We Are a Team Working to Restore a Cold War Nuclear Bunker; The Only One of It's Type Left In Canada! AMA!

I went to visit the bunker last year. When I was there, I was informed that it would never again be fully operational and even if it was, it could not withstand the blast from even the smallest nuclear bomb. So my question is, is this true? Also, if it is true, why go through the trouble of making it functional if it cannot be used for anything other than tourism?

I am not sure if you were here when we had control of it or not. Regardless, to answer your questions, the facility was never designed for a direct hit. It was designed for a near miss attack. This means that if a nuclear strike were to happen within 1 1/2 miles of the facility, it would survive with almost no damage inside.

As for full operations, we are already at over 80% functionality. Some of the functions necessary for fallout like radiation scrubbers for our air systems, are not a high priority at this stage of revitalization. However, we have gotten many systems back up and working we never thought would be working again. We are 100% confident this facility could become a fully functional fallout facility with just a little more work. Without any eminent threat of being nuked any time though, we are not fully focused on those items right now.

Would like to note that this facility does have EMP shielding that would withstand any solar radiation bursts. Which is a more likely scenario this facility will provide protection against.

Will it still be available for tourists? It was one of my favourite things from my Ottawa trip last year. Also, are you keeping all the vintage shenanigans that were there?

Now that you mention Ottawa, I should note that this facility is another Diefenbunker, but the condition of it is very different. It's size is also smaller.

We are not likely going to allow continued tourist as some of our planned operations require security.

If by vintage shenanigans you mean like the control systems and boilers, and generators, the answer is yes and no. Some will be kept, and others will be updated. For example, we have plans to develop solar thermal solutions that will replace our boilers. Other systems that are still functional that we can interface with our new systems we will continue to work on. For example, we recently interfaced the old temperature sensors into a new digital display as shown in this youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQtxxBSSmlk&feature=share&list=PLvuQW_r8En0u1CA4PgNg-KxpjP6E7GVmy

We are not likely going to allow continued tourist as some of our planned operations require security.

Data centre...

The data center portion of the building is actually a building within the building. The Samson Node, as it was referred to, is a giant copper capsule basically which keeps all forms of EMP and radio signals from being able to penetrate it. At one time it handled NATO communications data. That space is small compared to the rest of the facility though, so we need to put the rest of the place to good use. Given the trends in server computing it will provide all the space and power we require.

[deleted]

Nuts. August 17th 18th is the time to be here if you decide to change your mind.

What's gonna happen on the 17th and 18th??

More public tours fundraising for the Debert Military Museum. You are welcome to them!

You said you won't care for the public later on but you want people to come and give you money now?

I don't get this.

Don't know how you equate that to not caring for the public. I don't get that either.

Wouldn't solar heaters be effected by any change in the albedo? (nuclear winter scenario)

Also, did you know n-acetylcysteine and many other antioxidants are radioprotective,

Also, did you see the 2010 film "The Road" which features a bomb shelter scene?

Likely they might. But until then they are going to do wonders for our operational costs. No, did not. Yes, I recall the bomb shelter scene, and this place is a whole lot bigger.

Who the hell would put debert nova Scotia on a nuke to do list? Is there a military base there?

Debert became a military base back during WWII. It was the staging ground for final training for Canadian forces before they took off the take down the Nazis. Its geographic location made it central for the atlantic region, and its distance from a more likely target (Halifax boat yard) made it ideal. The base now has been decommissioned though.

To be fair, it could just be a fridge from the forties.

Well we have some pretty big veggie and meat lockers in the kitchen. Feeding 350 people took a fair amount of food.

Would like to note that this facility does have EMP shielding that would withstand any solar radiation bursts. Which is a more likely scenario this facility will provide protection against.

Turn a room into a datacenter cold storage for the world's important data and charge premium for that, use the money to finish the work.

Data archiving is certainly well suited for this facility.

do the many systems include the Canadian nuclear arsenal ?.....actually thinking about it why does Canada even have bunkers who would nuke canada? even if they survived they would probably say thank you........eh

Canada played a much more frontal role in past wars. We have not found a nuke button yet though. Canada's primary weapon of choice has been polite kindness I agree.

How much has it cost since you started?

