IamA Lawyer Who Got Kidnapped by Furries

Am I the only one who doesn't have a fucking clue what you're talking about?

He was a non-furry lawyer who wrote a legal blog under the name BoozyBadger (or something along those lines). He wrote about some drama involving a furry convention and a sovereign citizen. After that, and based on his username, he was shall we say 'adopted' into the fandom. (Basically he became the go-to person for legal issues involving the furry fandom)

EDIT: He's using 'kidnapped' as a metaphor to imply that his entry into the fandom was not entirely of his own free will. He didn't set out to become a furry - he just sort-of got sucked in.

What legal issues do furries have?

About the same as regular people. Just fuzzier.

God I hope not.

Do you truly feel kidnapped or is it actually something you realised was missing from your life and have come to love it?

Also, when you badger a witness, is that something else now?

Me and Patty Hearst have so much in common these days. I accepted my badger-y fate pretty quickly.

I believe, by pure definition, I'm always badgering the witness now.

You obviously chose to adopt a pseudonym to write online, and that gives you greater freedom in terms of the content and style of your writing. Did you ever consider writing under your actual name, and what kind of costs and benefits do you see for lawyers in developing online 'personas' and commenting on the legal field in an arena as public and permanent as the internet?

I actually do write and present under my actual name. I chose the Boozy Barrister pseudonym for the freedom to write in a different manner, i.e. how I am in my off-time versus how I am as an attorney.

In my professional writing, I am much more sedate and professional.

The key is to make sure, anonymous or not, you don't violate any ethical standards. Anonymity is not a shield. There are several posts I've rewritten or permanently shelved because, prior to posting, I wasn't comfortable with the content and thought it was too close to call for me personally.

Not to mention, the furries (among others) can connect your BoozyBarrister and IRL identities so you aren't anonymous to anyone with a modicum of motivation anyway.

Yep. =

Do you ever ask your colleagues to look at a potential article before posting just to make sure you aren't crossing any lines?

If I have genuine questions, I do have a few people I send stuff to and run it by them to get their thoughts as well.

You've found yourself in the fandom in a very unique way.

Coming from a background that usually doesn't find itself involved with the Furry fandom-(unless they were a furry before law school)- was there anything the surprised you coming into the fandom relatively late compared to most?

Is there anything you'd like to tell curious people about it?

Nothing really surprising. Maybe how welcoming the furries are, or to some extent how happy they are to just have someone say "I get it, you guys are just people who like this thing."

Which is the same thing I guess people should know. By and large, they're just people who like the giant animal thing. It's cool. It's not a sex thing for a lot of them (but we're people so, you know, everything eventually will be a sex thing at some point), but to the extent it is it isn't a sex thing out of proportion with what I see folks doing as sex things anyhow.

So do all things that do not originate as sex things necessarily always end as sex things? If not is it still a thing, or is it something else? At what point does a thing become a sex thing? Is there a "sex thing threshold"?

I have seen art of planes with faces banging each other.

Humanity is strange.

Is there some other specialized/"dignified" profession you'd like to see a blogger get abducted by furries the way you were and witness -their- descent into fuzzy insanity? Personally I would be in stitches if it happened to, say, someone in the movie industry.

I want to see an accountant get dragged into this mess. So far I've met so many lawyers already in the furry fandom, a research chemist, multiple pilots, a commodities trader, the man who literally runs the internet for the East Coast, and more than a few academics and medical doctors.

I want a CPA to meet their fuzzy fate.

Q1 How often do you set down for a consult, only to realize you're still wearing the badger head?

Q2 what's more of a pain in the ass to renew, your law license or your rabies vax?

Q1 At this point every head is a badger head.

Q2 I hate CLES.

We all know you've been to too many conventions now to back away. Name some of the best and worst parts of your con experiences?

Best? I talked about it on the site, but it was watching a kid get stage fright at Anthrocon in front of HUNDREDS of people and run off stage. You know how if that happens in the real world, people snicker and shit. Here? Nothing like that. No laughter. In fact, the three "big name" personalities present all immediately went back stage to make sure the kid was okay emotionally and physically without hesitation.

