom of our home. When the investigation happened in 1996, they dug up huge black trash bags of bones, including a monkey skull and other exotic animals.

I knew nothing else, as I was only 3 when I arrived, but looking back, we lived in abject squalor except for Ramon, and to a lesser degree, a couple of the other foster brothers.

Most of us were savagely abused, and despite all evidence to the contrary (there are photos), he continues to deny that anything less than paradise ever existed in that home.

Also, in recent months, I have heard many other tales about him. Things he said, things he did, things he had... and they are pretty chilling in light of his convictions.

sarcasmsfree14 karma

What other things? Did you hear about him?

Sandi_T51 karma

He kept a book of photos of nude girls in his car and would show them to girls he picked up, be they hitchhiking, etc. He called the girls in the book his "girlfriends". As far as I know, they were not dead girls, just a bunch of girls he had persuaded to get naked and let him take their photos...

He claimed he and a couple of his friends killed and ate girls they lured out into the woods for a bonfire. He was stationed in a small island country and it was "prime pickings" because the US was in control there and nobody could stop them or even protest against it.

He told someone that they (Mike, Dorothy, and he) had actually eaten Marie when they killed her, and fed part of her to us. He seemed to find it particularly hilarious "to eat your own mother, hahahaha!" So whether they did that or not, the idea of it held great appeal to him. The person thought it was creepy at the time, but never considered it might actually be true. BTW, I do not eat ham even to this day. I am violently, overwhelmingly horrified by it... I see it as cannibalism. I know that, the year my mother was eaten by the pigs, they made them into ham, and have always seen it as cannibalism because of that--or maybe because they DID tell me it was my mother (whether it was or not, it's equally horrifying; especially since I KNEW she was dead).

Weird but normal for that household is that he liked to eat bones. He would be visiting at someone else's home and they'd have ribs or chicken or something... and he would sit there after everyone finished and eat the bones.

greyest10 karma

I'm sorry for what you've been through and are going through now. You're a good writer from what I can tell, though--what sparked your interest in writing? What kinds of stories do you think are missing from the world that people need to read more? What's your favorite book?

Sandi_T29 karma

I don't know what made me like writing. I think it's because I became interested in language and English early on because I had to find a way to overcome my speech impediment on my own.

My grandmother, after she got us, started trying to teach my brother to read and to love reading by reading to us, but stopping at the climax of the book. She allowed me, despite me being "retarded" to sit in on the sessions...

Her technique failed on him, but it worked on me, lol. Then my youngest aunt (sister by adoption) took up reading her books for me. Eventually, after a number of sundry other books, she arrived at Ann McCaffrey's Pern series. I was enthralled, though of course, dragons are slightly less cool than horses. Nevertheless, they were telepathic dragons, so I coped.

I believe the world needs more stories about people coming to see and understand "THE OTHER" as a beautiful, wonderful, worthwhile being in their own right. Maybe we would all benefit from lessons on caring first for the other person's humanity and feelings, then their circumstances etc.

My favorite book is a self-help book called The Sedona Method.

greyest7 karma

That's a beautiful answer; thank you for sharing your viewpoints and reading memories.

Sandi_T9 karma

Thank you for your question. :)

Cursed60Car9 karma

Do you struggle with PTSD?

Sandi_T27 karma

Of course. I probably always will. Nightmares, flashbacks... I click all the boxes and a few they haven't invented yet.

DeathbyFriedChicken7 karma

[removed]

Sandi_T18 karma

Top secret, my friend, sorry.

SeekingRest20197 karma

I can hardly believe what you have gone through, and the residual effects of it even now. It's disheartening that even a single person has to go through what you've gone through.

Is there any advice or insight you have for people? I know it's a general and broad question, but I was just curious if you had anything to answer from the perspective of life you have experienced.

Sandi_T71 karma

Probably the last advice anyone would ever expect...

If you are in pain, forgive yourself. If you are angry at someone else, forgive yourself. If you are depressed or suicidal, forgive yourself. If I could get any single message across to the world at large, it would be this profound, basic one... forgive yourself.

When someone sits down with me and says that they cannot forgive someone who harmed them, I wait and listen, and eventually things start coming out that tell the true story of whom they cannot forgive... "I should have known better. I should never have trusted them. I should have fought harder."

