Detailed .pdf

My family appreciates the outpouring of support. However, as we have said since the beginning, we will not condone any sort of threat of violence against anyone. Police Officer or not. My family has been greatly affected by this situation, but that does not change the respect that we have always had for the men and women who serve their communities.

Comments: 885 • Responses: 90  • Date: 

orangejulius216 karma

Did the police department do anything to make it right?

FermentedGrog316 karma

Several days later they called to offer us a voucher that the Humane Society had donated to cover the costs of adopting a shelter animal.

DramDemon377 karma

So they shot your dog, and then just said "Hey, go get a new one"? That's fucked up.

FermentedGrog469 karma

We didn't feel like it was an appropriate response.

orangejulius136 karma

talk to a tort lawyer. coming onto your property and firing off guns around your family is generally considered a bad thing. the police probably have an exception - but you may as well get a free consultation and see where you stand in terms of your rights.

FermentedGrog176 karma

We have retained counsel. The general counsel for The Lexus Project has agreed to represent us.

designgoddess37 karma

Lexus Project does good work. I hope they can get some justice for you. I'm sorry about the loss of your dog.

FermentedGrog27 karma

Thank you very much for the kind words. We consider ourselves lucky to have such experienced counsel.

designgoddess5 karma

Just sad that you need them. Good luck. I've shared your story.

FermentedGrog7 karma

Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

ReasonReader35 karma

Not a lawyer, but off the top of my head, you've got them on criminal trespass, destruction of property, reckless endangerment, brandishing a firearm, illegal discharge of a firearm, assault, and I'm sure your lawyer can come up with a dozen more felonies, misdemeanors and torts these criminals have committed.

FermentedGrog7 karma

I would have to refer to my counsel.

Zenpig13 karma


FermentedGrog19 karma

They are aware that we are actively seeking attention.

Almost_Ascended59 karma

That's like shooting a kid then offering the parents a free adoption of some other orphan.

FermentedGrog161 karma

I would never equate a dogs life to a humans life. However, Willy Pete was most certainly a member of our family. It almost did make us feel like the suggestion was, "Hey maybe you can find one that kinda looks like Willy". We all know that dogs are irreplaceable individuals.

jungl3j1m16 karma

Worse, you have to retire an awesome dog name (for white phosphorus).

FermentedGrog20 karma

Thats why I named him Willy Pete.

ryan2point08 karma

I would make that comparison. I'm not like a dog nut or anything but they have feelings and personalities. Hopes and dreams.

I'm really sorry your family has had to deal with this.

FermentedGrog64 karma

I would never devalue a life. I personally believe that all life is special. That said, even I can imagine circumstances where an animal would need to be killed in order to preserve the safety of humans. This was by no stretch of the imagination one of those situations. My dog never posed a threat requiring deadly force, especially when the application of that force endangered my family.

flyinhyphy-3 karma

You seem like a pretty level-headed guy given the circumstances. If that had happened to me I'd certainly trade one of those fuckers' lives for my dog's.

FermentedGrog41 karma

Im not trying to take your ability to have an opinion away, but threats of violence only allow people to marginalize our message.

Anthonypull113 karma

Did they all go unpunished?

Also this one may be too personal but what brought them to your property to be there? Did they have legal premise (warrant and whatnot) to be there?

And of course, what's the name of the officer who shot a retreating dog?

FermentedGrog145 karma

We have no information regarding any disciplinary action taken.

They were on our property searching for a person that they allege shot at an officer and then fled from them. Im not an attorney and cant speculate on the legality of anything.

The pdf attachment in the post is a detailed open letter which we have released regarding the incident. They identified the officer as Sgt S.T. Harper in my "proof" link.

Anthonypull47 karma

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry for your loss :(

FermentedGrog46 karma

Thank you very much for responding. Please download the pdf and help us get the word out any way that you can.

Anthonypull18 karma

Will do.

FermentedGrog20 karma

Thank you. My family appreciates it.

xela8814 karma

Surely the way to get the word out is to take legal action?

FermentedGrog38 karma

We are in the process of filing a federal lawsuit.

half_cocked_jack57 karma

Well then you should probably get the hell off of reddit. Legal damages are worth more than karma and you can only hurt your case by talking about it on the internet.

