I'm Tom Breihan, and I wrote a book about #1 hit singles. AMA.

Is there an incredibly popular, historically famous song that only made it to #2 that would make us all go, "No way that was never a #1 hit?!?!"

There's so many! My favorites: The Miracles' "Shop Around," Bob Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone," Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On," Bruce Springsteen's "Dancing in the Dark," Dr. Dre's "Nuthin' But a 'G' Thang," Kelly Clarkson's "Since U Been Gone."

Richard D’Orazi, regular reader and commenter, and have been really enjoying and learning a lot from the Number Ones column starting with the explosion of Beatlemania and beginning now to get into songs I remember as a kid. Also enjoy everything else you write on other music and movies. (Feel vindicated by your recent Coldplay album review.) Can’t wait to start reading your book tomorrow! Have three questions:

1. Any #1 songs you wanted to include in the book but didn’t make the cut? To me, “Royals” seemed like a #1 song destined for your book.
2. Any artists you gained a new perspective and/or appreciation of from writing about them in your column?
3. Any facts that have surprised you in writing about every #1 song? For me, it’s definitely how a lot of producers and songwriters pop up in unexpected places like one of the writers on the Clay Aiken #1 starting out writing country hits in the early-‘80s.

Hi Richard! Thanks for always being there!

1. I could easily pick another 20 songs for another book if this one somehow becomes a runaway bestseller or whatever. I'm already kind of regretting not writing an "Old Town Road" chapter, since the arrival of TikTok does seem like one of those game-changer moments.

2. This is going to seem like me trolling, but the Beatles. I feel like I gain a little more appreciation of almost every artist I write about, but diving into the whole Beatles phenomenon, something I'd been kinda half-avoiding for most of my life, was really fascinating.

3. I pick up so many weird and unexpected trivia bits with every column. Like I just found out today that a pre-fame Ludacris had a writing credit on KP & Envyi's "Swing My Way." Had no idea. Blew my mind.

Genuinely surprised about Old Town Road not being in the book. Even besides the 19-week record and phenomenon surrounding it, OTR feels like the definitive beginning of the TikTok era of pop music to me

There's a fair amount of "OTR" talk in the Soulja Boy chapter, but I feel you.

I’m a big Beatles person like a lot of people so I’d probably be inclined to give a high score to all their #1s even though I get why you don’t like “All You Need Is Love,” “Hello, Goodbye,” and “The Long and Winding Road.” For me, reading about R&B and hip-hop along with the big ‘80s stars like Janet, Whitney, Madonna, George Michael and the big names after like Mariah, Usher, and Beyoncé currently has had me gaining a new appreciation for them and liking their music.

Also, have any recommendations for books about music (history, memoirs, etc.)? Every time you bring up a book in your reviews I almost instantly get interested and buy it.

There are so many, but the last one I read was Joe Coscarelli's Rap Capital, and I loved it.

Music journalism has been through some real changes since 2005. What have been the biggest changes—both the good and the bad—over the years, and where do you think music journalism is headed next?

P.S. Loved hearing you talk about hardcore on Popcast. They called the right person.

Aaaay thank you! That conversation was so much fun.

The big change now is that it's harder to make a living doing it. That sucks. But it's also a whole lot more open to people who are not white guys like me, so that part is good.

One thing that's really changed is that people are now very deferential to pop stars, which seems less about the aesthetic idea of poptimism and more about people being afraid to rile up stan armies. Also people don't tell as many jokes anymore? But maybe that's good; I was sometimes a big ol' asshole when I was starting out.

Why are you always standing in front of me at concerts?

I am merely an agent of cold, uncaring fate. There is no reason, no strategy. There is merely chaos, as represented by one extremely tall person who didn't even notice you there.

On the real tho, I usually try to stand by the wall or in front of a pillar or something, unless I'm moshing.

Will we ever see a mainstream or alternative rock act hit #1 again?

Olivia Rodrigo just did it! Twice!

If you're asking whether it'll be something that sounds like Zeppelin or Nirvana, then yeah, I think we probably will, but it might take some form that we don't expect. Also, Zeppelin and Nirvana never made it to #1 in the first place.

How many hours of research does each number one song take? Do you ever regret taking on a project of this magnitude?

I never regret it. I love writing these things, even though they're a lot of work. I usually spend a couple of hours researching and then another couple of hours writing. Then I get excited about a couple of rabbitholes and spend another couple hours writing. I have definitely annoyed my family a bunch of times by spending too long on a column.

In your opinion what's the most influential song of the century?

