IamA technician who disposes of nuclear materials at a national lab. AMA!

In your opinion, is there an irrational fear of nuclear power in society due to the widely known possible disasters? Should we be able to comfortably invest in nuclear power, or is it just another wasteful way of destroying the planet?

I think its something that is a hell of a lot better for the planet that burning coal.

Just look up the injuries and deaths related to nuclear power versus the coal industry.

Coal kills a LOT of people. The nuclear industry has a safety standard that is second to none. But the average person has a visceral reaction to "nuclear power" that is currently preventing us from making use of this energy source.

I personally think (and this is a non professional opinion), that the solution in the immediate future is nuclear as a baseload, and renewables such as solar and wind as a supplement.

Every method of energy is consuming resources of our planet. As a technological society, we're going to consume it. I think we should do so responsibly and efficiently, as not to use it without purpose.

Can I have some nuclear material? (Just kidding, NSA, clam down)

Yes. Go buy a bunch of bananas. There is radioactive potassium in them. :)

How exactly safe is the stuff you handle? How is it sealed? Do you ever fear the side-effects?

Thanks for doing the AMA BTW.

If there was no protection? The transuranics that we handle are highly radioactive. But the facility, despite being old, is extremely well shielded.

Much of our work takes place through 3 foot thick windows filled with zinc bromide solution, and we have remote manipulators to perform the work. We do absorb a lot of dose, but its never been anywhere close to dangerous levels.

When the fuel is loaded in the cell, its placed in a lead container (we call them lead pots). Its a 1 gallon cylinder. That is placed in a 7 gallon can, with a apparatus to ensure its centered in the can (called a spider). This entire process is required to be filmed, and have two witnesses besides the tech doing the work. Its sealed, and then two of those cans are passed through a drop chute into a larger 30 gallon can in a clean transfer area (this passes from inside the cell to the outside). The 30 gallon cans have two layers of plastic, a hard layer and a soft layer. These are also witnessed by two people to ensure our paperwork is straight.

Then, the 30 gallon can is dose rated, and either put in to a steel cask, or a lead cask, depending on the dose rating (the lead ones are really annoying, due to being too heavy to drive around on our electric lifts... we have to use a manual one, and muscle it into place. Major pain the ass).

Once they're sealed in the casks, we transfer them to the waste mechanics. After that, I'm not involved in the details.

When we around dangerous things we become kind of desensitized to the dangers we are at. How does this affect you in your work place.

Also what PPE is required for that work, I know what it takes me to unload an acid or caustic truck I can only imagine the suits for radiation.

During normal operations, we just wear lab coats and shoe covers. If we're doing transfer work, its a full Tyvek suit with a respirator and gloves. Taped up all openings, etc.

Its mostly to ensure that in case something goes wrong, we won't be directly contaminated, and we can just strip it off, and be fine.

Honestly, the transfer area is absurdly clean of contamination. I'd not be afraid of going in there in normal clothes, eating a hamburger while sitting on the floor. The controls in place are very extensive.

Wow, I have to wear more for unloading a truck than you do to play with uranium. That my friend is a trip, and your space sounds air conditioned and well lit, mine is outside 110℉ heat baking in a Gumby green rubber suit respirator and eye pro, hardhat is mounted inside the Gumby suit, steel toe and flame retardant clothes on underneath. Geeze I'm in the wrong gig.

Well, remember that my materials are really only dangerous if we breathe them in or swallow them. I imagine yours are dangerous to get on any part of you.

The A/C is pretty crap in the summer... sucking rubber for an hour, and you end up dropping some water weight. I'm sure you're familiar with that.

Try running stairs in a respirator. Talk about sucking wind, might as well be breathing through a coffee straw. I hate respirators.

Man, my chief uses the filter respirators, but I can't stand 'em. I use the ones with the built in fan, so at least I don't have to work that hard breathing. Plus, slight breeze on my face.

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Right now, I believe most of our shipments are to WIPP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_Isolation_Pilot_Plant

There are others, but I'm not involved with the shipments after they leave the door of our facility... there are waste mechanics on site that process the casks for shipment elsewhere. On site, we have an old test reactor, and the casks are stored there behind the reactor shield until they're shipped off site.

I read about the WIPP before, and the "message to the future" thing was really interesting. Do you have a view on it? How should we tell future generations don't dig up the stuff there for the next 10000 years?

That is a bit above my level, but I'm at least pleased they're thinking about the problem.

I personally think we should reprocess the waste and get the good non-burnt fuel out of it, but apparently Congress disagrees.

I fucking love this comment. We could do so much, and yet we are too stubborn to do anything.

I have learned from my chief that is not congress, but due to the terms.of the nuclear non proliferation treaty. TIL.

What specifically do you do to dispose of the waste?

Everything from paperwork, to prepping the materials for shipment (much of it has to be size-reduced to fit in the containers). Moving the cans around inside the cell, doing outloads, repair work (lots of this, its old and things break a lot). I'm also doing a rebuild of our battle bot. (little robot we are going to use to clean the hard to get corners).

I have what is known as a "lead pig" that my father bought for me off of eBay. (The sort of thing he buys for me.) Two of them, actually. They weigh maybe 30 lbs total.

Aside from not quite knowing what this much solid lead, I was wondering if there are any safety precautions I should take. I don't handle the lead for obvious reasons, but I've sometimes wondered if it was once used to handle toxic or radioactive substances. I've assumed that if I keep them out of reach and don't handle them then there isn't any real hazard (after all, the point of them is that they contain hazards), but I thought I would run it by you since you were here! One of them I painted (to avoid atmospheric lead) and used as a door-stop for awhile. A problem?

