IamA Kona Coffee Farmer. I used to be a lawyer until I quit and bought a Coffee Farm - AMA!

Assuming that you took a pay cut, at least at the beginning, can you tell us what makes it worth it?

Thanks.

Yes we both took a huge paycut and we will probably never replace that with farming. But what were we really working for in Chicago? We were saving to buy a house (which we now have) and working until we could take our next vacation to a place like Hawaii (where we now live). It's not that we have EVERYTHING we could want (I would LOVE a pool), but I am a lot more fulfilled than I was in Chicago.

This. This is what most people need to understand about life. Get to where you "want to be" in life and then spend as much time doing the things you love with the people you cherish. There is no point chasing money indefinitely. That's the secret.

This is why I hate the STEM and engineering circle jerk on Reddit.

I don't WANT to be any of those things. I don't WANT to just do them because they pay good. I don't want to waste half my life spending half my daytime hours at a place I may not necessarily like just so I can chase that paycheque.

I want to spend my life doing things I like in places I want to be around people I like. Cause I don't get a do over once I die, and you can't take money to the grave.

Yeah exactly. A lot of the people doing the careers you're talking about are not on reddit because they are outside working, away from the computer.

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I lived right by the United Center for awhile (not the best neighborhood but what I could afford at the time) and then when I moved in with my now-husband we lived in Old Town. And yeah Chicago really is the best. I miss it all the time.

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Dude I know. We just rented but definitely could not afford to buy there.

What kind of reactions did you get from friends and family? Any notable stories?

How many people work your farm? Do you have a photogenic burro?

Have you considered some sort of rental accommodation on site? Have you had an influx of friends and family wanting to visit?

What kind of reactions did you get

A lot of surprise and some envy. Most people were really supportive and congratulated us for making the change. Our immediate families were probably the most worried because they didn't want us to lose all of our savings doing something stupid.

How many people work your farm?

My husband and I are the only full time employees but we do have a couple of work traders who work about 10 hours a week in exchange for living in our employee housing (individual rooms but with a shared bathroom and kitchen).

Do you have a photogenic burro?

I wish! I am dying to get a donkey because they are so cute. But my husband says it would be a waste of money. We do have some really cute goats though.

Have you considered some sort of rental accommodation on site? Have you had an influx of friends and family wanting to visit?

No Air BnB set up or anything like that but we do have an area where pickers can rent during the picking season. And yes tons of friends and family have come to visit. We love having visitors because our island is pretty rural and it can be nice to break things up.

My family vacationed out there a few times. Lovely space. We spoke with another Coffee farmer who mentioned this work trade concept, and my daughter was intrigued. Where can we find out more what other places offer similar circumstance on the islands? Is there a posting forum?

Yeah check out WwoofUSA and Wwoofhawaii. That's where we originally got people. The work traders we have now are from just posting on facebook - they are much more long term people though and are all living here indefinitely and not just for a couple weeks/months.

Looking for any more work traders? ;)

Lol you never know! Not right now but I post on Facebook and instagram usually when positions open. We are Sunshowercoffee on Facebook and Sunshowerfarms on instagram.

Mahalo for the AMA

Which varieties do you grow?

What kind of roaster are you using?

Do you plan to offer single varieties or your peaberry solo in the future?

Do you grow any 'Awa?

Which varieties do you grow?

We grow almost all Arabica (Kona Typica specifically). We have about 10 trees of a hybrid called Kona Passion as a test and we may plant more of those because they are turing out great.

What kind of roaster are you using?

I roast on a Sonofresco. It's a really nice roaster for small batches.

Do you plan to offer single varieties or your peaberry solo in the future?

Yes! I actually just got that graded out a couple weeks ago for the first time so we now have about 50lbs of it that we can sell this year. I am just waiting for the peaberry stamp to come in the mail that I ordered for our labels and then it will be added to the website for purchase!

Do you grow any 'Awa?

No we don't, mostly because even though the effects are cool I think it tastes like mud.

What is 'Awa, and could you explain what the cool effects OP mentioned are?

I'm not OP but I may be able to answer if OP doesn't. 'Awa (or Kava) has kava lactones that affect your central nervous system and basically calm you down. It is used in home treatments by people suffering from hyperactivity disorders or sleep disorders (it is said to make depression worse). Kava can be dangerous to the liver and is recommended that you do not consume it on a regular basis. Kava can impede your ability to function normally (if a substantial amount is consumed). You can pick up Kava at some supermarkets and health food stores as it is not off the market in the USA (under the assumption you are from the USA), although Kava or 'Awa is not able to be sold in Canada and some countries in Europe.

Kava has been linked to some deaths.

Source: Biology Major that drinks Kava tea on occasion.

Thanks! There's a Kava Bar in town that I have been to and tried it there. There's also a guy who sells it out of his truck in waterbottles (I know that sounds sketchy but its normal for Hawaii) and I have had it once that way too. Both times I have had to choke it down because it truly tastes like a mud puddle. Other people love it, but it's not for me.

I hope this isn't prying too much, but what did it take for you to get started? I've always had a dream to do something similar. Was it very risky? Did you need loans etc, or start with savings? (Trying to figure out what it would take to start myself).

We started with a pretty sizable amount of savings but we did get a mortgage (the mortgage process is tricky with a farm but do-able especially because there are farm service agencies to help you).

If you are wanting to come to Hawaii, it is much cheaper to buy a leasehold than a fee simple property. You are supposed to commercially farm your leasehold though so unless you plan to do that, I wouldn't consider one.

If you want to start a farm yourself, I would recommend visiting the place you want to farm (if that is HI, then come here) and meet with local farmers! The farm bureau in the area you are looking at should have some great resources also the Farm Service Agency is great (at least in Hawaii) and has all the info on grants and special loans for beginning farmers.

Also, idk if you are a woman or a minority, but there are even better FSA loans if you are. Good luck!

My wife and I are constantly dreaming of moving to hawaii and growing our own food, and living simpler. We will actually be on the big island at the end of april. Part of our trip will be spent right up the hill from two step (which I know is coffee country) Could I send you a PM and maybe set up a time where we could come check out your operation? I would love to pick your brain about leasehold land, growing seasons, etc.

Yes absolutely! We're just up the hill from there. Shoot me a PM or feel free to email me (contact info is on our site).

answer the money question for fark's sake. break it down. farm price. equipment, etc. startup costs. monthly expenses. ballpark. no one's judging, get over it. please. jeebus why is everyone so avoidant of money questions.

Okay our farm price was slightly over a million. However that included a house and barn, catchment tanks and all 20 acres was fenced. So the land itself I would guess would have been around 500k. We own it in fee simple which makes it a lot more expensive than leasehold land.

Startup costs were high. We didn't buy that much equipment but the trees were approx $10 each and we have over 3000 (8 acres planted). We have a tractor now but that has a payment plan. One of the biggest costs of startup was grubbing the land (bulldozing the existing grasses and shrubs - we left the trees) which IIRC was around 5k/acre. We also had to install a ton of erosion controls, plant a cover crop, get all our permits in order etc. Startup costs were certainly over 6 figures.

Thank you! Very informative.

Interesting you managed to own the land outright versus the usual 30 year leaseholds in the area. Oftentimes there are chunks of land that require Hawaiian ethnicity to own the land or get the leasehold. Mind shedding light on what you had to do to own the land outright versus the usual leasehold? Just ask and pay?

