The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution


I'm Douglas. Some of you might know me from elsewhere but right now I am the Social Media Coordinator and Interim Press Coordinator for Restore the Fourth. /u/BipolarBear0 and I will be taking questions for at least an hour. Here are some other folks that I hope will drop by to answer some questions as well...

/u/veryoriginal78 - Our National Coordinator

/u/scarletsaint - Lead organizer in Washington and our Outreach Coordinator

/u/Mike13815 - One of the lead organizers in Buffalo and our Marketing Coordinator

/u/neutralitymentality - One of the lead organizers in New York and Assistant Press Coordinator

/u/vArouet - Lead organizer in New York; he probably won't be available for a few hours but he told me he will visit some time after 6 EDT


subreddit: /r/restorethefourth


List of Protests:




Donations, which we just finally started taking this morning, will be used for an advertising blitz tomorrow and what's donated after that on setting up a long-term organization dedicated to protecting the 4th amendment and ourselves from unwarranted surveillance. See the indiegogo page or ask a question below for more info.

6:32pm EDT Alright, after 3 and a half hours of focusing primarily on this and writing various long-winded answers, I need to focus on my many other Rt4 responsibilities for a while. Hopefully some of the others will keep answering for a bit longer. I will take at least one more look at this thread later on and address the more important things I missed - so remember to check back.

Comments: 1077 • Responses: 75  • Date: 

Kallistrate442 karma

No questions, I just wanted to say thanks for putting so much work into this. It's an important issue, and for those of us who feel strongly but are terrible at organizing, it's wonderful to have people like you all who have made it so easy for everyone else to show their support in other ways (showing up at the event, for example).

scarletsaint13 karma

Thanks for your support!

spacecowboy007123 karma

How big do you expect this event to be and what are some of the things which are holding it back from being larger?

douglasmacarthur148 karma

How big do you expect this event to be

We have had representatives from more than 75 cities in contact with us. As of this morning, there are 19 cities whose Facebook event page has 50+ RSVPs, and eight whose page has 100+ RSVPs (Dallas, D.C., NYC, Tampa, Chicago, San Francisco, Buffalo, San Diego).

Hopefully numbers will increase considerably these two days as national press coverage is picking up. That also doesn't include people who don't use Facebook which as you can imagine includes a lot of our crowd.

Even if your local chapter seems low activity or no activity or non-existent, we recommend just downloading our literature and getting yourself and a few friends together to pass out material at whatever location and time advertised, or wherever 4th of July event are taking place. Even if no one shows up but you, you'd have made a difference. At the end of the day it's about getting the message out not getting fancy photos of large crowds. Well get enough of photos like that from Dallas, DC, and NYC, don't worry.

and what are some of the things which are holding it back from being larger?

We could have gotten a lot more promotion and sooner if we had been better organized sooner. And gotten the advice needed for local promotion out to the local organizers a lot sooner (they didn't get it until mid last week). But I know our whole team is working hard and that our local organizers are working even harder. Being grassroots and volunteer and online and working to a short deadline - less than a month between the 4th and when this was first being put together by then-anonymous college-aged strangers - puts up a lot of obstacles but we're willing to deal with whatever we have to in order to get this done and our ability to self-organize has increased considerably, and that's a big part of why we've gotten so much large scale promotion together in these critical last few days.

Edit Of course, you can help us promote by donating to the online advertisement blitz we're sitting up for tomorrow!

spacecowboy007101 karma

It also seems like the idea of attending a protest is unappealing to a lot of Americans....unless they perceive it to be huge. Sad but true.

douglasmacarthur146 karma

This is one of the reasons we encourage local organizations to make it as fun and hospitable as possible. Some of them are bringing free food and drinks to give to people.

One criticism we've gotten about the date is that we'd be "competing" with the celebrations. But we aren't' competing with them. We are integrated with them. The 4th of July is already about what we're protesting. What better time to fight for your rights or inform others of the need to than when you're already celebrating the ones you have?

Many are going to be nearby and concurrent with local 4th of July festivities. Local organizers can use that very relevant type of event to provide people more information.

Our National Coordinator sells fireworks for a living... that's how damn connected to the 4th of July this is.

walruscode49 karma

One criticism we've gotten about the date is that we'd be "competing" with the celebrations. But we aren't' competing with them. We are integrated with them. The 4th of July is already about what we're protesting. What better time to fight for your rights or inform others of the need to than when you're already celebrating the ones you have?

