UPDATE: I got my anonymous cyberstalker of 1.5 years arrested for harassing me and threatening to shoot up the college where I teach. AMA!

Wow, I remember reading the original AMA you posted. I am glad that she is getting the help she needs!

How did your friends and family feel about this?

Also, is an Order of Protection just a restraining order? Or does that mean that you have 24hr surveillance?

Some of my less-forgiving friends felt like she deserved jail-time. They just didn't like seeing me go through what I did with it all and are being protective and defensive for me, which I appreciate.

My family is on the same page as me, generally. They feel like the stalker got a second chance at life - as if she could have done worse to someone else if I didn't take this seriously or the court system didn't.

Edit: typos

As a student who had a psychotic break and accidentally cyber stalled someone for a couple months, thank you for not sending her to prison. I revived meds and was better shortly after but had to spend a lot of time in court.I was never threatening, just confused. But the fact that I almost went to jail for a considerable period for getting sick and sending some creepy messages is scary. EDIT: I never meant to minimize the persons suffering on the other end and I certainly feel bad that it happened. It is a serious issue. I was only relating my experience.

I'm sorry you had that scare, but I'm really glad you are feeling better now.

Order of protection is the same as a restraining order, just a different name for it.

"She opted out of learning sign language at a young age"

This sounds like a serious failing on the part of her guardians, educational system. Any idea how young?

Thats kinda common among people who can still hear a little bit. I dont know about the girl, but for me, i never really cared to learn sign language at a young age for several reasons.

1) without my hearing aid i am almost completely deaf, yet with a combination of good hearing aids and lip reading, i still do alright. I was already different from my peers, i did not want to be more different.

2) I grew up in an area where i never met or interacted with deaf/hoh people, even in school. All my family and friends hear well, and I use an FM in school. Becouse of that, i had no reason to learn, since i have never needed to communicate with deaf ppl.

So, it is kinda reasonable for her not to learn. (Dumb, yes, unreasonable, no)

Thank you for sharing your perspective on this. You gave me some insight into why she might not have learned sign language that I didn't consider before.

Really important to recognize that being different is already so difficult, so if there's any way to avoid further differentiation it makes sense to.

You may not see this, but watch "Sound and Fury" on Netflix. It's all about two groups of people with deaf children. The show really highlights why the deaf world doesn't enjoy when hearing people pressure them to change.

I feel like this movie would give you a whole new insight into what that student was thinking.

I've watched it and actually taught it before (although, not for her class).

There's actually a second part to that film - a follow up. Very interesting.

Was it ever determined why she chose you in particular?

No, but I imagine her therapist would have some theories by now!

I have a few theories. One of which has to do with the fact that she was romantically attracted to me, at least on some level. Her messages were often very conflicted: she thought I was pretty, liked me, and wanted to just be my friend, but then also expressed hate for me and wanted me to feel afraid for my life. Perhaps she resented me while at the same time admiring me? She might have been dealing with some sexuality issues and I was an easy target because I study the psychology of sexuality/gender and am pretty open about my open sexuality. Since she has such terrible communication skills, this might have just been a kind of "cry for help" in dealing with her own desires.

I remember your last AMA, glad to hear a follow up.

If she has such terrible communication skills it's likely she never had romantic or sexual contact with a boy or girl before. Since you were so openly sexual you became her only human source of sex and romance, even though it was one sided, since with you she was interacting with a real person as opposed to pornography or romance novels. Getting any attention back would have been stimulating, even if it was negative.

Basically, she was like a dog locked in a basement and you were her chew toy, her only source of entertainment, so you became her whole world. Once she's able to talk to people other than her mom, she'll probably move on.

Also, now that the court case is over, is there any information you can give that you held back last time because the case was ongoing?

I think that's a pretty good interpretation of where she was at.

I've given all of it and would prefer not to elaborate more for the secrecy of my own identity and the identity of the stalker.

considering your theory in the above reply as to why she chose you, have you modified your communication or teaching style? do you share any less of your own experience or personality, for example, in favor of a more distant academic presentation?