FermentedGrog34 karma

I could not care less about reddit karma. I know that reddit is one of the most powerful tools somebody in my position has available to them. We arent afraid of jeopardizing anything, because all we have is the TRUTH.

dohjoh72 karma

flush out your head gear new guy what does the truth have to do with the legal system

FermentedGrog14 karma

I just refuse to believe that this kind of situation is the status quo.

foofightrs77725 karma

You are missing the point entirely. Truth does not necessarily equal a successful claim. If you want to seek justice (whatever exactly that means to you) stop grandstanding on the internet and talk to a lawyer or someone who can actually help. Statements you make on here can and probably will be brought into court and will probably be mischaracterized and used to attack your credibility. So seriously, my heart goes out to you and yours, but you probably aren't making the best decision by talking about this on reddit without guidance from an experienced professional.

In fact, many lawyers will probably ask you about the things you have done including whether you have made statements online or in a public forum. Hopefully this doesn't come back in a negative way.

FermentedGrog17 karma

I am not grandstanding by any means. I did not come to the decision to do an AMA lightly and my only intention is to garner support and raise awareness about these issues. My attorneys know full well that we are actively seeking public attention.

BeerInTheBabySeat2 karma

Sadly, just like every other case of police brutality, none of the officers will face discipline.

FermentedGrog5 karma

That is not for me to decide.

EBeast99-25 karma

I'm pretty sure they need permission to be on property none the less. It's basically one of our amendments except in this case, it's police officers. If they weren't clearly identifying themselves as police officers, I would have retrieved my weapon and fired back. As far as I know, several men loaded for bear are trespassing on my property and if they think they can shoot at a family member of a Marine and live to tell the tale, they better think again.

FermentedGrog3 karma

Again, im not an attorney and we dont condone any threats of violence. I dont think you are either as a lot of people have said they would have responded that way. This just goes to the point that if training were in place to avoid these kinds of situations, everybody involved would be safer.

kapelin56 karma

I am very sorry for your loss. Recently we had an incident in Baltimore where a woman's Shar Pei had gotten loose and was found in a parking lot. The dog was scared, however not aggressive, and an officer had it under control with one of those sticks with a loop at the end. After the dog was under his control, he stabbed it with a knife, killing it. The entire community was devastated even if we didn't know the woman or her dog, and there have been fundraisers for dog charities in the area.

I know that story has nothing to do with you, but yours reminded me. Anyway, I'm very sorry and I can't begin to imagine the frustration you must feel. As for my question, did the evidence really support the claim that they shot your dog while he was within feet of the officer? I imagine it would be easy to see if the dog was shot while running towards the house.

FermentedGrog34 karma

We are familiar with the story, and our hearts go out to the owners. We would also like to thank those that have banded togethor to support them.

As far as the necropsy goes, I am not qualified to interpret the results. However, I will say publicly that my dog had one entry wound and no exit. The results are not consistent with being shot 3 times at a sharp downward angle as is reported in the WVSP press release.

BeerInTheBabySeat17 karma

In the Chicago suburbs, off duty police shot a dog because the cop felt threatened. By a chihuahua.

FermentedGrog7 karma

Obviously im not familiar with the intimate details of any other sutuation. The sheer number of these incidents should warrant further investigation.

ScannerBrightly3 karma

Did they recover the other two bullets?

FermentedGrog3 karma

We arent aware of any recovered bullets.

ScannerBrightly5 karma

This might be worth looking into. Borrow a metal detector and find the other bullets, but don't pull them out. Take a ton of photos, see where they are in relation to each other.

Could be valuable info.

FermentedGrog3 karma

Thank you very much for the advice.

Sparkykc12452 karma

Have you contacted your state legislator or governor? What if anything was their reply?

FermentedGrog76 karma

Not directly. Due to the attention we received in local media a member of the WV State Legislature (Mike Manypenny) openly called for an investigation in a letter to Gov. Tomblin. We have not been contacted or received any information regarding an investigation.

Sparkykc12456 karma

Keep on him! Without pressure it will amount to little more than lip-service/pandering.

FermentedGrog35 karma

We plan on asking people to call on their local representatives to join Mr. Manypenny in his call for an investigation.