That's a community right there.

Worst?

...People get worked up a little easier in the fandom. I've noticed that.

[removed]

I wrote about that.

Generally, I've met the guy. He's a lawyer, and he's a nice man with a big heart. I think, looking into it, it was less because he was furry and more because of general small town politics. Apparently he was always pretty open about the furry thing.

Hi this has gotten quite large and I don't know where else to ask this beside hijacking this comment.

1) I still don't understand what you mean kidnapped, do you mean you started working for them? or do they start threatening you? or were you "captured" by the fetish and found an awakening yourself?

2) You mean furries as in the fetish right? as in animated animal shit? or live action? do these furries partake in these 'live actions"?

edit: jesus people, calm your shit. I was genuinely confused.

Lord almighty.

1) Kidnapped can be used metaphorically. After making the post, it became clear that people were taking it literally. There is no edit post option, and frankly I expected this to have 20 people who knew it was coming reading it. I've tried to be clear it was a metaphorical usage, as I had no expectation that writing a post and treating furries like goddamn humans would lead to a furry following and getting drawn into talking at conventions and stuff for and with them. That's the usage of the term kidnapped, a metaphorical usage to indicate being taken by surprise at my sudden descent into the furry world.

2) I've seen no more fetish stuff associated with it than I have in any other fandom I've ever looked at.

Any chance you'd accept a mod invite to /r/amibeingdetained?

You gave us the best content the sub has had since P. Barnes.

Let's talk.

How often do local attorneys you're handling cases with know about the furry thing, and what can I do to increase the frequency of those encounters?

You know, for science.

Only two know, that I'm aware of.

So about two and a half years ago I had a minor fender-bender in a parking lot with a sovcit (with paper plates btw, "PRIVATE USE FOR PERSONAL TRAVEL" shit) and while he was obviously not carrying any insurance or even a drivers' license, he wanted me to sign a contract before he would reimburse me (in cash) for repairs to my shitty car's shitty bumper. While the whole thing was preposterous as fuck, it got me thinking: is there any kind of legal precedent that you can think of where an on-the-spot contract can be used to settle a car accident in lieu of the traditional cops-and-adjusters procedure?

You certainly can waive claims you have against a party on the spot. People are, generally, assumed to know the law.

Do you ever worry your clients will find out about your shenanigans, complain to your firm, have you fired, and get you disbarred?

Not really.

I'm careful to make sure that I don't violate ethical standards. I don't talk about client confidences, and there's nothing saying a lawyer can't have a hobby. There are lawyers out there who do much, much worse than go to furry conventions and talk generally about the law and write blogs.

Frankly, a couple of posts I wrote about other lawyers actually worried me more than anything I've done in relation to the furries, the kinks, etc. because it comes closer to an ethical line to talk about another attorney than it does to discuss legal matters generally.

If JLVD gets to keep his license, I'm not too worried about mine.

Do you own a fursuit? I don’t know much about it, but I know those can be expensive as hell.

I have what is called a "partial" made by an artist that has since become a very, very good friend. I actually went to dinner with her and her fiance yesterday.

It's literally a badger head, some fuzzy shoes, and fuzzy gloves.

I've worn it exactly twice.

How did the other people at the restaurant take your appearance?

...Considering I was wearing a polo shirt and blue jeans? Pretty well. One person said they like my watch.

Do you seriously think I walk around in a badger head?

Of course not, but it would have made the better story.

If we shouldn't take you seriously about the kidnapping thing, one would hope you could return the favor. ;)

I dunno man, seems every was clicking on this link expecting a story about how a random squad of furries kicked in my door and whisked me away for re-programming.

(Seriously, I appreciate the humor, but man...there's a reason I avoid reddit)

What furry related issue do you think will turn into important legal precedent in the future?

I think the intersection of IP protection and the "fursuit designs" could be important. Those things are unique and cost a lot of money, so I could see a dispute between a maker and a client on who actually owns the rights to the suit and its design.

On furaffinity and other furry art websites under every picture it states that the OP holds the copyright to the art piece. Does this have any legal standing if someone were to repost the copyrighted content?

