I grew up in Dubai, United Arab Emirates as a third-generation expat (yes, expat) and will be moving to the US (by myself) now at the age of 18.

how are women treated there? Well, in comparison to India and the image you have about the US?

I've stayed in the US for 3-4 months at a time, so I've experienced it somewhat. Well my image of the US is sheltered late 2000s Norcal suburb life. The difference in treatment of women throughout Western Europe and North America is far more similar than it is different. It is without a doubt better than both India and Dubai, now at least, if not historically.

I'd say it depends. As for the Emiratis of Dubai, it would be hard to say that they treat women very well. They are some of the most liberal and open-minded Arabs out there - second only to Omanis, in my experience, leagues above Saudis for sure - but a lot of their conservative and Islamic ideology is definitely present. I know a very intelligent half Emirati girl who wants to study medicine and although her English mother supports it, her Emirati father is very much against it, but he's letting her do so anyways. At least they send their daughters to school etc.

But keep in mind that Emiratis are only 11% of the population in Dubai. They may hold all the political power, but zero social power. And from that perspective, socially it all depends on whom you hang out with. My classmates are British and are really racist (makes me wonder whether the UK is really like that, but from what I hear Dubai Brits tend to be much worse).

I guess it's easy to get the image of India as being a rape-filled shithole when you only have internet access to it. All these rape headlines keep popping up on INTERNATIONAL WORLD NEWS etc. There is a rape reported in the US every 6.2 minutes, and that is less than India's population minus ONE BILLION people. Imagine how many articles you could spam reddit with. But then again the only reporting is when it happens to tourists anyways...

India is a pretty socially liberal state from a legal and constitutional standpoint - in fact the constitution is really similar to the US's, probably as they both inherited English common law. But the corruption and social toxicity in India is on another level sometimes. The muslims of India are way more regressive than the muslims of the UAE, in fact. Not saying Hindus or Christians are very progressive, either.

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TL;DR - what I'm getting at here: Let's take Dubai as its expat world, and India as a typical urban city. With that in mind, I'd say that India treats women better legally, whereas Dubai treats women better socially (the expats at least) but not legally. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of restrictions for women here in Dubai - I don't even think they can travel without their husband's permission. EDIT: yes they can lol I'm an idiot, but they are still not as privileged as men. Still have way more rights than other Arab countries though

Do you think the number of reported rapes is significantly smaller due to people being afraid to report?

In the US or in India? It probably is, in both, what I'm getting at is although India is a dangerous country I think people really overestimate how dangerous it is based on some anecdotes. In my opinion rape happens as a mental perversion or psychopathy and not due to cultural norms or any of that stuff. There is just simply less control and more corruption in India. You even see this in the US between cities.

India is a pretty socially liberal state from a legal and constitutional standpoint

Not for long haha......

Maybe fascism will be good for India, who knows...

EDIT: I didn't actually mean that I was being sarcastic

It is easy to say that the rape reports are overblown, and they may well be (Western media loves sensationalizing negative aspects of “exotic” countries) but it is definitely worse than the US. You have to be careful as a woman in the US but when I was in India some years back I was not allowed to go anywhere by myself without a guide/bodyguard and this was on the insistence of people I was visiting who worked and lived there.

You are right, it is bad in India. But not so bad I think it should dissuade women from visiting, especially if they are going to the likes of Bangalore etc

Your last statement is NOT true. Emirati women are allowed to travel as they wish. What it boils down to is traditions. Some families are very liberal and live western type of lifestyle, while others retain the old bedouin type of lifestyle and traditions.

Typically, Emiratis from Dubai are much more open minded and liberal. From areas like Al Ain, Abu Dhabi tend to be more strict and traditional.

You're right, I got it wrong, I was thinking of something else, probably. I take that back.

Why do you think you want to be here in the US (for the rest of your life) over anywhere else in the world?

1. I can only speak two languages fluently; a minority Indian language and English. And I'm conversational in Spanish. I feel like I'd feel most welcome in a majority English speaking nation, so that only leaves open North America, some of Europe, Australia, and Singapore.

2. Culture and food - I have stuck close to American culture in terms of food and media, and my dad went to university in the US so he brought some of that back with him.

3. Tech - I'm an avid tech geek and salaries for the tech field can a factor of 1.5-2 times higher for the same work, when you consider lower taxes, in the US than Europe or Canada. Mixed with a lower cost of living (rent, goods, etc), and the US wins economically. Zero interesting or stimulating tech work happens in Dubai, even if the salaries are up to par with the US (in fact they can often be higher), but money isn't everything and the career growth potential here is zilch.

