I am an Israeli dating an Iranian. AMA!

Im sorry if my question sounds lame but what are the possible obstacles your marriage may encounter due to your religions? Best of luck to you guys btw!

We've thought about it a lot, I can't give you a direct answer, but if anything, we'd have to marry outside of both of our countries.

There's a conflict of religion, indeed, since even though we're completely secular, none of us wants the other to convert.

If (!) you have lived in Europe for a longer time: Would it be an option to become a citizen where you live?

I believe so. Once I receive my MD, I can work anywhere within the EU, and after a while, I'll be able to become a citizen.

When you say secular, you mean atheist?

Yes

Israeli-American here married to French-Moroccan Muslim. We’re also 100% secular atheists. We have kids. When people ask what religion we’re raising them, we say, “human.”

We both believe religion is silly, but if someone wants to be religious, you can’t say, “ this is your religion.” Religion is something you should choose for yourself later in life. If one of my daughters wants to be a Roman Catholic nun, who am I to say no to what speaks to her?

We’re both vegetarians, but we don’t assume our children will be. They currently eat a meatless diet because they’re little and we make their food, but we always tell them it’ll be their decision to eat/not eat meat when they’re older.

Good luck!

Thank you so much for your input! When did you immigrate to the US?

How did your families react?

Here's the thing...My dad is an IDF officer, and I don't want to risk ruining his career. They take such things quite seriously, you can't have any contact with the "enemy" when you're exposed to sensitive information.

From her side, she's really scared for her family's life. She told her brother and sworn him not tell anyone, he thought it was cool.

So...we haven't really told anyone except for a tiny group of friends.

Your “contact with the enemy” comment really got me, so pls educate me, why do Iranians and Israelis see each other as enemies? If they fought a war a long time ago. Germans and Russians don’t see each other as enemies anymore nor do Americans and Japanese.

Also interested to know why there is so much conflict between both countries and is there any was to resolve this?

Simply put - The Iranian government has threatened to destroy Israel on many occasions, and they support terrorist groups that attack Israeli civilians.

Israel threatens to destroy the Iranian regime.

AFAIK, we never had a true war with them, so maybe that's why.

A solution? Changing their government...that would solve many other issues besides the Israeli one.

Thank you for your answer, I absolutely understand how the situation is difficult to say the least...as Pauline Kael said life is too complex for facile endings.

Still, for what's worth I admire you for sticking together and am sending you guys my best.

Thank you :)

If you're in your 20's, and your dad is an officer in the IDF - he's probably retiring soon enough. Do you think you can withhold it from him for the few remaining years?

You're right! And yes, I can :)

The enemy ?! This is stupid whoever said she's an enemy just by being born in another country

A typical question in an IDF security clearance (once a year or two) is:

"האם יש לך או למקורביך קשרים עם אנשים הגרים במדינות עוינות?"

Which translates to "Do you or anyone you know have contact with people who live in a hostile country?" (Iran is a hostile country to Israel) - answering yes will lead to shitload of interrogations, which I prefer my dad to avoid.

Israel officially designated Iran as an enemy state (and probably vice versa). Using personal ties to get access to classified information is a very common tactic. If Iran knows about this relationship, they can extort her by threatening her family. The IDF and Shin Bet will annul the security clearance of any person who is susceptible to such a method of spying (i.e the father), or at the very least keep a very, very close eye on them - like tapping their phones (and potentially career ruining).

She, herself, is not necessarily an enemy; Her country is.

Technically, iran just flat out does not recognise israel. It simply views it as occupied palestine (see first page of the iran passport for proof. It states that the holder of this passport is not entitled to visit the occupied palestine (not meaning israeli settlements, but rather here meaning israel itself).

Just a matter of pedantism though really.

You're right, that's exactly what her passport says.

What do you both study?

Also do you have religious differences in your day-to-day life, or are you both rather relaxed about the religion? :)

I study medicine, she's studying pharmacy.

We're both completely secular although she prays on occasion, and we both think that bacon is delicious :D

Interesting. I was in Israel ten years ago and could not get bacon anywhere. Bit of a deal breaker for me in terms of living somewhere. I mean, I love hummus, but it doesn't cut for breakfast when I'm hungover.

You should've went to an Eastern European deli, or a non-kosher restaurant. There are plenty of them, but I do wish they would get rid of the kosher standard, it makes everything expensive.