It's actually kind of difficult to modify because the area I teach is gender and sexuality. Students then draw their own conclusions. Once she stalked me online a little, she was able to connect the dots.

Do you think you could have met her and become a friend early on instead of shutting her out? This is assuming her early messages weren't too threatening.

At the advice of a detective who said he would go with me to a meeting and arrest her, I actually responded to her once to find out who she was and see if she would meet. But she refused.

I think this was really bad advice from the detective - I would never recommend anyone reach out to their stalker under any circumstance or try to meet up with them (esp without a detective involved) because I think it can only instigate more stalking. Stalkers are not always the most mentally stable people. It's highly unlikely that you can just become their friend and things will be fine from there. Let the police handle it and then you can determine whether or not to press charges from there.

Very heartening to see someone display the compassion you have. I think most would want her 'locked away' & punished. Kudos to you!

Has this experience changed you view of your students or people in general?

Thanks! I feel like she was "punished" enough already for a first time offender. She spent two nights in jail and she's had to deal with this embarrassment for a full year. Also going to therapy on such a regulated schedule cannot be the most fun thing in the world. And on top of all that's going to end up with something on her record. So...justice has been had.

This has not had an effect on my view of people, I have always been a rather compassionate person. But, it unfortunately has had an effect on how trusting I am with people. Even though the circumstances were totally out of my control, I definitely don't put myself out there as much as I used to. It's been hard, because it's part of who I am to be a very open person.

Also going to therapy on such a regulated schedule cannot be the most fun thing in the world

Going to therapy can be unfun to start with, but hopefully by the end she'll be enjoying/appreciative of it. Would suggest a turnaround.

That's my hope too :)

As far as being punished.. she was pre-punished, just look at how she got where she is at. That's why therapy and restraining order is the correct response, imo.

Exactly. She obviously got to this point based on some shit in her past. I hope she can resolve at least some of it now in therapy.

I have friend who is actually going through something very similar to what you have been through. I wanted to get a second opinion on a couple of questions if you don't mind. 1. Were you in fear all the time? 2. Did anyone think you were over reacting?

1. I was afraid all of the time. But was also able to suppress it at certain points as an adaptive response because of how long it went on for. I needed to continue with my life and got a lot of support from people around me who helped me focus on my life. Walking home was always a problem, though. And there were times when the threats got serious that I was literally jumping at everything and everyone.

2. Hmmm, usually when I described things to people they were amazed and angry that I was having to experience what I was going through. A few people didn't realize how bad it was until I was able to explain it to them in detail. Other than that, pretty much everyone was like "how are you even functioning normally right now?"

I can understand the reason u/Helorix asked question number 2. If someone is stalking you but are clever about covering their tracks, it does appear to others like you are making everything up. That is a hugely frustrating position to be in because it feels like your the only person on your side, without support. In addition to that you have to face off against both your stalker/harassed and disbelievers, which, frankly, totally sucks.

I got lucky because (1) she got sloppy in the end and started to reveal information about courses she was taking. so i took a page from her book and cross-referenced some rosters, contacted professors, and worked with college admins to identify her and (2) i'm pretty sure she didn't think i was reading every message because I stopped all online activity for about 6 months at the end of it all. i think she was pretty sure she could say anything and get away with it. but i was reading all of it

the mods can confirm, at the very least, that the stalking happened, that i have an order of protection, that i am faculty at a college, etc. but that's all i can share to prove it, unfortunately.

Are you afraid she will see this?

Nah. And even if she does, it doesn't matter. She has every right to see it so long as she doesn't end up harassing me again. And if she did, it's a problem between her and the judge, not with me anymore.

[deleted]

No time to watch! Were they any good?

What was her motive in stalking you in the first place? Did you fail her or something?

I was in control of grades in the course, but she was failing most (if not all) of her courses. So the fact that I was a target had to be something else.

Check here for my longer theory on this.

This is a super interesting AMA, thank you for doing it.

Hahaha, you're welcome u/SECRETLY_STALKS_YOU

All of this strikes me as strange. Not only on her part, but from you as well.