RunswithWalrus19 karma

Manypenny is a good rep

FermentedGrog25 karma

He definitely impressed us with the courage it took to stand alone and request an investigation.

RunswithWalrus10 karma

Yah he's a good politician amongst WV standards, hi there from Morgantown!

FermentedGrog4 karma

Hello neighbor! Lets go Mountaineers!

hobblingcontractor4 karma

This is just Reddit advice, but I've had the whole "Write your Congressman" thing work in my favor previously. I don't think a quick letter to your federal rep would hurt.

FermentedGrog2 karma

We are asking people to contact their local legislators to find out what the policies are regarding domesticated animal encounters.

dragonslayer_perseus48 karma

Do you blame the police officer that shot your dog or the entire police department for your loss?

FermentedGrog125 karma

I feel like the officer made a poor decision to shoot at my animal. Especially considering he endangered my wife and children in doing so.

I certainly blame whoever is responsible for the statement they released, as it is almost entirely false as it relates to the shooting of my dog. I also feel like it is their responsibility to train their officers so that situations like this dont happen, at least this way, in the future.

mage_g452 karma

Sgt. S.T. Harper is responsible for three of them.

It sounds like this total bastard has an issue with domestic dogs and an itchy trigger finger.

I have two dogs and I can't imagine how awful this must be for you. :(

FermentedGrog25 karma

In my mind it at least needs to be considered.

funkymoves9145 karma

Sad story, but I tend to want to verify everything I read on the internet. I'm not saying you are lying, please don't misunderstand me.

I would just like to know if you have any proof supporting your side, because the link you provided kinda makes me believe the "official" story. There are aspects which are not in your favor (apparently you are relatives of the suspect...that is a fact and it caught my eye). As for everything else, it's just one side of the story so without proof, the "official" story has absolutely no value to me (and your side does not as well).

Ideally, Police officers would always wear cameras recording what they do so that they are accountable, but this was apparently not the case here. Maybe you have surveillance footage ?

I've seen many videos where police officers shot dogs even if it was not absolutely necessary, but in most cases the dogs were aggressive and it's not hard to understand how the officer came to shooting the poor dog : I'm in danger, I have no specific training and/or equipment to handle this situation, either I shoot or I can get hurt/killed. In your case, the police apparently came to your house/garden, so they might have been tresspassing. If your dog was secured (couldn't get out of your garden), they should have just retreated. If your dog was able to attack them and was not attached to something, then they had to defend themselves somehow.

quick edit : I might add that I really hope you have proof, because if you go to court with this, it's going to be your word against the officer's word. And sadly in those cases I think that the officer will have more chances of winning.

TLDR: Need proof. "He said", "We said" has no value.

FermentedGrog13 karma

We have a necropsy report from our animal which refutes the statement of events released by the WVSP. When I have been advised to release that report publicly we will. I must say again, my animal was not in violation of any laws.

funkymoves915 karma

Good if you have proof. Apparently this thread was closed due to lack of proof for your AMA, but as long as you are OK in court, you'll be able to make the officer pay for his mistake.

FermentedGrog10 karma

I have provided additional proof to the mods. I believe the post has been reinstated.

bisnotyourarmy24 karma

The dog was running towards your wife when they shot at him. Tome this places your wife behind the dog (police pov). How far away was the dog from her when it was shot?

FermentedGrog25 karma

My wife was at the top of the steps of our porch where Willy Pete got up from. After the first shot missed he turned to run for my wife. My wife remembers three more shots being fired after he turned. He was close.

bisnotyourarmy43 karma

So the shots endangered your wife? I would add that to your lawsuit. Sorry for the loss and best of luck.

FermentedGrog51 karma

Our attorneys have a detailed understanding of what took place that day. I would have to defer to them for specific legal questions.

OmnipotentStudent13 karma

You're handling this very well. All the best to you, I know I'd be heartbroken if my dog was killed.

Fermented Grog? Why the username?

FermentedGrog20 karma

Quite honestly I couldn't tell you. It kind of just came out of nowhere. Thank you very much for the kind words. We are still very much heartbroken. As clich├ęd as it sounds, Willy Pete really was my best friend. He was with Ginger and I through some very tough times. Please help us to spread the word by sharing our story wherever you see fit.