Whoah, nice! I have a friend who studies medicine, and my parents are in the field as well (dad surgeon, mum teaching nurse students in the hospital). So I have great respect for anyone to study these things, as I would never last a whole semester! So much stuff to learn, but also so interesting! I chose archaeology, and did a semester of zooarchaeology, and really connected with all the latin terms for bones, although it was for animals and not human bones :3

The bodily arrangement is not that different throughout all animals, including humans :) If you're interested, read more about HOX genes

Did you two meet in school? Are you both studying in Europe?

Yes and yes!

How are the conversations re: the mess of the war?

We've had a few arguments here and there, but in general, we both agree that war is unnecessary.

I think we can all agree on that. But do you side with one and she another? Not trying to start a fight lol, just trying to pick your brains.

We both have our own opinions on each other's government, but since we're both mature and intellectual (at least she is :P), we respect each other and understand that it's only politics.

Surely as non religious types you can see religious identity and propaganda on both sides is the real problem between the ordinary folks, for the oligarch's its probably more asset and financial in nature with identity being the excuse for polarisation.

I agree, I think religion is a waste of time.

Is this scene from Curb your enthusiasm any accurate? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8XNrAjh7eo

Annnd this scene (NSFW): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEQL0pnMSls

Hahaha I love Larry David :)

All the Iranians I've met have been more than respectful towards me, most of them are quite liberal and know what's up...

You mention that you’re worried in someone finding you and the government doing some bad. Could your picture posted contain geographical data?

I made sure to remove it. Thanks for the concern :)

What do or would friends and family of you both say that are about the same age? I get that older generations would probably be concerned or have an issue with this. But how is it amongst our generation?

As I've stated in another reply, only a few of our friends know, and they think it's really cool.

Through your courtship, what was the biggest surprise to find out regarding the other persons culture (or religion)? Something you didn’t know or were wrong about?

I've had no idea how similar we are, and I never knew that there are so many liberal Muslims...in Israel they're usually very conservative.

How did you meet, and where?

On campus. We took the elevator together twice, on the 2nd time I asked her out.

She said she was Iranian, I said "oh, I guess we can be best friends then", she asked me if I'm an Israeli and we laughed out asses off.

Just like that? "Hey, wanna go for coffee?"

I actually played a game where the loser pays for coffee, and I've lost on purpose

Maybe at a peace summit?

I wish...

If you ever have children, will you raise them as Jews or Muslims?

That's a tough one...kinda makes me not want to have children :(

Sorry but I don't have an answer for you at this moment...

I know it's none of my business but an approach could be to let the kids be. Let them choose to follow whatever they want once they have the tools to come to that decision.

That's true, but even now when I'm an adult, I still don't fully understand how religions work, and it's hard not to be biased when your family is pressuring you...

Is she a exchange student from Iran?

Yes, she is.

Are you a practicing Jew?

Is She a practicing muslim?

Are there religious barriers that make courtship harder?

What are both of your views on having an Israeli state?

Are both of your political opinions left leaning based on the assumption you are both university students?

What activites don you two do together?

Have you each learned a lot about each others culture sijce dating?

If applicable, how is schwarma?

Does she have to wear a full veil burka in public, a plain hijab, or nothing?

Thanks in advance I hope for the best!

I'm not a practicing Jew, but she prays from time to time. Since we're both secular, there's no conflict of religion, actually, I think that in the modern era, religion is one of the main things that hold this world down.

Being an Israeli, of course I believe we deserve our own country...she thinks the same thing, but it was hard for her to understand the conflict.

I'm right-wing, while I can say that she's pretty much left-wing.

What activites don you two do together?

Everything any other couple is doing :) Go out to restaurants, bowling, concerts, stay up till late to binge Netflix

Have you each learned a lot about each others culture sijce dating?

I was very ignorant towards the Iranian culture, especially because of the way that my government portrays it. They're amazing people!

If applicable, how is schwarma?

Not so good in Europe, but I don't frequently eat fast food.

Does she have to wear a full veil burka in public, a plain hijab, or nothing?

She only has to wear hijab in Iran, so nothing. Most Iranian girls hate it, and wear nothing in Western countries.

I experienced sort of the same thing as you but as an American with the Russian people during the Olympics. I like to think of myself as a very open minded individual but it was still really mind blowing just how much ingrained hatred or propaganda was in the back of my head in regards to Russians that had just been ingrained to be there. Russian people I got to know really well while working over there felt the same way. It’s crazy how much our governments can make us hate a bunch of other people even though it’s only quarrels with government vs government really.