Also if someone who owns a fursona commissions an art piece, does that mean that they are licensing out the design? or would they have to hold an official patent first?

That's a really interesting question. And I can answer it generally as follows, with the understanding I'm a lawyer, not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice for any specific situation, you really need to go talk to a lawyer in your area specifically about any questions you have.

No, reposting copyrighted work does not give the poster a copyright in it. The copyright goes to the creator of the piece.

The question on "owning" a fursona is different. Generally you can't "own" an idea alone in the copyright sense. Something has to actually exist for it to be copyrighted (a physical piece of art, a story, a song, etc.). As for owning a design, we'd be getting into patents.

I'm not a patent guy.

What about trademark? Can't you trademark a character design?

TRademarks are primarily for commerce, not creative, use.

As a 'Courtroom Clerk' who can sense a SovCit a mile away (and knows she's not getting her lunch when they have a court date...) that was hilarious.

Not knowing if you read up on any other fandom issues, do you have anything to say on the Christopher Handley case out of Iowa?

I haven't, but I guess I will now!

Is fur required to be a "furry", by definition? In your legal eagle opinion, would disallowing a dude in a snake suit from participating in "furry activities" be legally actionable discrimination? How about an eel suit? Just asking for....uh, a friend.

Edit: Added a missing question mark.

No it's not! There's a whole subset called "scalies" that are lizards and stuff, and then there are the "birbs" (birds) and...

...oh god, why do I know this?

Do you think LawyerSlack founder Keith-in-Real-Life is actually a hidden furry?

You know he just loves maskimals.

Where do I go to get kidnapped by furries?

No matter what they tell you, it isn't e621.

What has the biggest change to your life been since you were introduced to the fandom?

I've been calmer, or at least I've been told that. I've been generally happier, or at least I've been told that.

I'm also exhausted because producing content for 500 lawyers is a hell of a lot less intensive than producing content for 7,000 furried.

What have you seen in the fandom that you wish you didn't see?

Really? Not much.

I don't really have regrets. I have stories that come from my experiences. If I see something that bothers me, I file it away in the "story to tell later" file.

Sure, you'll see some unpleasant stuff, but I see unpleasant stuff daily away from the furries. It's hard to shock me.

That said...have you heard about the cheese grater?

You thinking of adapting a fursona?

Apparently I'm already a "motherfucking badger"

Right so I've read your blog post about why I shouldn't go to law school. My question is this, should I go to law school?

....Sure, why not. You're not gonna listen anyhow.

Would you say it was a net positive or a net negative that you got introduced to furries, given your rapid ascension to ultra-mega-popufur and somewhat polarizing (at least in the telegram chats I'm in) persona? Also, Can I buy you a drink at MFF if you're going? I'd love to pick your brain about law and such. Yours truly, a dragon

Yes on the drink.

Frankly? I try to ignore the drama. I've met some cool people and I've made some friends. If tomorrow I go back to having 500 readers that are lawyers and judges, I'm cool with that. I'll be sad, but I'm cool with that.

It's not like I woke up one morning and said "I'm gonna go become a 'popufur'"

What is your opinion on Sparkle Dogs? Can they make decent lawyers?

Only with proper housetraining.

How would you explain what a Furrie is to someone who has no idea what they are and what they do?

"You know Robin Hood? The Disney one? With the fox?"

"They really like the fox."

Have you been sought out to act as a legal retainer or advisor by any furry conventions yet? Regardless of the answer, would you be:

1) willing to assist pro bono 2) willing to assist for a reasonable rate or 3) unwilling to assist?

Additionally, have you converted any other lawyers? Furry is, after all, one of the greatest social networks out there.

Interesting question. I have not been sought out.

To be involved with anything, I'd normally have to charge. However, I did provide a bit of pro bono (and very limited) legal advice to one smaller convention already as a favor, and I already serve on the board of a couple non-profits (non-furry non-profits) and work with them.

I'm almost never willing to turn down a client.

Before you were a lawyer, did you write clickbait?

I did not. The only writing I did prior to being an attorney was I worte some pulp-y horror fiction for about two to three years for extra beer money. After joining the legal profession, it's been all briefs and motions.