Snlseanconnery12 karma

What legal recourse do you have against them?

FermentedGrog29 karma

I cant speak to the legalities of anything involved. We have retained counsel and have to direct those types of questions to them.

We are in the process of filing a federal lawsuit seeking a requirement that officers be trained in how to handle encounters with domesticated animals. There also needs to be some kind of independent oversight. We get news of this happening almost every day at our Justice for Willy Pete FB page.

JohnParish12 karma

You said in your PDF that you have proof that there was only one entry and no exit wound. Can you post that?

FermentedGrog17 karma

No. We haven't released that publicly. Im not a veterinarian or an attorney, but the report is definitive.

irnidotnet7 karma

Did the necropsy show any evidence that the bullet struck Pete from behind, showing he was running away from the officers? I would think that would be damning, and the smoking gun.

FermentedGrog6 karma

Im not qualified to interpret the results. I have stated publicly that my dog has ons entry wound and no exit. As soon as we are advised to release it publicly I will.

Displodes6 karma

I know that losing a pet makes the home feel a lot more empty, I can't believe they'd shoot your dog if they had their own (K9) and know how close people get to their animals. Do you think you'll get another dog anytime soon?

FermentedGrog4 karma

Its devastating to lose a pet under any circumstances. Its bad enough to deal with an animal that is sick or getting old. These kinds of situations allow for no planning or consideration for preparing yourself to deal with the loss. My wife will forever be burdened with the image of Willy Pete desperately running to her for help.

Ive said all my life I would have a dog for as long as I live. We still have our basett hound to keep us company, but honestly right now I cant even think about getting another dog.

EBeast996 karma

Did the men identify or had any visible identification (PD patch or something similar) that they were officers with the PD?

FermentedGrog8 karma

There was an increasing police presence by our house that day. Ginger first noticed a police vehicle around 11am with more and more vehicles arriving, including a helicopter. She never saw the K9 unit until the SRU came out of the woods with it barking. She said they looked like soldiers in an active war zone.

rabidpiano865 karma

This may seem like a morbid question, but please believe me it is not. Did Willie at least go down quick? He didn't suffer did he?

FermentedGrog8 karma

He ran behind our house and died by our air conditioner. Ginger ran through the house to the back door hoping that they had completely missed or that he was just wounded. She watched him choking and gasping for air before he took his last breath.

Aaronmcom5 karma


FermentedGrog4 karma

I have provided additional proof to the moderators. Hopefully the post will be reinstated.

Stewpid3 karma

Why didn't they just taze him? Everyone knows that dogs will investigate strangers with dogs coming onto their territory and that it is natural for those dogs to be protective. It is negligent for the cops to not have a procedure for such events. These events are predictable and are likely to result in discharge of firearms under dangerous circumstances. Unknown people, children, and pets can all be the unintended victims of such shooting events.

FermentedGrog10 karma

I wish I could answer that question. There are any number of ways that this couldve happened without my dog being killed and my familys safety being jeopardized. The officers that killed my dog were part of a Special Response Unit of the WVSP. These are the people that respond to the most dangerous types of situations. In my mind, if anybody should have training in place as to how to deal with a domesticated animal its these types of units. As awful as it sounds, Im very lucky that instead of burying my dog I could have been burying my wife or one of our little girls. That is the fact that keeps me awake at night staring at the ceiling.

DoctorDetroit83 karma

Do you have surveillance camera video of the incident?

FermentedGrog5 karma


azsheepdog3 karma

FermentedGrog4 karma

We have been in contact with the producers of the project.

azsheepdog4 karma

That is good. It sucks that this happened and happens WAY more than most people think. It is good that you are getting the word out and there definitely needs to be some policy changes put in place.

FermentedGrog4 karma

Thank you very much for your support.

breaktsky2 karma

Well, I cannot even begin to say how sorry I am about this. I don't necessarily have a big question, but it makes me angry that our (I live in WV) has another thing to be judged on. I suppose my questions are 1. What does your wife think about this? 2. Are you pressing charges? 3. What was your dog like? I have one myself and I can't imagine if this happened to her.