Referring to shwarma as fast food is mind bending as an American. It seems so insulting

I aggree.

And Israeli Shwarma is still the best I've ever had (and I've had plenty), and it's sold as fast food :)

She only has to wear hijab in Iran, so nothing. Most Iranian girls hate it, and wear nothing in Western countries.

Care to comment on the "hijab by choice" type media campaigns we see in western culture?

Her words, not mine:

Hijab started off as means of oppression, but since the rise in Islamophobia, it became a symbol of religious freedom.

I think it's pretty damn stupid that people actually fight over this, but I guess westerners have waaay too much free time on their hands.

would you like a cookie?

I'm trying that keto thing, so only if it's carb free.

Would you like a new user agreement?

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אנשים רואים את הקשר שלכם מוזר באירופה? כי כמו שציינת, אם זה היה קורה באירן או בישראל, זה היה ממש בלאגן.

how does people sees your relationship weirdly in Europe? Like you said, if it would happen in Iran, or Israel, it would be a really mass.

ושיהיה בהצלחה גבר, מקום לידה לא אמור להשפיע על האהבה.

We've only told a close group of friends, they think it's cool...

ותודה אחי, אתה צודק :)

بهش بعضی فارسی یاد می دهی؟ بهت بعضی عبری یاد می دهد؟

Salam, chetur ke?

I know only a few words, mostly naughty ones like kooni, pashmam, betohma etc :D

She's really interested in learning Hebrew as well.

So I'm guessing your family background isn't iranian-jew (kind of thought that based on the context)?

I'm a Russian-Jew

Who's the better cook?

It's not a fair comparison since as I'm broke I have to cook all my meals while she can afford going out, but we both agree that I'm the better cook :P

How much is the Mossad paying you?

Is she an agent of Iran herself?

Will there be a way to mix judaism and islam such that the common traits are used and the uncommon ones are ignored [circumcision of a boy, no eating of pork, having one day a week off for prayer, but not: bar/bat mitsva, no ramadan, etc...]?

How much is the Mossad paying you?

If only...sadly I can't keep my mouth shut, so I'd probably be a bad agent.

Is she an agent of Iran herself?

That would be hot.

Will there be a way to mix judaism and islam

I don't think so. Both religions are built upon preserving themselves.

How accurate do you think media portrays Iranians? Has your view of Iranians changed after seeing her? How about her view of Israelis? I wish she was here so I could ask the same thing from her!

Israeli media doesn't usually focus on Iranians, more than their leaders. I thought they're a bunch of assholes.

I haven't had much idea about Iranian people, but the more I've got to know them, the more I realized how awesome they are, and I wish we could put our differences aside.

I wish she was here so I could ask the same thing from her!

Maybe one day she'll do an IAmA as well :)

What are your plans for the future? Marriage?

Elope?

We're both quite young so we don't know. I've discussed marriage in another reply though :)

How do you (both) feel about the Israli settlements and occupation of the Palestinian territories and fairly obvious ambitions for a one-state solution? For instance, are you in agreement on one side of the conflict, or do you basically consider yourselves as non-participants/-partisans of that whole thing?

Personally, even though I'm right wing, I wish my government would stop supporting the settlements. I hate backseat politicians so I can't really say what's the best solution, and can I only hope they know what they're doing.

As someone who infrequently visits Israel, all I care about is my family's and my own safety, like everyone else...

She had a few thoughts of her own regarding the conflicts (which many people who never visited Israel/Palestine carry), but once I've explained the situation from both side, it helped her to better understand why it's so complicated, and that there's no simple solution.

How would visiting each other's country work? Do you need to get a special visa? Is that even possible?

I was actually wondering myself.

I can't visit Iran, and if I'll try it will probably cause a diplomatic catastrophe. She can probably visit Israel with a 2nd passport.

Do your parents and/or hers know about your relationship?

As I replied in another comment:

Here's the thing...My dad is an IDF officer, and I don't want to risk ruining his career. They take such things quite seriously, you can't have any contact with the "enemy" when you're exposed to sensitive information.

From her side, she's really scared for her family's life. She told her brother and sworn him not tell anyone, he thought it was cool.

So...we haven't really told anyone except for a tiny group of friends.

What are your views regarding your prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu?

What are your views regarding the military strength of pakistan?