Now, here's the thing; I don't agree that these are reasonable reasons to feel guilt. To the contrary! In fact, I think that they are rather absurd. Yet the problem is this; it feels real to that person. The guilt and shame are real and huge. When I first bring this up, the victim nearly always immediately protests, "But I was a victim, I didn't do anything wrong!" and my answer is, "I know that, you know that... but what are your feelings saying? I'll tell you what I heard them saying..." And I repeat the things they said about trying harder, etc.

It doesn't matter if the guilt is RIGHT or not, it matters that it's THERE. Guilt is a soul-devouring emotion. Literally, factually life destroying. People kill themselves because "I can't do anything right, I'm not good enough, I have hurt people, I can't keep a relationship". The constant mental barrage of self-hatred literally can kill people.

And interestingly enough, it's often victims who experience it the worst of anyone.

That being said, would I offer the same advice to perpetrators? Don't they deserve their guilt?

I would offer the same advice, but even more to perpetrators, provided they aren't narcissists or psychopaths (who do not experience guilt anyway, so the advice would be incomprehensible to them anyway).

You see, guilt makes us behave badly. I always hear, "if I feel guilty, I won't do it again!" but does this hold up in reality? It doesn't. A man gets drunk, hits his wife... two weeks later he does it again. He feels more and more guilt with each passing day, so why isn't he stopping? We put all kinds of reasons on this, but you know why the 12 step programs work? Because they teach making amends, which allows the alcoholic to at last forgive him/herself! It's the self forgiveness that ends the addiction--the addiction is actually linked to the guilt!

If a person has a rage problem, I can always find the place where they hate themselves. If they forgave themselves, the rage problem would go away. Naturally, easily, barely with any notice at all. No trying, no struggling... because anger comes from pain. Always.

Want to stop hurting the people you love? Then forgive yourself--whether you deserve it or not. Even if you don't deserve it, your loved ones deserve it. The world at large deserves better than to be your proxy for beating yourself up.

Self forgiveness would solve nearly every human problem on this planet.

Ohhellopickles10 karma

THIS should be higher up!!! This hit my heart. This is relatable on all levels, big or small, we all know someone that beats themselves up a little or a lot. (Hint: It might be you!) Funny how much easier it is to forgive others (for smaller grievances) but you hesitate on or deny yourself? Because reasons? Thank you for this eye-opener. Or rather, heart-opener.

Thank you for this AMA. What you have experienced is unfathomable. It’s like trying to imagine the vastness of a billion. What you are sharing with the world now is important, valuable, valid and real. Thank you.

Musical artist Trevor Hall has a song called Forgive. He has a lot of other great songs with powerful lyrics. They help me a lot, I don’t know if they would help you or anyone reading, but I do recommend.

I pray for peace, comfort and more moments of purity in your life. Thank you for everything.

Sandi_T12 karma

I typically ask people, "When is the last time you said 'I forgive you' to yourself?" They look at me like I have three heads.

If we can start helping people see themselves with the same kind, loving eyes as they see others in a pickle... we'd transform the world.

theoriginalj7 karma

I want everyone to read this and take it to heart

Sandi_T5 karma

Me, too, my friend. Me, too. <3

SeekingRest20195 karma

Wow, I will take these words to heart, thank you.

Sandi_T15 karma

You're welcome. I honestly feel like victims are mishandled on this subject. Instead of being assisted in letting go of the guilt, counselors try to logic them out of it. And this doesn't work; "You shouldn't feel guilty" becomes, "Great, now I feel guilty for feeling guilty."

And by not acknowledging it, or saying "you're blaming the victim omg!!!!" we are doing great harm. We must not live according to what SHOULD be, we must live according to what's really going on.

If a person feels guilt, telling them they shouldn't, doesn't make it instantly poof. Even if the guilt is "wrong", it's there. That is the reality that must be addressed.

SeekingRest20193 karma

That's very interesting, and good to know since it's counter-intuitive. I already feel like I am applying that to myself.

And I regrettably think I am guilty of doing what you mentioned. If I see someone blaming themself, and it doesn't make sense to me, then I sometimes think that they are trying to play the victim, and I do go the logic-them-out-of-guilt method. I'll do my best not to handle it like that anymore.