You should be fine, I would think. If that was released from a facility, there is probably at least three or four sheets of paperwork needed to do so. Or it was never used for work (I think this is more likely... I can't imagine a used container being free-released).

If you're worried, I'm sure somebody at the physics department at the local university has a meter so you could be sure. I very much doubt its in any way dangerous (except just, you know, being lead).

Non official opinion, of course.

I worked at the NTS for 5 years during atmospheric nuclear weapons testing. And then I worked for 3 years at the NRDS (nuclear rocket development station ((for deep space exploration)))

I once took a 10,000 R/hr reading with a hand held ion chamber (Jordan Rad gun) My hand took about 12 Rem in about 6 seconds.

Those were the good old days.

Thats gotta make your asshole pucker. Never seen anything remotely like that.

How many people do you work with? Does this sort of job require a big team and lots of man-hours or is it more of a one man job?

We've got two chief techs, and 5 techs working right now, and we're interviewing for a sixth.

Decent sized team. And there the ops managers and whatnot above us.

My sister interned at Argonne and we stayed in the guest houses there. It's really creepy with all the steam pipes. Everyone was super serious and stern. Did not like it.

I would imagine it would depend on where you're at, and what department. I mean, we as technicians tend to laugh it up a lot when we're not doing the transfers, but when we do, the game faces come on.

But I can see that. Its an old facility, and some of the buildings are a little rough around the edges.

Do you fear the impact your job may have on your health?

Nope.

http://xkcd.com/radiation/

We track our dose in milirem, but its easy to convert. Our yearly dose limit is 10 mSv. I know radiation tends to scare people, but its really not as bowel-shockingly dangerous as most think

Do you track your exposure dose by TLDL or a resettable pocket dosimeter?

Both. We have digital meters that we track daily dose with, and a monthly TLD (well, two of them, we also have a extremity dosimeter for our hands, its what we call our ring of power).

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Local, as per our operations procedure. I believe 5 R (or 50 mSv) is the hard federal limit for normal operations.

I think in the past, our limit was actually higher due to the work, but right now, its 1000 mrem.

Okay, serious question. What's the most highly radioactive item you have felt with in the lab?

Well, I never handle it directly. Even when we wheel the casks out, its got quite a bit of shielding between me and whatever we're moving.

I know that the smaller cans, if we get a reading higher than ~60-70 R/hr, we have to call to get permission to load it into the large drum. And for really spicy items, we have to get the lead casks, vice the steel ones we normally use. (yes, we do call screamingly hot items "spicy meatballs". I think I watched The Mask right before I started this job).

That kind of radiation, unshielded for an hour, would cause radiation sickness. Remember, our YEARLY dose limits are 1000 mrem/yr (or 1 REM). We'd smash through our limits in a minute if we stood next to a 60 R/hr item. So we've got very effective shields.

tl;dr: Go lead shielding.

Since Fukushima, I've been trying to get my head around the different radiation measurement systems... Am I right that 1 REM = 1 / 100th of 1 Sievert? Or is this one of those "well... there's effective biological dose, and then there's the mathematical actual dose, and then there's another kind of thing nobody who didn't go through the Navy nuke school can actually understand" kind of things? Sounds like REMs and Sieverts are oranges and oranges, whereas there's a totally different meaning to the gray. maybe?

Is there an easy way for laypeople to understand these different units?

They're equivalent. 100 REM is 1 Sievert.

Argonne is just old school, so we still use R and mR.

Sieverts and Rem are measurements of radiations effects on the human body.

Grays is more about the raw energy of the radiation. But radiation has different effects based on what type it is, and what its hitting.

Sieverts and Rem take that into account. Or so I understand. I'm by no means a health physicist or a physics doctorate.

Did you save some nuclear materials instead of disposing them off? Is there where you pull your 'it's classified' card?

Nope. All materials that are in the cell are going away. Most of them already have (there is very little fuel materials left, but plenty of other crap that is just contaminated and needs to come out).

Did you lose your hair from the radiation?

edit: and have you tried the build your own stirfry in the cafeteria yet?

Haha, no. Combination of stressful school and boat life (I started losing it at age 21, which I thought was rather unfair at the time).

I shave it, because otherwise I look 15 years older.

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Haha, don't worry about it. I got over it years ago... roughly when my gf and two of her friends spent a good 30 minutes rubbing my head and cooing. :)

[deleted]

To be fair, that was roughly six years ago, and I was in fantastic shape. Your mileage may vary. :P

ANSWER THE QUESTION OP!! OR ARE YOU TRYING TO HIDE SOMETHING ABOUT NUCLEAR BUILD-YOUR-OWN-STIRFRY??????????????

I don't eat at the cafeteria, so I dunno. :)

Maybe I should give it a try?

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No. Absolutely not. Its a economic disaster, not a human disaster. It'll cost a lot of yen to make it right, but its no threat to anybody no in the immediate area (much like any other industrial accident).

FUKUSHIMA THREAD!

1] Where do you think the Fukushima cores are?

2] How do you think we will end up getting them out and stored?

Thanks and good luck in the Hot Cell!

The cores? They're inside the reactor buildings. I understand they're deformed, but they're not going anywhere.

I imagine very carefully, very slowly, and with a lot of remote equipment. I understand the same company that made our robot is making stuff for that area as well.

Disclaimer: I'm not speaking about Fukushima in any official capacity, and certainly not speaking for the Lab in any capacity.