People couldn't care less about the Constitution, as it turns out. Everyone I've talked to about Restore the Fourth has declined, citing 4th of July celebrations as their reason. People would prefer to sit around all day eating barbeque and drinking beer, instead of doing something that might actually require effort or thinking. It's disappointing.

edit: couldn't care less... oh god

douglasmacarthur103 karma

What do you do while you BBQ and drink beer? You talk to your friends! What better thing to talk to them about than the future of the nation they're currently celebrating? Set it up so you can BBQ and drink beer with them while you discuss the constitution and hand out literature. Effort and thinking aren't in contradiction to food and drink. Just try to keep it down to 2-3 beers, at least until later that night.

Metabro8 karma

Is this a protest or a party?

douglasmacarthur38 karma


zaikanekochan55 karma

Do you expect this will have any real-world impact, or do you think this will end up being mocked like the other two "major" grassroots movements, Occupy and the Tea Party?

Mike1381570 karma

We are different for a number of reasons:

  1. Our purpose isn't to protest. Instead, our rallies/protests are to gain support and visibility for our goals. Making the Fourth Amendment a "Hot Button Issue" come election time is well within the realm of possibility. The hope is to make any opposition to the idea of privacy "Political Suicide"

  2. We represent everyone. While Occupy and the Tea party mostly contained specific sides of the political spectrum, we encompass the entire map of it.

UniversalPolymath33 karma

While Occupy and the Tea party mostly contained specific sides of the political spectrum, we encompass the entire map of it.

Occupy claimed to represent the entire spectrum as well, under the moniker of the proverbial "99%". It wasn't an inherently partisan group, and it was tailored to the interests of the vast majority of people; it just happened to be heavily comprised of lefties.

The philosophical conversation aside, do you have a feel for what the actual political makeup of Rt4 is or will be perceived as?

douglasmacarthur22 karma

Occupy claimed to represent the entire spectrum as well

Right, but it didn't. It was, in my opinion, based on an economic doctrine most Americans - for better or worse - disagreed with.

it was tailored to the interests of the vast majority of people

It was tailored to what OWS thought was in their interests but not what all of those people necessarily did.

just happened to be heavily comprised of lefties.

I imagine that wasn't their intention, but when it works out that way, you need to rethink your efforts to be non-partisan. Our support has been more diverse and because we are so focused on keeping it that way and are single-issue and what we're defending (the 4th amendment) is widely popular, we believe we will be able to keep it diverse.

The philosophical conversation aside, do you have a feel for what the actual political makeup of Rt4 is or will be perceived as?

It is genuinely diverse. That's not just a slogan. We have gotten support and have worked with liberal groups, conservative groups, and libertarian groups alike. Some local protests are being hosted by the local OWS chapter. Others are being hosted by a local conservative group.

scarletsaint15 karma

I know for DC we truly have a non-partisan makeup of supporters. We have support from the Bill of Rights Defense Committee, The Libertarian Party, Codepink, Demand Progress, Defending Dissent. We also have support from people like Rand Paul, Alex Grayson and others. As far as rally participants, I have been speaking with people from all walks of life. I think that when it comes to this event we have found a common ground that allows us to reach across party lines.

zaikanekochan4 karma

I will agree with 1. But as far as 2 is concerned, I know that it's a varied ground, with a foundation in a singular goal, but I am not convinced that the media will see it this way. And if they see it another way, then their viewers will undoubtedly dumb it down into mockery. How do you intend to make sure that the message is clear, concise, and easily understood/replicated?

Mike1381513 karma

the message is clear, concise, and easily understood/replicated

We are tackling this by using the actual text of the Fourth Amendment as our position.

douglasmacarthur23 karma

We are already being mocked in some places and will continue to be. That's a given. Anything with sufficient visibility will be mocked by someone. The question is whether being mocked becomes the dominant narrative. I think we can prevent that.

I wouldn't treat it as a given that Occupy and the Tea Party accomplished nothing, even if the results were disappointing. Even in so far as they were ineffective, they've helped just by being an example for us, helping us learn about what works and what doesn't.

One way we think we will have more impact is that we are a genuinely non-partisan movement focusing on one critical issue, and that will allow us to build up a broader range of support. Even if we aren't as visible as either of those groups yet (we're working on that) we are already far more diverse. Despite what many within each claimed, Occupy was generally perceived as a left-wing movement and the Tea Party as a right-wing movement. Republicans were never gonna join Occupy and Democrats were never going to join the Tea Party.