Recently, I have struggled with some guilt, and for some reason telling myself I would have done it every time comforts me. I'll get into thinking about how I could have avoided something, how many rights I feel I did before succumbing to the wrong, and it will begin to eat away at me because I almost made the right choice. But then I tell myself, I would have done it every time. If the situation were the same. It is that precise situation that I behaved that way, and I proved it because it is what happened. I dunno why, but it helps. I'm not sure if that is guilt or regret or what, but it seems at least related. I have to see myself as everyone else, as someone who makes mistakes. As someone to forgive.

It makes me sad that you still suffer so much. That you have such terrible sleep and the fear you feel at small things and all the other things you listed. It doesn't seem fair at all. You had to go through something so traumatic. Why do you also have to live with such negative residual effects? I don't like that at all.

What kind of things have people done for you that you appreciated? And what kind of things might someone do thinking they are helping, but in reality it is only harmful? I'm curious about this in regards to long ago, more close to after the negative events happened, and in regards to right now in your life, not that you have to answer both, just anything you feel worth sharing.

Sandi_T9 karma

I sometimes feel very childish about it. "It's not fair" that I have to live with the constant pain and the results of what someone else did. I have learned to simply accept it. Resignation, perhaps. There are still times, though, when the resentment rears up and I have to find equilibrium again.

I think honestly that the longer a person has remained in my life, the more I have felt improved by them. So much misery, loss and pain, but the one factor that runs through my life all the way up until my daughter is that everyone, absolutely everyone, either left me or was not able to stay (death or circumstances beyond both of our control).

Many people have no idea what it's like to be X age and there's no one at all in your life that has known you more than a decade (or two, max). No one there who remembers anything about you.

I truly think that one of the kindest things society could so is to A. allow foster children touch. They NEED it. Human beings NEED touch. But there is so much terror of sexual abuse that foster children are stunted, shut off, closed away from all physical contact. Imagine living day in and day out without being allowed to touch anyone. It's torture. It's torture!

B. Help them have longevity in some way. For foster children, having mandatory photo albums that go with them everywhere should be a thing. It really should. Happy moments captured. Faces remembered. Connections cemented by being tangible even if only in photos. It should be a thing. Continuity should be one of, if not the highest priority in traumatized children. We thrive best in routine and in knowing that what we are attached to will be there tomorrow to the best possible way.

I know these seem silly to most people, but they are important. They only don't matter when you can take them for granted.

redditrange4 karma

This is beautiful Sandi, & I really needed to hear it. I hope that things will improve for you with the sheriff situation & I’ll keep a watch out if there’s anything I can do to help.

Sandi_T3 karma

I'm really glad. I hope you let it sink into your heart and heal you.

Thank you!

adrianakeehl2 karma

Higher up there you said something to the effect of wanting more out of your life. I'm currently recovering from an alcohol addiction so my thoughts may come out scrambled but I feel like... I feel like you have a way of thinking that could greatly influence the world and you have a way lf speaking that could greatly influence individuals to do the same. Reading about how terrible this case was handled and how poorly you were treated has really stuck with me. I will be doing everything in my power to aid in getting some improvement in regards to the system that failed you so badly. I have not felt a sense of purpose for so many years and because of the words you said above, I feel like I care about something again. I would like to thank you for your words, your thoughts, and your willingness to express them. I imagine you have impacted many people positively by being so open and that you as a person will continue to do so. Sending much love your way, Sandi.

Sandi_T1 karma

I don't think that there could be a greater honor in the world than to know that someone has found a feeling of meaning and purpose from hearing about my life, from 'meeting' me (as it were). You brought joyful tears to my eyes.

I believe that, after self-forgiveness, a sense of purpose is the second biggest mitigating factor in suicide, in addictions, in success... pretty much every area of life is made or broken based on the presence of a feeling of purpose--or lack of it.

Having chosen your purpose, and should you decide consciously to become obsessed with it, I know that we will one day see tremendous things from you. Our purpose in this life is not given to us, it is what we select. One of the great injustices of our modern society is the perpetuated belief that you "find" your "passion" (purpose) by finding something you're super good at and love doing.

I believe that you CHOOSE. Once you have decided on your purpose, all that remains is to decide to become obsessed with it and decide not to stop, no matter the opposition, no matter how insurmountable.