Obviously she was wrong to threaten and harass you. But as an educator you are still bound by Student Privacy laws. The fact that she did something wrong, even committed a crime, doesn't excuse you from that.

Not only that. One of two things is happening with her "therapist." Either you are embellishing what you learned, or you were told way too much. If this case had gone to trial, a lot of her psychiatric problems would have been a matter of public record. But you told us that a plea bargain was accepted. (Even if it was done in a hearing, in front of a Judge, that doesn't make her medical history public record) So again, either the ADA or therapist are overstepping some pretty big boundaries, or you're adding a bit of "flavor" to your AMA.

Either way, its pretty clear that the "stalker" wasn't the only one with a dire need for attention and validation in this case. I'm all for people sharing their experiences online, especially Reddit, but when things stand out so much, its hard to not be forced to realize that your motives are slightly, if not more, self serving.

I'm sure there are plenty of people out there more than willing to accept your account at face value. And that's fine. I'm sure I'll be downvoted by a few (or maybe a ton) of them as well. But when I choose to share something, I don't do it with the express intention of getting recognition or Karma.

I understand all of your concerns. But everything I have said is what I was told. I have no reason to make up any aspect of this story. And this is a throwaway account, so its not for the karma. I also do not give my identity away...so this is not for any sort of "recognition."

My intentions are purely informational. As an educator of psychology, one of the biggest ways that we can all learn from each other, how to deal with similar situations, how to perceive our fellow humans, is to hear each others' stories. I did this AMA to share mine and to provide information and to be a resource for people. Not too many people talk about these kinds of stories because they bring people a lot of shame (e.g. "What did I do to make this happen"). But I have received many private messages (and comments) from people sharing similar and worse stories. The information I was able to share with them, I hope, has helped them in some way even if it's for a piece of mind that they are not alone in their experience of this.

As for Student Privacy, I have not once mentioned the college, her name, my name, even the state I am in. I feel that her privacy is protected. I don't know much more about court rules than what I have experienced with this, but all I know is that the ADA told me about her in order to be very clear about why things were taking as long as they did, why she was going to mental health court, why she was doing a conditional plea, etc. I appreciated their transparency, considering I am the victim. Perhaps things policies are different in your state?

Will you be filing a civil suit against her/her family to recover legal fees, lost wages, etc..

No, there's no reason.

I didn't higher a lawyer. And my employer was very understanding of what I was going through, so I didn't lose any wages because I was allowed to work from home.

After she finishes her year of therapy sessions, is anyone going to monitor her on her progress, socially, mentally, etc?

That will be up to the therapists' recommendations to the judge. Based on their expertise, if she needs more, they will recommend it.

How did you approach the police with this information? I don't think you can just call 911 for this kind of thing.

I actually did the first time. When I realize I had a legitmate stalker it was 3AM and I was too frightened to leave my apartment.

The next several times, I filed complaint reports every month or so since the contact was so frequent. I would go to them and just be the squeaky wheel. They would tell me it was just "some old boyfriend" or something or dismiss it as a serious thing. But I went with print outs of what she would say and would wait the 2 hours it sometimes took to get someone to take down my account.

It was annoying, but well worth it in the end. Squeaky wheel gets the oil.

[deleted]

Yes, I had all of the evidence laid out. I took advice from lots of people and documented everything that was sent to me from the stalker. Every message, picture, comment, text messages, emails etc. I put all of it on a flashdrive and brought it to the precinct.

One time I had to ask to speak to a supervisor because they were just generally being really shitty about getting back to me about things (e.g., a subpoena on a phone number and IP address she had used to contact me). I got really demanding on the phone with the supervisor until he set up a meeting between me and a new detective. That detective had been injured recently, so he could devote the time to going through all of my evidence.

I found out the identity of my stalker about a month later, on my own, anyway. But things were already moving in the right direction with that new detective.

What exactly did she do? You may have talked about this before, but can you go deeper into "cyber stalked"? Is it more then just like following all of your social media?