Land here is already set aside as being "leashold" land or fee simple land. The land we wanted was already listed as fee simple in the regular MLS. We didn't do anything special just bought it like anyone would through a realtor.

Have you guys had any difficulties being accepted by locals?

I think there is a lot of racism towards outsiders in Hawaii but on our island at least that is focused on the other side of the island (Hilo side). But also, I think a lot of that centers on dislike of snowbirds who drive up housing costs and do not even contribute to our economy 6 months out of the year. I can tell you it is really hard for farmers/restaurants etc. to make money during the summer which is off-season. Personally I haven't experienced many problems like that but also I try to be respectful of locals, of the land and supportive of "local" issues like schooling etc even though we don't have any kids.

Neeeeaaaaat!

Do you grow other foods for yourself in the farm or just the coffee?

Is this kind of a retirement fun thing for you guys, or an active and goal-oriented moneymaking thing?

Do you sell your coffee as a single sourced bean product or is it combined with other farms' beans for sale?

I haven't looked at the website yet, not sure if it might answer that last question...

Do you grow other foods for yourself in the farm or just the coffee?

Yes we grow tons of other food - mostly vegetables but we raise goats for milk and meat, chickens for eggs and meat and sometimes trap wild boar that is in the coffee field for meat.

Is this kind of a retirement fun thing for you guys, or an active and goal-oriented moneymaking thing?

Haha not at all a retirement thing. I am only 30! We are trying to make a living doing this but we are still fairly new and our coffee isn't quite old enough to be producing enough for us to turn a profit just on that. We also do events, have a CSA and run a local homebrew supply shop out of our farm to suppliment our income from the coffee.

Do you sell your coffee as a single sourced bean product or is it combined with other farms' beans for sale?

We only sell coffee from our farm. We do sell green to a couple roasters who roast it and sell it under their label, but the majority of our coffee we sell ourselves under our label.

We only sell coffee from our farm. We do sell green to a couple roasters who roast it and sell it under their label, but the majority of our coffee we sell ourselves under our label.

name, website, paypal info and a redditor's coupon?

Second this please! I work for a roastery and would love to sample some green!

Reply to THEIR comment, not mine, or they won't see it.

Usually good advice but I am just reading through the thread to make sure I don't miss anyone.

Yeah PM me with your email and I will send you all the info and pricing for our green!

Website is www.Sunshowercoffee.com and coupon up in the top - 15% off with code "reddit."

Greetings from Oahu! My wife and i are big coffee drinkers so my question is how much coffee do you and your husband drink on a daily basis? Also is it possible for you to grow cocoa beans and make your own chocolate? Theres alot of little stores here that get there cocoa beans from the big island.

Aloha! We drink about 2 cups a day each. A morning cup and and afternoon cup after we come in from working outside. I actually drank a lot more when I was a lawyer - maybe that isnt surprising lol.

We can sooorta grow cacao. We are at a pretty high elevation for it, but I do know there are other farms at our elevation growing it. I would love to start growing some but if we did I doubt we would even sell it - we probably would just try to process it and eat it ourselves. The processing is really similar to coffee.

I took a tour of a coffee farm in Kona a while ago. It was great. While there, I ate a ripe coffee cherry off the tree. It was delicious! Why isn't the meat of the cherry used for anything?

There are a few reasons. The skins are pretty thick (like much thicker than a grape) and that is pretty unappealing. Also they (obviously) have a seed and coffee farmers work hard to make the seeds as big as possible and most people I know won't even buy grapes with seeds because they are annoying to spit. They also only last about 24 hours before they start to rot unless refrigerated which makes transportation hard. Finally, because of regulations with shipping fruit out of Hawaii, coffee cherry has too much potential for new bugs to get to the mainland (especially fruit flies) for them to be sent anywhere for sale.

Some people do eat them here - I usually will eat a couple when I am in the field - but the most fruit like thing I have seen them used for is a coffee fruit jelly. Our farm doesn't even do that though, we just compost the fruit part.

I had a couple cups of dried coffee cherry tea from one of the plantations, the employee said that it was a pretty novel type of product for Kona. It was good, but it was a bit expensive for my taste and I preferred to spend my money on the coffee.

Yeah it is really common I think in Central America, but almost no one makes it here. Personally I think it's okay but it is kinda a pain to make (you either need to sun dry or dehydrate the cherry skins). The coffee is much better.

You're already selling home-brew supplies, why not make a wine from it?

I have friends that have a coffee farm and make coffee cherry moonshine, it is fucking strong stuff.

Coffee cherry actually isnt THAT sweet. I would think that you would definitely need to add extra sugar to get anything resembling a good wine. If it would be tasty I would give it a shot though. I think people are picturing a much "jucier" fruit though than coffee really is. Here is a picture of one of our cherries. As you can see it is almost all skin and seed with a thin layer of mucilage which is the fruit.

Hey! I've found this diving on the internet. What do you think of making flour from the cherries?

https://youtu.be/1z34kIq2BWk

I know of one other farm here doing it and it seems pretty cool but honestly such a pain that I probably wouldn't do it. In a zombie apocalypse situation though, that is definitely a good thing to know about lol.

Some farms do use the cherry, actually! Most commonly, people will dry it and brew the cherry as tea - it's called cascara, and it's delicious.

Yeah it is becoming much more common on the mainland. In Hawaii I have only seen it one place - at Daylight Mind Coffee in Kona.

That's really neat! I'd be really interested in trying Kona cascara, but it probably isn't nearly as accessible where I live.

I think what you're doing is incredible, by the way! My partner and I are both in the coffee industry and want to make it out long-term career. I've never even dared to dream of owning a farm!

Yeah I am not sure about shipping it out of Hawaii - there are really strict rules about shipping agricultural products.

Thank you! If one of you could keep your current job, a small coffee farm isn't that unrealistic. There are lots of leasholds in our area for sale with about an acre of coffee - just enough for you to drink and sell the rest to friends and family or maybe one roaster.

What has your worst day as a coffee farmer been like in comparison to your worst day as an attorney ?

Our worst day as a coffee farmer was actually few days in a row when we had horrible flooding in Aug/Sept. 2015. We lost over 700 trees and had severe damage to the top soil in almost every part of our orchard. Here is a link to a video I took during the flooding. And some facebook posts I made with photos of the aftermath.

My worst day as an attorney was not memorable enough to even have a specific day. I remember my boss made me cry a couple times and there were more days than I wish to remember where I went to work in the dark and came home in the dark. But overall being an attorney just felt boring and not fulfilling. When I worked for the USAO as a 3L law clerk though, I was assigned to a lot of child pornography cases and those things stick with you. I am still haunted by some of the evidence I looked at.

Hi and thank you for taking the time. I've got a couple questions for you :). I've been to a couple coffee plantations around Kona, and enjoyed every minute.

• What spurred your move as professionals in a big (and cold) city to farmers on the relatively sleepy island of Hawaii?

• Have bore weevils become an issue on your farm? If so, have they had a big impact on your business, and if not, how have you managed to avoid them? They were a common topic on the plantations I visited.

Thank you!

That's cool that you have been to a few farms in Kona! It is a really great area for ag tourism, and there are some really cool tours (especially of historical coffee farms)!