This century? I've got a chapter in the book about "Crank That (Soulja Boy)," and it might honestly be that because that's the song that really showed the true democratizing power of cheap beatmaking software and social networking. T-Pain's "I'm Sprung" is way up there, too. The most influential pop musicians of this century are probably Lil Wayne, Future, and Young Thug, but you can't really sum up what they do in any one song.

For the cynics among us, #1’s and the pop charts in general seem to be a figment of corporate promotional machines. What are your favorite exceptions to this? A real bedroom bop that made it to the top of the pops? Have platforms like TikTok helped decentralize support for new tracks?

My favorite thing about the pop charts is that whenever the big companies seem to have it on lock, something weird bubbles up out of nowhere and fucks their plans up. I love those stories: ? & The Mysterians, Timmy T, D4L. And yeah, I think TikTok does serve to make things more unpredictable, which is especially important when the biggest pop stars are so dominant.

Hey Tom, longtime fan, made a burner account for this site just to write to you.

I was wondering, as we get closer to the present day, do you ever worry that it'll become harder to estimate the actual impact of certain songs? Do you ever think you might say something that seems embarrassing in hindsight? Sometimes I wonder how different, say, the Michael Jackson columns would've been if Leaving Neverland had released while you were covering or after covering that period, rather than right before. A more recent example might be if, hypothetically, you were already caught up to the present in 2020 and covered DaBaby's #1 hit "Rockstar" when in released, rather than in retrospect now that his reputation has taken a significant hit and he no longer seems to have a future as a charting artist.

Really looking forward to your 1/10 review of "Crack a Bottle", which recently had its shelved music video released for some reason. Are there any future Number Ones columns you're looking forward to writing? Can't wait to read the book!

Hey, thank you! There are a ton of columns I can't wait to write. And yeah, I definitely think about how it'll be harder to measure the impact of newer songs, but I can only work with the information that I have. I don't really worry about stuff that'll be embarrassing later, though, because that's fun. Like for instance, I was the first person ever to write about Drake on Pitchfork, and I called him "a guy on Degrassi"

https://pitchfork.com/news/34331-lil-wayne-is-making-a-rock-album-says-a-guy-on-degrassi-the-next-generation/

In the UK, the BBC have written an article today saying the Singles Charts could be done away with as they no longer represent anything to many people.

Is it going the same way in the US? I've been reading along and for the 20 years there are a handful of songs you've covered that don't resonate with me. But I couldn't tell you any songs that have been number 1 in the UK this year, I just assume it is all Ed Sheersn colabs.

It's funny; the songs that reach #1 these days seem more obscure to more people, but the fact that they get to #1 seems extremely important to fans of those artists. The #1 spot is like money; it only means something if everyone agrees that it means something. And right now, a whole lot of people seem invested in the charts. When you get a story like "Running Up That Hill" suddenly blowing up, people seem to get genuinely fired up about it. If anything, I think the idea of a #1 hit is more relevant now than it was 20 or 30 years ago, since everyone now has access to all that data.

How much do you think a number 1 hit song defines the times of its release vs. the times of its release defining it?

It's a real chicken-or-egg question, isn't it? I tend to think that songs are the products of their moment more than anything else, but there's so many songs where you can be like "well, this obviously changed everything."

Do you have a vote for absolute worst #1 hit of all time? I have to admit reading the negative reviews is always more fun haha.

My standard answer is "The Ballad of the Green Berets." Just all kinds of bad vibes on that one.

Tom, fellow tall guy here repping at 6’8” (and also a big fan of the column). Who’s a one hit wonder you wish had a longer time in the mainstream spotlight due to more hits? Conversely, do you think there any popular artists you would have preferred as one hit wonders?

Hey, high five! I wish that, like, Fine Young Cannibals had stuck around for longer, but there's also something very cool about knocking out a couple of great #1s and then disappearing forever. As to the other question, Harry Styles only has a couple of #1s, but I wouldn't mind if he took a long break.

You can answer one or both if you want.

If you had to pick 5-10 favorite number ones you have covered thus far, what would they be?

Of your older, more brief columns, which one do you most regret not diving further into as you researched and wrote it.

Off the dome: "I Heard It Through The Grapevine," "I Want You Back," "Dancing Queen," "Hypnotize," "Crazy in Love." Changes all the time, though.

I don't regret any of the older columns because the new ones keep me too dang busy. Maybe when this whole project is done and I get a moment to breathe, I can be like "I should've really gone in deeper on 'Mr. Custer.'"

How many times a day do you do the Macarena?

I have to stop a couple of times a day to eat but otherwise it's 24/7.

Hypothetically, if you could remove one #1 hit from history just to see what kind of cascade effect it would have (a la 1985A in Back to the Future), which one would it be?