This is a list of the content of her messages to me that I submitted to the police:

• expressions of infatuation with me
• expressions of anger toward me and people I am friends with
• descriptions of slaughtering my roommate's cat
• knowledge of my home address and path I walk to the college each day
• knowledge of my family's home address and threats that she is stalking their house
• knowledge of my daily activities
• images she has obtained of me sometimes altered in a threatening way (e.g., drawing a wound on my head and a rope around me with the description "this is how I will take you away")
• threats that she would kidnap me
• extreme hate and anger toward gay people or perceived gay professors
• racist, homophobic, and anti-Semetic remarks
• extremely grotesque, disturbing, and violent images
• discussions about her family member's guns and where they are located
• desires to "kill" members of my college community and "shoot up" the college

And this was all while not having any idea who she was. I didn't know her gender, age, size, or proximity to my home.

Eesh! That is really quite scary. I realise I'm hijacking the previous question here but just as a follow up to this: At any point during the ordeal did you really think she would actually genuinely hurt/kill you if she was given the opportunity?

Thanks very much for doing this AMA! I couldn't be as forgiving and level-headed - as you evidently are - had I gone through the same thing, kudos to you for that!

I always had to keep the idea that she could actually hurt/kill me in my head, simply as a protective measure.

It was interesting though, because I also had to convince myself of the opposite so that I could continue with my life and not let the stalker "win" by turning me into a total recluse.

[deleted]

Yes, very. This is exactly what I was hoping for her - to get help. And for me - to have the harassment end.

[deleted]

Well put. And thank you for saying it because it's 100% correct. You never know how these people will respond or how serious their threats are - so you have to take all of it seriously.

Do you believe the court would be as lenient to your stalker if she was a man?

I would have advocated for her in the same way. So I would hope she would have received the same treatment.

I'm glad to hear that this is (at least for now) working out well for the two of you. Do you have any desire to talk with her (in person) once she has completed all of her legal obligations, or are you fine with getting updates from the ADA?

Thanks

I just want to get updates from the ADA. I wouldn't want to trigger anything in her again. The therapist said she was possibly having multiple "psychotic episodes" whenever she would harass me, so I wouldn't want my presence to stir that up again. She needs to get on with her life, and I with mine.

Could give us an example of the things she would say?

Yes, I wrote about it here.

I remember reading your previous ama.

Do you ever feel like this could happen again, with a different student or person in general, since going through it already.

Absolutely. I am much less trusting of people as a result of this experience, especially because I know how random and easy it is to get a stalker. My last AMA proved that to me even more with the volume of messages I received from people describing their own experiences.

Would you want to communicate with the stalker ever again? Did you ever contact her about why she was doing it?

I would not want to communicate with her again. When I had no idea who she was, I did contact her once on the advice of a detective. He wanted me to try to find out if she was just a friend messing around with me. So I tried to find that out. But she was impossible to talk to - was all over the place with her messages and would not say who she was. So I never contacted her again after that.

Not so much question, just wanted to quote you here:

Despite the hell I went through with this, I have a lot of empathy for her. Even before I had confirmation of all of her personal challenges, I never wanted her to go to prison in the first place and I do not believe in jail time as a correctional method. I feel like this is the best kind of r/JusticePorn because she's going to get the help she needs, society will (hopefully) gain a functioning member by the end of it all, AND I am personally not being harassed and threatened by her anymore.

... and say "Yes!" I am so glad you can see things this way! So many of our "criminals" are people with mental health issues, addictions, trauma/abuse/neglect in their earlier lives, and/or even conditions like Foetal Alcohol Syndrome/Effect. They need help, not jail. How much would we save on prisons and other aspects of our criminal system if everyone with any such conditions got the help they needed?

I'm sure it must have been quite frightening in the middle of it all, and I wouldn't blame you for being really angry and vindictive at the person. I think it says a lot about you that you are glad she's getting the help she needs. Brava and kudos!

Thanks and exactly what you said. It's why I am a psychologist - I'd rather we spent money as a society on making people better than on putting them in jail.

How was the anonymous stalker identified?