We are up to about 45,000 so far...

Bottlecaps? Or NCR Dollars?

How about Bitcoin?

[deleted]

:O

Which is about $4,309,745.15 CAD

:D Better!

Nah Bitcoin won't work post-apo. The network would be down...

Still be up here! Perhaps should keep all your bitcoins here.

So you lose it all if the previous owner wins the lawsuit?

Correct.

Can you elaborate on these 'security issues' you speak of which will lead to the closing down of tours? What will the facility be used for after it is restored?

Some of the plans have not been disclosed, and non-disclosure agreements keep us for discussing others. Current plans that have been publicly disclosed include the airsoft events, data center operations, renewable energy research and development, and product manufacturing.

The security issue would be allowing general public access to the facility. All of these operations will require and involve secure access to the bunker that will include biometrics which we believe would have privacy issues.

However, all that said, we may have events in the future where tours may be included. Those events would require a similar registration process which all attending would have to agree to.

No we are not cataloging DNA to create a mutant race to take over the world. Our research parameters won't go that far, as far as I know.

Alright, but if your research leads to unleashing a zombie plague I won't be too happy.

Good news is we have blast doors to keep it contained. ;)

Isn't this the first line in every zombie movie ever?

I umm.. errr umm.. well.. umm..

So you don't deny zombie research?

I am unaware of any current zombie research.

That's what umbrella said...

You discovered our playbook. Now if I can just get these mutant dogs to stop barking, I can answer more questions.

Whats your favorite thing in your job?

There are several of us on the team so I'll give you a few of our responses to this one.

Isaac: The history behind every door.

Justin (Electronics Tech): working with the vintage technology and power generating plant.

Colton: Being a part of the history of this place.

I thought there was another Diefenbunker in Ottawa? I visited it in highschool and it seemed pretty cool, I thought it was also a cold war era nuclear shelter?

Yes, that was a head quarters bunker. Besides that one, there were six other regional operation centers (ROCs). We are the only one that is left. All others have be 'decommissioned' in one form or another.

Was there ever one out west, in BC or AB? I know Dief the Chief didn't spend much time out here.

Yes there was. BC had one in Camp Nanaimo, and Albert had one out in Penhold. They were all pretty geographically diverse.

The one at the Penhold Base was eventually razed because the Hells Angels were attempting to buy it for their clubhouse and the thought of a standoff ever occurring was unsettling. Or so the story goes... Do you know which Diefenbunker it is that has been transformed into a super secure computer server room? I always thought that that was an ingenious use for an anachronistic landmark. Good on you guys for helping to keep history alive in Canada.

This is the one you are referring to. Though the claims that were made of its transformation were exaggerated to say the least. We found no evidence of transformation, but we found plenty of mold: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofxK4l5pWIw&feature=share&list=PLvuQW_r8En0u1CA4PgNg-KxpjP6E7GVmy <<< CBC News story about it.

CFB Valcartier's was used as a dormitory for the RCAC in the 90's. Spent a dozen of nights in there.

Yes, we had some cadets here for a time back in mid 2000.

Yep, the main Diefenbunker is in Ottawa. It is a four story bunker, almost double the size of the one we have down here. The biggest difference between the two, is that we were classified as only a provincial emergency government headquarters. And in that respect, it's the last running privately owned provincial shelter.

Is this part of the Dharma Initiative?

Not that I am aware of. There might be an opportunity for it though.

I visited this place on my grade 8 trip (7-8 years ago) and had a blast! (No pun intended) The tour guide had said that they used to store gold bars there. Is that true?

They sure would have stored gold bars inside the bunker. There are two vaults, one on each floor. The larger one on the top floor is the Bank of Canada vault. The 1300lb steel doors for the vaults were actually removed and left to sit there while the bunker was being decommissioned. We have installed the Bank of Canada vault door back onto it's hinges, and it is operational again. There is a super small safe inside of the Bank of Canada vault that could have been used for gold - or plutonium (Considering it was super expensive back in the day). Sadly we do not have the combination to that safe, and there is no way to get it open; it was designed to directly withstand a nuclear blast.

-I'll try and find a photo of the small safe tonight.

Do you ever feel that your employers may have a REASON other then superstition for buying an old nuclear war shelter?