The cores? They're inside the reactor buildings. I understand they're deformed, but they're not going anywhere.

Can you provide any proof of that ?

Is that your opinion or do you think it is a fact. If it is a fact can you provide a source for that information ?

I imagine very carefully, very slowly, and with a lot of remote equipment.

At your job you are working with remote equipment that is mechanical or electro-mechanical ?

Do you know what are the problems with electro-mechanical equipment in radioactive environmental ?

I understand the same company that made our robot is making stuff for that area as well.

How it is shielded from radiation ?

Also, does it work remotely ?

• Valery Legasov (first deputy director of the Kurchatov Institute of Atomic Energy in Moscow) said, in 1987, "But we learned that robots are not the great remedy for everything. Where there was very high radiation, the robot ceased to be a robot—the electronics quit working."*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

Disclaimer: I'm not speaking about Fukushima in any official capacity, and certainly not speaking for the Lab in any capacity.

Can you take a look at the data from fukushima here

http://enenews.com/

http://fairewinds.org/

And tell us your opinion. Please ?

Also, they were using MOX in fukushima

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOX_fuel

Of course I can't provide proof. Honestly, its a stupid question, so I'm going to give you a stupid answer. Do you have any proof its gone anywhere? Do you think its bored a hole to the center of the earth, and we will soon have a new volcano erupting there? C'mon man.

We use a remote controlled robot, that runs off a cord. The electronics are all outside, the only things that are inside are wires and motors. This helps cut down on the damage that can occur from radiation. For applications in extreme areas, I imagine they'll have to harden it a great deal. Which can be done, but just makes it more expensive (they design satellites to pass through the Van Allen belts on every orbit, so it can be done).

Those two sites, they look like standard anti-nuclear sites. And, yeah. I saw the headline "MAXIMUM RADIOACTIVITY OVER HAWAII" and I honestly tuned out. I can't let my blood pressure go high this early in the day.

It sounds like you're an apostle for this kind of thing, so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you, but I will say this:

Fukushima appears to me to be a rather nasty industrial accident. It is not happy fun time at all. It needs to be cleaned up, and it will cause issues in that area for a while (like any industrial accident). It is not causing a massive floating wall of radioactivity that will destroy the Pacific ocean. It is going to cost the people of Japan and probably the world a lot of money to clean it up.

Of course I can't provide proof. Honestly, its a stupid question, so I'm going to give you a stupid answer. Do you have any proof its gone anywhere?

This is from 2011 (official tepco)

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/nu/fukushima-np/images/handouts_111130_04-e.pdf

They say there has been meltdown and part of the core is core catcher. How long can core catcher keep the core inside the building ?

And that core is from MOX fuel. And there is steam coming out of the building...and can you explain me this how high is 1,370 microsieverts per hour ?

http://enenews.com/nhk-inside-fukushima-highest-radiation-between-pacific-ocean-reactor-3-1370-microsieverts-hour-tour-video

You are using rems.. is 0.137 rems high radiation level ?

Do you think its bored a hole to the center of the earth, and we will soon have a new volcano erupting there? C'mon man.

No, it is not possible, Fukushima is made on sea shore. It will not bore a hole to the center of the earth. It will hit the water much sooner and then all the material from the core will go up in the air in steam. When something hot (core) hits the water then steam is produced.

Something like volcano but with water not lava

We use a remote controlled robot, that runs off a cord. The electronics are all outside, the only things that are inside are wires and motors. This helps cut down on the damage that can occur from radiation. For applications in extreme areas, I imagine they'll have to harden it a great deal. Which can be done, but just makes it more expensive (they design satellites to pass through the Van Allen belts on every orbit, so it can be done).

Yes, it can be done on satellites. It is done with gold plating. Gold is dense (lets say it like that). It can not be done with robots that have to move around the building. That is the problem. And that is the reason you have electronics outside. They can not even put a camera in the building.

Those two sites, they look like standard anti-nuclear sites. And, yeah. I saw the headline "MAXIMUM RADIOACTIVITY OVER HAWAII" and I honestly tuned out. I can't let my blood pressure go high this early in the day.

British government officials approached nuclear companies to draw up a co-ordinated public relations strategy to play down the Fukushima nuclear accident just two days after the earthquake and tsunami in Japan and before the extent of the radiation leak was known.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/jun/30/british-government-plan-play-down-fukushima

I do understand this sites are not best..but they do have information. I would give you better sites but as you can see..there is PR campaigne to cover up what is going on

Fukushima appears to me to be a rather nasty industrial accident. It is not happy fun time at all. It needs to be cleaned up, and it will cause issues in that area for a while (like any industrial accident). It is not causing a massive floating wall of radioactivity that will destroy the Pacific ocean. It is going to cost the people of Japan and probably the world a lot of money to clean it up.

I understand all of that. I would probably say more or less the same.

now, you are working in specific industry and have better perspective on the subject than most of the people. You have worked on navy reactors and they are more or less the same as mark 1 GE that is used in fukushima. I do understand that sites that I have provided are...strange, to say it at least. I am sorry for that and I do understand they are..strange..But, there is active PR campaign to suppress information about fukushima. You have enough knowledge to go over information to go over information and know what is truth and what is not truth. I would like a second opinion. You know enough about subject to understand it.

If you want a nice easy to read overview of radioactivity in Sieverts:

xkcd.com/radiation/

So 1.370 mSv is not something you want to live in, but its also not anywhere near danger levels. I've worked in zones like that. Its definitely high, but not to the "OH FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK" level of radiation. Work controls, and planning would be required to work in that area.

