I just drove 3121 miles solo from Mexico to Canada in a Tesla Model S Electric car. No gas. No fuel cost. AMA

It is an AMA, so can you please give me your car?

out of my ... cold ... dead .... hands

Who paid for the electricity?

Tesla makes the juice free to Model S drivers. Quite nice of them. The charging infrastructure is kinda like a part of the vehicle.

You drove a $100,000 car through Tijuana? OMG, you crazy.

Time elapsed: 50 minutes. Almost 100% of the time in line for the US border.

How long did you go between charge ups?

The longest distance between Superchargers is about 150 miles. Usually it is more like 120.

Were you restricted in your route or did you have options?

You pretty much stay on the Supercharger corridor. But there is definitely room to deviate. I'd say you could play around with 30-50 miles between locations, sometimes more, depending on how they are spaced. I was trying to get home by Thanksgiving, so I made a beeline.

A coworker of mine has a Model S.....very, very nice car. Which is an understatement. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if I didn't have a wife to reign me in.

I really like the attention to detail like the ability to turn on idling so it feels more like a "real" car. The first time I took my foot off the brake and the car didn't move I was like "WTF?".....and then he turned that feature on (I guess he doesn't like it) and everything felt right again.

Edit: To clarify, so that I may appease the manual transmission master race, I actually own a standard jeep and my previous two cars were manual. Assume some more though.

I was referring to cars with combustion engines as being "real" cars as a generalization. I made the generalization because Teslas don't have a fucking stick. There is no point comparing them to manual transmissions because you don't operate them in nearly the same manner.

An automatic on the other hand operates, from the drivers point of view, very similar to a Tesla. You press the brake to stop and the accelerator to go. In a combustion engine vehicle with an automatic transmission, you would expect the car the creep forward when you let off the brake.....for a car that operates similar to an automatic transmission to not do that is a bit surprising. I obviously would not have been freaked out when it didn't move forward if I were sitting there with the clutch pushed in, or if I had the gears in neutral......actually I would have been a little freaked because the car (by car I mean Tesla as to not confuse anyone) doesn't even have a multi-speed transmission to put into gear, let alone a clutch or shifter.

You guys get butthurt pretty damn easy though, I'll give you that. Kudos.

I think the feature is called creep. I have "creep" on. I don't like that golf cart feeling when it just stops cold.

This is a cool concept that they integrated. Is it basically computer automated, simply to ''simulate' the feeling?

Yeah, seems to be a computer controlled feature. Simple really. Choice A: take foot off the accelerator and car stops right away. Choice B: take foot off the accelerator and car creeps at a very slow speed.

What problems do electric cars have?

The Tesla Model S performed perfectly. So this vehicle did everything it was supposed to. The chief problem with EVs overall, however, is fueling. Finding places in public to charge quickly. The word "quickly" is important. The public EV charging stations out there are overwhelmingly (99%) the "Level 2" type that take 4+ hours to charge a smaller capacity battery like those found in a Nissan LEAF. The LEAF range is under 100 miles per charge. So you can see the issue. Imagine you wanted to take a 200 mile journey. You have to plan for a wicked charging layover.

Teslas have bigger batteries. The Tesla Superchargers charge the Model S to a 200+ mile range in a little over 30 minutes. Tesla provides the juice free to Tesla owners. They just recently (October 31) opened up a corridor from Mexico to Canada making the trip I took possible.

Its been my understanding that some of the Tesla charging stations are not connected to the grid and rely solely on the sun and batteries. If this is true, have you ever encountered a completely dry charging station and found yourself fucked?

Not so far. I have run into dead chargers at a site, and a charger that seemed to be running at half speed, but I have never been stranded. My use of fast chargers before this trip wasn't extensive .... maybe 8-10 times.

The only solar powered (or aided?) Supercharger I have seen so far is the Hawthorne station by LAX on the SpaceX campus.

By the way, I suspect that the Hawthorne Supercharger is also connected to the grid, it being located at SpaceX and all!

Did you ever stop and pee on the side of the road?

Behind the huge transformers at the Supercharger sites. Don't tell anyone.

Glad you didn't accidentally electrocute yourself. Sounds like an awesome road trip. Cheers!