She got sloppy and started talking about specific courses she was taking. I was able to cross-reference some rosters and work wit the college to get her identity confirmed. That, paired with the fact that she was already a "problem" for the college (academic probation and behavior reports submitted by other professors) were red flags.

Interesting take on this. You're more forgiving than I think I could be in the situation, but at least the issues are known to everyone now and she'll hopefully get the help she needs.

That being said, I hope everyone she knows who owns a gun keeps them locked up tight and her away from any access, preferably for the rest of her life.

Agreed. She has several family members on the police force here--which was the guns she was referring to when she threatened to shoot up the college.

Apparently these police family members were very supportive of the court's decisions moving forward with the case. According to the ADA, one of them apparently said, "She got herself into this; she needs to deal with the consequences."

I'm a prosecutor and rather interested in victims rights. So, I had some questions about your experience with law enforcement.

How were you treated along the way? Were the police and the prosecution receptive of your claims? Were you in contact as the case went on? Did they ask for your input at critical stages such as bail, release, and the plea offer? Were you ever afforded a chance to attend or speak at any of the hearings? Was it ever explained what would be expected of you if the case proceeded to trial?

Also, harassment and stalking cases are often low on the radar. Most everyone has unwanted attention from another person at some point in their life so law enforcement has a lot of trouble sorting out the noise from the legitimate signals. In your case you had violent threats against you and the school. Did you feel the violent threats were a driving force in law enforcement involvement? In other words, if you had simply received unwelcome and unsettling, but otherwise unalarming, contacts do you think you your case would have received the same response?

I know I'm late to the party here, and I don't expect you to answer every question in detail. It would just be cool to glean your general experience with law enforcement, and any response is appreciated.

All great questions and I'm happy to answer...

How were you treated along the way? Were the police and the prosecution receptive of your claims?

I actually left in tears from the precinct several times because of the disrespect I received. I got a lot of comments like, "you're wasting our time because is going to stop tomorrow" and "this is probably just some upset ex boyfriend." While that may be true for some; it was not true in this case. They literally told me once that they couldn't take it seriously until someone is standing in my apartment with a gun to my head. I felt very unprotected by them for the majority of the experience. I had to ask to speak to a supervisor at one point so that I could get a detective to seriously take a look at my evidence and put through some subpoenas. They started taking me much more seriously when I went higher up like this. This new detective was VERY nice, too, and actually took the time to go over everything with me and ease my mind a bit. But that was near the end when my own investigative work lead to her identity and then her arrest immediately after that.

Were you in contact as the case went on?

I think I was only called voluntarily by the ADA maybe once. I called once a month to get updates, and when I did, they were very forthcoming and really just great people (there were two ADAs that I spoke with the most).

Did they ask for your input at critical stages such as bail, release, and the plea offer?

In the beginning when she was arrested, yes. They called me frequently and took my entire account down, listened to the whole story start to finish and took it very seriously. After that, I made most of the contact.

Were you ever afforded a chance to attend or speak at any of the hearings?

They asked me and I said I didn't want to because I didn't want to trigger anything with her and that I would be uncomfortable with it. They never asked me again, and that was fine with me!

Was it ever explained what would be expected of you if the case proceeded to trial?

Yes - I was told that I may have to go in, but that I could ask to have the ADA stand for me.

Did you feel the violent threats were a driving force in law enforcement involvement? In other words, if you had simply received unwelcome and unsettling, but otherwise unalarming, contacts do you think you your case would have received the same response?

The detectives were already willing to arrest her before she made the threat against the college. The threat just heightened the severity of the case and for what she was charged. I got the sense that they were ready to arrest her from maybe 6 months into if they just had an identity for her. I attribute this mostly to my persistence, however. If I wasn't as persistent as I was, this could easily have been shrugged off.

• Have you read up on similar cases online? What was the outcome?

• Would you feel better or worse if it was a guy stalking you?

• Which was your scariest moment of this whole situation?

