IamA 3rd generation in a family business which produces close to 500.000 sweaters a year AMA!

What is the most exciting fact about sweaters?

That they're kind of special. you know with regular t-shirts and other pieces of clothing you just need a large piece of fabric which you cut and stitch together to suit your need. Possibilities are endless.

However with flat-knitted sweaters you make the fabric from scratch, knitting process is very delicate (pattern making, colouring techniques are also delicate and special) and kind of limited in a special way. Even stitching/linking is special. The whole thing is actually fun beautiful and as I've said, special.

How ugly are your products? I mean this in the best possible, Christmasy way.

Sadly enough we don't make Christmas sweaters because we don't make thick sweaters. See, with flat knitting there are "gauges". They are the needle count per inch with the machine. The thicker the needles, thicker the yarn, less the count of needles in an inch, thicker the sweater.

Christmas sweaters are usually 3, 5 or 7 gauges. Our machinery is 14 gauges, hence, close to the finest possible fabric you can get from flat knitting. (think Italian style sweater you'd put on a shirt rather than a cozy warm Christmas sweater you'd wear on a stay-in day)

How does your company differentiate itself from other textile companies? How do you compete against low cost alternatives?

What kind of quality controls do you have? Software to track defects, etc? I work in IT for a textile manufacturer, so I'm curious.

Thanks!

We definitely don't differentiate price-wise. Our prices are not the cheapest not by any measure. We differentiate by quality that comes as a result of established-ness in the past 40 years + all the experience. Creativity + experience and quality that comes along with it creates the added value that results in the justification of "rather premium" prices.

Quality controls are all hand-made. When fabric is first knitted and out of the machine, every single piece is controlled for defects. After linking and stitching another round of quality control is made. After that the goods are sent to ironing and although it is not the exact job description, the ironing personnel looks for defects as well, since everything looks clearer after ironing. Finally, the packaging department catches any possible defects before packaging and sending. A lot of eyes are laid on them before being sent out so most defects are well caught.

We actually don't use a lot of software nor automation which could be our biggest deficiency. Yet all steps should be taken with precaution with this "manufacturing" sector as I see it more as craftsmenship rather than an industry where you can have a line with exact precise data.

What do you do with sweaters that have defects? Can you unravel them and user the yarn again?

If they haven't been ironed, meaning they are still in pieces of fabrics not linked, we can unravel them and use again but usually that yarn is used for less delicate stuff. (like collars) Other than that if a tiny defect is noticed at the last minute just before packaging and it is unfixable, we just put it away and after we've accumulated some we sell them to the employees if they want to buy at nominal prices really. (~cost, a bit less than the cost) Sometimes we might give some away to charity too, depends.

You say they're not the cheapest -- what's the price range on them?

I'd say 18 to 30USD per piece. Keep in mind these are not retail prices.

...what are the retail prices?

We don't retail. Depends on the type of customer obviously and that is beyond our business. On average if they're buying for 22$, some would sell for 40, some would sell for 60 I really don't know. It all depends on their brand. If you can pull of selling them for 2 grand a piece to celebrities, go ahead.

Why the lack of concern for the end retail price? Isn't that a big factor in your sales price? Or do you price your product based on cost plus assumed margin?

Where do you see your business in 5 years? Do you see any shifting demand in the market? New consumers, new styles, new fabrics, etc.?

Cost + assumed margin ofcourse. Wouldn't it be incredibly unethical to work the prices down from the retail price of the customer?? Never heard of any business that does that.

Dynamics in the market are constantly changing. Most of our customers' markets are in Russia and their orders are definitely cutting down because of the ruble/dollar crises. That's why our focus is more on high volume Turkish corporates this year. There are a lot of dynamics and things can turn the other way around in 5 years too.

I wouldn't think it would be unethical at all. If you're the only guys that are producing high-quality, niche sweaters that are addressing a price inelastic consumer, then I would expect that to be priced into the product. And I don't think retailers would be surprised to see you take advantage of that either.