4. Ideally I'd like to maintain a life in the US but also explore other countries. I have always wanted to visit East Asia, for example. But I don't think I'd want to live anywhere other than the US.

5. Nature - the US has brilliant and beautiful nature, compared to the soulless desert of Dubai. India has nice nature too but is not respecting nor taking care of it whatsoever. Bangalore went from Garden City to looking like Blade Runner IRL. I love the mountain states (CO, UT) but also the PNW a lot.

Thanks for answering.

Unsolicited mom advice: Being only 18 please don’t box yourself in on your options. It’s good to have a plan but to be flexible. It’s great that you want to travel & you definitely should! Good luck in your studies & life!

Mom seconding. Grass can also sometimes be greener.

There's no grass to even be green in the desert, auntie

Of course there is. But it's not native, and certainly takes a lot of maintenance.

You can see in the sad dull brown color of the grass it is not designed to be in this environment

Yeah I guess, I'm definitely not trying to box myself in on options. I just wanted to advertise I have a slightly different trajectory to the average Dubai kid - usually theirs is to go to a western university and then come back to work in Dubai.

Bruh. Indian here who grew up in Dubai and currently live and work in the US. There's quiet a few of us around here. Then again when I was growing up there, there was just Americans University of Dubai out there. Bits and other good tech schools were juuuuuuust starting and I didn't wanna be a part of a new school. Good luck!

I am too removed from Indian culture and work ethic to go to an Indian school. And as an American citizen who wants to get into US tech it makes most sense to go to a US school anyways.

Thanks, best to you!

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Well with all due respect, I don't know what one would expect in WV. The government here is repressive but so are the expats. I always laugh whenever redditors complain about the migrant workers on reddit, because from what I have noticed of white people here in Dubai they really tend to have fun with how much better they are treated than us. It comes back to bite them in the ass later though, which is always fun to watch.

Ideally I'd like to go to some place with a decent Desi population at some point (Houston, parts of Norcal, etc)

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I guess so, thanks for the warning!

I forgot to mention; I'm pretty well traveled thanks to my parents.

I've been to: UAE, Oman, Egypt, Tanzania, India, Vietnam, Thailand, Russia, Poland, Austria, Germany, France, Spain, England, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, and the United States (Florida, Georgia, California, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Colorado, Texas)

Some day I want to visit: Canada, New Zealand, Australia, China, Japan, South Korea, possibly North Korea, possibly Turkmenistan, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Malaysia, and Brazil.

(I know some people here might get salty about DPRK and Turkmen but I have an unhealthy interest in authoritarian countries and a lot of people I know - British and Australian - have been there. I guess Dubai is filled with travel aficionados so it's a biased pool, but still. Also there is a North Korean presence in Dubai; I have met and talked to some DPRK officials before, at a restaurant, that's a story for another time though).

About that lower tax thing, you might want to consider social structures such as free medical care etc into consideration when comparing cost of living for the countries

That is very true!

Considering that he would be in the higher income levels (tech) that would probably offset it being "free". I have limited knowledge on this though, please explain to me if I am wrong

You're right. If I make a lot of money (common in tech) then it does offset it being free. America is great for the upper-middle class and beyond.

If you are conversational in Spanish and fluent in English and work in the tech sector I highly recommend you look for employment opportunities in south Florida. There is a growing tech sector in Miami that services mostly US and Latin America, something I feel Silicon Valley and other tech hubs do not. Plus it has a wealth of other cultures, not just Latin but also Caribbean and Asian influences in Miami Dade and Broward County. There are a lot of natural springs in FL plus the Keys has a ton of snorkeling opportunities. You would find a lot of common ground in terms of food between Jamaican and Indian cuisine, which abounds in both in my area.

I've been to Tampa, Jacksonville, and Orlando. I would really be intrigued in involving myself in Spanish culture! And yes there are actually a lot more people of Indian descent in northern South America and central America, thank people would think. I am good friends with a few Guyana and Trini Indians.

You don’t speak Arabic after living in the UAE your whole life?

I never needed to.

Can I ask why not? Did you go to an English speaking school?

Yes. Nobody I know speaks Arabic, other than Emiratis or Arabs here. It is like being expected to speak a Native American language in the US lol

Wow. That’s really interesting. Thanks for answering!

No problem! I expanded on it in another comment

Not really comparable, as Native Americans are only about 1% of the US population, while Emiratis are 11% of their population. Plus, Native Americans were genocided into near non-existence and had their languages and cultures deliberately destroyed by whites, not quite the same situation in UAE. I confess to finding it boggling that a family can make it to 3 generations in UAE without speaking Arabic fluently. Here in the US, by the second generation most are English speaking natively, if not exclusively.