Yes - most cyberstalking cases where it's near impossible to identify the perpetrator are never resolved. The stalking continues or sometimes will die down after a few years. Others will escalate more and more (a more common outcome) and someone will end up getting physically hurt and the case becomes a very different kind of case (no longer just about stalking). The latter is what happened with mine; it escalated, but instead of anyone getting physically hurt, I found out who she was before she could carry out her threat against the college.

I have to be honest, I would feel worse just because of the threat of rape. But either gender, I was afraid for being violently hurt - a person can pick up a gun and shoot it regardless of her/his gender.

There were a lot of scary moments. The most scary was probably the moment I realized that I actually had a legitimate stalker. That was the first night I called the cops.

Llamas or Alpacas? Which is the better animal?

Llampacas.

Do you like bacon?

I love bacon.

how did she get into college if she was this mentally challenged?

We don't know if her IQ was low, only that she had a hearing impairment which does not say anything about her learning abilities. And I do not know her records - she must have had good enough grades in high school to get her to college. At the college level, students can opt into getting extra help or not through a disabilities office. She just opted not to.

Do you know why she didn't learn sign language? It seems odd that someone would choose to basically be unable to communicate.

I have no idea. Apparently her mom allowed her to make this decision. Her therapist told the ADA she has "selective mutism."

what's it like teaching at a community college? (i was planning to get my masters and then teach at a CC)

I don't have any experience teaching at a CC

How do you feel about the possibility that she might just decided to shoot you while you're walking to your car one night? Or go after your family if you have one.

These possibilities were exactly the reason why I was afraid all of the time.

I am not too familiar with the entire story, but you mentioned that she can read lips. I've always wanted to learn that but has her skill ended her up in trouble before your incident?

I'm not sure what your question is, but I probably should have been clear that she can read lips a little bit - still not very well.

This is also anecdotal information from the ADA who met her. And her mom shared this information with him.

get yourself a carry permit, or at the very least, get a taser.

Its nice that your issues have maybe saved this girl from doing something psychotic....but there may come a day when she goes off the reservation and you'll be glad you have a gun on your hip.

I'm just saying...its never a bad thing to be prepared...especially when you have a stalker

I am not worried about this happening again with her. But I do have pepper spray just in case!

[deleted]

If it's stopped, there isn't much you can do.

When this sort of thing starts, you should go to your local precinct immediately and file a complaint report. If it never amounts to anything, at least you covered yourself - because if it did turn into something serious, you have record of it.

What are the chances that she's faking all of this now?

You said she was a student of yours, how is that possible given all her "issues"?

I doubt she is faking any of her mental issues because a therapist evaluated her and confirmed it.

She was a student, but she was on academic probation and had also received several behavioral alerts from issues in the classroom that other professors at the school had referenced. These were made totally separate/different from the stuff I was going through.

You are clearly a very compassionate, level-headed person to handle this the way you have. I don't think I could accept this girl not being in prison. She sounds very disturbed and I don't know if my fear would allow me to be concerned for her well-being. Good on you for trying to help her. I truly hope the therapy helps and she leaves you alone.

My question: If she ever did try to contact you again and threaten you, what action would you want the ADA to take? Would you expect/want her to go to prison for her actions?

Basically she would be arrested again and the judge would take over from there. I would trust the judge to make the right call on what to do.

She has to go to outpatient therapy 5 days a week over the next year to address her communication issues, social issues, and underlying mental health issues

wow. who gets to pay for all this?

maybe tax payers? that or her family, I'm not sure...that's a good question!

Its not stalking, its getting to know you better. Shame on you

Hahahhaa. If only it were ;)

did you give her a bad grade? sleep with her boyfriend? why was she stalking you?

There is no rhyme or reason why. She was a student in a class of 600 students, so I barely even interacted with her--if at all. I don't know why she was stalking me, sometimes these things happen and there is no reason other than I had an email address and she was able to find out some info about me on the internet, enough to develop an infatuation.

Well, its a good thing your keeping this private otherwise people on social media sites would know about it. Perhaps you would like to post your telephone number as well.

Oh yes my number is...

Ohhhh you almost had me!