What spurred your move as professionals in a big (and cold) city to farmers on a the relatively sleepy island of Hawaii?

We knew we wanted to move to somewhere with warmer weather and where we could buy a bit of land. I don't think we ever imagined we would be farmers (maybe that we would just have a nice big garden) but when we fell in love with a farm right in the Kona Coffee Belt, the only way to justify the purchase was if we planted coffee and made the property earn a little income for us.

Have bore weevils become an issue on your farm? If so, have they had a big impact on your business, and if not, how have you managed to avoid them?

I assume you mean Coffee Borer Beetles (CBB) and yes, they are a huge issue for us (and I think all other coffee farmers). We are especially hard hit because of our elevation (2400 ft.). Lower elevation coffees have an easier time of it because they have a portion of the year when their trees are totally bare of coffee cherry. At higher elevations, we have the next year's coffee flowering on our top branches before this year's coffee has been harvested at the lower branches which gives the CBB the opportunity to eat our cherry all year round.

They do hurt our business (in that we have less high grade coffee), but there is a fungus that we spray every three weeks on our coffee and it significantly reduces the CBB populations. This year we lost about 5% of our coffee to CBB which really isn't that bad compared to what farms were losing before the bassiana Fungus became available.

Our friends are using 20 gallons a week on their coffee trees. I'm surprised they can even make a profit anymore, the spray isn't cheap.

That is a CRAZY amount unless they have hundreds of acres. Its like $200 a gallon but you dilute it a ton before you spray it. Do you mean they use 20 diluted gallons?

mahalo for the AMA.

I commend you on the big move. Interested in hearing what spurred your decision.

Chicago is an incredible specialty coffee town. How in to the scene did you get before you decided to dedicate your lives to it? Did you have an experience with roasters or cafes there?

How did you learn how to farm? Seems like a lot of details -- did it ever really intimidate you?

Thanks! Actually when we moved we did not plan to be farmers. We first moved to Maui and had a month-to-month rental while we looked at properties to buy. It didn't take long to realize that we could afford a lot more on the Big Island, so we shifted our search there almost right away.

When we were house hunting around Kona, we fell in love with a property right in the Kona coffee belt (a 30 square mile-ish area where coffee must be grown to be called Kona) and really could not justify the investment unless we farmed it. It is also zoned ag, so for tax reasons we had to at least farm something.

We were not involved in the coffee scene in Chicago at all! I mostly just drank starbucks before buying our farm and my husband barely drank coffee at all. Dedicating our lives to coffee was more about dedicating to farming and coffee just happened to be the crop that made the most sense for our location.

Since then though we have both fallen in love with Kona coffee. We drink our own coffee every day and I legitimately think our coffee is some of the best I have ever tasted. Certainly I am biased (like thinking your kid is the cutest) but it really is very good and we are lucky to love our product so much.

Learning to farm has been a process for sure. We hired a consultant for the first couple of years - a local farmer who has a horticulture PhD from UH in coffee specifically - and he installed our orchard, and has taught us how to maintain it. The coffee is intimidating but an orchard crop is somewhat more forgiving to trial and error than say corn or something. If you make a mistake with your trees, its possible to nurse them back to good health - a lot of orchards here are 70+ years old and still going strong even with a lot of ups and downs.

For all of our non-coffee crops, it's going to sound crazy but we really have just learned from google, youtube and a lot of experimentation. It is totally true that with enough effort you can learn almost anything on the internet lol.

How do you and your husband brew your coffee? (French press, drip machine etc). And finally now that coffee is your career how has it affected your coffee drinking habits both at home and when you are traveling?

We typically brew our coffee pour over (if we just want one cup) or french press in the morning. We have a bodum insulated french press that I love and we will make it first thing and drink about 12-14 oz each of that. We also have a nice burr grinder which we never had in Chicago but is pretty much essential to good coffee.

When I am traveling in the US I seek out good roasters and always want to try their coffee. The main thing I look for are roasters who are supporting their farmers. You can tell by the price of their coffee and usually their marketing materials. If they can sell coffee for $10 or less a pound, they are not paying producers enough (in my opinion) no matter where in the world it comes from.

When I was in Europe last year I barely drank any coffee because everything was roasted so dark! It is common for coffee to be roasted really dark in Hawaii too but personally I only drink light or medium roasts. Even medium tastes burnt to me now. You can't taste the origin with coffee like that so I just loaded mine up with cream.

Hi there! Hope you see this when you wake up. We're a couple in our 30's in a big city and are considering giving up the corporate life for something like what you've done. What's a typical day like for you managing the farm? In the course of a year, is there an off-season or time when you leave to visit family or take vacations? Do you work the farm yourself or do you hire help?

Finally, have you visited the [vanilla farm](www.hawaiianvanilla.com)? I did on my last visit and thought it was a really cool family operation.

Mahalo

Our days really vary! We wake up usually around 7 and to-work around 830 or 9. Not every day is spent working outside - Doug likes to do a one on one off if possible just because it is really tiring doing manual labor. I usually start by doing things on our website, social media, filling orders etc. in the morning because that makes most sense with the time zones to the US. Then in the afternoon I work on projects in the garden or wherever. We are in dry season right now so a fair bit of my time is spent irrigating and hand watering the gardens around our house.

There isnt really an "off season" for us but I guess summer is the easiest time to leave because we don't have any harvesting going on then. We do work the farm ourselves but we hire a lot of help when we need it - especially for picking.

I haven't visited that vanilla farm but we did visit one when we first moved here. I LOVE local vanilla.

What percentage of the coffee in a bag must be grown in Kona in order to market it a "Kona Coffee?"

Legally only 10% must be from Kona and it has to be prime grade or higher. Those are supposed to be labeled "Kona Blend" and say the origins of the other coffees but SO MANY people get away with not doing that. To make sure you are drinking real Kona coffee, it should say "100% Kona Coffee" on the bag.

If it says that it will also be above a certain grade because to protect our brand quality as a region, you are not allowed to use shit coffee, even if it is grown in Kona, and call it Kona. Mediocre coffee can be called "Hawaiian" and worse than that it can't even be called Hawaiian. At the lowest grades people don't even drink it - it gets used it for face scrubs and stuff.

How much do you pay the people who pick coffee for you? by the hour? by the bushel?

We pay our pickers by the pound. They make $.70/lb and can typically pick around 200lbs in a day on average. In your final pound of coffee from us between $6 and $8 of the cost is picker pay.

Sounds like they work in exchange for a place to sleep. I lived in Maui for a time, and found this is quite common on the islands. Google 'WWOOFing' if you want to know more!

No the people who work-trade for us just help out milking the goats, cleaning the chicken coop etc. They usually don't pick coffee but when they do they get paid just like all of the other pickers.

I am a lawyer that also loves coffee. Should I also buy a coffee farm? Also, I have relatives in Kona, can I visit?

Haha I would only buy a coffee farm if you dont want to be a lawyer anymore. And yes if you are in Kona you should swing by for a tour. Our contact info is on our site.

This is so annoying. My wife and I stayed at the sheraton kona resort in 2015, and if we'd known we would've paid a visit!

My question is, do you ship to Europe?

We would ship to europe but I have no idea about the customs or shipping cost. If you are willing to pay for the shipping, yeah we would ship!