Associating yourself with either came with a ton of baggage, socially and otherwise. Rt4, by contrast, isn't here to talk about who should be able to get married or what the tax rate should be or even what countries the US should invade if any. We just think the US government should abide by the constitution - meaning not spying on its citizens without a warrant or probable cause - and even more importantly in my opinion, that federal agencies shouldn't lie to Congress about their ongoing programs, which the NSA has been doing continuously for more than a decade.

Another way we think we will have more impact is by (hopefully) setting up not just protests but a long-term infrastructure to take part in legal action, political lobbying, and the like. But first we need to promote the issue itself.

fsu_pdt43 karma

If these programs have been approved by courts how are they unconstitutional?

douglasmacarthur31 karma

The court system doesn't (and couldn't) pre-approve every particular thing the government does. While there are certain license-granting documents they provide (like warrants) in many cases it makes agencies, and lawmakers, accountable only when the case is brought up after. The PRISM scandal hasn't been fully accounted for by the justice system because it was secret. What court approval it did have was from secret courts, which is a whole issue in and of itself. The judicial branch of the federal government is only just beginning to truly address this PRISM issue and that is something the ACLU is working on now. We look forward to seeing the results.

Additionally, while the rule of law and the balance of powers requires such discretion about how the constitution is applied to ultimately be up to the courts, that doesn't make every court decision right. The Supreme Court has made decisions endorsing the constitutionality of slavery. The constitution is the constitution and in so far as the courts continue to give legal sanction to unconstitutional programs we need to use the various legal and political means available to improve the court system.

Mike1381543 karma

I am the R4 Marketing Coordinator.

Although it says I am Lead Organizer in Buffalo, I am not anymore. (I'll still answer questions about buffalo, though!)

I'd be happy to directly answer any ideas/questions/comments that pertain to marketing the movement!

Thank you.

ChemicalRocketeer23 karma

Do Buffalo buffalo actually buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo?

Mike1381563 karma

Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo. But sometimes they don't

douglasmacarthur12 karma

Mike, since no one else has asked you a question directly: is there anything that can be used nationally you've produced that's still not on Or any info on Buffalo that's been left out? Let me know and I'll add it ASAP.

scarletsaint25 karma

I am the Organizer for the R4 D.C event. Please feel free to ask me anything!

douglasmacarthur14 karma

How do you think being close to Washington has affected the organization and will effect the impact of your chapter and your protest as opposed to those in other cities? ;)

scarletsaint12 karma

I think that being close to Washington puts us in a position to be more visible than some of the other protests, and gives us the ability to engage lawmakers more effectively. I think other people see it this way as well, and that is one of the reasons Washington D.C has the biggest turnout nationwide.

mcato2343 karma

Is there any coordination with local officials on the protest? Is everyone just going to show up and then have a bad time because of police intervention?

scarletsaint4 karma

I have coordinated with local officials and we have a police liason at our event. We are also required to have marshals as well.

theberrynator21 karma

While both the Tea Party and Occupy movements have been good in their respects, they both were hijacked by special interests pushed what many people consider radically right or left policies.

How do you plan keeping this movement the non-partisan national political movement America needs, and not just another radical political movement?

EDIT: changed bipartisan to non-partisan.

douglasmacarthur8 karma

I addressed on this a bit in another message but for instance by getting our funding from the community and not special interest organizations or organizations connected to either party or anything like that. We're also going to learn from the past to prevent this from happening. Staying single-issue will mean there's little to hijack in the first place - it's easy to turn more government spending or less government spending into your own irrelevant agenda. The 4th Amendment, less so.

inaft17 karma

Thanks for doing this, I'm glad to see people doing something instead of just complaining about it online!

I always wonder how much of an impact events like this actually have. I see a lot of them that just fade away without causing much of a stir. What do you think would have to happen to actually cause a significant change to occur?

douglasmacarthur19 karma

Thanks for doing this, I'm glad to see people doing something instead of just complaining about it online!

You're welcome! I hope you will join your local protest and help market it to your friends.

I always wonder how much of an impact events like this actually have. I see a lot of them that just fade away without causing much of a stir. What do you think would have to happen to actually cause a significant change to occur?

There are a lot of "events like these" and they vary from each other greatly in their impact, of course. Some are more or less impactful than others. The people who wrote the fourth Amendment were essentially a protest group and were probably the most influential group of people in human history, or at the very least among them.