To put it in perspective, there's a sect of Hungarian Jews who fled the Soviet invasion of Hungary back in the '50s, who are very isolated from mainstream US society to the point their kids only speak Hungarian until they're in their teens. They are the one and only example of this I have ever heard of. Even the Amish learn English. And this particular sect is so isolated that even the other Jewish groups think they're weird. And they only achieve that level of isolation by being very determined and deliberate about it.

I am so hung up on this because it seems like you couldn't have formed close friendships with Emiratis. It sounds like only a couple even attend your school. You are just so excluded from their society. I come from a very immigrant-based culture (America) so I can't even wrap my mind around this...

Yeah. It's sort of a reverse North America in ways. But come here and you'll see how divided the societies are.

You mentioned your school is mainly expats with only two emiratis. How many people in your school are other types of arabs? And following on from that, what percentage of the people around you who aren't emirati speak arabic?

The only people I know who speak Arabic are Emiratis or Arabs, with the exception of my grandpa and dad and people who were in Dubai prior to the 80s. You have to understand people are never really here for a long time (maximum 4-7 years) and even if they are, there is zero motivation to learn because all the non-Emirati Arabs here speak English and even the Emiratis speak it. In fact it's much more useful to know Hindi here than Arabic as that is the language everyone of South Asia uses, even though only like 35% of the Indian subcontinent speaks Hindi as their first language. And of course the difference between dialects of Arabic is huge.

My dad has lived here for pretty much 30 of the 48 years of his life yet is not even conversational in Arabic. My grandpa has lived here for around 75 and is kinda proficient but nowhere near fluent. I lived here for about 14 years and know about 5 words in Arabic. I can't even read a word of it.

You don't speak Arabic??

No, I probably never will either.

It must be exceptionally isolating to never speak the native language of the nation you were born and (mostly) raised in. I understand when you say that native Emiratis are only a portion of the population, but still, that's crazypants to me.

I guess a better way to think of it is not knowing Malay in Singapore, or not knowing French in Vancouver.

So I take it you speak Kannada

No!

What program are you taking in America?

Computer Science, I might minor in economics or physics, I haven't decided yet

English speaking nation, so that only leaves open North America, some of Europe, Australia, and Singapore.

Culture and food - I have stuck close to American culture in terms of food and media, and my dad went to university in the US so he brought some of that back with him.

Tech - I'm an avid tech geek and salaries for the tech field can a factor of 1.5-2 times higher for the same work, when you consider lower taxes, in the US than Europe or Canada

New Hampshire is pretty baller for nature if you want that. Just right up the road.

Congrats on coming over to America. Unfortunately you're not in Free America by being in MA but it is still an interesting place.

I'll check it out! Connecticut was really nice

Welcome to the US! I hope you enjoy it here! You don't have to answer this but do you know what part of Massachusetts your university is in? I ask because my first year of college was spent in western Massachusetts and I hated it because it's quite rural and I didn't have a vehicle. I would have enjoyed being closer to Boston though.

Oh and also, what was it like growing up in Dubai as the construction/tourism really took off? I'm guessing you've seen it change a lot?

Now I'm curious too.... But as a SUPPORTER of Western Mass: OP says he loves nature, and there's lots of that to be found! Don't forget you can make friends with people who have cars, take the bus, use Uber/car-sharing, etc. Seek out cool little mini-cities like Amherst and Northampton.

But for a techie my guess would be WPI :)

damn right son, it is WPI

I'd actually argue your point on expat v immigrant - expat is a term used by westerners to avoid being labelled as an immigrant. You never hear of a person from the Western world being called an immigrant and you never hear of others (let's be realistic here, people who aren't white) being called an expat instead of an immigrant - even if they don intend to 'assimilate into the culture' as you put it.

So I guess my question is... Why was it so important for you to take the time to define that in your explanation?

That's pretty much the way it's used now, you're right. The reason I tried to take the time to define it is because I often like to tell people whom I meet how I'm an expat in Dubai, not an immigrant in Dubai. I wanted to express what exactly I meant by that, ie not being accepted as a citizen here legally yet knowing this country and this country only.

I was deployed to Al Dhafra several years ago while in the Air Force. How do you guys handle that heat every summer? I enjoyed my time there when I could visit the cities but what do kids do for fun growing up?