Awk. Never thought of that.

This is excellent news. I am employed by a company that makes, among many other things, car charging stations.

So this is good to hear.

There are enough charging stations now to do this or did you suppliment it in some other way?

As I was saying, Tesla just linked together a chain of Supercharger sites as of the end of October. So I relied on that all the way. One exception. I had to get to Mexico from Thousand Oaks CA, and there is no Supercharger (yet) in San Diego. This means I had to use a couple slow ass Level 2 chargers to get to Mexico and back to the Supercharger by LAX (Hawthorne).

Did you call the cops over the guy blocking the parking/charging slots?

I should have, I guess. He pulled out about 15 minutes after I took the picture. Asshat!

What music did you listen to on the way?

A ton of reggae. Dancehall collection from producer Junjo Lawes.

Arctic Monkeys.

Miles Davis.

A ton of NPR and BBC.

KCRW's web music feed.

Trip was 139 hours long, so the list is a bit long.

No "I'm gonna be(500 miles)"?

How disappointing for a roadtrip.

That is so up there at the top of epic road songs.

Also Radar Love, LA Woman, Rearviewmirror, Gravity Rides Everything.

The one song I kept listening to when I was super sleepy was Dawn Penn's No No No. Cranked at max volume. That bass. That voice. Those horns. Here's a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mNPKNAQl4c

How much is the Tesla that you drove worth?

It was 100K +. It's a drag that the first truly practical EV (from the long-range driving perspective) comes with such an insanely impractical price tag. Tesla is looking to down price future vehicles with new models. Fingers crossed.

But a Nissan LEAF, for instance, can be had today for $199 a month to lease. And while its range is more limited (100 miles or so), this will change in future generations. What we need for LEAF owners today (and other vehicles like them) are more fast public charging stations so their vehicles have a greater utility and practical range.

Well if you think about it. If you drive a car that gets 40mpg 200000miles at $4/gallon. That's $20,000 alone you're saving in gas. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

That's really not a bad starting price for such a new product. I'm guessing that the technology can only get cheaper with time.

Exactly. I am optimistic about that exact thing.

I'm no Tesla hater, but the questions and answers in this AMA reek of marketing placement and staged comments.

Well, check me out. There's plenty out there on the intertubes. I'm legit. Not a shill. I have zero personal vested interest in Tesla's success. Personally, though, I think this car is just amazing. I guess you also develop a sort of gratitude to a vehicle you just made an massive journey in. Maybe soldiers feel like this about their Humvees.

Truth is, this isn't really so much about the Tesla for me at all. It's about the emergence of long range EV travel. The linking of distant points. It just seems so sci-fi to me that I traveled 3100 miles without gas. It just happens that Tesla is who is ushering it in. They are merely the first. I think about the transcontinental railway and the golden spike.

Love reddit too much to blow smoke.

How much would a full charge cost at an Tesla owner's house?

Not sure. Never done that. Let me ask the PlugShare guys, Forrest North or Armen Petrosian. Guys: are you out there reading this?

In terms of speed, accessories used, acceleration, etc., did you treat your drive any differently in the Tesla as opposed to if you would have taken the drive in a car with an internal combustion engine?

I really didn't. In fact, the opposite. The Tesla S is a zippy little vehicle. Zero to 60 in 3.9 seconds. When you are driving a gasoline vehicle, you KNOW you sucking gas when you lay on the accelerator with jackrabbit starts. But with an EV it doesn't matter. Have at it! as long as you have battery range left, it's no big deal.

You CAN save on battery by driving strategically, but I almost never do. EV owners with vehicles that have smaller ranges, such as a Nissan LEAF, however, really do need to be more strategic about they way they press the pedal, their speed, use of air condo, etc. for obvious reasons.

Let me know when you can drive one up the Alcan then I'll be more interested.

How cool would that be? I'd love to be the first.

It's a hard drive though

I'm up for it, 100%.

Do you think the intake of fossil fuels required in heavy industry/manufacturing coupled with planned obsolescence will soon be a bigger issue than consumer vehicle emissions?