Several things need to happen. For one, you need a broad and hopefully diverse base of support. For two, you need a concrete set of demands to define "change." For three, you need to set up not just a protest and other promotional work, but an actual organization that will keep you in the news long-term and provide the resources for people to take direct action (i.e. legally) repeatedly and persistently. OWS and the Tea Party each brought a lot of attention to themselves at first but changed little by failing do to those three things. Groups that have had more influence - like the ACLU and the NRA - have succeeded at those three things. We have the first two and are preparing for the third. We're not going to be just another protest. We're going to make this into a much bigger deal.

BrotherChe16 karma

KC Organizer here: My question, I saw that the national organization is now accepting donations. This is a major necessity but also a major concern.

I'm curious about how this is being handled:

  • What sort of organizational structure is being put in place,
  • how is the transparency of contributions being handled,
  • and the secure group management of any funds?
  • What kind of say do/will local chapters have on national structure and action?

edit: The reasons to ask about money are multiple:

  • Other activist organizations have had "loss of control over funds" issues in the past
  • We are contributing efforts to a "brand" that is being nationally organized, yet we currently don't know anything about those organizers.
  • There is always the real risk of subversion of the organization and the message.

I'm not saying we shouldn't trust you guys, nor that funds aren't necessary; but we need to know there is proper accountability in place.

douglasmacarthur34 karma

Great question. I love this question so much I am going to write you a thesis statement on it. Get ready.

First I'd like to note that before the indiegogo was set up we did ask the community for feedback and provide some of the info you're asking for here. We only got one response (from the NYC organizer, who had follow-up questions but supported the idea). Unfortunately most participants don't pay much attention to the daily meeting threads these days (which granted is partially our fault). It was in one of the recent ones, I think Saturday's or Sunday's.

What sort of organizational structure is being put in place

I touched on that here. To reiterate somewhat, basically what ended up being put together for the lead up to the 4th is a National Organization board of about 5 people that have spent a lot of time working on this together and trust each other and that have access to all of our accounts. And then on top of that 5-10 others that attend many of our voice conferences and whose opinion basically has equal weight if they give it, but who don't have full access, e.g. our web developer /u/winsmi, who isn't interested in having "full access" because he isn't really interested in issues outside of web development. And then we all take community feedback and talk to the local organizers (e.g. those of us focused more on local organizers will have conferences with various local groups, and the main Washington and NYC organizers are among those 5-10 "advisory members" of the "board") to make decisions about the National Organization programs.

While this system has served its purpose adequately, it's far from ideal and we don't believe it is sufficiently democratic or transparent for a long-term organization. How we're going to be structured long-term is something we're going to determine (and change) as soon as possible after the 4th, and I'll address this question further in response to one of your other questions.

how is the transparency of contributions being handled, and the secure group management of any funds?

We currently have the indiegogo running off of /u/scarletsaint's PayPal which she has used for Washington as well (don't worry, we know what is coming from where), because it was already set up and was of the right account-type. Andrea has done an amazing job in Washington, invested a ridiculous amount of time and effort despite having an active career, and has gone fully public on this despite having a career and reputation to protect. And she's already been handling Washington's funding, with no objections from the others there so far. So we trust her completely. Myself and Anna (/u/veryoriginal78) and Tyler and John, the four remaining "core" members of the national organization, also have access to the indiegogo but we wouldn't even be able to access the funds without Andrea, because they are instantly associated with the PayPal account.

Andrea will forward the four of us the transaction info when she disperses from her PayPal account. And on the weekend we'll make as much of that as possible public and I'll ask her to post the spreadsheets of her PayPal account from this week. Then I'll make some kind of public post with all this info explaining what we have left, what we've spent, and where it went and why.

The basic outline for the direction of funds is that contributions received by PayPal by 3pm Wednesday will be used on advertising Thursday's events, while those received after will help us set up the national organization. The "board" assigned Andrea to disperse funds and me to direct her on which actual advertising programs they go to. iirc non-PP contributions aren't accessible for a week or so, so if you want your money to go towards advertising Thursday's events try to use PayPal. Ask your friend to act as a proxy if necessary! That is in a legal, non-fradulent way ;)

What kind of say do/will local chapters have on national structure and action?

Currently: we know it's all about them and for that reason we help them and listen to them as best we can, and we have two of them advising our "board". I know the lack of direct, first-hand power on the part of local organizations isn't ideal, but that's a product of how this structure was an emergent process, and it's why we're going to change the structure after the 4th. John, who focuses on more "internal" issues, is currently in contact with potential legal advisers who will help us choose which legal identity to take. After getting legal advice and looking at our finances, we're going to convene with the most active and successful (in terms of turnout) local organizations next week and come up with a new long-term system both parties approve of, and that will probably have a board that is at least 50% local organizers.