And of course it can be done with robots. I'm planning on installing lead plating on my battlebot so I don't have to replace the relays every four months.

Its an engineering problem. It can be solved (and its only a matter of money and resources devoted the solving the problem).

And to find out a private company is engaging in a PR campaign to downplay their screwups? Shocking. I've already said that I'm not impressed with TEPCO, but any industrial setting that is mismanaged is going to be bad news. Not a problem unique to the nuclear industry.

I'm not familiar with the construction of core catchers. The reactor I operated, I was told if we melted it down, the fuel would pool on the floor of the RC and it would sit there and the decay heat would be removed through the submarine hull to the water surrounding it.

I'm not an expert in metallurgical science by any means, but considering the core catcher concept is suppose to be for a catastrophe, I imagine its designed to hold out for an extended period of time. I also, for what its worth, can't find any sources that say Fukushima has one. I did a 30 second google search, so take it for what its worth.

And of course it can be done with robots. I'm planning on installing lead plating on my battlebot so I don't have to replace the relays every four months.

What about tungsten ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten

it is better then lead.

Its an engineering problem. It can be solved (and its only a matter of money and resources devoted the solving the problem).

Well, I am (kind of) engineer and I have not solved this one. And I do have quite a bit of background in robotics and computer science.

And to find out a private company is engaging in a PR campaign to downplay their screwups? Shocking. I've already said that I'm not impressed with TEPCO, but any industrial setting that is mismanaged is going to be bad news. Not a problem unique to the nuclear industry.

I am not shocked. It is more or less usual practice. only problem with this is there is no reliable data to go over it.

I'm not familiar with the construction of core catchers.

It is more or less a couple of meters of reinforced concrete. Like this

http://us.arevablog.com/wp-content/uploads/05_Unit1-Nuclear_Island-Parts_of_the_core_catcher.jpg

It is all well and nice if there is small leak. It is not designed for a situation where the core leaves reactor pressure vessel. It is just not designed for that

The reactor I operated, I was told if we melted it down, the fuel would pool on the floor of the RC and it would sit there and the decay heat would be removed through the submarine hull to the water surrounding it.

This is for the small breach. If the core leaves reactor pressure vessel..well, there is nothing you can do. Than it just melts everything in front of it until it hits water.

I'm not an expert in metallurgical science by any means, but considering the core catcher concept is suppose to be for a catastrophe, I imagine its designed to hold out for an extended period of time.

A core catcher is made from a special concrete ceramic to prevent material from trickling through; it also a cooling mechanism to cool down the core material

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_catcher

It is designed to hold for extended period of time. It has been 3 years (almost 4). That would be more than extended period of time

I also, for what its worth, can't find any sources that say Fukushima has one. I did a 30 second google search, so take it for what its worth.

It does, Fukushima is the same design as are U.S. nuclear power plants made by GE

General Electric-designed reactors in Fukushima have 23 sisters in U.S.

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/03/13/6256121-general-electric-designed-reactors-in-fukushima-have-23-sisters-in-us?lite

also

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fukushima-mark-nuclear-reactor-design-caused-ge-scientist/story?id=13141287

Tungsten is expensive. Lead is not. And hell, we determined it would be cheaper to just replace the relays in my battlebot instead of trying to line the control box with lead.

Oh, one thing that you may not understand. A reactor, in order to maintain the reaction, depends on a fairly specific geometry. I was told in our reactor physics classes that a meltdown would destroy such geometry, and it wouldn't end with a self-sustaining mass, due to the way they load fuel poisons and whatnot.

So yeah. The only concern they have for Fukushima is removing the decay heat (the energy generated by the fission products decaying to more stable forms). And I imagine since its a few years later, the amount of decay heat is a tiny fraction of what it was. So I'd say if the fuel hasn't burned its way through whatever containment yet, its not going to.

Oh, one thing that you may not understand. A reactor, in order to maintain the reaction, depends on a fairly specific geometry. I was told in our reactor physics classes that a meltdown would destroy such geometry, and it wouldn't end with a self-sustaining mass, due to the way they load fuel poisons and whatnot.

Yes, I have read the same information. It has something to do with the position of fuel rods in reactors and control rods. Something like that.

This is the reason I am asking you all this questions. SCRAM is over in 48 hours. There is heat and steam and level of radiation is raising. That would mean there is still some kind of process going on. All indicates it is reaction. As you said..this would not be possible because of reactor design. also, there were reports of neutron beams. That would also indicate there is reaction going on.

http://science.time.com/2011/03/30/has-fukushimas-reactor-no-1-gone-critical/

So yeah. The only concern they have for Fukushima is removing the decay heat (the energy generated by the fission products decaying to more stable forms).

But from where is heat coming from ? They can not enter the building..TEPCO does not know what is going on. And reactor should have been cold a long time ago. We are talking about 3 years (almost 4).

And I imagine since its a few years later, the amount of decay heat is a tiny fraction of what it was. So I'd say if the fuel hasn't burned its way through whatever containment yet, its not going to.

It is not a tiny fraction of the original heat now. It should be. And sometimes heat is raising

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fukushima_I_Unit_3_RPV_Temperature_March-May_2011.svg

I understand what are you talking. I have read (more or less) all the same information. Reactors are not behaving as they should have behave in this situation. And, all that information in manuals is made on assumptions. This is real life situation and there are obviously differences.