How were you kidnapped? Is that you just being cheeky or were you actually kidnapped?

...TIL hyperbole doesn't come off well over the internet.

I wrote a thing about furries that didn't call them perverts and treated them like people. They enjoyed it and I found myself becoming more and more involved in the furry fandom. Now? Now there is no lawyer, only Badger.

Are these furries holding you hostage while writing this AmA?

No, I'm actually doing this because it's a slow day and I'm listening to a few CLE's today.

Do you wish you were a bird lawyer?

HAVE YOU EVER PLAYED AVIARY ATTORNEY?

Have you created a fursona and/or has someone made one for you yet?

I accidentally created my own with a throwaway joke in the first post about the furries by saying I would be a "motherfucking badger."

I am now a motherfucking badger.

Why do you act like you were kidnapped when you've accepted yourself as a part o the fandom on numerous occasions? I believe what you are saying constitutes as libel against an entire group of people?

Patty Hearst was kidnapped. Just keep that in mind.

People are often surprised that I consider myself a furry (I know you don't consider yourself as a furry per se) but working in a professional field even as nerdy as it is (developer) people often think that all furries are live at home do nothing people.

Have you ever inadvertently wound up in furry drama? I've never had problems staying out of the drama, but I'm not exactly popular; so that really helps.

Edit: furries not curries

Have you ever inadvertently wound up in furry drama? I've never had problems staying out of the drama, but I'm not exactly popular; so that really helps.

I tend to find the biggest pile of shit around and put my foot right in it.

Have you ever played the Ace Attorney series? Would you play it on stream while giving thoughts on it as a lawyer?

Totally unrelated, have you ever crossexamined a Parrot?

I have played a bit of it, but frankly I don't consume a lot of legal media except for the Film Friday posts on the site. Like most chefs don't like fixing dinner at home, I don't like watching law dramas at home.

What is your take on furries? People having fun? People with issues? What has been your experience with the furries you met? Have you dressed up as a furry?

Also, have you had sex with a furry.

Let's start with the second part first: I'm a very taken person, and accordingly have not had sex with anyone that I'm not going home to for about a decade now.

The furries are people. People are people. They have their issues and bad actors, the same as every group out there. There's really nothing that special or different about their group makeup that I've seen that you won't find in any other community.

Minus the yiff crowd though.... I mean... right?

Find me one community where there aren't people having sex.

I'll wait.

Incels

You win.

Do you feel that with most of the fandom being alcoholics helped you adapt /feel more comfortable?

Want to know a secret?

I don't drink that much. Years ago I drank very heavily, but I stopped drinking heavily a while back. I enjoy drinking, but I think I've only actually drank at two conventions.

I do have to say it is worrying to hear a young person say they feel they have to drink to fit in, but the same can be said for college. They "heavy drinkers" that are in the limelight I've met in the furry fandom are very clear that nobody should feel pressured to drink, and drinking should be part of having a good time and not the only way to have a good time.

One very hot-button issue in the fandom is the legality of drawn/rendered depictions of underage characters. What's your take on that?

You see that fifty foot pole in the corner?

That's the one I'm not using to touch that.

Other than the Sov Cit issue that started your involvement, how have the furies been to deal with compared to non-furry clients?

People are people, and clients are always more difficult than non-clients in general.

There is no random furry kidnapping squad going to houses and kicking in doors, taking you away to force you into a fursuit and never letting you leave.

I guess you haven't been to Furry Weekend Atlanta?

EDIT: For the benefit of those reading who don't get the joke, FWA is known in the furry community for being a party con where some of the crazier stuff happens.

The only time I visit Atlanta is when I'm flying Delta.

What type of law do you practice? How was law school? (Thanks from a prospective law student)

I’m a civil attorney. I don’t do criminal, family, or Personal Injury. Just your day to day lawyer.

Law school is rough. Really rough. But if you have the desire to practice law, and the ability to treat it like a job, it’s not too bad.

How did you choose the badger?

I love alliteration.

Not sure if it's your area, but regarding copyright, who would hold the rights to a character costume?