Right now the weather is awesome, it was about 15C (60F) this morning - which is my ideal temperature. But it reaches 40C (104) during the summer easily.

You're never really outside that often in Dubai. You'll go from your air conditioned home to your air conditioned car, to the air conditioned mall. Most people hang out and socialize at the mall. Nobody walks here except during winter.

Commonly people take up to 2 months off per year, which is of course always the summer, during which they'll go and enjoy the summers of London/Chicago/etc or the winters of Sydney. Emiratis do it too.

Do you have Emirati friends?

My school is a British school for expats, around 60% British, 20% Indian and 20% other nationalities. There are two Emiratis; one of them I occasionally talk to, the other one is half Emirati half English, her mother and my mother are friends. But her Emirati father remains a kind of enigmatic mystery, even to his own wife and daughter sometimes.

What's the best way to get a job there if you're not in the country? I.e. how do they recruit internationally, and can you bring your family?

Honestly I couldn't tell you. It's not very hard to come here, though, and if you enjoy being paid like a king while having a leisurely life, you might like it here. People just don't come here because of the preconceived notions of the middle east. Just don't expect your career to grow.

What happens when a foreign women get's pregnant with an Emirati from a casual encounter. Does the kid have any right?

Although not at all enforced, it is technically illegal to have sex outside of marriage. I can't imagine it's enforced very strictly because Dubai is the gay hub for the Middle East as cops will rarely do anything other than break up gay parties, and most of my friends have had sex already. Pretty much nobody's gonna find out, anyways.

But back on topic, honestly I don't know. I've never once witnessed a case like that personally.

So, apartheid?

Nowhere near as bad as apartheid. But yes, quite segregated. Think of the black/white divide in much of the US... it's like that. We've had almost our own version of white flight recently with conservative Emiratis moving from Dubai to Abu Dhabi and rural UAE.

What university in Massachusetts? I live on the north shore in Massachusetts. I think you'll like it here.

Probably like a small tech school. Massachusetts Institute of Technology or something.... /s

You are a funny one...MIT!

OP here, it's not MIT but it's a tech school. Not WIT either, but the first letter is right.

As an expat in UAE, what kind of career options and what kind of lifestyle would you have if you stayed there?

Most of the tech work itself is outsourced to India. I would probably take on a managerial role. And to be frank, the pay would be a lot better than in America. I would also work a lot less. This one guy posted on /r/cscareerquestions - he was working around 25 hours a week yet making $140,000 a year. People couldn't believe it, but it is the reality here. Plus he gets probably close to 6 weeks PTO a year.

Why wouldn't I want to stay here? Because that work is mindless and boring. Despite my American passport, I'd also probably be racially discriminated against here too, job-wise - much more than in the US probably, too. Why stay here?

Ah a fellow JoJo compatriot. Also born in Dubai in 2000 then moved to the US in 2004. Mallu by any chance?

My dad's side is Kerala Konkani, mom's side is Karnataka Konkani

gotcha I haven't been back to dubai since i moved, probably visiting this summer. anything interesting things to see and visit?

I cannot recommend coming to Dubai during the summer. During the summer the population of Dubai probably decreases by 30% or so, nobody wants to stay here, I'm not kidding, and the laborers working outside literally die in the heat if they don't kill themselves first.

Do you really want to spend your whole day in a mall to escape the scorching heat?

You wrote that it's impossible to gain citizienship unless you are the offspring of an Emirati male... Are you sure it's only males? I got to know a guy who has UAE citizenship and his mother is indeed Emirati but his father is from Morocco. As far as I know either of the parent needs to be an UAE citizen for a child to be able to get citizenship. But then again, maybe the laws have changed meanwhile (this dude is about ~33 years old).

Either way, no big deal. I am just interested. Thanks for doing this AMA

I think mothers can get it for their children, too. The kids have to apply for it when they're older, though, they don't get it by birth.

• Do expats have any power (political or economic) in the UAE? What would happen if the expats tried ro gain power, say they all banded together and went on strike?

• Could an expat like yourself who grew up there "pass" for an Emerati?

1. No political power. Economic power? Well the UAE companies pretty much pay everyone around 30% more than what they'd make at home, and there is zero income tax. Also, the Emiratis aren't bad people by any means. The UAE government is also backed by the US and the UK. Striking etc would be a horrible idea. No matter how bad it is in the UAE, it's still better than most people's home countries

2. I mean most expats are white or Indian so no they really don't look Emirati. I do look more Arab than Indian, but that's just the way I look as a person, but if an Arab approaches me and speaks to me in Arabic I just speak to him in Hindi and usually he realizes the mistake and starts speaking to me in Hindi instead, or English in the rare case he doesn't know Hindi. Then I'll segue into English for ease. (Yes, Arabs speak Hindi here, but Indians don't speak Arabic. A weird dynamic for sure).