I decided long, long ago that I would become "so normal" that no one would know I have autism or dyslexia or chronic pain or (well, the list is long) simply upon meeting me and spending a little time with me, ever again. To me, that was like wishing to walk to Mars, and I knew I could never make it, but by all that is holy, I was going to try with everything in me.

I don't believe that your purpose in life will be easy, I don't believe it will necessarily be something you love doing so much that "you'll never work a day in your life" like so many tout these days.

I believe your purpose is something that you decide you will get back up for, no matter how many times the prize-fighter called Life KO's you. Something that you decide to believe in so strongly that it doesn't matter if you make it or not, you HAVE to try.

I don't believe I'll see the laws in Idaho changed in my lifetime. I have to try. I have to. Now that there is evidence and people will finally listen, I have to keep speaking about the injustices that led to my mother's horrible death and I have to be the voice of the children right now who are going through similar.

I am the one who decided I will keep grinding away at this issue, despite being called a liar my whole life, despite being terrified of how I will be ridiculed, despite having a deep-seated fear that I will be assassinated by friends of the accused... I am the one who decided.

And today, you get to make the same commitment to yourself, "I have to try, no matter what." You're not going to love it. Sometimes it's going to be terrifying. It will often be work. It's the sense of purpose, not a sense of "loving what you do" that will drag you forcibly out of bed early in the morning to start a new habit of productivity. It's the sense of purpose, self-given purpose, which will leave you standing in the ashes of defeat and responding to the question of what you'll do now with, "I'll start from scratch, obviously."

If you take this chosen purpose of yours and, not even knowing where to start, decide that "I'll find a way come hell or high water," and you run with it, then every life YOU change is a gift to me. Every person YOU help is a legacy you share with me. Every heart you heal, however much, makes every second of my life worthwhile.

Every single person matters. Having been addicted, you likely feel the same thing that my mother did, and that I did... like one of "those people" who don't matter. You do matter. Take your newfound sense of purpose and let it drive you in recovery. "I will never touch the stuff again. I don't have time for that. I can't be distracted just now, I have too much to do in my fight to change the world, one child at a time/ one speech at a time/ one internet post at a time."

People make fun of people like me. "Crusaders" and "SJWs" and "mentally ill" and "attention whores". What I have that they don't understand isn't some special perseverence (that's a practiced skill, NOT an innate trait), not special focus (another SKILL, not innate, meaning it can be practiced and thus developed), none of that. It's a sense of overwhelming purpose.

I have always told myself that I went through what I did for a reason. I always thought until a few years ago that the 'reason' (purpose) would be imposed upon me by some higher power.

Then I realized I was wasting my life waiting for a sense of purpose, a direction. So instead, I chose one. From that arises everything else.

It isn't that you suddenly care about something again, it's that you have chosen, on a subtle level, your purpose. You have chosen the meaning YOU will give your life.

Every change I make on this world is a legacy I share with my mother. It is a legacy I share with every person who has been kind to me, no matter how briefly. The man who fed me. The private investigator who rescued me. The cop who is investigating.

Every positive change I make is my gift to them. Every positive change you make, every instant in which you use this sense of purpose to make the decision to abstain, is your gift to me.

Every person you help, when they help someone else, it is their gift to YOU.

May your gifts in life grow exponentially, my friend.

holdonmagnolia122 karma

You have a tremendous voice, Sandi, and I am definitely not the only person who feels blessed (for lack of a better word) to have stumbled on this AMA. Some may find your work while searching for lurid details, but many more are going to find themselves here, or wherever your words land next, because there is a real power in them. I'm not a survivor of abuse or an addict, but I've found intense meaning and hope in what you have shared, and I just want you to know (I'm sure you already do) that you are doing something meaningful here. Thank you, and I hope you and your daughter have many moments of deserved peace and beauty.

Sandi_T2 karma

Thank you so much. I really want to see people on a large scale finding happiness, a sense of purpose. I want people who may not feel like they can be successful to look at me and think, "if a person with that much against her can drag herself up and give people hope, then I sure as heck can do it!"

I don't mind being "the (wo)man with no feet" to the people with them if it means they will take heart and gain a new perpsective on themselves and their ability to overcome.