Say someone dreams up a character. They come up with everything, but for whatever reason, they can't draw it. So they commission someone else to do it. And later, down the road, they commission a costumer to make it. Or they draw it themselves, but commission the costumer to make the costume.

Assuming that the original person didn't go to a copyright lawyer and just threw money around, who, ultimately, owns the rights to the design or the suit?

It's not my area, and it is something I'm researching for a future post.

Have you ever considered doing a Lawyers and Liquor post that looks at some of the issues present between Video games and the law?

I have! However, I'd need to pick the brains of some guys MUCH smarter than I am about those areas first.

*ahem*

You and Lenny French are who I have in mind.

How do you feel about the oversexualisation of furries by some members and the resulting views on the fandom as a whole in media?

I'm not even sure it's an oversexualization by the fandom. I'll admit my knowledge was essentially "Sex animals" before hand, but I haven't seen anything out of proportion with what I'd expect to see sex-wise at any other fandom.

As I put it once, "Somewhere at a Star Trek convention, Worf is laying pipe in Picard in some room. We all know this." The furries just seem a bit more willing to acknowledge it.

As for the media presentation...sex sells. And it's certainly a strange thing for sex to sell about. At the end of the day, I say people are people and if it's happening in private, it's none of my damn business.

[deleted]

When people ask this it amazes me, because I genuinely wonder if people think lawyers just live in a small gated community interacting with exclusively each other. It's not like I only knew or talked to lawyers before now or shunned interactions with the muggles.

I haven't especially learned anything about non-lawyers that I didn't already know, having spent time as a non-lawyer myself.

Has a proclaimed "sovereign​ citizen" ever successfully pressed actual sovereign​ citizen claims in a federal court?

Define "successfully."

The fact is a lawsuit can have many different outcomes that could be considered a win depending on what the goal is in bringing it. For instance, in most Landlord/Tenant eviction defenses, you aren't going to keep the client in the house or apartment. That's not a win. But buying them thirty extra days to get out and contesting a part of the past-due rent or damages claimed by the landlord? That's a win.

So I guess the answer is "what is success in these cases for the person bringing the claim?"

[removed]

The Shrew

Ok, so what exactly happened with kidnapping??? I've never heard about this before now, I'd love to know what happened

The furries enjoyed my post.

The furries then slowly, but surely, wrapped their fluffy arms around me and dragged me into the darkness.

Have you done work with Boomer the dog in Pittsburgh? I live a few blocks from him. I remember he was on the news a while ago for trying to change his name to actually boomer the dog. I am not a furry myself but love that Anthrocon is held in Pittsburgh every year.

I have not. I'm aware of Boomer, and wrote a piece on his name change petition.

I'm a little flummoxed as to why that was denied, frankly. I don't agree with the judge's reasoning given some other name changes that have been approved out there.

What's your fursona?

I'm a motherfucking badger.

Have you converted to furry yet?

There's a badger head in my closet.

What animal do you wanna be?

One that is financially secure enough to buy a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle 23 Year the next time it comes out.

You?

You should be a corvid. They like shinies, are the most intelligent birds (debateably), wear black, are experts in bird law, are well-spoken, and when you get together with other corvids you get to make jokes about an attempted murder.

Are you talking about jackdaws?

Is Gizmo the Gremlin a good fursona or the best fursona?

Gizmo is flat out the BEST fursona but...I mean...bear with me here...

Have you heard of Telephone?

What do you use for your case management? If anything?

We don't use any case managment software at my firm. We schedule things by hand on paper calendars and a shared office electronic calendar, we bill in a separate software, and you're expected to know the status of each case on your own.

It helps I have a decent memory.

I find sovereign citizens very interesting. It almost seems like a contagious mental illness. But also, there are those rare cases like that guy in Montana who, at least on a temporary surface level, seemed to actually use the tactics somewhat successfully (though this guy lost in the end).

My question is, between SovCits, Moors, Free Men on The Land, etc, what's the strongest unorthodox legal argument you've ever personally seen or heard of? Amongst the gobbledygook are there any notable, legitimate quirks in the legal system that people have successfully exploited in this manner?