I hope that addresses everything. Feel free to ask any follow-up questions.

scarletsaint5 karma

I couldn't have said it better myself!

floridaoldguy4 karma

there is no need for a protest to cost anyone, anything

killawhallle7 karma

As a local organizer, every dollar not necessary to live has been spent organizing my local event. So yeah, non-profit donations would help tremendously.

douglasmacarthur4 karma

Know that I love you.

douglasmacarthur4 karma

We mostly agree, or at least we did for a while, but we were receiving a lot of unsolicited queries about how to donate and we figured if we could give people a channel with which to put resources towards our efforts to defend the 4th, and they wanted to, we may as well.

Do Thursday's protests NEED donations? No, they absolutely will happen and would have happened regardless - or else we wouldn't have waited two and a half days before the protest to start taking them. Is donating as important as attending or promoting it on your own? NO - everyone should prioritize those.

But... Will these protests get greater attendance, exposure, and effectiveness if we have the funds to increase promotion? Yes. Do we need donations if we're going to create a longer-term organization that takes part in more than just protests? Yes.

The purpose of answering the question I was responding to originally was just to address concerns about structure and transparency anyway. If you feel donating isn't an effective way to contribute, we fully respect that and don't wish to pressure or even debate you on it. I hope we see you on the 4th!

HouseOfHouse9 karma

These are good questions. What exactly is the money other people have donated being spent on and who is in charge of it?

Mike1381512 karma

I'd like to point out local organizers are almost exclusively paying out of pocket for these things at the moment.

douglasmacarthur5 karma

Yup, you guys kick ass.

douglasmacarthur6 karma

Replied to the other individual.

Moh79 karma

Has anyone else noticed that its like 6 organizers who just upvote each other in this thread?

And these protest numbers are based on Facebook RSVPs, and as a general rule: for protests you always divide that number by 10.

So really only about 5-10 people will be protesting at each city. With a majority being anarchists that ruin the protest.

It's pretty typical now

douglasmacarthur3 karma

Has anyone else noticed that its like 6 organizers who just upvote each other in this thread?

I'm confused. What would be wrong with upvoting eachother, and how do you know if we are or not, and why do you care?

Adminerstraiter8 karma

I don't know why you are focused upon the NSA, it would appear by the released information, it is the FBI that captures the data, and is provided to NSA/CIA upon request.

Mike138153 karma

What released information?

Would you link to it?

hotprof8 karma

Do you think, given that the technology and capability exists to collect any and all of the data that modern humans emit, laws can prevent it from being collected?

douglasmacarthur18 karma

Yes. While new technology is a big part of this, I think its overstated. Think of how easy it would be to kill most people if you didn't care about their lives or about the consequences, and how many nukes we've built over the last 65 years without using any but those two. The world has - proportionate to population, and in terms of the long-term trend - gotten less violent over time and rights have been respected more, even as our means to be violent and to oppress eachother have gotten greater. Cultural philosophy and the rules and standards we set out for ourselves and eachother in how we relate to eachother are the variable, and have great power to make sure technology is harnessed for good instead of evil.

holla82838 karma

I've never protested in my life but I'm looking forward to making this my first. union square to times square baby

scarletsaint2 karma

Have a great time and thank you for getting involved!

fnordfnordfnordfnord6 karma

I know this may sound quaint. But, is anyone working on some visible flair or some kind propaganda? It is hard to advocate this issue to most people. Logos? Tshirts? Flags? Stickers? Snarky tag lines? Hashtags?

douglasmacarthur8 karma

Hashtag is #restorethe4th

Some marketing material like you have in mind is downloadable for you to produce on

There is also some stuff we haven't put up there yet, particularly that the community or other organizations have created for us. I am going to put some of it together this evening and link-to or upload it on the site but in the meantime you can check out some of the great submissions to /r/restorethefourth or the stuff in /r/r4marketing. You should find some extra material there.

dulocrazy6 karma

As odd and ignorant aas this may sound...I've never been to a protest..this is my first one and I don't want to fuck it up. What am I suppose to do?

scarletsaint7 karma

This topic I posted for dc today should help you understand what to expect:

Bringyourfugshiz5 karma

Why did you have to pick the one holiday I actually enjoy?