No matter the pain, whether it's as immense as mine or as 'small' as feeling inadequate; all pain hurts. It's all an obstacle in our way and we can all help each other over it.

I wish I could do more than inspire people. I daydeam of changing lives for the good, irrevocably turning people onto their path of choosing their purpose and committing to it with their entire being.

I'm humble like that. :D

mop_sauce2 karma

This helped me. Sort of. It's getting over the mental block that I deserve it that makes it so hard.

Sandi_T4 karma

Again, whether you deserve it or not, everyone in your life around you deserves better than what you are able to give them until you have forgiven yourself.

Holding onto self-hatred is actually a form of arrogance, also. It basically puts your need to feel like "a good person" who has "proper" guilt ahead of the emotional (and in some cases even physical) security of the people around you. It's wanting to be able to 'be bad' while feeling right. "See how moral I am, I feel GUILT! I punish myself!"

Your personal deservingness really doesn't matter. The same as if a small child came to you and said, "I am a bad person, I took my friend's candy," and you would not say, "Then you shall deserve LIFELONG PUNISHMENT!" neither do YOU deserve lifelong punishment for what you did. Just as importantly, neither do the people you love deserve to be part of your self punishment.

For example, to punish yourself, you might sabotage relationships. The problem is, you're not alone in that relationship; so you are not the only one being punished.

The guilt often actually feels good because it gives a sense of superiority and righteousness. But that's an illusion. Guilt makes us behave worse, never better.

Stop thinking you have a right to hold onto your guilt no matter how much it harms others. I would argue that you don't have that right. :P

(Now, please understand that this is a dry and clinical analysis. There is absolutely NO judgment in my feelings. I do not think you are a bad person, and I am not trying to make you feel worse. I want you to be able to examine this honestly, and we cannot do that if I lie or deny. Consider this to be nothing more or less than information. Because my words are not ones that we are socially supposed to say, such as "this is arrogance", doesn't mean I feel negative judgment about them. It's just what we're dealing with. I'm using honest and blunt language so that you have a clear grasp. It's not meant to be painful, but rather freeing.)

TMcFly6 karma

Has this story been on any shows? I watch a lot of Dateline and this would be a good topic?

Sandi_T17 karma

It has not. It has been mostly ignored. I've been hung up on, ignored, cut off while speaking...

Honestly, I think if I were young and pretty, I could get the attention for my mother's case. It pains me that I even think that way; pains me more because it's almost certainly true.

There is a podcast on it now, though. Can find it in the links thread in her subreddit. r/MarieAnnWatson

Sandi_T6 karma

To make it a little more clear about the bones:

In 1996, there were bones dug up from under the foundation where the house used to be in Emmett. I saw my mother being dismembered with an electric saw. I also said that she was wearing a teal-blue shirt when she died. I said that they (the people dismembering her) had freaked out when a car started coming up the road, and that part of her had been put into the new butcher pit they had been digging when it happened (which had been immediately covered over, btw). In 1996, they found a sawed-off bone with a teal-blue shirt wrapped around it.

The tests of the time were inconclusive if it was human or animal DNA.

While it's entirely possible these are NOT her bones or her shirt... I want it tested. It was where I said it was. The method of the bone was the way I said it was. The color of the shirt what I said it was... So for the love of all that's holy, retest the god-damned bone and shirt!

KickAssMiles5 karma

What's cooler than being cool?

Sandi_T10 karma

Being old-school cool.

Raiden115X5 karma

Do you believe in vigilante justice?

Sandi_T17 karma

That's actually a hard question to answer. The short answer is absolutely no. Everything in me rejects it... except...

The law has failed me so many times that I am forced to ask myself the question, "Then now what?"

It's not an easy question and it sits hard and heavy on me. I believe on every level that vigilante justice is wrong (in part because, as I said, even if my mother DID deserve to die as a rare few claim, I still did not deserve to witness it). On the other hand, when law enforcement fails, people suffer, people die... I know this first hand.

So how can I answer such a question when reality is so far, far from what I truly believe is right and moral?

HookersForDahl20175 karma

Will you bury the bones beneath the crypts of Winterfell?

Sandi_T19 karma

I will not. I will feed them to Mi'Lady's dragons!