Frankly, for us we don't differentiate between any of those three. We tend to blanket them all under the same "SovCit" label because they all sort of borrow from each other in their methodology.

One of my favorite "quirks" was a case where a wife had signed the deed for a house, but not a mortgage for the same house. On death of the husband, the deed passed to her entirely by operation of law. The argument was since the property passed to her entirely, and she'd never signed the mortgage (only the husband had), she wasn't responsible for the mortgage. The court ended up agreeing the widow didn't have to pay the mortgage, and the bank couldn't collect on the mortgage through foreclosure.

As usual I'm coming in late because I'm Australian and i just got up...

Barrister? In America? I didn't know you guys used that word at all. Coming from a jurisdiction with a split profession (barristers v solicitors) and a whole different certifying authority between the two, the idea of just suddenly calling yourself that seems weird.

Also, given what barristers have to wear in court in paces where they are a specific thing, furrie culture doesn't seem too much of a stretch.

Ha! Yeah we do NOT use the word Barrister professionally. I use it as a form of alliteration, but professionally refer to myself as “lawyer” or”attorney.”

Fair enough :D

You should get yourself a horsehair wig and black robe. For science.

And watch Rake (the Australian version).

I've seen the Australian version of Rake! Amazingly enjoyable.

I like your writing style, cant put my finger on why but that doesn't matter. I think I'll check out the site some more.

Do you know of any influences on your writing style? Any kind of voice you have while writing? If so, please tell me about them.

I actually write the blog how I talk casually: disjointed as hell and rambling.

Did you get remember to get the knife under the rock?

Yep.

How do you feel about reddit's new sorting system for this subreddit that brings all questions with answers directly to the top and pushes down the most upvoted questions?

Frankly I don’t reddit that often anymore, so I was unaware of this.

Why didn't you use hijacked?

It would have been a more obvious and less distracting metaphor and we could all get down to the good work you do with your furry business.

....We both know the internet. Had I used hijacked there'd still be one guy complaining about how nobody used weapons to overtake my vessel.

There is no edit post option

Then how is that Edit 5?

We can all accept I meant to say "Edit Post Title," right? I don't need to make an Edit 6 just to address this, do I?

How did you settle on a badger as a fursona? Was it for the alliteration?

Pure alliteration.

wait, furry as in the furry fetish or ? isn't it legal already or ?

See, this sort of bothers me now, because it's so much more than a fetish. There obviously is a sexual aspect for some people, but there have been actual sociological studies done now that identify that's well under half of the folks (something like 13% are primarily motivated by sex in joining the furry fandom).

It's a fandom, sometimes innocent and sometimes obscene, just like all the other ones I've ever looked at. You can't deny there is a sexual aspect for some folks, but with my limited experience I'd hesitate to say it's a major part of it.

soooooo, Vixen or couger?

Badger.

Why would the furry community fall so hard for a lawyer?

No clue. I'm as confused by that as you are.

I've heard of you! how's the law?

Terrifyingly dull. Most offices and courts are closed today.

How much furry pussy has this netted you? Asking for a friend.

Nope.

I'm taken and faithful.

[deleted]

I...guess so?

Frankly, I expected like 20 people to read this. I wasn't really expecting it to do anything more. I'm glad I could kick off a discussion about the metaphorical and literal usage of words, though.

Did they feed anything while you are under 'hostage'?

There was pizza once. And I've become very familiar with hotel breakfasts.

And I have so many bottles of booze just sitting on the shelf now...

What are your thoughts on assault and BDSM? Does consent give you the ability to assult someone? If so, this limited only to sexual relationships. If so, what defines said sexual relationships?

Believe it or not, I wrote about this a bit back.

How many drugs are you on right now?

I took an aleve this morning because my knee was acting up. Does that count?

Not as interesting as I'd hoped but neat enough.

What's your favorite type of animal cock?

I have no knowledge of animal dicks. Except ducks. Because those are weird.

HAve you yet participated in a fur pile ?

No, but I have seen one in a hotel lobby. I was worried people had collapsed from heat exhaustion.