Thanks for the AMA. I started reading your column after you covered "One Sweet Day," and read every article going back to the beginning. Looking forward to reading your book.

Aw man. I can't even imagine what that would look like, but for the sake of conversation, let's boot "Love Will Keep Us Together" out of there and see what happens.

How different would the charts look this century if they strictly and exclusively tracked physical media? CDs and vinyl sales only: no downloads or streams.

It would be all Jack White on the album charts, and it would be sooo boring. I don't even know what it would be singles-wise. A lot of Kpop, I guess?

Which artists that you haven't covered yet are you most excited to get to?

Taylor Swift baybay! Also Lil Wayne.

Which number 1 song from the last ~two years are you most excited to write about, off the top of your head?

I am going to have so much fun writing about "WAP."

Did you read KLF's "The Manual" and what did you think of it?

You know, I've never read it. I think I get the gist, though. My take is: It's fun that it exists.

You write a lot (and very insightfully) about rap music as a white dude. Rap music has obviously been an art form driven by Black creators, often for a Black audience. How does this change how you write about rap music?

(For example, do you ever not write about a rap news topic, or at least refrain from giving your opinion, specifically because you are white? Do you ever hesitate in being critical of Black creators because you are white?)

For the record, I think you've done a good job of acknowledging your limitations without hand waving difficult topics, e.g. MJ and R Kelly.

When I started at the Village Voice, I called my blog Status Ain't Hood because it seemed ridiculous for someone like me to be writing about rap. It's a think I still have to negotiate, and I'm sure I've held back from commenting on a few things. I mostly try to figure that stuff out by feel, and if someone tells me in good faith that I'm fucking up, I listen. But I'd say my race affects everything that I write about music, consciously or not.

How much do you think things happening outside of music - current events, political climate, trends in fashion/film/media, impact how well a song charts? Can you see a through-line of what these tracks all had in common?

It's not always an immediate one-to-one thing, but there's always some kind of conversation happening between the charts and the rest of the world. Barry McGuire's "Eve of Destruction" is a pretty vague and general song, but the fact that it went to #1 in 1965 was a sign that things were changing, that young people weren't satisfied with the answers they were getting. Usually, though, the connections are more vague and random. My favorite thing is how Kool & The Gang's "Celebration" went to #1 after news broadcasts played it over footage of the Iran hostages coming back. Usually, it's the kind of thing that you can't really measure in the moment, but these threads kind of show themselves over time -- things like people becoming more comfortable discussing sexuality directly rather than through allusion. It really does seem like some kind of landmark that Sam Smith and Kim Petras can get to #1 with "Unholy" now.

I really love how you both promote your love of pop music and your love of hardcore. If you were able to write a book or column about the history of hardcore what would be your angle?

Aw man, thank you, but I couldn't write a book on hardcore. That's a whole culture, and I don't feel like I'm deep enough in it to be a real authority. Pop music is everyone's culture, so it's a little easier.

What do you think about the recent Taylor-Top-Ten, Drake and 21 Savage's new album bomb on the chart today, and "album bombs" in general?

In some ways, it feels ahistorical to have someone suddenly taking up the whole upper end of the charts, but it really does seem to reflect what people are listening to at any given moment. So Midnights isn't the most popular album of all time, but Taylor taking up the whole top 10 is still a massive flex and a sign that she's bigger than anyone else. And I also kind of like the whole chess-game aspect of the charts now, like how Drake and Savage can have 8 spots in the top 10 but still can't get past "Anti-Hero."

Short answer: We're in the steroid era now, but I like seeing people hit home runs.

I'm not sure if you study the economics of hit songs, but do you feel that an artist with a #1 song in the 80's or 90's (when physical albums and physical singles sold) were compensated more (maybe adjusting for inflation) than now, in the current streaming era?

I know the streaming services pay a fraction of the revenue artists traditionally generated from physical album sales...But if Ed Sheeran or Drake score 1-3 billion streams for a single, does that start to add up? Or is it still pocket change and these artists make their money via touring, merchandise, and corporate deals...

The highest-level artists, the Drakes and Taylors, make a ton of money from streaming services. For anyone smaller, though, it's practically impossible to make a living from streaming. That's a definite change. It's never been easy to eat off of record royalties, but it's definitely gotten harder.

Granted you've still got nearly 20 years of pop music to go, but of the half century you've covered so far, what is the worst, most grating #1 you've encountered so far?

"The Ballad of the Green Berets" is bad sonically, culturally, and narratively. It's just a whole lot of stuff that I don't like.

I love your Number Ones column and it's exposed me to so much great music and a ton of joy and laughter. Thank you so much.