Old_House4 karma

Aside from sadness, what was the strongest emotion that you felt relating to this over the years? Sorry if this question makes you uncomfortable

Sandi_T16 karma

I'm so sorry, I accidentally overlooked this question. I definitely did not ignore it.

I think the sense of pervasive disconnect from reality. I lived in a world of darkness, pain, sorrow, misery, self-hatred, and fear. Everyone around me was thinking about boys and makeup and girls and going to the pizza place...

I was barely able to communicate, I didn't understand anyone around me. I was strange, like an insect under a microscope. People like to day "there is no such thing as normal," but believe me... there really is. Only normal people say this.

breadpunk4 karma

How has this affected the rest of your life?

Sandi_T11 karma

Please see my response here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/anxyts/iama_foster_sister_to_a_serial_killer_witness_to/efwxt4c

Sorry, but it's a long response and too much to retype. Please feel free to ask me anything further if any of it is unclear. :)

pmMEur_female-ORGASM4 karma

I am sorry that you went through (and are still dealing) with this. I wish you had just one person growing up that cared for you. I am sorry that society has failed you. I hope and pray you get everything you want in life from here on out.

As for a question, have you considered posting in /r/legaladvice to see if there’s anything you can do?

Sandi_T2 karma

I did and their suggestion what that I MIGHT have luck with a civil suit, but only if I could get anyone to take the case, which they saw as unlikely. :(

pmMEur_female-ORGASM2 karma

Gosh, I’m so sorry :(

Sandi_T1 karma

Indeed. Maybe when I make my millions. Lawyers will do anything for millions, right? :P

pmMEur_female-ORGASM2 karma

Exactly :) I hope you do make millions. If there’s anything I can do to help, please let me know

Sandi_T2 karma

I really appreciate it, thank you kindly!

L_V_Zee3 karma

When your brother had escaped and reached the safety of the Sheriff's dept, was he brutally beaten by the people in the Sheriff's dept? Also was this brother Ramon Rogers or another brother?

Sandi_T22 karma

My half-brother and I are not related to any of the other foster children.

He was not beaten by the Sheriffs, he had been brutally beaten by the Rogerses, and arrived there bloody and bruised, whipped and in terrible pain. They took him back to be "punished" for running away.

My half-brother is my actual blood sibling. It was him and me whom my mother was trying to regain custody of when she 'disappeared'.

The Sheriff's dept. knew perfectly well what was happening and simply did not care what "those people" got up to.

cyathea7 karma

Could that explain why they don't want the bones re-tested? You mentioned the initial investigation was incompetent too.

Sandi_T21 karma

I honestly question the whole department and their loyalties. How can I not? There are too many coincidences and too many times they looked the other way, too often that they did the exact wrong things.

Corrupt or incompetent, the end result is still sinister.

cyathea6 karma

I guess there will be many records of incidents and allegations they were provably aware of. And witnesses to their incompetence or worse, too many for them to cover up. A positive test on the bones would cause further scrutiny.
For that matter, the previous negative result might not be genuine.
Also they might be covering for the child welfare authorities who were supposed to be keeping tabs on you.

Sandi_T18 karma

Yeah. There is definitely something off there, and I wish people understood that incompetence is equally dangerous as outright corruption. But I'm not ruling out a combination.

I find that entire situation teeth-grinding. It's so blatantly wrong. So clearly immoral and unacceptable and yet Idaho continues to simply NOT CARE. Just as they did when I was being abused, just as they did when my mother was murdered right in their faces.

Nothing has changed!

venividiikarma3 karma

Hi, unfortunately I didn't see this until just now and I understand if you're done answering :)

I was wondering how your speech was in regards to the impediment. The way you write is so captivating (unfortunate subject matter, I'm sure your novels are amazing even without seeing them). To what extent if any you have trouble while speaking casually/without effort?

I've long dealt with suicidal thoughts and in a way this gives me hope that people are truly strong and that I can be that strong. I know you wouldn't want me to feel as if our negative thoughts were a competition of who had it worse based on your other comments, so I truly am just blown away how strong you are.