Mike1381515 karma

It shouldn't ruin your holiday. Show up at your protest with some hot dogs and a portable grill.

It'll be sure to make a lot of people very happy.

And besides, most protests are at noon. You shouldn't start drinking anyway until atleast two. Haha.

douglasmacarthur11 karma

Why did you have to pick the one holiday I actually enjoy?

We wanted to increase your enjoyment of it further.

It's my favorite holiday too, btw, and this is the best way I've celebrated it yet.

TheKeibler5 karma


douglasmacarthur5 karma

I should note that while he isn't referenced in the article, our unfortunately-former PR coordinator /u/RTFMicheal was interviewed by Mashable earlier and his contributions are (I imagine) in there.

"I think if you are on social media right now and political blogs, this might seem like it's an issue that's all over the political blogs,"

Oops! That should be "all over the media" or something. I wonder if putting "political blogs" twice was his mistake or mine.

Ruomlig5 karma

The city I'm in, Dayton, has no scheduled events on it's page. The next closest city, Columbus, simply links to a reddit user's name. Are things happening there, or not? This all gives me the impression that the protests outside of DC, CA, and NY are going to be miniscule.

douglasmacarthur4 karma

I'm going to personally investigate the list tonight and make sure active ones that fell through the cracks are added and inactive ones are removed so people know where to go instead. So check it out again tomorrow and see what the updates are.

You are right that a lot of the protests on the list are "suspicious" in terms of activity. There are more than three that will definitely have a big turnout though. There's at least 10 or so, e.g. the guys in Dallas and Buffalo weren't on your list but are doing a great job with marketing. My prediction is that we'll see 30-60 with a respectable turnout.

Anyway, this isn't the kind of thing where we focus just on getting the biggest crowds possible. You can get a million people to a single location for a protest and accomplish nothing (and it's happened). The point is to spread the word, and you don't need a traditional "protest" to do that. You don't need to travel anywhere or use an event that is listed on the site. If there's nothing nearby, consider just downloading some of our literature and printing it off and letting some people at your local 4th of July festivities know about this thread to our privacy and to the constitution.

Iam_TheHegemon5 karma

Anything a temporary expat can do?

douglasmacarthur2 karma

Subscribe to our social media accounts.

Find the protest near where you used to live and direct your friends still in the area there.


georgewashington24 karma

Do you know of any participants in the SF Bay Area who are willing to a.) dress up like the Scottish warriors with blue face paint from Braveheart and/or b.) play bagpipes while I dress up like William Wallace...? because I would be so down to do that

douglasmacarthur2 karma

I'm afraid our core William Wallace impersonation team is in SoCal. You got a day to put aside to drive down there?

veryoriginal784 karma

Hey all, I'm Anna and I am the National Coordinator for the Restore the Fourth movement! Feel free to ask me anything.

Mike1381510 karma

Hey Anna - Did you know you're awesome?

veryoriginal784 karma

Thanks buffalo Mike!

douglasmacarthur3 karma

That's not a question! Someone ban this guy!

douglasmacarthur6 karma

What's your favorite kind of fireworks?

veryoriginal7810 karma

I like the tiny snappers. I like to snap them in between my fingers; it makes me feel powerful.

FFG364 karma

I'm curious about the political diversity of this movement. As a pretty hard conservative, I typically disagree with plenty on Reddit, but I'm just as pissed as anyone regarding these invasions of privacy and wholesale collection of data.

killawhallle3 karma

We're completely non-partisan. We have all walks of life among us and we focus on nothing other than the restoration and protection of our Fourth Amendment!

FFG364 karma

That's great. The older I get (now 37), the more I hate this caustic partisan political environment we are in. I'd love to see Americans band together and solve our problems... regardless of who started then, caused them, or promoted them. Politicians should fear and work to please the citizenry and they really don't.

douglasmacarthur2 karma

Rest assured, we don't care how you feel about Democrats or gays or public sector union leaders so long as you don't read their email without their permission.

MrCar6214 karma

If necessary, will there be Restore the Fourth protests AFTER July 4th?

douglasmacarthur7 karma

It is necessary, and there will be.

tgjj1234 karma

Any advice for a UK redittor who wants to aid in the process?

douglasmacarthur3 karma

In addition to checking out the UK community, spread the word to your US friends! Post on their Facebook wall with links. Text them, instant message them, PM them. Ask them why you seem to care more about the future of their government, and nation, than they do.