I notice that you often point out when the songs you link to have appalling homophobic elements, or racist elements, but it feels like gross misogynistic elements still get a pass (from you and societally).

Do you think that's true? I'd love to hear your thoughts on the whole issue of song content.

I hope I'm not sweeping that stuff under the rug. I try to acknowledge the things that are fucked up without being a scold about it. It's a fine line to walk.

Well, you knew someone was going to ask:

Any particular thoughts on The Number Ones Comment Section?

It's so sick! The comments section has become its own beast, and I don't even know that it has that much to do with me or what I'm writing most of the time, which is cool. I'm just happy that I had something to do with bringing all these people together.

How can you make it into this career of music criticism/reviewing? I’ve always done this as a hobby for myself and it’s one of those things I deeply enjoy doing.

There's no one career path that gets you right into the zone. I went from an alt-weekly internship to freelancing to blogging to Pitchfork freelancing to a sort of staff-freelancer position at the Village Voice, and most of those options aren't available to anyone anymore. All I can tell you is read and write and listen to as much as possible, try to figure out what sets your voice apart, and cultivate relationships with people who are already in the game. There are jobs to be had, but it's not the easiest or most stable way to make a living.

Which artist that only ever peaked at no.2 are you most disappointed to not get an opportunity to go in-depth on because they missed out on a no.1?

Also, as an Australian here, which is your favourite band/artist from Down Under?

The obvious answers here would be Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen, but they get to kinda be recurring characters in the column anyway, and it's not like there's any scarcity of writing on them. Woulda been cool if Creedence made it once, or En Vogue. I assume i'll get to write about Dua Lipa one day, but right now, she's been stuck at #2 twice.

Favorite Australian artist right now: SPEED! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfCROIuI9VE

Midnight Oil, they are from Down Under and have a fellow tall guy as frontman.

Peter Garrett is what, 6'4"? That's not tall.

What determines a number one song? Airplay, record sales, downloads, streams? Has it changed over the years?

It's changed a lot. Billboard is always updating its formula to keep up with the way people listen to music. In the very beginning, it was radio play, singles sales, and jukeboxes. Today, it's a combination of airplay, sales, and streaming, with streaming absolutely dominating everything else.

What are some of the biggest surprises to you on songs that hit #1, and what was surprising about their ascent?

I like the anarchic stories where people suddenly catch a wave. In retrospect, it's not surprising that Cardi B got to #1 with "Bodak Yellow," but it seemed like this great burst of randomness in the moment. That whole story was one of the main catalysts for me writing the column in the first place.

Any interest in getting back to writing about movies? With a year's distance from what I think is your last Popcorn Champs, how do you feel about moviegoing and blockbusters these days? https://www.avclub.com/is-bad-boys-for-life-the-last-blockbuster-1847661410

I'd love to write more about movies, but the music stuff is keeping me busy, and nobody's knocking down my door to get me to write more about movies. Also, the stuff that went down at the AV Club really bummed me out.

The landscape for blockbuster movies seems a little bleak right now, but maybe that's just cuz I just paid way too much money to take my kids to see Black Adam and cuz Wakanda Forever wasn't enough to erase that memory.

You know what's good? Lost Bullet 2. That movie fuckin rips.

Hey Tom. Been keeping up with The Number Ones since I discovered it when you were in the early 70s. Great stuff. Also loved your AV Club movie columns (I sent a bunch of the box office champs ones to my friends.)

Question: I could have sworn you wrote a column for some online magazine about the most important rap album of every year, but I can't find that now. I also recall the articles stopping before it reached the present. Do those articles still exist, and why did you stop writing them? I assume the site decided to stop its freelance writing?

Thank you! It was on the Sole DXB site, and they don't seem to be online anymore, but maybe the site is just redesigning or something. I had to stop that column when I got too busy with the book.

What do you think causes a song to catch on to the point it becomes hugely popular and becomes a number 1 hit?

There's never any formula! It's always some sort of vague zeitgeist thing, more based around timing than the quality of the song itself. Or that's what it's usually been; these days, it has as much to do with who can effectively mobilize their stan armies.

Have you seen https://twitter.com/snlhostsintro and is it also your favorite thing?

I love it. The suspense is delicious. Just flipping through and being like "John Goodman! Who's he gonna say???"

Do you ever second guess giving Hanson’s Mmmbop a 10?

Related, and sorry for the pithy question above, how do you go about rating songs? Is there a secret methodology or is it vibes? Fwiw I tend to agree within a couple points!

Never, not for one second. And no real formula; it's just instinct.