What are her views regarding pakistan? (Does she think they help iranians or palestinians)

What are your views regarding your prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu?

He's really bad, but currently, there are no other viable options...all other candidates are spineless.

What are your views regarding the military strength of pakistan?

Based only on videos I've seen, I wouldn't undermine it.

What are her views regarding pakistan? (Does she think they help iranians or palestinians)

No idea, sorry :) I will ask her when I'll be back from my trip

Earlier you stated that modern religion is what holds this world down. Do you feel more it is money and people of power just use religion to manipulate their people? I've been thinking about this lately. I would really appreciate your opinion here.

We've actually had a discussion about this. I truly believe that the rich religious people are not that religious themselves, and are just using it as a mean to brainwash people, so they can get even more rich.

Do her parents know or approve?

It's best for them not to know, so no.

We're both at our 20's; she's an Iranian Muslim, and I'm an Israeli Jew. We're living together in Europe.

On many issues I identify with the progressive and all, but has it crossed your mind that your relationship is possible largely because of the bolded part?

Yes. Obviously none of us can visit the other's country.

Knowing that your two religions are the only thing that make it worthwhile to host an AMA, why would either of you still support religion?

You can't really "get out" of an Abrahamic religion...it also has a lot to do with family and traditions.

Were you in IDF?

Yes, I was in the air force.

[deleted]

No :) We were both wearing shorts.

Is your name Zohan?

Cool movie!

What kind of music do you like?

Depends on my mood, but I enjoy everything - from classical music, to rap and black metal.

I'm a big fan of Infected Mushroom!

Hi :) The threat is very interesting, read almost everything, thank you! I'm engaged to an Israeli but I'm german, so we don't have such problems as you guys, so the best luck! My question would be where do you study in Europe? Because funnily enough we also met at med school :p

Czech Republic :)

I wanted to study in Germany, but German is too hard!

I gotta give you props for that. I wanted to date this Iranian girl, I'm American, but she got alittle jealous cause I was talking about my Chinese friend in front of her.

How does she feel about her country's threats against hers and how would she feel if Israel attacked the other?

Is there any loyalty to the countries?

Oh I feel you about the jealousy thing...

We sometimes joke about Israel being sneaky and wanting to get their hands on Iranian oil and money, but in reality, we know it's serious. I'd like to add that Iran has been threatening to destroy Israel for some time now, so it goes both ways...

Is there any loyalty to the countries?

Like many other Iranians, she wants her country to change to a secular one, she believes that the mullas are destroying it.

I'm loyal to my country. I've served for 3 years in the IDF and I'd do it all over again anytime (it was fun as hell, too)

What is serving in the IDF like?

Really depends on where you are. I was in the air-force, so my conditions were really good. My base had a pool, gym, cinema and plenty of awesome people.

Aren’t both Israelis and Iranians very secular? I doubt there would be many barriers in your relationship.

There are different groups of Israelis and Iranians - in Tel-Aviv and Tehran yes!

How has the recent news surrounding the Iran deal made the relationship between your birth countries more volatile? And do you just see the relationship between the countries getting worse before it gets better?

I think the Iran-Israel relationship is currently quite bad, and it was affected due to the recent events. I hope that the relationship will get better soon...but I don't think that it would happen with their current leadership.

How does she feel about the settlements on the west bank?

We both hate them.

If you both have a few children, and if they don't practice any of the religion of your home states (Judaism or Islam), they will be "half-Jew" and non-muslim, and the grandchildren will probably be classified as "non-Jew" with some Jewish heritage and some Iranian heritage.

Is that correct?

I haven't looked into the definitions, but AFAIK in order for the child to be Jewish, the mother has to be Jewish as well. In Islam it goes by the father, IIRC.

You've described some of the arguments you've had as a couple as "just politics," but I'm curious about how either of you disassociate enough to imagine that "politics" does not describe explicit genocide of the other group? You seem scared to reveal the relationship to each other's families because the information could destroy actual lives. In what capacity does this constitute "just politics?"

I'll be honest with you, I think that even if war happens, it wouldn't involve the genocide of the other group. Both Israel and Iran are too smart to do anything drastic.

Just politics = Israelis are rather indifferent to Iranians, and Iranians are sick of their government threatening everyone. There's no underlying cause for an Israeli to hate an Iranian, and vice-versa.

At what age did you make your first million?

To be honest, I'm completely broke.