I have read manuals and literature on the subject. This reactors are not behaving as they should. I can not explain it..I do not know anybody who can explain it to me. You are the person who can (maybe) explain it. I literally do not have anybody else to ask.

And, as you said those sites are anti-nuclear and I do know that but there is nobody else writhing about it.

That temperature graph is from 2011.

And it actually bears out what I'm saying. The concern with immediate decay heat removal is that you want to prevent structural damage. This requires some very high temperatures (thousands of degrees).

While 200 degree fuel isn't thrilling, its also not hot enough to burn through the structures that are designed to handle heat far in excess of that.

I wish you were right.

Well, I am. The amount of stupid commentary and misinformation spouting on that incident literally makes my blood pressure go up.

May I ask your qualifications to comment on nuclear contamination issues?

[deleted]

I'm not unhappy with how much I get paid. :)

And well... for the future, there are a lot of older facilities around the country that are going to need this kind of work to be done.

So I imagine that I'll be gainfully employed in this area for a while, if that is what I want.

Very cool. I don't think you've already answered this, but: The work you're doing at Argonne right now - what are you decommissioning? A reactor or something or just removal of stored materials?

Its a facility called the Alpha Gamma Hot Cell (there is a Youtube video about us putting our giant robot in the cell).

It was used for metallurgical experiments on new and used fuel elements for years. But its old, and its crapped up, and I think they want to demolish the building. So it has to get cleaned up and everything. At this point, we're literally waiting for paperwork so we can relax criticality controls. (we basically have next to no fuel left in the cell, but there is plenty of stuff that is just crapped up that has to be safely removed).

Alpah Gamma Hot Cell robot video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvWUicPSc3s

[ps nice futuristic name]

Yep, that was prior to me being on project, but I work with those guys.

INL? I'm there getting the waste out of Idaho!

Edit: Sorry, didn't read the elaboration in your post. Argonne...we have some of your waste, at least! :D

Yeah, I think we've shipped some stuff to you (I mean, we call the casks INL casks).

[deleted]

Look up the difference between ionizing radiation and non ionizing radiation. Radio waves like microwaves and cell phone transmissions are non ionizing, which means they do not cause radiation damage to living tissue.

TL;DR: Your science oven will not give you cancer.

This. A lot of people (including my own parents) who know nothing at all about radiation tend to spout bullshit taught by their own parents, like how microwaves cause cancer, or that nuclear power is the worst thing since Hitler. Tell your father to learn some more on the subject. It is, after all, freely available to anyone looking for it on the internet.

This. This is the reason people spew dumb shit like Fukushima is making the Pacific ocean uninhabitable, and California is next (its not. At all).

People don't understand, and what is more, they won't listen a lot of the time. When somebody tells me they can't trust what I say on the subject "Because you're one of them", I just shake my head and go away before I blow a blood vessel in my temple.

This. This is the reason people spew dumb shit like Fukushima is making the Pacific ocean uninhabitable, and California is next (its not. At all).

Tell me your honest opinion. If you would dump in pacific ocean every day 400 tons of radioactive water

NYTimes: 400 tons of highly radioactive water going into Pacific each day from Fukushima plant, says Tepco — Top Nuclear Regulator: This is a crisis

http://enenews.com/nytimes-400-tons-of-highly-radioactive-water-empty-into-pacific-each-day-from-fukushima-plant-top-nuclear-regulator-this-is-a-crisis

Could that make pacific ocean uninhabitable ?

For 3 years...

People don't understand, and what is more, they won't listen a lot of the time. When somebody tells me they can't trust what I say on the subject "Because you're one of them", I just shake my head and go away before I blow a blood vessel in my temple.

I am listening. Tell me what do you think is going on in fukushima and please tell me why do you think that.

As the water boiled away in the reactors and the water levels in the fuel rod pools dropped, the reactor fuel rods began to overheat severely, and to melt down. In the hours and days that followed, Reactors 1, 2 and 3 experienced full meltdown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster_(Unit_3_Reactor)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster_(Unit_2_Reactor)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster_(Unit_1_Reactor)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster

Fukushima radiation levels underestimated by five times - TEPCO

http://rt.com/news/fukushima-radiation-levels-underestimated-143/

TEPCO has revised the readings on the radioactivity levels at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant well to 5 million becquerels of strontium per liter – both a record, and nearly five times higher than the original reading of 900,000 becquerels per liter.

http://rt.com/trends/fukushima-nuclear-disaster/

As said elsewhere, its not happy fun time over there. And I'm not impressed with TEPCO. But as cyperpunks pointed out, 400 tons of water into a body of water the size of the Pacific Ocean.

Literally, you're not just pissing on a bonfire, you're pissing on the western forest fires. Yes, its not a GOOD thing that the water is going into the ocean, but its also not really changing things much. Don't go swimming 200 feet off the coast of the area.

Literally, you're not just pissing on a bonfire, you're pissing on the western forest fires. Yes, its not a GOOD thing that the water is going into the ocean, but its also not really changing things much. Don't go swimming 200 feet off the coast of the area.

I understand that. I does not bother me too much. The thing that bothers me is that tepco is continuing to spill that water. And that means that reactors are not shutdown. Reactors have melted..and that is not a good thing. And when reactors melt down...how do you stop them ?

Because, core catcher is not going to hold them forever..and SCRAM lasts for 48 hours. It has been 3 years and they are still pumping water. That means reactors are hot..and that means they have melt down..and then..only question is if the reactors are going to cool down or hit the water first after they burn through core catcher. What do you think ?

The reactors are shut down. If they were not, we'd have a much bigger issue.