The owner seems pretty straight forward. Being a Baha'i, he seems to have a pretty positive outlook on the future. No idea what other REASON you might be referring to. Care to elaborate?

If Hollywood movies taught me anything, it's that people who buy cold war complexes are always some sort of supervillain. Did he ever ask you things like "hmm, do you think the power system could be modified to feed a 1 terawatt deathray?"

Umm.. he did ask about fresnel lens. Should I be worried?

Can the County be sued for the costs related to their unwillingness to grant the deed as required by law?

They are aware of the risk. All of the decisions are being dictated by county lawyers who advise the county. We are now facing more legal costs, and more court time than is necessary. How lawyers could advise to go to court and drag this out for months and get paid more in the process is really surprising. Oh wait, that makes perfect sense.

How lawyers could advise to go to court and drag this out for months

The legal strategy could be to simply wear you down until you can't afford it any more.

A win by deeper pockets, rather than a legal victory in a court room.

You could be right. After getting my first legal bill we are starting to consider fund raising options to fight the battle. Our next court date is October 17th. We are planning to do another update on save the bunker later today. Right now there are tours coming through the bunker.

[deleted]

While it's privately owned, the spirit here is not really one of pure capitalism. Just trying to do something that is worthy of a place like this.

Also as far as funding goes, there is always investors. Though the owner has not entered into any agreements with several parties who have expressed interest.

I know this might sound a little far fetched but I once heard that there was a fallout bunker somewhere in Alberta that the Hells Angels had been using for large grow operations, do you think this is true?

Actually not far from what happened! Someone else posted a link to that story. Might be part of why we are the last ones standing. Guess nobody has anything to worry from a Baha'i in control of a bunker. :P

[deleted]

We are a lot of things, but not hippies I assure you.

In the event of the apocalypse, can I take shelter with you?

No you cannot. Security was mentioned earlier. However, opportunities for leasing space may come up. Interest in this is questionable though and we may not pursue it.

Is it cool down there?

Yes, it tends to stay cool. Heating it takes extraordinary amounts of fuel from the boiler. However, it never goes below 48 degrees due to the geo-thermal effect of the structure.

Ha. I mean is it very interesting to be down there? I've always wanted to see a cold war bunker. Thanks anyway.

The reality of Cold War sets in when you see all the preparation they put into trying to save lives if the nukes ever did launch.

What's the most interesting thing you found down there?

The blueprints have been fun, but we keep finding paper clippings and full papers from the 1960s that were interesting to read. Back then a paper cost 6 cents, and was a much thicker quality.

Any problems you ran into right away?

First problem was getting power going. Breakers require a 24v charge in order to hold supply. All the batteries in the place were dead. With the help of someone who used to work at the bunker when the military ran it we were able to get it up and running again. The moment power came on the first system to fire up was the compressor for the pneumatic systems and wow was it loud. We then had to turn our attention to that system right away because it had not been maintained properly.

What was up with the pneumatics?

The pneumatic pressure from the compressor was completely off from where it needed to be according to the military helper. The compressor itself had about 2 gallons of water removed from its tanks. Once we got the proper pressure going all the sensors and readouts of the various controls started to work. Well, not all. Many had been disabled, mangled, or needing repair.

Were any of you alive during the Cold War and if so was it terrifying basically being trapped between the two superpowers? I mean in the event of a nuclear war essentially all their nukes would be flying over Canada airspace.

No, all of us are younger than that. Though there are still many others who live around here who are ex-military who lived through it.

Electrical engineer and cold war historian, here. First off, nice facility! Any chance you could post more pictures of the bunker's control monitoring switchboard (the one your standing behind in your picture)? I'm interested in comparing to what I've seen in US installations. Also, are you keeping those awesome GE switchboard meters or going digital?

We like the analog of it all. We have more picture on our facebook page. We will have it all interface to a network eventually so that we can control systems from our Galaxy Tabs.

What about the Diefenbunker in Carp, Ontario?

That's our brother from another mother.

Can't believe how your local government are handling the situation, signed the petition, good luck.

Thanks Mark! Appreciate the support!

Have you ever played Fallout?

No, no time for games when we got a bunker to revitalize.