Hello! I hope you're still responding to questions as I'd love to know a bit more about what you do. I co-founded a roastery based in Southern California, and one of the big interests for me is sourcing. I'm fascinated by the work that goes into it and we're so fortunate to be able to buy coffee from our friends, and involve them in projects that we're excited about. So what I want to know from you, as an American producer is this:

What is the future of American coffee production? Where do you feel it will be headed, and how will you create a sustainable situation for yourself?

I ask because one of the big things stopping Hawaiian coffee (and a lot of coffee around the world) from getting big, in my opinion, is cost. We're fortunate to have some of the coffees that we have, that are (relatively) expensive but go a long way towards helping the people who produce it. But American coffee, due to labor and agriculture regulations, will never be that cheap. That makes it a challenge for you, as a producer, to get the attention of roasters, because the opportunity just isn't there (so many people I know roast Panama geisha lots and are very fortunate to barely break even on them).

So I'd love to hear the thoughts on that. Is it a huge goal for you to turn it into a massive growing operation? Or do you like where you are, and don't plan on making it bigger? And if so, how do you create a sustainable situation that allows you to maintain that with the creeping popularity of coffee elsewhere?

Thanks! Looking forward to (hopefully) hearing your thoughts!

Yep I am still here!

That is awesome that you are a professional roaster and you care about sourcing! Personally I think that it is roasters (even more than the consumers) - and how they educate their customers - who will shape how the coffee industry moves going forward.

What is the future of American coffee production? Where do you feel it will be headed, and how will you create a sustainable situation for yourself?

So to clarify, by American coffee production, you mean American coffee growing right? Coffee is really only grown in Hawaii (although I did hear that UC Davis is trying to do some test trees) which makes it a little easier to sum-up.

I think Hawaiian coffee is actually in an okay place. We have the CBB which has been hard for our industry, but we are fighting it and most farms have been pretty successful in mitigating losses. We still have a ton of people around the world who seek out Hawaiian coffees - particularly in Japan - and I know a lot of farms that sell ALL of their coffee as green to Japan. We don't do that because I haven't wanted to work with a distributor and prefer to sell directly to the roasters and know the people who will be taking our green to the finished product. I don't think we will ever get rich farming Kona coffee, but my hope is that in the coming years we will have a pretty loyal customer base and a few great roasters so that we can project out sales and spend less time on the marketing end. If we are able to do that, we can plan for potentially adding more trees or just working less in general on our coffee business and spend more time on other areas of our business that make money (like our event space).

I ask because one of the big things stopping Hawaiian coffee (and a lot of coffee around the world) from getting big, in my opinion, is cost.

I mean, Hawaii isn't that big and we don't produce that much coffee (in comparison to many other growing regions). I don't think anyone here wants or needs Hawaiian coffee to "get big" because most farms are able to sell their coffee. However, what I would really like to see (and this is where roasters come in) is an overhaul in coffee consumer education. I want people to understand (especially roasters!!) that our coffee is expensive not because we just think it is worth more but because it costs more to produce.

I have had roasters say to me "why do you think your coffee is worth 4x and much a ___ coffee when it isn't 4x as good?" And really that is a hard question to answer because it isn't "worth" more unless you place value on your coffee being produced with (more than) fair labor conditions and in compliance with real environmental laws. It's a hard road to convince someone to care about something they don't care about and it really comes off "preachy" which I hate.

Is it a huge goal for you to turn it into a massive growing operation? Or do you like where you are, and don't plan on making it bigger? And if so, how do you create a sustainable situation that allows you to maintain that with the creeping popularity of coffee elsewhere?

Our property is only 20 acres and right now 8 of that is planted in coffee. Even if we planted every possible area with coffee, we probably could only plant 15ish acres just because of how our house and chicken area and stuff is. It's in the works to maybe consider adding 4 more acres if it makes financial sense a few years from now - but even that is not a big operation at all. We would only add that section if we were easily selling out of our entire crop of coffee from the 8 acres, so it would be I hope sustainable even though other origins are gaining in popularity.

I want to be clear though that I don't see other origins as our competition because I feel like there is a ton of market share for all of the great coffee from around the world. Our competition is starbucks, dunkin, k cups, shit grocery store coffee etc. and I hope to eat away at a (admittedly very small) part of their customer base just through consumer education. Which is actually part of the reason I did this AMA.

I think the craft beer industry is a good example - for years and years there has been room in the market for more and more craft breweries and those craft breweries were barely competing with eachother. They were taking away business from bud light, but not from each other. Now days there is SO MUCH great beer that breweries are starting and failing all the time, and only the good ones are succeeding. But coffee isnt there yet. Third wave coffee is still on the rise, we haven't reached that over-saturation point (not even close I think). But I am not an economist or anything - that is just my opinion based on totally anecdotal evidence.

Hello, and thank you for your thorough and insightful response! It's wonderful to know that you have a great understanding of your market, and your end goal.

So to clarify, by American coffee production, you mean American coffee growing right? Coffee is really only grown in Hawaii (although I did hear that UC Davis is trying to do some test trees) which makes it a little easier to sum-up.

There's actually a farm just north of us in Santa Barbara that is growing! It's also cool to know that UCD is trying to test as well. I think the hard part is that due to the climate here (neither Santa Barbara nor Davis are particularly humid relative to other coffee growing nations, and the frost point isn't low enough that the comparative altitude doesn't make for much of a similar growing situation as like...2000masl in Kenya), so the coffee...tastes like low altitude coffee. I'd love to try to roast some of their coffee though, to see what's up, only problem is that we can't afford it.

I have had roasters say to me "why do you think your coffee is worth 4x and much a ___ coffee when it isn't 4x as good?" And really that is a hard question to answer because it isn't "worth" more unless you place value on your coffee being produced with (more than) fair labor conditions and in compliance with real environmental laws. It's a hard road to convince someone to care about something they don't care about and it really comes off "preachy" which I hate.

This is tricky on our end too! The thing is...as we have the direct line to consumers and wholesale accounts, we have to explain to them why the coffee is expensive. And while we've been able to do that, we still get a bit of pushback (we spend a lot for our coffee, so our wholesale costs might not be easily as approachable). The thing is, if we are having trouble making an argument from a price perspective despite the fact that we source from dry mills in Africa that provide some of the only opportunities for employment for women in the area, it's going to be a lot harder for us to make the argument that even more expensive coffee is also worth it. So it's one thing that someone like me sees the value in paying a lot for coffees that really do a lot to bring opportunity to the people that grow and process it, but it's another for me to create a sustainable business plan off of it (because even if it just represents one part of our entire product offering, it's still money and effort). It's hard, for sure, but I totally empathize with where you're coming from!

However, what I would really like to see (and this is where roasters come in) is an overhaul in coffee consumer education. I want people to understand (especially roasters!!) that our coffee is expensive not because we just think it is worth more but because it costs more to produce.

I completely agree with you that a consumer education effort is huge, and absolutely necessary, because so many consumers are blasted with information and farm names just become farm names. One of the things we wanted to prioritize, and to educate on, is the story of our coffees, and the real people behind them, but consumers just aren't interested yet (though we're trying). Once consumers understand the effort that goes into producing the coffee, we hope that our prices will be more justifiable (because specialty coffee tends to be expensive, but what people don't see is the slim margins on both the producer and roaster end).