Have you guys considered creating your own brand and opening your own retail stores? I think vertical integration could be a huge growth opportunity for you.

We're not the only ones but we are the better ones. We don't think/plan to open retail stores although it might look like a huge opportunity. (requires vast amounts of capital) However an online store sounds like a good idea, considering the online shop demand I've seen from this AMA.

What was Boeing's offer and why did you reject it? May I please have a sweater?

It was the Aircraft Financing department. I had to relocate obviously to the other side of the globe, give up on my entire life here and as I've said I was brought up with the expectation of working at the family business.

Although I'm contend with the business most of the times I sometimes question whether I should've opted for a more "qualitative" way. I don't know. Rejecting that offer was probably the single-most important decision I've ever made in my life thus far.

What kind of sweater would you like? Men's, Women's?

If your making decent enough money, it wasn't a bad decision, my family have their own businesses but the money isn't there for me to take over and run an empire, there isn't anything for me to run thus no income for me to take home.

So I guess my question is, is it a profitable business?

"I" am not making decent amount of money but my family does so there's prospect for me to earn too I guess. We'll see how it goes with the family count increase as generations go by. That is my single biggest concern. There just isn't a governance on income distribution or a corporate structure. Everyone just takes whatever they need but there are arguments all the time which make me incredibly nervous. But short answer is yes, it is a profitable business. It is profitable enough to provide decent lives to around 20 people. (size of the large family) If I were, or only my parents were the owners, I'd be rolling in it.

Interesting really, my family are in the hospitality business so money isn't consistent as it's a Seasonal Business, but if it's providing enough money for 20 individuals, I'm surprised there's that much money in manufacturing under a million units per annum..

Maybe I need to relocate to Egypt and open a factory making sweaters? :)

Wrong country :) It is about the experience since there are a lot of delicacies that go into making sweaters. Seriously. One thing is there needs to be a supply of craftsmen from the coming generations but there's a great lack of interest in that part. (and rightfully so, industries are shifting)

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Yeah that was a viable option. Past is past I guess.

I love sweaters, because they are half shirt and half art. Is different machinery needed to knit wool than to knit cotton blends?

Why aren't pants made out of sweater material? (You're welcome.)

If you wanted to destroy my sweater, what would you do?

No the machinery is exactly the same for wool and cotton. Only difference in machinery while manufacturing sweaters would be the thickness. Pants aren't made out of knitted fabrics because they tend to be stretchy and not so rigid to be worn as pants. I've seen some make tights for women from aforementioned rayon-nylon yarn knitted very thick purposefully but it is not worth it IMO. What do you mean by destroy your sweater? Do you mean never fixable again? If so just cut a bit with scissors where there's no stitching or linking, because the edges aren't bound off now, the rest will come out eventually especially if you pull on some lines of thread. (cutting horizontally would make things worse)

was wondering how far I'd have to go for a weezer reference. I can imagine this non american dude sitting at his computer reading your question being like wtf why does this person want me to destroy their sweater

And why the hell is he naked, lying on floor? WHY THE FUCK IS HE COMING UNDONE?!

Seriously why?

Do you do any hand work with them? What sort of fibers do you use?

Do I personally do any hand work? I've been at the business whenever I had free time ever since I was a little kid and used to help with packaging and stuff. Now I'd still do if I didn't have anything better to do and the department was very intense / in need of extra hands. (they usually are when in season)

Fibers we use are mostly wool for the winter and cotton for spring/summer. However we also have soft cashmere feeling viscose mixed core-spun yarn, o composition of rayon/nylon which is incredibly difficult to work with as its super slippery which we have a lot of experience with. (another core competency) We are basically capable of working with any kind of yarn should the customer demand it but fibres I've listed above are the best price/performance-wise so those in turn become the ones we work with the most.

Are many people still wearing sweaters? To be honest, I don't see many now where I live (Australia). We used to wear them a lot as kids, though.

Funny you say that because some of the best wool in the world comes from Straya. Also the sweaters we make aren't like extremely warm keeping christmas sweaters but more like very fine material sweaters classy people would wear. I don't know if I am getting this through without a pic and my non-native language but any finer would be translucent.