That's an interesting question. I'd add to that concern the environmental impact of increased demand for electricity from drivers of future electric vehicles.

We have a crossroads ahead of us. We can move more toward a renewable power grid that uses low or zero emissions sources, or we can dirty the planet with fossil fuels. California has a pretty clean power grid, and it makes me feel better about driving an EV here. And EV drivers are 90 times more likely to have solar panels at home to help power their vehicles. But it's not the same throughout the rest of the country. Yet.

I think the planned obsolescence point is good as well. If we make things that are truly built to last, we can cut needless manufacturing for manufacturing sake that keeps factories belching.

But not all product obsolescence is bad! If we can create, for instance, vehicles that are more fuel efficient and/or zero emissions, we can reduce carbon emissions in the long run. I'm all for obsolescence when it is an energy inefficient product that is being obsoleted.

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On the road? Zero. At the Supercharger locations, 60% of the time I was the only vehicle there. But at the Gilroy, California and in Hawthorne (on the SpaceX campus, close to LAX) there was a wait for a Supercharger ... not more than 15 minutes, but still.

When you get out far from population centers, people tend to gawk. It's a bit unnerving. It's related to population density and the distance between towns. Low pops, spread out, means EVs are much rarer.

Where I live in Thousand Oaks, CA, Teslas are borderline common (certainly not shocking to see), as they are in much of SoCal.

Do you think that as these cars get more popular or affordable that companies will begin to charge you to fuel up?

Tesla is unique in that they have their own proprietary charging network. They are the only ones today.

Today (according to the study I just finished) 81% of charging takes place at home. And naturally, you pay for that with your electricity bill from your utility. By the way, this is also true of Tesla owners ... most charging is done at home. The free Superchargers are simply not that widespread, and are clustered along long travel arteries.

There are a large number of free public charging stations out there, but they account for only 8% of charging today. Many of these are installed by merchants or malls that want to do a solid for their EV customers. A goodwill thing. But you raise an interesting question. What happens when EVs become more common and the free charging station suppliers get a shocking electricity bill? Will we see fewer free charging stations? We just might.

It saddens me that the charging stations are proprietary. I mean, I think it's awesome that Tesla offers free charging, but if it weren't proprietary then other (future) cars could use the same infrastructure. Proprietary charging stations seems like a setup for a nightmare of finding the station for your particular car/having your particular charging station phased out/etc etc.

I definitely don't mean to be a downer. Your trip, car, and sense of adventure are amazing!

I hear you, but it's a double edged sword. Tesla's strategy seems to be to ensure that the charging infrastructure is there when and where its drivers need it. This affects the value of the vehicle to the driver, when you think about it.

In contrast, there is no master plan at all for the public charging infrastructure for non-Tesla vehicles. It's not quite random placement, but close. (A few cool exceptions ... the Electric Highway in Oregon ... a string of well sited fast chargers along a critical transportation artery).

Yea, I see why the company does it. Who knows, maybe in the future universal converters will be common.

The exact right idea. Sadly, there appears to be a kind of format war brewing in the DC fast charger world between the CHAdeMO standard and Combo Chargers. So for the moment, it is sliding in the opposite direction. Seems self-defeating for a fledgling industry.

Any idea how much electricity, total, you used over the course of the journey?

Let me go out to the car and look. It's logged there.

Ok back now. Looks like 1226 kWh. Damn.

how do the tesla hold charge in very cold weather?

I understand that the range declines in cold weather. Nothing horrific, but you need to be mindful of it. As a Californian it is a non issue. The on-board computer warned me a couple times in Northern Washington (it was 32 degrees) that I needed to pay special attention to low battery levels, but it was really a non issue.

ahh thank you, was wandering as im in north alberta and the cold even affects the charge on my phone lol, and tbh i havnt even seen one of those charge stations. cool road trip all the same

At the moment, Superchargers are clustered on the West Coast of the US, around Denver, a few in Texas, and along the Eastern Seaboard. But life is long. They will be widespread eventually.

I am somewhat a rev head, I am wondering what you forsee as the future of the petrol motor, how long will is last as a normal means of transportation and what will happen to Petrol engined enthusiasts.