Were there any interesting stories or anecdotes that couldn't make it into the column for one reason or another?

I can't think of any! The columns are so long because I probably jam too much stuff in there. I can't let a fun story go untold. (I'm sure there are a lot of fun stories about these songs that don't wind up in the column, but that's just because I don't find them when I'm researching.)

I'm a huge fan of The Number Ones. I follow the "Tom's Tens" playlist on Spotify and love experiencing a song through your eyes. You've reinvigorated my love for lots of songs and even helped me see the greatness I had missed in some others.

My questions:

1. Doesn't DJ Mustard just kill it every time?
2. Have you heard a bad DJ Mustard production?

Maaaan, thank you! I love Mustard. I don't keep tabs on him the way I once did, but that early YG era? The Ketchup mixtape? Incredible.

Do you plan to aggregate the columns into a single volume like Fred Bronson’s prior excellent works?

Probably not. A long time ago, someone told me that nobody wants to pay for anything that's available online for free, which makes sense to me. Also, at this point, the book would be like 10 phone books glued together.

What is the quality you like most about yourself?

I wish I knew how to answer this! This is a total copout, but I like being tall.

You always seem to listen to the album from which a song came from for each column, which is extremely cool.

Have you ever flat-out refused to do that, like "No, I am NOT going to listen to a full album of this shit"?

Nope, never. I listen to all the bullshit.

What ever happened to the humble fade-out? By my reckoning around the mid-90s singles stopped employing fade-outs, in favour of more definitive outros. And it never came back. I’ve always wondered if there was any rhyme or reason for this, or if it just a represents a random, incidental cultural evolution 🤷🏼‍♂️

That's a great question, and I have no idea. Maybe it has something to do with changes at radio? DJs cutting things off before the fadeout?

Is there a good source for FAQs on the column? I've always been curious what the "The 10s" were at the bottom of some columns. I always figured they were top 10 songs that you rated 10 that didn't reach #1 - just never understood the time frame (just during that column's songs reign, or that month, or other)?

That's exactly what they are. They peaked in the top 10 when the songs in the column were at #1, and I think they're 10s. Trust your instincts! You got this!

I've been a long time reader of the Number Ones, and I appreciate although it never charted high enough to rate, in the "Try Again" column you still took the time to appreciate "Are You That Somebody" as a seismic, monumental pop song. Are there any songs like it where you wish you could write more on it, as culture-changing objects, but never had the chart success to grant it a place in the column?

Oh, there's a ton, but I honestly don't think too much about them. I've assigned myself a big enough task that I'm not exactly pining for all the stuff I don't get to write about.

What do you see changing over time in what hits #1? For example, now you would never have a novelty song chart, like you had “The Streak” and “The Chipmunk Song” or “My Ding-a-Ling” or “Convoy” back in the 60s and 70s.

But meme songs are kinda the new novelties, aren't they? Like "Savage Love" isn't the same as "The Streak" but they kinda fulfill the same function. The sounds themselves change all the time, but the way the songs work in the world seems honestly pretty stable?

So aside from that, what DO you see as having changed over the last 60+ years?

Oh, jeez, a million things. Synths. Multi-track recording. Vocal filters. People being more outwardly horny. But those changes are usually incremental, and they take a while to really set in.

Who's your favorite Pokemon?

I tell my kids that it's Snorlax, but it's really Squirtle.

Love the column! Do you know if your book is actually getting a UK release, either in ebook or physical format? The way it's listed on amazon UK hasn't made me particularly hopeful as it doesn't appear like a real preorder and it doesn't seem to be on Hachette UK's website.

I honestly have no idea. I hope so!

Who is the artist who you have been most excited to write about in this column time and time again? Is it the Temptations? TLC? Jackson 5?

(I am sure of the answer to the opposite, the one you've dreaded writing about constantly. It's Bryan Adams.)

I rarely dread writing about anyone. Even when it's Creed or whoever, I think the stories are fun. Also, Bryan Adams has bangers; they're just not hit #1 hits. "Cuts Like a Knife" slaps.

Right now, the one I'm most excited about is probably Beyonce, but maybe that's just because I'm fully in it.

What's your go to soup recipe?

My go to soup recipe is top ramen because I eat like I'm 5.

Who was the highest ranking Band/Musician with the most number 1's?

Well, the Beatles have the most #1s with 20. But if you're asking about my own rankings, Marvin Gaye has three #1s, and they're all 10s. The Temptations have 4: Three 10s and a 9. Hard to beat those averages.

Is today's music industry even compatible with #1 hits?

They're still making 'em. But I do wonder what's going to happen in the future if older music continues to be way, way more popular than newer music.