SCRAMs lasts for 48 hours? Where on Earth did you get that idea.

A SCRAM is dropping the control rods into the core. It shuts it down completely, and to start the reactor again, it requires they be pulled quite a bit out to get a reaction going again.

The reactors are shut down. If they were not, we'd have a much bigger issue.

If they were shut down why are they pumping water inside ?

SCRAMs lasts for 48 hours? Where on Earth did you get that idea.

On the internet ? Well, it does not lasts 48 hours but after 48 hours reactors are cold enough that they can circulate water by their own power. Anyway, first 48 hours power plant needs to be on outside power. I could be wrong ? Am I wrong ?

A SCRAM is dropping the control rods into the core. It shuts it down completely, and to start the reactor again, it requires they be pulled quite a bit out to get a reaction going again.

Yes, but when you are doing SCRAM you have to be connected on outside power source or backup generators. In fukushima they did SCRAM without outside power source and tsunami wiped out backup generators. And when you are doing SCRAM you can not use power generated from reactor for cooling. They were doing SCRAM without outside power source and without backup generators.

You did not know that ?

On a loss of control power, the rods drop. Literally, they're spring loaded so it happens.

And you can't bring them back up without power. So yes, a SCRAM is a condition that is static until the operators change it.

You may be confused as to what a SCRAM is. A SCRAM is when you release the rods, and they are dropped into the core. By gravity, usually. It causes the reactor to be immediately subcritical (and standard US design is set so the most reactive rod can be stuck all the way out, and the reactor can still shut down).

That is all it means.

What caused problems there is that the decay heat (the fission products decay, and that generates heat that must be removed) was not able to be removed due to the power failure. This caused fuel element failure and a meltdown. The reactor was not running at this point.

Other than explaining as the other replies have, no. It sounds like he has a conceptual error.

Do you have any tips on how to steal some nuclear material?

I don't recommend shoplifting bananas, but I suppose you could.

What do you think of thunderf00t's Fukishima series?

I got thirty seconds in, and realized his background was a bullshit image that alarmists have been using for the last year or so.

So basically, he openly lied in the first thirty seconds, so I don't give a shit what else he has to say if he's going to be that deceitful before he even starts opening his mouth.

Keep watching. The creator of the video debunks everything that fool says.

Oh, haha. I missed the first image when I was loading it up.

Nice. Very nice.

And somehow, if you have a British man do it, it appears to be 10 percent more awesome.

If anybody sees this and wonders about Fukushima, please watch that video it its entirety.

He's done a whole series on this. Good watch for anyone who wants (or needs) information on Fukishima, and what actually happened.

Yeah, I wish the guy who just said I was a corporate shill would watch that. But you can't really fix stupid, as the Reverend Ron White once said.

I'm actually surprised that it took almost a day for me to be accused of being a shill. I would think that I'd be better paid for that, right?

I'm studying nuclear engineering. I enjoy problem solving and design, but I feel like I would enjoy doing something more hands on, similar to what you do. How would you compare your work to, say, a job more focused on technical analysis/computation?

Also what kind of beer did you get for poker?

Well, if you're willing to do so, I'm sure the Navy would love to throw some money at you to come work for them. I'm not sure of the exact deal, but its quite generous. You'd be an officer, and you wouldn't have to get your hands dirty if you didn't want to. Having said that, the best officers I worked for all were at least willing to get into things a bit, just so they understand it better.

Oh, I got Newcastle Brown. And I won $20.

What power school class were you? What prototype did you go to?

God, I can't remember the class number, but I was in 0106M for A school. I ended up going to Ballston Spa (S8G).

I was 0204. Did you know about the chemwipe bed near the waterbrake in S8G?

No, but it doesn't shock me even a little bit.

Got any extras laying around?

I'm asking for a friend.

Standard response: Bananas. Good source of radioactive potassium. :)

How easy or difficult was getting a job after the navy?

I may not be the best example. I got out after a long shipyard session, so I was more or less saying "fuck this shit, I don't even want to think about this for a while". So I turned down more than a few sweet gigs (one was from the local nuclear plant in Iowa, they were willing to pay me 60k a year to go to school to be a senior RO. I chose to go to school for a history degree). But I'd say if you're freshly out, you should be able to score something decent.

If you are willing to go get a ME or EE degree to go with a nuc enlistment, you'll have people willing to do wonderful things to you to bring you on board. That is honestly what I'd recommend if you're 24-26 coming off an enlistment. Go get your degree, enjoy some college funtimes, and walk out of there making 90k a year. I should have, I'll tell you that.

do you mind me asking your salary? just curious

It was listed on the job listing. Its around 55k a year, assuming no OT.

What do you do when equipment break? Do you have disposers for the dispose-es?

We have various ways of moving things around inside the cell. The robot, various tracked hoists on the ceiling, etc. A few times, we've had to do some creative methods to repair things, but it was designed to be redundant.

We also have a repair area where we can hose things down and work on them through gloves. Big glovebox area. I do a lot of work there (and its also where i pick up most of my dose).

So what happens to the items that are broken and contaminated?

If it can't be repaired, it gets chopped up and put in a can and moved out like any other waste. We've got a big chop saw in the cell for general work, and a very specialized saw for sectioning fuel.

So do you get in the cell sometimes? Or is all done with the robot?

[sorry you probably described how it all works elsewhere]

Oh, hell no. Eventually, we will (or somebody will) once we've cleaned everything out... I think the walls/floors are going to be sandblasted to get all the crap that has been ground into them for the last fifty-sixty years.