What is the softest, most fluffy stuff you make sweaters out of? Is there anything softer?

Absolutely softest feeling thing you'll get is that cashmere resembling (texture-wise) yarn I was mentioning. Although it is the composition of two synthetic fibres (viscose and nylon), viscose is core-spun onto the nylon so it feels like a natural fibre and feels very soft.

Then again we could make sweaters out of any yarn, if the customer is willing to pay the premium that comes with it obviously.

I have a question for you. We are similar in some ways, let me tell you my background quickly.

I work with my father now, at the family business. We are an agent for textiles companies. Example, River Island/Next comes to us with orders and we take those orders and get them made by one of the many factories we are partnered with.

Now, I'm second generation and I am 24 years old. I have completed my university degree and I will most probably one day inherit the business. I'm working alongside my cousin right now. We don't require that many people to run the business itself, but it's growing quickly.

My question for you is, did you have any doubts about joining the family business?

At first, I did. And I still do, to some aspect. I'm doing it, because it's a strong business and it's a family business. But I don't intend to keep it much later on. I have things that I want to do myself. I wasn't keen on taking on the family business.

How did you rationalize you joining the family business? Did you not have any other dreams for your life?

EDIT: Also realized you are Turkish and you operate in Turkey. My family is Turkish as well but we operate in the UK.

Well you've basically summed up the way I feel completely. I feel exactly the same. I don't know where life will lead me to but I've never been into textiles and I would've never worked at this field if it wasn't for the family business. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy doing what I do. I tend to enjoy anything where I manage to add some value to. I feel like I am contributing to the business and not just making another dull task so everything is cool now. If it wasn't for the family business my dream would be to work for a world leading innovative company like Tesla Motors or something.

I've always been very tech savvy and after spending half a year in San Francisco I am into that San Franciscan mindset/mentality more than ever so I sometimes feel like; "How is making sweaters contributing to the world anyway?" I'd love to become the next Elon Musk as much as the next guy and maybe starting a job at Boeing would be the first step towards my future life in the Silicon Valley but I opted for the family and friends. Relocating literally halfway across the globe was daunting. That isn't to say I'll keep with textiles forever either. I'm only 22 years old and I've already finished a good college and if I'm lucky enough I might have capital to start businesses I see a future in thanks to the family business. I constantly get new business ideas and one of these days I might diversify. Overall my outlook is positive although I'll always have this "what if?" about my possible life in the U.S.

Which country are you guys in? Yours is more office work as much as I can tell. Maybe we should work together ;)

Does your company make sweaters for pets?

It does now.

Seriously, people who will spend $200 on a sweater for a chihuahua are more common every day. Super soft, pure cashmere, fine gauge hoodie for $300 for a 1kg dog -- sounds almost reasonable.

Correct but those margins are achieved by retailers. We are the manufacturers, not the retailers.

We do not as of yet. Not that we couldn't.

Is there a website or something so we can see the sweaters you produce? I think people would like to see it.

Unfortunately no as catalogue of designs are incredibly valuable in this industry to not put up on the web for free. Here are a couple of vaguer ones from the showroom to give an idea of the style at least; Imgur

Is that a Shima Seiki machine? How many flat knitting machines are you running?

Yes it is! We mostly have SSG124 Compact machines and we operate 24 of them. However we have a lot of outsourced subcontractors for peak season times as well.

What percent of your cost of doing business pays for labor? Will you be implementing any new processes to automate production in the next few years?

I don't have that much experience nor the authority to get new processes in as of yet. But in long term sure I think I'll add my "new generation" outlook value to the company if I keep at it. I believe I've already done some improvements especially with raw material inventory keeping and some calculations regarding planning. Analytical thinking as always been my strongest suit so I plan on heading that direction (efficiency, analysis etc.) I know almost nothing about fashion.