For me the I forsee electric cars as a good thing, allowing us to drive cleanly and cheaply most the time, then enjoy the classic petrol engine on weekend or when we choose to. Whats your thoughts?

I grew up in Detroit. Somehow, I just can't bring myself to think of gasoline powered vehicles as evil, and frankly, I tend to hate polemics of any form. I hope they are always around and chugging down the road somewhere. But, like you, I hope it's ultimately more of an enthusiast thing than a mainstream thing.

Do you worry about the battery needing to be replaced? Because I do. I don't have 100K to plop down and buy it, so theres a very good chance that I will still be paying off the car when the battery (10-12K iirc) needs to be replaced.

Yeah, to replace the battery in the Model S I'm driving is 12k in the Tesla program. I need to do more investigation before developing a real opinion on this. Sounds painful. There are people at Recargo who know much more than me about this topic, but they are are out for the holidays.

The battery replacement potential doesn't get talked about enough. It seems to be rarely taken into account when projecting the cost of ownership.

How well does the car hold a charge at freezing temps? also do you know how well it would hold a charge in really cold weather like -20C to -30C?

As a Californian, I do not really know the answer. Though others have asked tonight, so I will look into to it in the future. This I know: the batteries are affected adversely by sub-freezing cold, but it is not enough to make them impractical in colder climates.

How smug did you feel when you only stopped to use the restroom/eat and not get gas?

I actually never went into a gas station for any reason. The Superchargers are pretty well sited close to malls, movie houses, restaurants and all. Still, I always felt smug driving by gas stations. I'm human.

What kind of reaction did you get from people along the way? Any negative responses?

No, only positive. Funny thing ... at the border heading back into the US, the border agent was so taken with the Tesla -- chatting me up -- that he forgot to hand me back my passport. A huge drag. Two hours to cycle back to the border in the dead of night on back roads.

People were extremely nice and interested. They prevailing sentiment: they look forward to the day that we can all turn our back on gasoline. Especially teenagers. I get peppered with a zillion questions.

How long does it take to charge the car?

I can get about 200 miles in a half an hour. If I charge it all the way up (it has a 260 mle range or so), it takes an hour or a little more. As my journey wore on, I started getting more fatigued, so I tended to charge longer so I could rest. At one point, I drove for 37 hours straight (stopping only to charge). So I would sleep a bit at the charging stations. Had to.

Now if i were using the more common Level 2 chargers instead of a Supercharger, I'd have to wait 8+ hours for a charge. Ie, it would be completely impractical. Vehicles like the Nissan LEAF with smaller (100 mile range) batteries take 4 hours or so to charge at a Level 2 charger.

Do you think battery cars show more promise than Hydrogen fuel cell cars?

Well, there are 17 different makes and models of EVs on the road today. So EVs have a big headstart. And flawed though it may be, they also have a charging infrastructure.

I'm simply not sure how I think it will shake out. Perhaps they will coexist, like strawberry and chocolate flavors. Infrastructure is going to be a bitch for fuel cell vehicles, it seems.

Welcome to Canada. Glad to have you here.

Next time I promise to stay longer than 10 minutes. I've had many, many other great visits to Canada though.

Lets talk bathroom breaks. Did you ever stop between charges?

Never between charges. But I have special powers. They call me The Dromedary.

What are the things, if any, you dislike about Tesla?

Tesla needs to downprice its vehicles. There's a massive gap between the Model S price point and the average American. Massive. They have a great formula, but it needs to be exported to a wider circle. There needs to be a People's Tesla.

When they do (or if they do), we'll hit an EV acceptance inflection point, I think. Something that's great for whole category.

If you don't mind, how is the cost of charging at home?

It depends on what your power company charges for electricity, and that varies pretty widely from utility to utility. Some even offer "time of use" rates designed to push EV charging rates to off peak time slots (ie, late at night when the grid has less demand).

Not trying to be vague, just that the real answer is "it depends".

Having said that, there are a few cost calculators online that help to answer the question with more authority. Take a look, for example at Pacific Gas & Electric's calculator at http://www.pge.com/cgi-bin/pevcalculator/PEV

Here's another one from the State of California: http://www.pge.com/cgi-bin/pevcalculator/PEV

Not sure where you live on the planet, but there is prolly one from your local utility or government.