But everything is done via one of the following methods:

The Robot. Big tracked guy with a manipulator arm.

The Mules: Basically a remote controlled cart. We can load things on them, and drive them around to the various stations

The manipulator arms: Each workstation has a couple arms (left and right) that you can operate from the other side (they're actually identical, so you move the master, the slave one moves. Has a grip. Rather elegantly built. Apparently, the guy who made the first one went on to start a company to supply them to us and the other labs that have hot cells).

The GM hoists. Has a hook and a manipulator arm on it, and they're on tracks on the ceiling. Can move around and put things on mules or some such.

And I'm building a little battlebot to drive around low to the ground with a vacuum cleaner to get dust and crap off the floor and in the corners. Little guy is going to be a tank when I'm done.

How are you operating the chop saw? Manipulator arms? Is it very tricky?

And I'm building a little battlebot to drive around low to the ground with a vacuum cleaner to get dust and crap off the floor and in the corners. Little guy is going to be a tank when I'm done.

Umm... please tell me you have some video of this guy!!

Chop saw is bolted down, we put whatever is to be cut in there, put a couple holding bits down to hold it, and push the saw down with the wrist of one of them manipulators.

The battlebot is somewhat less than impressive. Its very slow right now, but very powerful. I had it tooling around in the work area (its not in the cell yet) pushing around a 180 pound test weight we have.

Have you ever made a mistake while disposing any materials?

None that I've seen. But you must understand that when we do these moves, we check our work repeatedly. Two techs doing it, double check there. PIC (person in charge) checks it, does paperwork. Two visual inspectors have to sign off on it as well.

So while I'm sure its possible for screwups to happen, we've taken steps to ensure that its extremely, extremely unlikely.

Is there a specific path or requirements to begin that sort of work? I'm an open source radiation worker in the medical field, delivering isotopes to patients for imaging procedures. I was wondering if someone with my skills could transition to the laboratory side of things and away from the patients at some stage. What do you think? Thanks for doing this AMA.

Other than working in the field, no. If you have to work around radioactive materials, and deal with the controls associated with them, then you'd probably at least get an interview.

What was the most dangerous incident on-site that you have encountered?

Nothing dangerous per se. The closest thing would be when we were doing a pouch change (when we move cans from inside to outside, we have to put a new pouch on the drop chute, and then push the old one off... its sealed after the last drop). When we did that, we were getting the new pouch on, and the old one slipped off despite the o-ring.

Not a big deal, we took samples of the area to ensure there was no contamination, and moved on.

But our engineering controls are such that its not an issue. The transfer area is kept at a negative pressure with respect to the people spaces, and the transfer area is negative with respect to the inside of the cell, so we're not going to get any contamination spreading around.

We just had to get the new pouch on (which took a second), and then perform some steps to ensure the area was clean. Just slowed us down, thats all. But we do have to do all those steps to ensure its safe.

did the fukushima disaster have impact on protocols that were in place? i know in alot of countries after 'fukushima' brought back some the old anti-nuclear-facility sentiments, some countries even declaring to slowly reduce their reliance on it. How did this effect your workplace, and the general consensus of the larger population? (nearby cities, states)

It(fukushima) freaked people out, but it didn't change a thing. Our operations requirements are extremely stringent.

You guys hiring?

anl.gov

We just did some layoffs, so its rough right now. Our project is a priority, so at least I wasn't affected.

I ask because I'm getting out in about 8 months, MM on the Connecticut

As in SSN-22?

Small world. That was my old boat. I don't imagine there are any people left that I knew from back in 2005. I had heard you guys and the 21 boat were pretty much floating parts for the Carter. True?

Yup SSN-22. Sounds about right. Could be worse though.

Well, keep an eye on the job boards on anl.gov

Also, depending on where you want to live, Lawrence Livermore and/or Los Alamos might have something suited for you.

Can you sling some "materials" my way? ;-)

Buy bananas. Good source of radioactive potassium. :)

This is a long shot but I'm a biology student nearby, any opportunities to intern in research?

Also, I can see the facility up in the hills from where I live. Rumor has it you guys have some sort of nuclear substance that can wipe us out instantly, within a couple of miles of course, upon instability? Say it isn't so

Well, there are intern spots, but I have no idea if there is an appropriate one for you.

anl.gov is the site, there is a job board. Worth a shot.

There is no nuclear substance of that type on site, far as I know (and I'm not even sure what possible kind it could be to have that effect.)

What areas do you think that nuclear power needs to be improved in in order to make it the primary energy source for the world?

Education. The plants themselves are absurdly safe.

As I said in another reply... the nuclear industry has a safety standard second to none. Its just that right now, a "nuclear accident" raises such a visceral reaction from the average person that its not politically feasible.

We're totally fine with an oil sands operation that is shitting up a huge area, but the idea that we're going to fission atoms, that freaks people out.

I think as energy prices go up, nuclear power will come back, despite the tinfoil hat crowd.

My husband is an ET on the SSN758. Thanks for doing what you do!

Hey, thanks to you for supporting him. Thats not an easy role you have either. Boat life is rough for the whole family.

How much confidence do you have in the Department of Energy and the cleanup mission? (Hanford-er here).

Do you have a union of Rad Techs and/or maintenance staff, metal workers, etc that drives safety committees and requirements?

We are union, part of the machinists union. Its not super involved, but if anything, Argonne is more insane about safety than any other organization I've been part of.