Have a good day! And the one after that too if you wouldn't mind

Sandi_T6 karma

The speech impediment itself is not noticeable to anyone. When I tell people, I sometimes have to prove it by showing them I still have it. My biggest issue is actually that I have a "disorder" that I've had since I could remember, where at times, the name of common objects escapes me. I have a lot of hesitations in my speech if I run up against an unexpected subject, so that can be very challenging.

My speech impediment is a very large torus palatinus. https://www.healthline.com/health/torus-palatinus

I pretty much overcame that totally on my own. I was told, "if you want to learn how to speak like other people, listen to the News and speak until you sound like them. Keep changing the way you move your mouth until you can repeat the same sounds." So I did. I would be out by myself on the farm, walking and playing, and I'd say the same words over and over again until they sounded correct. It took a very long time, probably because I had no help, but eventually the sound was so close to normal that people don't have any idea I have a speech impediment.

Unfortunately, that does not make it easy for me to speak. It's the mental effort required that makes it a chore to speak/ communicate. My mind works much faster than my fingers or my mouth, except when it "brain farts" and I need to search around for the name of a simple object such as a "spoon" for example.

One of the reasons I'm certain I have at least some brain damage from the repeated strangulations and 'dunkings' that Dorothy subjected me to. Or maybe it was when my mother tried to kill me in the womb, who knows.

plskickmyballs952 karma

Have you ever thought about confronting Dorothy?

Sandi_T1 karma

There is no way on Earth. I don't care if it would be cathartic or whatever... this is a woman with a documented history of attacking people publicly.

Hell no.

plskickmyballs952 karma

It really haunts me to know that she is still out there unpunished after what she did. I am really sorry. :/

Sandi_T2 karma

This has haunted me for my entire life. The helplessness and inability to do anything at all has always seemed the most insidious, worst part.

leonlummer2 karma

favourite soup?

bethevoid2 karma

Do you have any of your own kids? If so, how have your experiences shaped the way you've raised/treated them?

Sandi_T4 karma

Okay, so this is a long response, for which I apologize ahead of time.

I have had three full term pregnancies. The first one was a boy. I was poor and single at the time. While I was pregnant, I made the grave error of considering adoption. Now, depending on where people stand on adoption, the first reaction is likely, "how wonderful!". However, I view it quite differently.

When a young woman, especially poor or single, or otherwise vulnerable, says this magical word, "adoption professionals" come out of the woodwork. What do they do? Do they tell the young mother-to-be that she may find having a child to be a powerful, overwhelming incentive to be successful and get herself together?

No, they do not. In fact, what they do is to begin a subtle plan of manipulation of her already extremely keyed-up emotions. They prey. If, like me, she has been abused? Then it becomes very easy! These people say, "It's THE LOVING choice." While some think this is fantastic, what it really says is, "while that OTHER thing of being SELFISH is NOT LOVING." It is an unspoken elimination of the validity of choosing to parent.

Next, they begin the process of explaining, using carefully slanted statistics, how anyone who has been abused WILL BE an abuser, too. And the LOVING THING to do is to give the child a, you know, SAFE home where he won't be abused. Oh, now, of course, you won't MEAN to abuse him... it will just happen. You'll do what you learned, nothing else...

They then bring along statistics about how children raised by single mothers end up in jail. Well, maybe not ALL... but can you really take that chance?? Next, it's "you won't be able to party or enjoy life!" they say this as if I partied anyway, but they do it in a very subtle way that makes partying suddenly seem like something special you might be missing out on--everyone does it! Follow this up with "and men tend to steer clear of women with children."

Now, the problem for me? It all worked on me, but still I changed my mind, and for a time, I had my beautiful son with me. I felt better than I ever had before. I suddenly felt motivated. I felt alive. I wanted him to have such a wonderful life, and I just KNEW that I could find a way to give it to him. I started school, found a place to live... I was on fire for my boy. Parenting classes, everything I could think of to protect him from the possibilities of my past.

In the end, though, I got kicked out due to someone else's actions and I got myself once more in a terrible situation. For my son's sake, I won't explain it in detail, but suffice it to say that he was coerced from me by very malicious people who had a knack for finding vulnerable young women and getting "donations" for their "charity" by "assisting" adopters in finding "willing" young mothers who have taken care with their eating and are 'clean', etc.