As for automation, I don't think full automation is possible with this sector ever as it is more of a craftsmanship work then an industry line. Yet it is too soon to tell for me as I've been in the business full time for less than a year.

whats your favorite material to make a sweater out of? personally, i fucking love cashmere. i feels like the sweater is making sensual love to my skin. but, i do love me a very thick cable knit sweater as well, even though they arent cashmere.

I don't like cable knit sweaters personally. I don't "love" wearing wool either as it is kind of itchy for my skin. My personal favourite would definitely be cashmere and materials from the softer side. Cotton too is not disturbing, soft enough and relatively cheap so there's that.

It's too bad you couldn't come to Seattle, it's beautiful here! Do you have something that will keep me warm and relatively dry while fishing?

Seattle is beautiful indeed. Been there as a tourist after my 6 months as an exchange student in San Francisco for one semestr during college. Best times of my life indeed. I could sort out "relatively warm" but sweaters aren't really the best when it comes to keeping you dry as their fibres are spongy and knit obviously.

Say hi to Fremont for me :)

Fremont is a fine town! As for the sweaters, I wasn't planning on wearing one in open rain (I have a coat for that), do you sell something you think would cut down on wind, and how would I go about getting my hands on one of your products?

The only way for that would be me sending one(not so secret Reddit santa?) as we don't retail nor have our own brand. I could look something up Monday morning but AFAIK cutting down on wind would mean wearing lots of layers. (Not that I'd know better than you since I live in a warmer climate then Seattle. But then again expecting a northface type of extreme wind resistance from a sweater would lead to disappointment. Haha)

Are you looking for men's wear or women's wear btw?

Then how much money do you make?

I personally make around 10K Usd per year. (Not too bad considering our currency is weaker than the dollar) And it is ok for now as I've moved back in with my parents after college. (No rent, relatively low food expenses)

Although there isn't an exact figure my parents are probably making north of a $110k a year.

You turned down a job offer from Boeing for $10k a year? Is this possibly a typo? BTW thanks for sharing. I'm in the men's clothing business (buying and selling) and love reading about personal manufacturing experiences. Its been a treat! Too bad I can't get my hands on any of your sweaters- your pics seem pretty awesome!

Thanks! That definitely isn't a typo. But please do consider with 10K$ I live in Turkey which is cheaper than USA because of the currency. Sure Boeing was going to pay me much more and I would have a great career prospect (I had one corporate internship as part of EY and a part-time job at a web startup before) Yet as I've said I wasn't ready leaving my "entire life" to go work. For people to migrate to another continent they need to have a unhappy life as is, I didn't have that. Also I have great prospect to make money in the future too so no worries. Only thing that worries me is that if things go south with the business in the future, say in my 30s, with my family business being my only full-time job experience I'd have trouble finding a good job. I just have to do my best to make sure something like that never happens.

what is the name of your sweater brand and where do you sell them?

We don't have a brand we are manufacturers. We don't retail nor manufacture to stock. We produce to customer's labels and our markets are mostly Russian, Turkish, Bulgarian, Greek and some Danish/Swedish occasionally.

However we do make our own designs and collections to aid/sell to some customers. There are a ton of sample/proto making going on.

I run a small clothing company and had a really hard time finding sweater manufacturers overseas that catered to smaller businesses. Why do manufacturers have such high minimums?

Define high minimums. Because of our premium prices and relatively better quality it is difficult for us to find higher volume customers. Our minimums would be (depending on the type of order, payment and time in the season) around 2,000 to 5,000 pieces per order.

Other insane manufacturers who make a million of sweaters at least a year are bound to give up on care and quality a bit and rightfully they require higher minimums as making small amounts definitely cuts the yield and harms efficiency greatly.

This is probably still quite a large order for a small company, particularly if the numbers require it to be of the same variety of product

A 2,000 piece minimum order would have on average 8-10 models, each having 2-3 colour variants and 5 different sizes. So unique number of items turns out to be a lot.

So, the saying goes that the first generation start wealth, the second build it and the third loose it. Is this a worry of yours?

Sounds like competing family interests from your generation might damage the strategic drive behind the business.