I want to be clear though that I don't see other origins as our competition because I feel like there is a ton of market share for all of the great coffee from around the world. Our competition is starbucks, dunkin, k cups, shit grocery store coffee etc. and I hope to eat away at a (admittedly very small) part of their customer base just through consumer education. Which is actually part of the reason I did this AMA.

What I mean is that for a roaster, we only have so much ability to take on so much coffee, and we want to have a well rounded selection of offerings but there are a lot of situations that make it difficult for us to pick up coffees from a lot of different locations that we'd otherwise love love LOVE to work with. You may get a roaster who looks at coffee and says, "At that price, I'd rather get something from PNG" because...(and I hesitate to say this but I feel like it might be true) some of them only care about rounding out their offerings. But I guess that's why it's up to you to vet your roasters and choose the ones who really want to focus on sharing your story and product at a price that is fair to you, and hopefully you can get a sustainable relationship from that!

I think the craft beer industry is a good example - for years and years there has been room in the market for more and more craft breweries and those craft breweries were barely competing with eachother. They were taking away business from bud light, but not from each other. Now days there is SO MUCH great beer that breweries are starting and failing all the time, and only the good ones are succeeding. But coffee isnt there yet. Third wave coffee is still on the rise, we haven't reached that over-saturation point (not even close I think). But I am not an economist or anything - that is just my opinion based on totally anecdotal evidence

I hope this is the case. I think a lot about coffee and then I meet people who are into specialty coffee but aren't as into it as I am, and I suddenly realize that it's a very deep pond with not a lot of people who are on the deepest end - we just feel that way here (cause there's a LOT of roasters and shops in Southern California) because we see each other and hang out so much that it just feels that specialty coffee is everywhere.

Out of curiosity, what is the total production / acre that you guys are at right now? And what varietals do you guys have going on?

There's actually a farm just north of us in Santa Barbara

I had no idea about that! Cool! I haven't tried the CA coffee and I don't think it is likely to be that good just based on climate. But I think more people doing coffee research (especially in the US) will only be good for me. So the more the merrier.

Re: cost and consumer education:

I TOTALLY get it that not all roasters can buy Hawaiian coffees and I don't think it is necessarily even a bad thing that they don't. It is just frustrating to me personally when they flat out do not even consider it because of price. Roasters are businesses though, not charities, and you have to plan for what your customers will buy and do what is best for staying in business. You won't be helping any farms if you go under.

That said, the roasters we do work with have found that they can work our coffee into their business plan when they don't buy that much. We sell our green by the pound, not by the 100lb bag, so that roasters can buy the exact amount that will fit in their business. One of the roasters we work with primarily sells our coffee buy the cup in his coffee shop and he only buys 10lbs at a time. Even though 10lbs of green isn't that much for us, we still really appreciate the business and every little bit helps. And he is educating his consumers 1 cup at a time about Hawaiian coffee, and they may come back and want more which means he will be able to buy more.

Re: margins - yes I think it is very hard for consumers to understand the difference in pricing between commodity coffee and single origin estate coffee. The margins are huge in commodity coffee and even "fair trade" coffee. That is how you can buy an $8 lb of coffee at Dunkin donuts or whatever.

What I mean is that for a roaster, we only have so much ability to take on so much coffee, and we want to have a well rounded selection of offerings but there are a lot of situations that make it difficult for us to pick up coffees from a lot of different locations that we'd otherwise love love LOVE to work with.

Ahh okay sorry I don't think I understood what you meant. So I get that roasters want to offer a variety of coffees and can't always justify sticking a Hawaiian coffee in a slot when they could get a great Nicaraguan or whatever for a 1/4 of the price. There are only so many slots (packaging and stuff costs money for each type) and you need to focus on what will sell.

The roasters we sell to now solve that by offering our coffee on a really small scale or rotating basis just in their coffee shop and/or offering it more for the holidays or up-scale gifts. One roaster in Michigan we work with buys our extra fancy pretty much just for valentines day and christmas because people are willing to spend more then. So I guess what I am saying is that if a roaster wants a Hawaiian coffee, there is a way to sell it, but it doesn't fit in with every business model and that is okay.

it just feels that specialty coffee is everywhere

Haha I never feel like that living here. The line is sometimes around the block at starbucks and we have locally grown coffee in tons of independent coffee shops. I don't think we (my farm) needs to target the "deepest end of the pond" so to speak of coffee consumers. A lot of our customers buy our coffee just because they like us and they like supporting local farmers. It isn't always a matter of being "into" coffee. We actually send out guides to brewing coffee with our orders just because a lot of people don't know anything about water temp or grind size and I want to make sure they are getting their money's worth after dropping a lot of money (comparatively) on coffee.

Out of curiosity, what is the total production / acre that you guys are at right now? And what varietals do you guys have going on?

We right now have primarily arabica (kona typica) trees but we have a small section of about 10 trees of a hybrid called Kona Passion (also an arabica). They are working out great though (high production, beautiful big beans and tasty!) so we will probably plant more of those.

On our 8 acres our production for the 2016/17 harvest was about 30K lbs of cherry. We project to have more like 40-50K lbs next year and hopefully around 60K lbs going forward after that. Of that coffee about 4,000 lbs of green was produced. Then when it is all graded out we will have about 3,400lbs of sale-able green (some of it is too low of a grade to sell and we either drink it ourselves or if it is really bad compost it). Of that our goal is to sell about half of that in green and the other half as roasted. We have sold about half of our green goal already for the season and we haven't even finished our last pick which is great! On roasted coffee, we are slowly plugging away but still have a lot left to sell.

Do you guys sell/ship coffee internationally?

Unfortunately no. We do ship to Canada on request but it is $25 shipping so usually no one is interested.

Was just in Kona over winter break I heard a some people talking about you business but didn't get the chance to check it out while I was in town, congrats though.

What's the average temp and weather conditions up on the mountain?

You heard about our business! That's great! Because we're new we don't have much of a following built up. Average temp is right about 70 - it's 67 right now. The weather here is truly perfect as far as temp. Winter is dry season and summer is wet. It rains basically every day over the summer.

Hello! I was just on the big island a few weeks ago and visited another Kona coffee farm, mountain thunder, my question is does your coffee differ from theirs at all? and how? also what is the best/ your favorite way to brew Kona coffee!

Yes our coffee differs a LOT from theirs. Mountain Thunder (while a seller of 100% Kona), does not grow their coffee all from one estate. They buy cherry (or green maybe?) from a bunch of different farms all of whom have different elevations, farming methods, tree varieties, level of care etc. Their coffee could sometimes be great and sometimes (more often) is shit but always it is over roasted.

I think aeropress is a great way to brew Kona but really if you are brewing properly (right temp, right grind etc.) I think any method tastes good. I even had our light roast as espresso which was really unusual but tasty!

I was at the Thunder Mountain coffee trees on a tour, and ate some coffee berries from the tree. They were SO good! I have looked everywhere from jam or jelly made from coffee berries and can't find any.
Do you think there would be a market for the tasty berry around the coffee bean? I know I would buy it.

I replied to a comment like that already in the thread. I think greenwell might sell coffee jelly? I know I have seen it around though.

Do you use a natural, honey, or washed process?