What did you do when your car was out of energy in the middle of nowhere?

Never happened. There was only one time I got nervous. The I-5 (main north/south artery) SHUT DOWN in the the middle of a sparsely populated part of Northern California. There was a vehicle fire that shut the whole frigging freeway down. middle of the night. There was a detour route, but it added miles to my journey (not a good thing). Happily, it all worked out. Rolled in to the next Supercharger with 30 miles or something.

You're a lucky guy

When it was all over, I kinda felt my nervousness was unwarranted. The more I drove, the more I got a feel for range, and what was safe.

So how and where did you charge?

There are 13 charging stations I used from Southern California to Northern Washington State. I made a screen grab of the locations and distances between them as plotted on an Excel sheet. Check out my Flickr feed at http://www.flickr.com/photos/109938436@N06/sets/72157638128356683/

The Excel sheet is the last image (#36)

How much would the model you drove cost you to buy at retail? Taxes in/excluded as you prefer?

Let's say north of 100K.

Ohh yeaaa Thousand Oaks represent

I'm a member of the Hillcrest Road Crips, y'all.

How much does it cost to charge your car at a charging station?

It's completely free to Tesla drivers. It is only available for their use. So I spent zero on fuel.

I figured it would have taken about 156 gallons of gas if I had been in a regular car, by the way. Picture three 50 gallon drums!

Did you take anything unusual with you on your trip? You know, anything besides clothes and other normal supplies. I've always thought it's interesting what people bring on long trips.

Hah. I did.

i brought a two octave controller keyboard that I used to play the Mellotron (learning Beatles bits like Strawberry Fields) hooked to the iPad.

I brought a siphon coffee maker and a butane heater and made coffee on top of a Supercharger. Check out my Flickr feed ... there's a photo ... http://www.flickr.com/photos/109938436@N06/sets/72157638128356683/

Dude, anyone who plays Mello-tron while on a battery-powered road trip is alright in my book. The coffee-brewing setup is really cool, also. So I'm guessing the trip was pretty fun?

It was a total blast, but next time, I need to take my time. Seriously, one leg of the journey was 37 hours straight ... 1600 miles ... sleeping while charging (SWC ... a new acronym). A bit extreme, even for me.

I see you constantly plug Tesla, and Nissan. What is wrong with the Chevrolet Volt?

I totally love the Volt. In fact I just suggested someone consider one a a few threads ago. The reason that I am mentioning Tesla and the LEAF so much is that the journey I just took was about battery electric vehicles. It would not have been news that a Volt drove from Mexico to Canada.

Plug-In Hybrids are awesome. And the Volt is an amazing piece of technology.

So, its not that the fuel cost nothing, its that YOU didnt pay for the fuel yourself. I assume that has to do with a "Cruise line buffet" idea where you paid upfront early on and now have a "service" through Tesla?

I was interested in an Electric Car (one thats affordable by a normal person overall) but after hearing the 100miles before charges and the super low amount of charge place availability I realized that I would quickly be stranded, or have to take hours a week to charge up. I like the idea of Gas+ where I can drive my little lady of an Insight and know gas will always be there to keep me trucking.

Maybe a Plug-in Hybrid, like the Chevy Volt, is a better fit for you.

how much weed was in the car?

Borders.

I should add that just north of the Mt. Shasta, CA Tesla Supercharger is a town called Weed. I have a picture of Weed Elementary School that seems like a future imgur/reddit karma magnet.

I am not familiar with that measuring system. Could I get a to pounds conversion ratio?

As in "borders can be scary places"

I'm from NYC metro area and I never seen a charging station in the wild. Why are EV's popular in the west coast but not here in the east?

Well, state government incentives is a part of it. California, for one, is quite generous. There's a high degree of environmental consciousness on the West Coast as well. In part, it's a question of where the automakers ship the cars to be sold.

Does the car has an "Emergency charge/fuel" to use if you get out of charge in a trip? or what do you do if you run out of charge?

Well, our study shows that is an exceedingly rare event. 2% of drivers have experienced it.

There is no emergency reserve.