It definitely does. That's why I was hesitant to go work for Boeing at a possibly great corporate career but leaving friends and family is always daunting. People who do good in their own country and who have good relationships with their families can't migrate so easily.

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I don't get what you mean by bumps but if you mean the sweater elongating or losing form, you can use velvet covered hangers someone else also asked this.

You said you are in turkey, how are the working conditions there and is there a push to unionize? Also you said your average worker makes 6k usd how does that compare to national average?

Working conditions are O.K. in Turkey and I'd say it is way better than the average for our company. Employees of the company on average have been working there for 10-15+ years, they are happy with their wage and conditions. Our workday is 8.5 hours a day + 1.5 hours for lunch break and the little 30 minute break afternoon. Wages are more than what they would get elsewhere and experienced staff certainly makes much more than that. National average would be 4 to 5K USD a year I guess? They're all insured with health benefits too goes without saying of course, no underaged workers or nothing. My family takes ethics of good value when it comes to business as the business is literally worthless without them and it is their "right"

I just read an entire AMA on sweaters, and now I want one lol.

Have you marketed your buisness towards the high end fashion market in the USA? I could see NYC eating up a stylish sweater like the ones you posted.

Fashion markets in the US mostly lean towards Asian manufacturers because of the geographical advantages. (price advantages are there too of course) It is difficult to reach out to them but sure it'd be great.

Where is your factory? What country!

Istanbul / Turkey

Turkey makes the most advanced garment washing machines. We do garments also.

What kind of garments?

We do a lot of different types. Both woven and knit. Mostly tops.

Flat-knit or circular knit? What kind of machines do you use? Which country are you located in?

Do you only make the one type of sweater? Cos half a mil of sweaters doesn't sound like a lot, even if you made $10 per sweater, it would come out to be 5 mil, and you have 100 employees, and as I understand $10 profit would be a lot for a sweater(probably more around 5 dollars per sweater). I'm guessing you're in a third world country where each employee gets maybe two thousand dollars a year and a million dollars in profit goes a long way?

Not quite a third world country but not first world either. (Istanbul/Turkey to be precise)

Average employee would make ~6000$ a year and beieve it or not close to half a mil is a pretty large number for the type of higher quality work we do. These things are very delicate and require craftsman attention.

Do you regret not going to work at Boeing, and not having to deal with family drama?

I can't know that definitively as of yet since it has only been 7-8 months since I started. But sure I'll always have that question, how would it be to live in the U.S. etc. but I feel OK for now.

I know this is your AMA, but just wanted to say, you are still young. To be honest, getting the work experience outside in a "real" company, and coming back to work for the family business is quite valuable. Family business are always run like family business, even ours, which is really quite big now. Having worked outside for over 10 years, I can see a huge difference between a "professional" company and a family business, even one that is as large as ours.

By the way, i worked in Aerospace for 10 years, started in cabin interiors then over to In Flight Entertainment systems. I've dealt a lot with both Boeing and Airbus over the years. It's also a pretty interesting industry.

I know what you mean. I worked part time in a web startup in Istanbul for close to a year in my senior year. Because it was a startup it had like an open office environment and working together with the founders who have great experience with businesses obviously helped a ton. I suppose I could've worked at Boeing for a couple of years to come back with more insight, yet I just let by gones be by gones for my self joy and inner integrity :) haha

Are your sweaters the itchy or non-itchy kind?

Depends on the type of fibre used. Itchy if wool.

If I wanted to start my own brand of high end sweaters, how would your company be able to help?

By making the sweaters.

What about design consultations and prototyping? Drop-ship capabilities?

We don't drop-ship, not because it is a policy or anything but because nobody (almost) demanded it.

As for design consultations and prototyping, we make models we like throughout the season and create something like a collection. We have in-house designers too and everyone is welcomed to contribute. It is a rather liberal environment to make samples. Sometimes customers bring their own designs, drawings in, sometimes they choose from ours, there are a lot of "inspiring" going on. We make A LOT of samples.

Any advice for other people interested in becoming 3rd generation owners of a family business?