Only washed process right now but I would like to do some natural next year if there is a demand for it. A lot of farmers here seem to look down on it because it can kinda hide bad coffee with sweetness.

How'd you get the funds to start your business?

A lot of them were just savings from our jobs. My husband was the really successful one. If you have ever read a michael lewis book, youll know there is a lot of money in trading. But we also had a lot of loans.

How much did he have under management and what were his annualized returns? What was his cut of the p+l? How competitive was it to get in the role? Securities he traded? Was it super algorithmic or more flow? Was he involved in trading during 07/08, and if so, what were his returns then? Did he know Ray Cahnman? Is kona coffee different from regular coffee?

Lol I have NO IDEA what the first questions mean but I will ask him later and try to get back to you. Yes he knows Ray Cahnman and actually was on his desk when he first started out! (small world!)

Kona coffee is different from other coffees but not from "regular" coffee. If you are drinking single origins roasted correctly, you should be able to taste differences in coffees from all over the world. Kona is known for a really smooth easy drinkability. Not a super high acid coffee. There are tasting notes on our website if you are interested in specifics.

Okay so I asked him but he doesn't remember the answers to all the questions. Here is what he said though from 2012 when he left-

• He doesn't know how much he had in management because it depends on which desk he was working. It ranged from 50K to a few million.

• He said the annualized returns depend on how many assets were under management but he thinks his returns were over 100%.

• His desk got 30% of profits and another 30% is put in the firm-wide discretionary bonus pool given out depending on how well you traded.

• It is much more competitive now than it was when he got hired (although to me his process still seems pretty competitive). When he got hired, he started in a summer group of 15 people and then he was the only one out of that pool that got hired on.

• He said it wasnt super algorithmic. They did a lot more market making and used a mean reverting strategy.

• He traded interest rate futures (started with Euro Dollar, then moved to Euribor, Sterling and then moved to Canada and Brazil interest rates)

• He started in 09 so he avoided that dark period.

In the eastern US why is Kona so much more expensive than Sumatran, Ethiopian, etc. coffee from similar distances away, despite not having to be imported?

Most basically, it is expensive because it is grown in a first world country whereas all of those other coffees are not. It is the only coffee in the world grown with restrictions like the US labor laws, minimum wage, workers comp, overtime requirements, insurance requirements etc. If farms in other parts of the world had costs as high as ours, their coffee would actually be more expensive than ours because of the international shipping costs and the importation taxes.

How have the locals treated you? Any standout stories of cold shoulders or above-and-beyond accommodation?

We have had some negative comments just randomly when we are out and about but overall Hawaiians are the most welcoming wonderful people. They really do try to live "aloha" and treat everyone with kindness, respect and love.

Not necessarily from Native Hawaiians specifically, but locals in general were so helpful when we started our farm. Our neighbors all made an effort to meet us and give us tips. Even the local civil servants at the DMV or small business office (not the official name) are really nice. There are rude/mean people everywhere but Kona (and Holualoa specifically) is truly the best community I have ever lived in.

We have had some negative comments just randomly when we are out and about but overall Hawaiians are the most welcoming wonderful people. They really do try to live "aloha" and treat everyone with kindness, respect and love.

Not necessarily from Native Hawaiians specifically, but locals in general were so helpful when we started our farm. Our neighbors all made an effort to meet us and give us tips. Even the local civil servants at the DMV or small business office (not the official name) are really nice. There are rude/mean people everywhere but Kona (and Holualoa specifically) is truly the best community I have ever lived in.

Hi Kate, thanks for doing this. I am a law student who would love to own a farm one day. I am not sure practicing law (after learning about all the biglaw horror stories and living in the law school culture) is what I want to do for the rest of my life. Job market seems tough as well. Do you recommend I stick with it for a few years just to see what actual practise looks like? Or should I make the out-of-the-law jump now because things won't get better? I am in my last year.

edit: spelling

Where do you go to school and how much debt do you have? Those are going to be big factors in dropping out. I would say if you are a 3L, stay in school and definitely take the bar and pass in at least one state. Even if you don't want to practice, you can always fall back on law (at least doc review temp work) to make $20 an hour looking at a computer screen. Most people do not have an easy way to make $20 an hour so you want to always keep that as a fall-back option. Even now I could always reactivate my IL license or take the Hawaii bar if I needed the money.

I will say though if you already know you will not want to be a lawyer, start researching and applying for alternative careers now. Life is too short to do something 5/7 days a week that you hate. And if you must practice law, try to at least live somewhere you love. I LOVED Chicago but weather-wise it was draining me. The winters, not just the cold, but the dark, made it hard for me to find happiness in all of the things I did have (family close by, a nice paycheck, friends, a great city full of culture and great food etc.). My advice is find a way to be happy as a lawyer, and if you can't, do not hesitate to get out.

Hello!

I'm from Kona, I was wondering how much money you make on average per acre per year? Also, what does upkeep look like? I've worked on a couple farms before but never have known the financial side. Do you have people pick the coffee for you and process it giving you a cut or do you harvest yourselves? Thank you

Well so far we don't make any money on the coffee lol. We are operating at a loss on all of our coffee operations. This isn't a surprise to us though - our trees are still young and their production output is fairly low. We support ourselves and our business with the addition of our side-hustles (events, homebrew store, vegetable CSA etc.).

Upkeep is pretty normal for any type of farm. We irrigate, do weed control/prevention, spray for pests (CBB), prune the trees, mow in between the rows, fertilize, harvest during harvest season etc. I would say that takes about 20 hours a week if nothing crazy comes up. But if an animal breaks in (we have had a cow in our coffee field before that somehow wandered in from a neighbor's property) or some severe weather event happens we have to deal with that.

You said you were a lawyer, Any crazy or memorable cases that stuck with you?

I only practiced for two years before leaving to start the farm so I didn't have that many interesting or exciting cases. But when I was a 3rd year law student, I interned at the USAO. One of the only cases where I actually got to appear at the trial was for a misdemeanor case (which are almost never tried in court because most people just plea out and get a fine/probation). But this lady wanted her day in court so we tried the case. It was a social security fraud where this guy thought he got a divorce (but didn't) and his wife kept collecting his social security. What was crazy wasn't that this happened (it is probably pretty common) but that we (really just me haha) had to go collect evidence all over rural Indiana because we were taking it to court. The whole thing was really ridiculous and the jury found her guilty within a day.

Your website states that the coffee is roasted to order for maximum freshness. For how long will the beans retain the freshness? What can be done to extend it?

Beans are usually super fresh and great just in their package (we use a special coffee bag with a valve) for up to two weeks after roasting. They stay pretty good (like only super coffee tasters can tell the difference) for up to a month. After that they slowly lose flavor and can become stale. You can extend that by storing your coffee with as little exposure to light, air and humidity as possible. (In the pantry in a sealed opaque canister or jar is great). Also don't grind your beans until right before you drink them.

Personally I will drink coffee that's even months old but I'll just make it into iced or into a coffee cocktail or something (Baileys can make anything taste good imo lol).

Hi, and thank you for all the knowledge passed on here. Quite amazing.

Searching the IAMA, I did not read about decaffe, so apology if you have commented? From your web-site, did see this... "Our lightest and most caffeinated roast." Sounds great! But, alas, doctor told me to slow down the caffeine, so which of your blends would be lowest?