As for the DOE cleanup, I can only say that I'm seeing good things in my tiny part of the process. Our reps seem to be fairly reasonable individuals that aren't out to hang us all if anything gets behind schedule.

Do you enjoy your work? Is there any specific thing that motivated you to be an nuclear electrician?

I enjoy it quite a bit. Even if my particular job isn't glamorous, and I'm not the one doing the incredible research Argonne is carrying out, I am supporting the mission of Argonne, so I'm at least part of a team that IS doing some amazing things. Quite satisfying.

SPILL SPILL LARGE SPILL IN MACHINERY ROOM UPPER LEVEL! MAN YOUR 2JV OP

Haha. I think if somebody called away a rapid reaction drill, I'd be halfway out of my bed before I remembered I've been out for almost 8 years.

Hi, I worked for a small time in the nuclear industry in France. There, by law, every worker must wear a dosimetry measuring device and dosimetry data are reported but hidden to the employer. If the annual radiation received exceeds 20 mSv, he is not allowed to get exposed anymore. Out of curiosity, is there such regulation in the US?

We get dose reports every month, and I can't imagine them saying "We're not going to tell you your dose". We also have a digital meter for daily measurements, so we have a good idea of how much we're soaking up.

Our limits are 1000 mrem (which is 10 mSv), so the French limits are actually higher. But yes, you exceed your limits, and the sky falls. We had a guy that was floating rather high last year, and I had to learn a lot of repair work because he couldn't go into certain areas or he'd run the risk of exceeding his limits, which makes a huge administrative hell for our superiors.

http://xkcd.com/radiation/

Handy chart. 20 mSv is still not a huge amount. Every limit for people is set deliberately low, to ensure there aren't any issues.

Thanks for your answer. I wasn't clear. Workers and their doctors here do get monthly reports, but their employer is not allowed to see the measurements to prevent exploitation of the nuclear workers.

Oh, I see. I misunderstood. The employers can't see that.

Thats less weird, but its also still a little weird. That makes it a little difficult to plan work if you don't know how much dose your people have, and how much they have left for the year.

But I'm sure they've got a system that works, and as long as they're tracking it and keeping the workers safe, that's good enough for me.

If a friend had made a bunch of mercury radioactive, say by slamming a high-power proton beam into it, how would they handle the resultant poisonous radioactive liquid hellmetal?

That would be what is called mixed materials. Which is hazmat that is also radioactive.

And from what I understand, its a complete nightmare. From what I understand, its separated out from the rest of the waste as much as possible, and dealt with differently. I've not dealt with any personally, so I can't really say how. But I believe that our standard destination does not accept mixed waste, and it has to go to a specialized site.

What kind of lab is this? Is it a lab meant for developing all sorts of chemical-based gear meant for helping the army and such? Or is it just your average research facility blasting atoms into other atoms to make stuff like Fl (Flerovium) and also attempting to store bulk amounts of stuff like neptunium or protactinium?

The Argonne National Lab does all kinds of research.

We have the Advanced Proton Source, used for materials research

We just put a new supercomputer online that does some absurd amount of petaflops (I think, not my area)

Materials research for energy (there is a joint project for battery research on site)

We have the ATLAS particle accelerator

And a lot more. I'm just spouting what I can remember off the top of my head.

anl.gov is the site, I'm sure there is more.

Is there not a secondary use for spent nuclear fuel? How long does a nuclear rod last?

It still has unburned fuel in it, but we'd have to reprocess it to get it out, which is currently verboten with the current laws.

A long time. But it depends on the isotope in question, but a long-ass time.

...currently verboten with the current laws.

Why? Lack of facilities? Influence from the uranium mining lobby?

Honestly, not sure. Probably inertia right now. And the fact that all things nuclear tend to freak people out.

Just remember, the average person isn't really that educated on these matters, and lawmakers are pretty good representatives of the average person.

"Radioactive waste is not dangerous if exposed to over a matter of seconds or minutes." I heard someone say this a while ago. Can you comment yay or neh?

There are three ways to reduce your exposure.

Time, distance, and shielding.

So yes, by reducing your time in the area, you reduce your dose. So yes, it helps.

Having said that, if you stood for a minute next to a 60 R/hr hotspot, you'd absorb 1 R of radiation. Which, is also my yearly limit.

So don't do that. :)

Thanks! It didn't occur to me that different waste has different radioactive levels

I'll give you a quick primer on it then...

Radioactivtiy is caused by an atom's nucleus being unstable. Usually because it doesn't have enough neutrons, or has too many neutrons. Or is just too big. There are some complex concepts about the strong and weak nuclear force I'm going to skip over.

This means that the nucleus is going to emit something to cause it to be more stable. That can be anything from just shooting off a neutron, shooting off an electron, or shooting off a couple protons and a neutron. The particle they emit is the radiation. Various atoms emit these at various energy levels. Higher is more dangerous, because they're moving faster.

Also, some atoms decay very slowly (when you hear about something having a long half-life, this is what they mean). So they slowly bleed off radiation. It tends to be less energetic, and less dangerous in the short term (because its not constantly emitting stuff).

Others decay very rapidly. Which is good, because they rapidly become non-radioactive, but while they are, they're shooting off a LOT of stuff. Can be very intense. (Iodine-131 is a great example... its very energetic, but it also decays completely away in a matter of weeks/months).

What I'm dealing with is the long term transuranics. They're not going anywhere anytime soon, so we have to make sure they're stored/transported in a safe way.

do you put nuclear shit in your ass

No, but I suggest you do so. Bananas. Make it happen. Might have to freeze them first.