What would you consider airsoft then? Just asking.....

We run the games, we don't play them.

Do you think that, in the event of a nuclear war, these bunkers would have done much help to the initial survivors in the long run?

Yes. Eight years of engineering went into building this and other Diefenbunker facilities. These were designed for near miss scenarios. When fully operational with trained staff, this facility would have absolutely been able to operate for a sustained period of time in the event of fallout.

Is it dangerous? Is there possibly any radiation or any harmful materials in the bunker?

It was designed as a fallout shelter, not as a nuke silo. So there are no dangerous radiation materials here other than some very small samples that were used to calibrate radiation sensors. Your microwave is more dangerous than those. Environment Canada did a test on air quality in here back in 2006 and they determined the air in here was actually more clean than outside. Fun fact, the bunker only requires 1% of outside air to remain breathable for its denizens inside.

How many people can the bunker hold?

The bunker was designed for 350 people to survive. Most would have been government, and some military. Sorry civilians and women, you lose! Yes, only women in the original plans for the bunker were the Premier and the Commanders secretaries. Remember this was the 60s.

Could this also withstand a zombie apocalypse?

Yes, it is built for biological fallout as well.

How much will it cost to visit?

Tours are going on right now as a fund raiser for the Debert Military Museum. Tickets are $15 for adults, ages 4-12 half price, and under 4 free. Another tour happening tomorrow, and then another weekend in August 17 18th weekend

Right now for this weekend, we are having tours between 10AM and 2PM both today and tomorrow. Tours cost 15$, and are run by the Debert Military Museum (https://www.facebook.com/events/397474527031014/?ref=22). We will be running airsoft games almost every weekend, with some incredible missle launch and bomb props that we are working on. Tickets for the airsoft games usually run around 25$. Come on down! (This may be the last time that tours are run here because of security issues.)

Sorry if its a stupid question, I saw it on /r/airsoft that someone was restoring/using a bunker for an airsoft field? Is that you guys? I imagine bunkers aren't very common

Yes, that is us.

Cool! Thanks for doing the AMA and good luck :)

Thank you!

Ah you guys posted on r/Airsoft a few weeks ago. This will be an Airsoft site correct?

Yes, we had a game a few weeks ago that was a hit. CQB Airsoft is one activity we have going on weekends here at present. It is only one of several things going on here. Thus why it is called a 'Complex'.

Ah sounds awesome. Best of luck to you guys

Thanks!!

Why?

Why not?

I met an older fellow at the Chateau Laffayette (a bar in Ottawa for those who don't know) who claims to have walked Diefenbaker's dog. Can you confirm that he had a dog that was walked by a person whose sole job was to walk it? This guy was really drunk, but he said it with such conviction part of me wants to believe him.

We have operational logs dating all the way back to the early 1960s. However, we could not find any records of Diefenbakers dog walker. We may have to add your story to the list of Diefenbaker lore though.

No way, I was just reading about this place last night!

I was wondering, how do you handle air quality? CFS Carp has an active system I think, but that's a bigger place. If you were to just leave everything off, would you run out of air?

Secondly, did you get paid for the usage in that recent movie (forgot the title, something about nukes)? Either way, you should try to get some film makers as contacts in the future :)

No way, I was just replying to another post about the movie that was done here! :)

CFS Carp had a modern system installed, where we have all original. If you leave everything off, you can still breath, but then you start to get a lot of mold.

That low budget film was very low budget, and what we got out of it was mega small. We were just happy to help out, and maybe just maybe other better offers might come along.

How does that facility compare to Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado Springs?

This facility used to communicate with Cheyenne Mountain. Compare? Well, we got Maple Syrup.. case closed.

Canada had a cold war??

Yup, we were right in the thick of it too.

Will you guys actually actually one day show us the inside of the massive water tank? I was rather sad hat we did not get to see the inside.

We still have work to do on the sensor array in there and we do have to do maintenance, so yes, maybe one day.

Didn't some crazy old motherfucker own it for 2012?

Since the current owner is not a crazy old motherfucker, we will have to say yes.

What about the Diefenbunker out in Carp?

It's awesome! It's our brother from another mother!