EDIT: P.S. How are yours shipping charges determined? Like to an idea before signing up in the checkout buying.

No one has asked about that actually! You're the first! So we don't sell decaf (as far as I know the beans have to go through a special process to be decaf and we don't have anyone on our island who does it). I think your best bet is a dark roast because it does have less caffeine or just drink less coffee. Probably if I were in your situation I would just drink a small amount of great coffee and hope to be satisfied with that.

best bet is a dark roast because it does have less caffeine or just drink less coffee. ... drink a small amount of great coffee and hope to be satisfied with that.

Ahh, like this! My doctor will not, but too bad, haha. Also, in my first post, just now added a question about your shipping charges, how are determined?

We ship in flat rate boxes or envelopes. Anything that fits in a flat rate envelope (generally 1.5lbs or less) ships for $6.10 priority mail. The next size up is $11.50 I think which is a medium box and holds quite a bit.

Do you roast at all or just farm green beans? I live coffee and travel for work. I'm constantly looking for new coffee to try

Yes I roast our coffee in a Sonofresco fluid bed roaster. I also have a little gene-cafe that I do really small batches or test batches in. If you come to Hawaii you should come by the farm for a tour!

what is your favorite type of coffee to grow?

We grow almost all arabica coffee (kona typica specifically). We have a little section of another type called Kona Passion but only about 10 trees of that as a trial.

Hi Kate and Doug!
I was in Kona recently and took a tour of another lawyer-turned-coffee-farmer and it was delightful.

Do you guys know each other and hang out? (Not mentioning the other company name to be respectful of your AMA)

No I don't know them! Feel free to post who they are haha if they don't mind. I know another lawyer turned dragonfruit and bee keeper but that's it.

Have you considered any geisha varieties? Obviously, the yield is low and they are temperamental, but they seem to fetch a high price and are stunningly delicious.

Also, is your drying process with washed coffee? Can you process naturally (dry with fruit on) in Hawaii or is it too humid?

We havent tried geisha but I really really want to plant some. I don't know anyone selling the starts though.

We dry on big drying decks. Where we live it is too foggy and wet to dry our coffee well so we bring it to a lower elevation farm who dries it for us. You can dry naturally but it takes much longer, is much more work and attracts a ton of bugs. I still want to give it a shot though if people would be willing to pay the increased cost for it.

Thanks for the prompt reply! I envy your willingness to leave everything behind and try something new, and I am particularly glad that you seem to be content with the move.

Your farm is probably ideal for a geisha since you are small enough to attend to it. Unfortunately, you may have to go off the island to find the starts. I have yet to hear of any Hawaiian geishas.

I particularly love the naturally processed coffees, as it imparts a fruitiness you cannot achieve otherwise. I know it's a process more typically suited for arid regions like Ethiopia. However, maybe you could sort out a way to do it indoors.

Best of luck to you!

Thank you! And yeah I also really love naturals. There are people doing them here, so it's not impossible. Carta Coffee has a natural I know. I haven't tried it so I can't recommend them personally but you could give it a shot.

I've just started making my own cold brew. It's not bad but I could use something stronger and smoother. I currently use Cafe Bustelo (don't make fun of me).

What do you suggest?

I won't make fun of you because I don't know what Cafe Bustelo is LOL.

Stronger how? Darker or stronger in caffeine? It might be your brewing method that you should change up but for that I am not the person to ask because we just steep ours in the fridge and then strain it through cheese cloth. It's probably a technique as old as coffee has been around.

I would always recommend buying coffee from local roasters who source their coffee directly from farmers. You really are being a conscious consumer when you do that and you will benefit too by drinking great coffee. If you wanted to buy our coffee, I think the best roast for iced is our Kalikimaka.

Would you be interested in some design (branding/web-design/copy) help?

Only if it was free! Otherwise I will just stick to what I have. Unfortunately we are a one-woman shop for all of that right now because there is no extra money in the budget to pay anyone. I am always open to constructive criticism or help though!

Which is better? Light roasting or dark roasting?

Its all personal preference. Most third wave roasters prefer light roasts because it really helps you taste the nuance of the coffee. A lot of casual drinkers like dark roast because they like the toasty notes and don't really care about the terroir of the coffee.

Have you ever visited other coffee shops on other islands? If so, which ones? I may or may not have worked at a ton of coffee shops.

On other islands? Not really. I do go to them occasionally but I cant remember any memorable coffee.

Thanks so much for the informative AMA! My boyfriend and I love coffee, and I just placed an order for a trio! I'm not sure if I've ever had 100% Kona coffee before so I am really looking forward to trying your coffee :) When placing my order, I saw you do not recommend it ground before it gets to me. Why is that?

Awesome thank you! I hope you love it!

There are people much more educated than me about whole bean vs. pre-ground but I will try to sum it up as best I can. So basically, coffee beans have oils in them where most of the flavor is stored. Oxygen can degrade these oils and make the coffee stale. When the coffee bean is still whole, it acts as its own little storage container, trapping most of the flavor inside. When you grind the coffee, you increase the surface area exponentially, and expose more of it to air. Some experts say that coffee, once ground, can go stale in as little as 7 minutes if not stored in an air tight container. I haven't personally tested this but I can taste the difference between fresh ground and coffee ground the day before.

A coffee grinder is a pretty inexpensive purchase over the life of the grinder –especially if you are an avid coffee drinker. Also, if you are purchasing great (and expensive!) coffee, it makes sense to get the most out of your purchase by grinding it fresh. I (and all coffee professionals really) recommend a burr grinder because it grinds the coffee more uniformly, which results in a better cup of coffee. However any type of coffee grinder (IMO) will be better than using pre-ground coffee.

What do you sell your coffee for a pound? Why so expensive?

Most basically, it is expensive because it is grown in a first world country. It is the only coffee in the world grown with restrictions like labor laws, minimum wage, workers comp, overtime requirements, insurance requirements etc. The markup you are paying on our coffee over cost is about 25%. And those "costs" do not include our salaries. If we paid ourselves minimum wage, we wouldn't even be breaking even on the coffee. That bad of a return won't be the case forever though - as our trees get more mature, we will have more consistently large harvests and we should be able to pay ourselves slightly better than minimum wage. But no one here coffee farms to get rich.

Probably too late, but why does roasted coffee continue to give off gas, and what is that gas?

Roasted coffee gives of CO2 for about 2 weeks after roasting which is called "de-gassing." I have no idea what the science is behind that but I am sure someone on r/coffee could help you out.

Do you have any tips for adjusting to such a huge career change?

Make sure you really want to do it! And try not to burn any bridges so that if you did decide to go back to your old career, you could. I keep my law license inactive in IL, but I could always reactivate and apply for jobs.

Aloha, big island neighbor! I work on Maui controlling coqui and LFA (little fire ant). The coffee borer beetle was just discovered for the first time on my island out Hana side. Could you tell me how the beetle ohas effected your crops and the greater coffee market there, and what you are doing to battle it?

Oh man LFA and coqui are huge problems here too! LFA has been discovered in the area although (thankfully) is not on our farm (knock on wood). CBB is tough to fight because they live for SO LONG (they can hibernate (not the right word I know) for a really long time and then pop up again. We spray ours with the bassiana Fungus every three weeks which helps a lot but I don't think Kona coffee will ever be as good as it was before the beetle came.