FermentedGrog5 karma

  1. Ginger is absolutely devastated. I cant imagine having to deal with what happened to her.

  2. I would have to defer to our counsel for that answer.

  3. He was great. He was with Ginger and I during the most difficult time of our lives. He was the most loyal dog I have ever owned.

WhyRag2 karma

Would you mind if I submitted this story to another site I frequent? Assuming they post it (which I think they would), it might get even more attention on a nationwide/worldwide basis.

FermentedGrog9 karma

We are begging people to share. Please feel free to disseminate the .pdf wherever ypu see fit. Do so knowing that you have the appreciation of my family.

Fashbinder_pwn2 karma

99% of "Police did X to me" reddit posts are generally undone when you read more than the title. eg. the front page post about police punching a restrained guy. I laugh and think "well, don't spit on police and you wont be punched." I found no such undoing in your story.

Do you think a 12 year K9 handler, 2 year instructor doesn't love dogs? Had the madman who was shooting at police entered your home, would you want the swat team to enter your property if they believed he was there?

Sorry for being devils advocate :(

FermentedGrog2 karma

I cant and wont speak to his feelings. What I will do is my best to make sure thag the truth of this situation is brought to light in hopes that it will prevent another family from having such a terrible experience.

I absolutely would have wanted them to intervene.

susanshoos2 karma

What can I do to help you?

FermentedGrog2 karma

Share the .pdf as broadly as you can. Search "Justice for Willy Pete" and support our facebook page.

HareScrambler2 karma

Any luck on getting your relative, Jonathan Wade Jeffers, off the streets and back in jail where he belongs?

FermentedGrog2 karma

Neither myself nor my wife Ginger are related to Jonathan Jeffers.

nickydisko2 karma

Were you aware before this about how insane Americas policing is? I feel like everybody ignores these stories until it happens to them, despite hundreds of fellow Americans complaining constantly..

FermentedGrog2 karma

I was most definitely unaware of the frequency of these types of incidents. We are commited to changing it for the better.

reloadreddit2 karma

What are you doing about it?

FermentedGrog3 karma

We are planning on filing a federal law suit. We want there to be training in place on how to deal with similar situations. We also feel like there should be impartial oversight.

NevadaCynic2 karma

Did your lawyer really give you the ok to publicly discuss what either is or could become ongoing litigation? And if so, was his law degree printed on a bar napkin?

FermentedGrog2 karma

Our situation was made public almost immediately afterward. All we are doing is telling the truth about what happened.

smpk1 karma

WTF where armed police doing in the woods? And why did the shot your Dog?

FermentedGrog2 karma

They were searching for a fugitive. They claim my dog approached them in a threatening manner and they waited until the very last second to fire on him.

ProfessorMelonHead1 karma

What exactly happened?

FermentedGrog1 karma

In order for you to have a detailed account I would direct you to the .pdf attached to the post. Or you can search "Justice for Willy Pete" on facebook.

varietygamer1 karma

So you're sharing this just to piss us off? Go do something about it, we can only sit here and click on things.

FermentedGrog1 karma

No, absolutely not. Im sharing this to bring people to the startling realization that this kind of thing happens way to often in the US. We need all manners of support. We are pursuing a law suit and need financial support to cover the gigantic costs associated with pursuing real legislative change.

FermentedGrog1 karma

Well im off to bed. I'll check back first thing in the morning and will be available all day tomorrow for answers.

hateitorleaveit1 karma

What's it like living in West Virginia?

FermentedGrog5 karma

Im a Floridian by birth, but a West Virginian by choice. I haven't had the opportunity to travel much, but this is the most beautiful place ive found. Unfortunately, the economic situation isn't as pretty. The people here are the most kind and genuinely good hearted people you could ever hope to find. There are some nasty stereotypes out there, but they don't have any truth to them here on the ground. West Virginians are proud of their history and the culture that is the backbone of what it means to be Appalachian.

Lovelyhippie4201 karma

What did you do about it?

FermentedGrog5 karma

After they released a large statement to media due to the initial backlash from the public we made a very hard decision to dig up my dog to have a necropsy performed on him. The results show my dog only has 1 entry wound with no exit. The WVSP state they shot my dog 3 times within 3-5 feet with an assault rifle.