When I lost him (he was 6 months old) by "willingly relinquishing him" and finally escaped from the "discipleship program for unwed mothers", I never recovered from the loss. To this day, the loss of my son (and my first daughter, coming up) are the things that have been the single most devastating and soul-destroying events of my life. Before that, I had come to believe that, "you can hurt my body, you can hurt my mind, but you cannot hurt my soul."

I should not have challenged life in such a way, not with my track record. :(

I have contacted him and he has shown zero interest in contact, so I have not kept on him.

o~0~o

My second child died not long after birth. Her lungs had looked fine on ultrasound, but after birth they found out that the tissue in them was not capable of processing air. She gasped her last breaths in my arms, dying slowly over two hours.

o~0~o

With my daughter now, once more, she is "the wind beneath my wings". Once more I feel like I have a reason to focus on bettering my life. Once more, I went to parenting classes. I took courses.

Some of things that I see as directly linked to my experiences that I have faced this time are:

  • When she was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, I spent every second with her in the hospital. I slept and ate there, despite lying on the impossibly hard hospital chairs to sleep. I know most parents are fine with their child being at the hospital, but I could not STAND for her to be alone at the hospital.
  • At birth, I wouldn't let her out of my sight until I had found and memorized a couple of her birthmarks. I had an irrational fear of her being switched at birth and growing up with people who would abuse her.
  • I went to parenting classes and read every parenting book I could find through pregnancy and over the early years. I still read parenting books several times per year.
  • I went through a Conspiracy Theorist stage. I still recognize some things as being accurate, but in general, I am not a Conspiracy Theorist anymore.
  • I micromanage, particularly because of her Type 1 Diabetes (T1D) condition.
  • I check on her multiple times every night while she's with me. I fear her dying to T1D (which is factually a possibility: according to the Mayo Clinic and the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation, 1 in 20 children with T1D die of low blood sugar; often at night)
  • I sometimes lose my temper with her not because I am angry, but because I am afraid for her. I try to control her in order to "keep her safe". I work hard to stop doing this, which results in:
  • I feel I am often too lax with her about certain things because I really, really want her to have a happy childhood. Like I obsessively want her to.
  • I want her to learn all the things I never got the chance to, and as such, she has been ice skating, snow shoeing, water skiing, indoor mountain climbing, has had parties with her friends (never had one, myself). I learned how to make fondant cakes so she could have fancy cakes for her birthdays...
  • I let her have many more sleepovers than might be very healthy (something, again, that I never got, ever).
  • I made a point to talk to her early, often, clearly, and positively about both sex and her period, so that she wouldn't have the same terror that I did when I had my first one.
  • I have tried to find ways to explain about why I personally believe that promiscuity is unhealthy, while struggling to find a way to make it not demonizing of her if she makes choices later to be "sexually free".
  • I often do things with her, such as play games I don't enjoy, just for quality time purposes. I try to be her friend when i can, because I HATE all the times I must punish her. I just hate it.
  • When we had to put our 20 year old kitty to sleep, I didn't listen to the 'experts' who say not to take them for it. I asked her what SHE wanted. My beloved dog was put down without my knowledge and ever since I have hated that she died cold and alone on a hard metal slab, without my love and comfort to see her across.

I'm sure there are more, which I might think of later. That's about what I have in me to write up at the moment. Bittersweet topic.

Sandi_T3 karma

I do. This is a very long and arduous question that I'll have to revisit this evening when I have more time. Sorry for the delay.

dissenter_the_dragon1 karma

Do you smoke weed?

Sandi_T20 karma

I am too desperately terrified of ever becoming addicted to anything, so I abstain from all forms of drugs, including alcohol. I extremely rarely take pain medication, even though I have extreme chronic pain.

Drugs are far too dangerous for me. Seductive.

dissenter_the_dragon1 karma

Yeah, that's true. You ever wonder what kind of relief they could bring to you and your life? I respect you not wanting yo take the risk. Tough decision.

Sandi_T18 karma

I think it would be way too temporary and far too seductive. I feel deeply certain I would become an addict and destroy myself. The reprieve, however temporary, would be more than I could come back from with my sanity. As painful as the pain is... it would be almost impossible to know something else and then come back again to being me.

Better to say me. Besides, I HATE being out of control for even a moment. When I want the 'high' to end, I cannot control that. Sounds risky. :P