WalterBrickyard3 karma

Are you aware that the "organizers" for Seattle are making a big mess of things? It is scheduled for the 6th, not the 4th. And they have not done any real outreach or partnering with other groups so nobody has heard of it. There is also some concern that our anarchist faction will take it over and turn the whole thing into another fucking May Day disaster.

douglasmacarthur3 karma

I'm not personally aware of that specific example as I am working more on the online and media side of things, but I would guess those of us focusing on helping out the local organizations are, and I am aware of this sort of thing happening in a couple other cases.

I don't think holding it on a day other than the 4th is the end of the world, especially if it's necessary. The other parts (if true) are a bit more disconcerting. But this is the downside of being grassroots and we have to take it with the upside.

Remember that you don't need you local organizer's permission to help with marketing. You can do a lot on your own. Just try to keep them updated so you don't mix signals. But if they aren't bothering, just go for it.

We will do some more "vetting" of the local organizations we choose to associate with after the 4th and make sure they remain non-violent and don't present the national organization as anything but non-partisan. If local groups are somewhat partisan, we'd prefer they weren't, but that's tolerable - other local groups somewhat partisan the other way can balance them out. That's what unity is about.

Violence on the other hand is unacceptable and any local organization that doesn't take reasonable measures to prevent any violent activity will be disassociated - hopefully that won't be necessary, but there may be exceptions.

LouReddit3 karma

Just wanted to say thank you.

douglasmacarthur2 karma

You're welcome.

jblondchickah20033 karma

Are there any organized protests in any of the southern states? There is so much unawareness of this ongoing problem here! I aim at changing that, although, I really don't know where to start!

douglasmacarthur2 karma

Get to!!!

Some may be on the list but not active, but you can always get your friends together to hand out material at the local 4th of July celebrations.

iHasAredditMeow3 karma

I can't go to any protests, so what are some other ways I can show my support?

courtFTW3 karma

Douglas, I only know you as the top mod of /r/news. How did you come to be involved in this?

douglasmacarthur1 karma

/u/BipolarBear0 was one of the first contributors and he brought me in as a subreddit moderator because we modded /r/news together. Gradually as people fell out (it is volunteer work) and they learned of my experience with social media and editing I took on more and more responsibilities. They trusted /u/Bipolarbear0 because he had invested so much time for so long and they trusted me because he did.

[deleted]3 karma

Why was this organized as a nationwide protest?

In the past it seems most protests were centralized. People marched to specific spots, had a leader who gave a speech, and presented an actual goal.

Now we seem to have these "nationwide" protests where people spend 15 minutes going downtown in their city to wave some signs around.

Why? Why not the bigger push to make a stand somewhere that it means something? Why make the protest decentralized from the start?

1,000,000 people in front of the White House makes a bigger impact than 10,000 people in 100 cities.

Mike138159 karma

Do you have 1,000,000 people at your command?

I'd certainly drop this whole thing and work on a protest with that many backers.

Until then, we will start small and work our way up.

scarletsaint2 karma

We had less than a month to organize, so we thought it would be more effective for people to organize locally. Getting everyone to D.C. in less than a month would have been difficult. We have gotten a positive reception from the media so far. We are pushing to organize something larger and more centralized in a few months.

fongaboo2 karma

Why do you think a lot of Americans don't care about this issue (yet) despite everything we were taught in school about other countries and other periods of history?

douglasmacarthur6 karma

Why do you think a lot of Americans don't care about this issue (yet) despite everything we were taught in school about other countries and other periods of history?

They need to have the issue contextualized for them as primarily about how blatantly PRISM violates the 4th amendment, and how consistently the NSA has lied to us about what it's doing. The MSM has focused on the personality of Edward Snowden and the drama of his flight instead of the issues and the scandal that he revealed. I wouldn't say they're "demonizing" him but they are, purposely or inadvertently, using him as a red herring distracting from the crimes committed by the NSA.

Other groups working on this issue have, I think, put too much of their own outsides issues into it their work and consequently come off as fringe. They have also focused the bulk of their attention on the same blogs and social media channels occupied almost entirely by the people who cared as soon as the news hit anyway.

It doesn't need to be that way. The left and right both vocally support the constitution and the American people will care about this when the essentials are presented to them. We need to not just echo the importance of issue off to eachother but mobilize all of our pre-existing support into presenting our case to the American people as a whole. So that's what we're going to do.

RogerMexico2 karma

In addition to the protests, could you start a petition on to restore the 4th?