Here is a photo of the engine room at the Debert Diefenbunker! I'll be adding more photos to this album as the AMA progresses if people want to see more parts of the bunker.

http://imgur.com/gallery/TgXbngU/new

you spelled its wrong

Sorry

I'm 15 and from Ottawa, I never heard the whole story of the Diefenbunker. How does it go?

If you google Diefenbunker you will find a lot. To make it simple though, Diefenbunkers are a series of bunkers that were commissioned by Prime Minster Diefenbaker back in the 1950s during the Cold War Missile Crises.

Are you Karl?

I am not Karl. But good luck finding him! :)

Will it be fully functional/stocked and be able to protect a group of people from a nuclear holocaust?

Potentially it could be. Will it be remains to be seen.

[deleted]

The guy that started this already left. Wish I knew. I am going to call sleep deprivation. He had not slept in about 30 hours. We lose track of time in the bunker.

how's the progress coming, ey?

We think it's coming along pretty good, though there is still much to do.

I clicked this thinking "please be the Diefenbunker. Please be the Diefenbunker." Was not disappointed.

Happy to please.

What is the average temperature inside the bunker?

During the summer it usually stays around 65F. In the winter it goes no lower than 48F

I don't know if this has been asked, but what is the "frame" made of? How thick are the doors and walls? How do you deal with negative air pressure, or do you? Plumbing? Communications? Cellular signals? Source of outside water, purification? So many questions.

3 foot concrete covered in nearly 3 feet of earth. Building runs in a positive air pressure when handlers are operating. Currently two fiber links. Cellular dies after you come in. Dedicated well pumps in well houses provide all the water to the facility both domestic and cooling. Purification is done through a treatment process which we plan to update.

I remember reading about the Diefenbunker when I did a report on Canada's involvement in the cold war in grade 12. is it classified as a heritage site these days?

Carp is, but this facility did not qualify for historical protection due to lack of interest a number of years ago. Petition was attempted, but not enough love.

How would you like to be set up with an honest to betsy nuclear warhead for your bunker?

Umm, don't think CSIS will like that.

Hah! The only one you're aware of

Haha.. nice one. There are a few communications bunkers still in operation actually.

There is a decommissioned diefenbunker in my town. I've been told they are a nightmare of asbestos was the reason they were shut down. Is the one you're working on any worse then your average 1960's building in terms of it or other hazards?

That is not the reason they were shut down. Back in the 80s the DND undertook and extensive asbestos remediation program. In that, they eliminated all the dangerous asbestos, and left what was not hazardous. There are still fire-boards, and asbestos floor tiles as well as insulated pipes. We have plans to eventually remove them all, even though they pose no hazard, it is likely going to be necessary eventually with the changing standards.

I've been to the Bunker in Debert. It's really cool! Are banks still storing information there now that you guys are doing the full restoration, or have you guys gotten rid of the server hosting side of it?

Banks were never storing information here. Sorry you were mislead. However, we are working on making it a functional data center that will be fully managed.

I live in Ottawa, lets get together for a smoke and talk more about this :P

We don't have any smokers here. Sorry. We can talk over tea though.

Might be a stupid question, but do you still have ARPANET lines installed in there?

ARPANET

Interesting question. No, there was never any ARPANET operations here. ARPANET never made its way here. It was quite popular in the US back in its day though.

Why would you want to restore this even?

Because we can. It's an amazing place.

I'd just like to say that your website sucks. I saw your AMA and thought "wow, that's cool, I'd like to see some pictures"

So, I click on your site and get a wall of text. NOBODY is going to read that. So I figure, well maybe there will be some pictures on the "about" page. Nope.

So I clicked away and won't go back.

FYI.

Sorry about that, that link was for the trouble we are having with recieving our deed. The link for pictures and information on our restoration can be found at www.falloutcomplex.com

what color is your hair?

Brown with a touch of grey. More pepper than salt athankyouverymuch.

blond with a lot of brown here, am I transforming to youe?

Cannot compute.

well, over time my hair will torn brown and eventually grey, I was born full blonde, now I am mostly brown haired, am I transforming into you?

If you are, you may want to see your doctor.

Ok then what is 4 billion times 47 thousand?

188 Trillion?

Why should I care?

It's a part of our history. Our being humanity.