As far as the greater coffee market, it used to be that someone with a few trees in their yard could more or less just let them grow and have some coffee each year. Now, unless you spray, you will likely not have any drinkable coffee. The government has done some great subsidies though to help with the cost of the bassiana Fungus and I hope that those will continue because they really help farmers.

I'm likely to be visiting Kona in the next couple of weeks. If I wanted to purchase some coffee from you where would I go that wasn't online? I would love to get the freshest Hawaiian coffee direct from the farm.

You'd come to the farm! We do tours and tastings if you set it up with us in advance (you can just email me) and you can buy coffee then.

What's your personal favorite roast you two have made? I may buy a bag or two ;)

Thanks!! Anuenue is my favorite but if you like a darker roast Kalikimaka is great.

Oh my goodness, I've been looking other coffee farms. Right now I've been buying from Makahiki Farms and Ka'U Farms. Those two have awesome coffee and I know you guys will have some great coffee, too. I will be getting a pound next Friday.

My question is this, you guys look very young. Land is incredibly expensive in Hawaii. How did you guys come across so many acres for sale and was it expensive to get? Because it's been my dream to move there and become a brewer too, but there's no way I can afford it. How did you guys manage to do this, if you don't mind me asking. Because you're very fortunate and I'm so happy for you to be living your dream !

Are there any people that you know selling more land for cheap? If so, I'd love to speak to them about it. I've done about as much research as I can do without actually going there.

Anyways, I look forward to doing business next week. Also, are your beans Arabic in nature?

I am not familiar with Makahiki Farms but Ka'u coffee is really great and is having a (deserved) surge in popularity. I am not surprised you love their coffee. Thank you for giving ours a shot too!

Yes we are both just 30. The land was listed in the MLS so it wasnt hard to find it, but it was really expensive. We were fortunate to have had really high paying jobs before (my husband especially) which allowed us to buy it.

Our neighbors are actually selling a big parcel but I think they are WAY overpricing it so I wouldn't recommend it to you. If this is really your dream though, I recommend looking into leasehold properties. You can get a lot for your money that way.

And yep our beans are arabica.

Hallo, im from germany and currently studying agriculture [sadly we have no classes about tabaco or coffee]. I was wondering where did you get the knowlage to operate a whole farm? From what i learned its pretty difficult to build a new farm and get it running.

We hired a consultant for the first few years to help us and teach us. It really has been a long road and learning process and we still don't know even close to everything we need to know. Just tomorrow my husband is going to a class at the CTAHR (College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources) to learn more about a pest we get a lot.

I enjoyed going through your photos on the website but disappointed that there weren't any photos of the coffee shrubs. I think photos of the flowers, berries and raw beans would be nice as well. Could you also take a photo of the coffee shrubs with someone standing by it for scale? I always wondered how big they can grow. I used to grow one indoors for a few years.

Ahh sorry there are a bunch on our instagram! I don't know if I have one with someone standing right next to it but there are at least a couple with people standing near by. I will definitely take your tip though and add more coffee plant pictures to our site.

The trees can get really tall if you dont prune them but we only let ours get up to 8ish feet before pruning.

I read that global warming may cause a decrease in coffee quality. Is there anything you do currently to lower the temperature of your plants, or has this not posed a problem? (Student doing a science fair project on global warming and coffee)

Yeah climate change has totally affected coffee in Hawaii at least. It used to be that coffee grew well only between 1000 ft and 2400ish ft. But now it only grows well between 14/1500 ft. and 3000 ft. Farms as high as mine used to be mostly for cattle ranches but in the last decade or so tons of people are planting coffee at higher and higher elevations where it used to not be able to grow. Luckily at 2400 ft we are still towards to top of the coffee growing area, but the farms under 1500 ft. are having a very tough (if not impossible) time of it.

About how much coffee does your orchard produce on average? Is 8 acres on the large side for a farm on the big island or more average? I'm also curious to know if your land was already a working orchard when you purchased it or did you lease a patch of land and start from scratch?

The average size of a coffee farm in kona is 5 acres but that average is a little misleading because there are TONS of "farms" where people have an acre or less and then a few huge farms with hundreds of acres. I think 8 acres is pretty normal for people who coffee farm as their full time job.

This year we produced about 30K lbs of cherry which is on the lower end but our trees are still very young - many of them didnt produce at all this year or had like one branch producing. We expect to have a bigger harvest next year.

Our land is owned not leased and there was no coffee on it when we bought it. We planted the orchard from scratch.

Thank you very much. So you can grow a LOT per acre.

Yeah but that weight is cherry not final green or roasted coffee. There are about 8lbs of Cherry in a lb of roasted coffee.

Are there any days where you regret leaving the corporate world? What do you miss about the corporate world?

Yeah sometimes! Even though I was a lawyer, I miss being able to leave my work at work. Now that I own my own business, it is just work all the time. But that work feels better because everything we do benefits us and our bottom line so it feels good busting ass.

I miss the perks! Lunches out, work parties, health insurance etc. Now I eat lunch at home every day and we provide our own health insurance.

Is Dutch Bros good coffee?

I've actually never had it! I know it has a good reputation in the pacific northwest but I couldn't give you an opinion.

Did you purchase fee simple or leasehold land? Also, one your coffee is mature, how many pickers do you think you'll need to harvest 8 acres of coffee?

We purchased fee simple. We usually have between 8-10 pickers and picks take 2-4 days.

My partner and I are looking to do the same thing you are. Been farmers the majority of our lives. What part of the island is your farm? Holualoa? Captain cook? Waimea? Somewhere else?

Holualoa. That's awesome! You should go for it :)

Any chance you'd give reddit a special discount code? At $40 a pound plus shipping, I can get Kona coffee locally in Alabama for the same price or less. Thank you!

I did put one in the top of the post - use code "reddit" for 15% off. But also, if you are finding Kona for less than $40 a lb in Alabama I can almost guarantee it isn't 100% Kona. It is probably a blend where only 10% is Kona. If it is 100% Kona, it is probably a very low grade. Otherwise there is no way it would be that price.

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How so? I just went to check it and it looked totally fine and normal. Do you just not like the design or are there some broken links or problems with usability?

Edit - ahh okay thanks for letting me know! Our internet sucks too - a lot of times I am below 1mb/s. One of the downsides of living in rural Hawaii for sure.

I can't duplicate the behavior I was seeing but it was like the images and style sheets hadn't loaded so layers of text over one another.

The website is actually beautiful, I see you're through squarespace which would lead me to believe that you're running their content management system so it might just be a mix of sharing bandwidth/server time with other squarespace customers and for devices as crappy as mine the CMS front end might be a little sluggish.

Optimizing the JPEG images will boost load times at the expense of image quality and maybe bog my device down a little less but there's probably little more that could be done without trimming out Squarespace' WYSIWYG code. I'm a huge fan of Amazon's cloud but that's because I code everything I do by hand which keeps everything really cheap.

Your farm is lovely!

So much of that went way over my head! But thank you for letting me know! Sometimes it loads weird for me too but refreshing always fixes it so I never really looked into it very closely.

We do use squarespace and mostly because I'm not much of a coder myself. If I'm understanding you right, if I reduced my image size a bit I'd get faster load times on the site? I did consider that, but on a big desktop it looks super grainy.

Thank you! I really appreciate it!