Flatbed tow. Get thee to a wall socket, ideally 220/240V.

It will never happen to me. (Sound of wood, knuckles.)

What are insurance premiums like for this car? My mind can't grasp will the cost be cheaper or more expensive compared to a similar performing "normal" internal combustion vehicle.

In line with vehicles of a similar cost.

If the electricity that is used to charge the EVs isn't generated by renewable energy but largely by burning coals, how do EVs help reduce green house gas?

Right. not much benefit if the grid is not clean to start with.

California's grid is quite clean, and so it is a net positive here.

As I mentioned earlier, the study I recently authored on EV Charging shows that EV drivers are 90 times more likely to invest in solar than the average US household. So that's another way around the problem (weather permitting!).

I'm thinking of getting a Tesla as my first car. Would it be a good investment? How long does it take to charge the car, and how long does it take for it to die?

Tesla drivers need to install charging stations at their home. Generally with these "level 2" chargers, you plug in when you go to sleep and wake up to a fully charged battery that has a range of 160-260 miles (depending on which version of the Model S you get).

As I have been saying, if you find a Supercharger nearby, you can charge the vehicle in about a half hour, for free.

P60 or P85.

do you see Tesla teaming up with major manufacturers like toyota to produce an electric version of one of their popular models, that would be compatible with the supercharger(or whatever alternative is created) network.

have you heard anything about utilizing graphene or "statene" in future batteries(just a hail mary question, they are still in R&D for both conductors)

thanks for your time, i am an auto tech in training and hope to see a near future that utilizes mainly electric vehicles... exciting times we are living in.

P85.

Not up on graphene and statene, but have made a note to look into it. Thanks for pointing it out.

How does it feel to have almost literally fucked the auto industry in the ass?

Wow. I did not know that. When did I do that?

Did it ever catch fire?

I keep a bag of marshmallows with me at all times, just in case.

Did you know Tesla created a CHAdeMO converter for the Model S?

Yes! Tesla says it will be $1000, and is "coming soon".

For the benefit of other readers: CHAdeMO is a DC fast charging standard, and like the Tesla Superchargers, CHAdeMO chargers radically accelerate the fueling process. (In my other comments when I write about the Nissan LEAF and DC fast charging, I'm talking CHAdeMO.) There are some 300 CHAdeMO chargers scattered about the country, vs. around 100 superchargers at 41 locations. So when this adaptor goes on sale, Tesla owners get a new ability to roam about the country. I will study the feasibility of a cross country trip this way soon.

Food = fuel for your body ya dingus!

I know, I know. Is this a my wife using a throwaway account by any chance?

Does John Broder know about your trip? I'd love to hear what he has to say.

I should invite him to ride shotgun on my next foray. He doesn't get to drive though. I hate tow trucks.

What type of food were you eating?

Truthfully, mostly really bad food. Too much drive-thru fast food stuff. Buckets o' coffee. I tried to redeem myself on the way back, and I actually sat down and ate a few meals with vegetables and the like. Another mistake: waiting until I was starving to eat. Makes you more susceptible to insta-food.

How much did 'fuel'/electricity costs come to?

How is the electricity sourced? is it clean energy?

No cost to the electricity, as Tesla Superchargers are usable at no cost to Tesla drivers.

The grid on the West Coast is quite clean.

This is the fakest piece of shit AMA ever. Obvious marketing, i mean look at all the questions, 'how long between charges', 'how does the car run in cold weather', how much does this particular model s cost?', 'how much does the car cost to charge'. And the answers are just as bad.

Edit: I don't care about the downvotes i still think i'm right

Sorry you feel that way. Totally not true. Are you reading what I am writing? I am pretty critical of many aspects of the EV industry today. The Tesla is a really good car. People are curious about it. But as I said elsewhere, for me, this is NOT really about the Tesla at all. It's about the fact that journeys like this have become newly possible. It just so happens that the Tesla is the first vehicle that made it possible, but there will be hoards following it. It is the beginning of an era. It seems like frigging fiction to me ... driving 3100 without a drop of sweat or gasoline. Sheesh. Don't be such a cynic.

How long have you been a liar?

Is there something you doubt?