Lovelyhippie4201 karma

What was their excuse?

FermentedGrog5 karma

I cant speak for the WVSP. The statement that they released claims that our dog came charging at them barking and growling with his teeth bared and hackles raised. My wife absolutely denies that.

weenort1 karma

All the more reason for these guys needing to be wearing a camera with footage that the public can subpoena

FermentedGrog0 karma

We arent sure they werent.

kaiserw1 karma

What kind of asshole shoots a dog in the back? I'm sick of all of these stories of cops shooting "aggressive" dogs. Mine would be the ones running at the cop barking and looking for some petting. I'm sorry for your loss and hope your family is doing okay. If you need any financial help I will be the first to donate! This guy needs to have repercussions.

FermentedGrog1 karma

The unfortunate part is that a lot of people automatically assume that the police were faced with a bloodthirsty killer of a dog. I certainly would never suggest that those kind of encounters NEVER happen. All I can account for is my dog, and he most definitely did not fit that description.

mnbookman0 karma

I once had a dog run over by a lady who was doin g 75 in a 25. It happened right in front of me. She came back and I thought to myself, "This is the angriest I will ever be, but I didn't want to pull on her."

Reading your story, I'm angrier. How did you keep from turning into Rambo?

FermentedGrog0 karma

Im so sorry that you had to see something like that go down.

First of all im not Rambo. I was at work at the time. My wife says she remembers thinking after the first shot that she was in danger and that our little girls would be left unattended in the house. The thought of her being faced with that is one of tje most agonizing things im left thinking about every day. If I had been the one on the porch I dont know what I wouldve done. I dont know that I wouldn't have run to get my dog, and god only knows what could have resulted.

kranatomy-1 karma

Have you shared your story with /r/Libertarian and /r/Anarcho_Capitalism? Two good outlets to share this story and take action! EDIT: formatting

FermentedGrog2 karma

No we haven't as of yet. Im fairly new to reddit and have been searching for subs to try and get the word out. Thank you so much for the suggestion.

kranatomy2 karma

You're very welcome. So sorry for this incident but unfortunately it is becoming a story all too common. I hope there is accountability and justice here.

FermentedGrog1 karma

Thank you so much. Please help us share the facts of our situation any way you can.

Miss_Noir2 karma

I'm so sorry this happened to you. Also try /r/WestVirginia

FermentedGrog0 karma

Thank you for the kind words. We will definitely post there. People all over the world have shown us support, but the support of our neighbors carries a special significance.

deadcat-2 karma

How the hell are American cops such useless fuck ups?

I can't imagine the Australian cops shooting my pet.... or me.

FermentedGrog0 karma

I definitely do not categorize all of them that way, but there does need to be attention drawn to these incidents. It happens far too often.

SoImpossible-2 karma

It's seems like they acknowledged their mistake and even helped with the burial and such. What do you really want from this? It seems like a mistake was made.

FermentedGrog1 karma

Im not aware of them acknowledging any wrongdoing on their part, and I wont speculate as to why they were so interested in burying my dog. We want this situation and the awareness around it become the catalyst for real changes to be made to training and oversight.

420swagyoloblazin-3 karma

Why do things like this only ever happen in america?

FermentedGrog6 karma

Since this happened to us on 6/24/14 we have received notices of these types of incidents happening almost every day. We are doing our best to spread awareness about the need for officers to have training on how to deal with domesticated animal encounters. We also think there is a need for impartial oversight for when these tragedies happen.

Bjkimm-3 karma

How many teeth do you have?

I'm really sorry for your loss. I would kill a motherfucker who even made my baby cry.

FermentedGrog9 karma

All of 'em. 'Cept them bigguns in the back they pull out. You wouldn't be playing on an old, antiquated stereotype would you? All joking aside, thanks for the support.

ReeceTayTay-4 karma

Those bastards. They think because they are cops they can get away with anything and they can. If they killed my dog I would kill them. Anyway my question is what do you think the people can do to see propper repercussions to policemen for their crimes?

FermentedGrog43 karma

I refuse to lump all law enforcement officers into the same group. The overwhelming majority of them are very brave people who deserve our utmost respect.