Unfortunately, I already have plans with my family and will not be attending any protests this 4th but the least I could do is spread the word and sign a petition.

Mike138152 karma

There's a ton of them.

torro9472 karma

I have been looking for the right answer and maybe you can give it to me. How would you argue this issue with someone who refuses to believe it is a big issue because they do not see any immediate ramifications.

douglasmacarthur2 karma

There were some great threads on /r/restorethefourth about this that you should check out if you can find them. I am also going to be adding a lot of stuff to tonight that might help you. Everyone should check that page at least once Wednesday night or Thursday morning as there is still a significant amount of content to be added over the next day and a half.

chickenboneneck2 karma

How many Guy Fawkes mask wearing idiots will it take to ruin this movement on a national level?

douglasmacarthur2 karma


12341234123341 karma

Can I see your manifesto?

douglasmacarthur1 karma

Closest thing we have to a manifesto right now is here:

OptimistAndAtheist1 karma

By vote,

  1. Do you believe in God?
  2. Are you for or against gay marriage?
  3. Do you think intelligent design should be taught in schools?

douglasmacarthur1 karma

I will have to contact God, gay marriage, and intelligent design and find out their positions on the 4th Amendment and PRISM and get back to you

Billy_Blink_7101 karma

Why are you using Facebook when they were one of the main corporations to provide our information to the government?

Ravanas3 karma

If you want to spread a message, go to where the people are.

douglasmacarthur4 karma

Yeah. Our priority has just been making sure that those who have opted out can still come, because we know that includes a lot of our audience and we don't want to disrupt independent boycotts and the like.

douglasmacarthur2 karma

Who better to warn about it than Facebook's users, then?

Billy_Blink_7101 karma

What are you doing about the fact that the surveillance came from private corporations that we have absolutely no control over?

douglasmacarthur2 karma

What are you doing about the fact that the surveillance came from private corporations that we have absolutely no control over?

There are a lot of dimensions to this. I am curious what particular example you have in mind - that will allow me to address it as it applies to that.

Mike138151 karma

If we make privacy an important issue politically, encryption at individual level will surely follow to become a booming business.

Billy_Blink_7103 karma

But it's the tech companies that are gathering and storing our private information, will you be protesting google, yahoo, apple, microsoft, ect?

douglasmacarthur3 karma

But it's the tech companies that are gathering and storing our private information, will you be protesting google, yahoo, apple, microsoft, ect?

The way to deal with private companies isn't protest or political action but boycotts and the like. Your interaction with these companies essentially voluntary, so you can protect yourself from them yourself and can help others do so just by disseminating information on why and how. We aren't focusing on that right now but I support those who do (like Mozilla) and perhaps it is something we'll branch out into. The problem there though is that it doesn't directly relate to the 4th amendment which is our theme.

Of course, the really bad thing they did was participate in the NSA's programs but that all goes back to the NSA. The government apparatus that enabled them to and, arguably, pressured them into participating is the core problem there.

kultov0 karma

How will you defend yourself from being labelled as unpatriotic, or anti-American, or any other variation of Anti-Murica?

douglasmacarthur4 karma

Explain to them that any genuinely anti American elements they associated with protest movements aren't present in this one, and that people petitioning their government and the constitution are the two most patriotic things there are.

Also, our National Coordinator sells July 4 fireworks for a living. I think she defines American, personally.

Slnt6660 karma

Expecting to reach a national attention level on the 4th of July? Good luck.

douglasmacarthur1 karma

What better time to advertise a program to defend one of our founding documents than on the 4th of July? The people saying this are making the error of contextualizing July 4th celebrations as a competing, and not a co-enabling, factor. What do you think is a better time to advertise football jerseys, during the Superbowl or doing the off season when there's fewer "distractions"?

StormAndStrife-3 karma

What's with using the Greendale Anus in the Restore the Fourth logo?

douglasmacarthur2 karma

We actually stole the idea of using an asterisk from the ETrade logo. Or was it the WalMart log or the Kinko's logo? It is strange how many major corporations got their logo from a butt joke from Community.

Hey, have you ever heard of a guy named Rorschach?

mdbham-3 karma

At what point do we say "fuck it" and start burning down NSA data centers?

("Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - John F. Kennedy)

douglasmacarthur5 karma

We're not at that point, if such a point will come or could come, and Rt4 fully expects to deal with this before that point. If we ever reach that point it won't be Rt4 doing it, it will be someone else. We're an explicitly non-violent movement and have no intention of ever existing as anything else.