Not really as I've only been working there for around 8 months and wouldn't consider myself the owner. But one piece of advice anyone can give would be to respect the business. You may come from the owner's family but are not the owner yet. So do not look down on people especially workers and respect them, try and learn stuff from them.

Considering the business has been running so long and sounds successful enough it could support you without too much work. What keeps you/makes you motivated?

It couldn't , as it is not corporate. There's no professional management people or anything. Businesses are not like a set of wheels that you wind up and then watch you gotta be active.

Also I've never been the sort of guy to just do nothing. I like working if I add some value to the thing I'm doing. Self satisfaction.

What are your margins? I'm very curious to know what your sweaters usually retail for.

On average they would be 25 to 30% I guess?

Is there any way to fix a sweater that has a snag?

Of course. Easy thing with one needle. (The type our machinery use)

Thanks for doing this. Was in Istanbul last year, nice city. Is there software that could take the business to the next level (for example inventory management)?

There sure is. There are numerous things to look into. Such as computirizing the entire manufacturing process with barcodes and RFIDs that would make entire process much more efficient. It's just that I'm new and inexperienced so I don't want to jump to instant conclusions. I see huge potential in the long term tho

Is here a way to hang a sweater from a clothing hanger without stretching out the cloth where the ends of the hanger are?

Velvet hangers. Or we stitch ribbons to inside part of shoulders of our sweaters and put those ribbons over the hangers. Don't know if it makes sense but I hope I managed to get it through.

How often should you wash/dry clean sweaters?

Just follow the instructions that you'd find with it. (Washing label) Depends on where you wear it and how often you wear it obviously but one wors of advice is don't wear the same sweater two days in a row. Most keep static electricity and wearing them often especially consecutively could expedite peeling.

How did you come to get an offer from Boeing? Did you apply? If so, why, if you had no intention of accepting? Or, is Boeing recruiting finance majors at Turkish colleges?

I was just back from my exchange program in SF and over the summer I saw the job application in an email sent by my university's career email. I applied, I was missing my life in the US back then. 3 months later they called for a phone interview, then a couple of months after that there was the actual interview. I was indecisive by then hoping they'd reject. I had to stop going to college for a semestr and go work there for 6 months as a full time intern (paid, great money too) then come back and finish college. That too contributed in my rejection and that I'd probably go back to the US after another 6 months spent working there. Funny thing is I was probably the first to reject as they select 3 people in Turkey from ~200 interviewed.

How much do those machines cost? Are they like printers but with knitting? Can I print an official legal document as a sweater?

They are pretty much like printers. Yarn goes in piece of fabric (fully fashioned in our case) comes out. Designs are drawn from the computers with special software to communicate designs to the machines. One of them unused would cost around 30K euros.

When did you start to learn the business and what is your current role? Why did you feel like this was your life's calling? My father owns an upholstery business and has top notch clients he works for. I'm also in college right now majoring in engineering, but I don't know what path to take right after college. Any advice you can give to me? Much appreciated

I've been in this as long as I was conscious as it was in the family. I was going there to work part time (no real responsibilities) over summer holidays starting from high school. That's about 8 summers meaning 24 months but not real responibilities. So I'd say I've always known it yet I'm still learning.

What kind of advice do you have for someone looking to buy a sweater? Is there a certain material that has some pro or con? Are there different levels of 'bang for your buck' in terms of material or manufacturing style? Is there a brand you personally appreciate or a style or material you find suits you?

Measures of quality when it comes to sweaters, in the industry, is really stuff the end user would never notice. Like the quality of the stitching that is always inside (you never see them) whether the garment was bound-off or overlocked whether they are fully fashioned, have raglan etc. End user mostly cares about the fit and texture. So I'd say just try it on and get the feel of the sweater, make sure you're comfortable with it. The other problem is peeling, usually short fibres are bound to peel and yarn manufacturers have peeling labs where they can asses a point etc. but that is the subject of a yarn maker's AMA. :)

have you guys made sweaters for Bill Cosby?

Never had the privilege unfortunately.