As far as our situation goes, I think any person with common sense would expect that when questioned in this fashion they should have a system in place for independent third party review. Their statement is a declaration of what they consider to be "facts" resulting from an internal investigation.

HenryDorsetCase11 karma

The overwhelming majority of them are very brave people who deserve our utmost respect.

Except those "good" cops do nothing but turn a blind eye to all the real pieces of shit on the police forces, which as far as I'm concerned, makes them just as bad.

FermentedGrog5 karma

We have to believe that people wont allow for what has happened here. Police officers deserve our respect for their bravery and service. However, what happened to my family was flat wrong.

working1013 karma

I'm sorry for what has happened to you but in all my interactions with the police, one thing is blatently obvious. They don't deserve our respect. Respect is earned. They are no more brave than the men and women doing hundreds of thousands of jobs out there of equal or greater importance.

FermentedGrog12 karma

I really am sorry that your experiences have led you to that conclusion. I dont mean to assert that law enforcement officers are "better" than anyone. Its just that they do get up every morning knowing that they could be placed in a life threatening situation while coming to the aid of innocent people. The people that execute that position with dignity and honor deserve our utmost respect and gratitude.

ReeceTayTay6 karma

I agree with you completely majority of cops are hard working outstanding people who I thank for their service. IA is screwed up and needs to be more strict and swift with their punishments. There should be no exceptions to the law. Also as a dog owner I would like to say I am sorry for your loss

FermentedGrog6 karma

Until that day I had never had a negative experience with a law enforcement officer. Thank you very much for your support. My family appreciates it.

Van_Hellsing-4 karma

What is the most politically incorrect opinion you hold?

FermentedGrog3 karma

I don't know if it qualifies as "politically incorrect", but Im not so sure that the majority of people elected to office remain dedicated to promises they made during their campaign, or if that once elected, their focus becomes how to stay in office.

noodlesdefyyou-6 karma

This entire AMA sounds like total shit. Your 'proof' is a news article, and your pdf is a file-download that anybody on here should be smart enough not to download.

you should probably submit your license to the mods for verification (instead of posting it here for obvious reasons) so they can verify you.

i read the news article, and read some of your questions. hell, i can do an AMA based on the news article being as vague with your answers as you are.

FermentedGrog6 karma

I have never done this before and will prove this is my family and my dog in any reasonable way. If you would be kind enough to specify where I have been vague I will do my best to provide honest and detailed answers.

As to the .pdf all I can say is that it is a copy of an open letter that we have distributed widely on the internet. It is uploaded to the most reputable site of its kind that I could find.

Moritsuma-8 karma

Why would you allow your dog to roam freely outside, off a leash in the first place? Something was bound to happen. You may think your pet is the most well behaved creature in the world, but when other people see an animal hounding toward them. It's easily taken as a threat.

FermentedGrog1 karma

We live in a very rural and secluded area of WV. My dog was on literally more than 100 acres of private property. West Virginia has no leash law, and we broke no laws that day. Ginger was not aware of the K9 unit until it came out of the woods barking. Had we been asked to bring our dogs in we would have absolutely done it. I was concerned for the safety of my wife and children that day. After I was comfortable that the police were aware of their presence in my house I never even considered for a moment that something like this would happen.

All that being said, hindsight is 20/20 and my advice to anyone would be to make sure and bring your dogs in when there is any kind of police presence on your property.

Another_Fevered_Ego-25 karma

What do you hope to achieve from all this?

Suing them won't bring your animal back. It won't stop the police from doing it again. It was an unfortunate accident. There have been people killed in real negligent ways without the amount of awareness your case has recieved. I'm sorry for your loss, but move on.

FermentedGrog14 karma

We hope that the WVSP will step up and start requiring officers to be trained.

We are doing this so the next time a situation like this occurs they will be better prepared,resulting in a safer interaction for everybody. God forbid the next incident could result in somebody getting killed or seriously injured.

Another_Fevered_Ego-5 karma

I hope it all turns out for the best. It may be too soon but you should. Consider saving a dog's life by adopting one. Good luck OP.

FermentedGrog6 karma

Thank you for the support. If you find it in your heart to spread the word about it, my family would be very appreciative.