Have labor laws for unskilled laborers improved there over the last ten years? Or is abuse still common?

Haven't changed at all tbh

Congratulations on being accepted to college! Tech is a very good direction. What type of things in tech do you find exciting? It's very good to look for internships in the specialties you like, so you have some experience.

Also, do you have any hobbies you expect to pursue in the US?

Pretty much anything I could pursue in the US I could pursue here. I'd like to continue playing the guitar and learning languages, but I also am thinking of picking up a sport. Sports is not encouraged in many Indian families because they think it wastes time that should be spent on academics, and makes children overly aggressive. Speaking of which, martial arts look intriguing lmao

Welcome to the states. What's one thing you hope to do here?

Start working! Until recently you couldn't work until the age of 18 in the UAE. I'd love to get a job and make some money, as US employers really like work experience (here it's all about the name of your college).

You've given us a perspective on the top and middle classes, what is your perspective on the slavery issue there? What do you know, what have you seen? Is it as rampant as the West makes it out to be? Have people in the West confronted you or your family for supporting it by living there? Is it a talked about social issue there or is it largely ignored? Thank you

I remember reading a story about an Indian who grew up in the UAE on /r/ABCDesis and has an irrational repulsion to white people due to their treatment of Indians here. It took him years to realize that the white people he was meeting in the UK and the US were nothing like the kind he grew up around in Dubai.

Many of them really do not view us well. And unlike Emiratis, we deal a LOT with white people, at school and at work every day. He spoke from his heart but it came out of mine as well; it's ridiculous seeing how much flack assumedly white people on the internet and in their home countries give the UAE for its "slavery" issue when their own nationals enjoy the racial hierarchy here in Dubai as much as the locals. And the Middle Eastern treatment of Indians does not even compare to the historical British treatment of Indians, and may I remind that the British are still proud of their Empire.

At least in Dubai it seems popular for the British to reminisce about the time they could legally have their live-at-home Indian servants here back at home too! They can have them in Dubai, just for a few hundred pound a month, why not in the UK???! It's so unfairrrr!

I can't really blame them, though. When your only perception of Indians is as blue collar workers, retail employees, or maids/servants/janitors then you're bound to develop such views. That's why I've noticed little anti-Indian racism in America. The main racism towards us is racism intended to be directed towards Arabs or Latinos. There is nothing to make fun of about a group of people who live in wealthy suburbs and drive expensive vehicles, making six figures annually in medicine/tech/whatever.

You can talk about it for sure, but there's nothing to say. It's not up to us whether it goes away or not. My family and I are not answerable to Westerners, so even if they do say something why should I care. This same problem exists back home in India. You don't think India has income inequality? And It's in China too... And it exists all over the world. Don't you know the working conditions of people in China, who designed a lot of the consumer products you're using? They are no better than that of the laborers in Dubai. You just get to confront the horror out in the open here.

So, if I understand you correctly (and please tell me if I get it wrong) is that racism and poverty exist, just like in most countries, but that slavery doesn't exist in Dubai? I couldn't be happier if that were true, but it does fly in the face of what I've been taught. That's why I was so eager to ask you and a local because I know my perspective is naturally skewed. Again, if I get what you're saying; then that's terrific!

No, there's no slavery here. The country hires laborers from foreign countries as construction workers, yes. But it is voluntary. And no, they are not paid well. But their lives are still better than they would be in India. The controversy is inherent in that the UAE government definitely has the power to treat the laborers better, but they don't. Should they? I think so.

But to act like India and China don't have the same problems as the UAE would be absurd. Indentured labor is wrong, but it isn't slavery.

Thank you for your insight! Good luck at school!!

No problem! Did you think actual slavery existed in the UAE lol? It's just a term used to describe excessive capitalism. No different to the sweatships of East and Southeast Asia.

What were the requirements to get into the University and how much you have to pay / year?

How exactly do you plan to live your whole life in US? studying there and going the h1b route might not be as straight forward as it sounds (not talking from experience but rather from what I've heard and read online)

There are no requirements in the US, other than taking some tests and submitting your high school grades and writing an essay. My grades were pretty good though (36 IB, 32 ACT) and we're paying $38k/yr for tuition plus extra money for room and board which can be cut down later.

EDIT: "no requirements" doesn't necessarily mean just anyone can get in, it just means that anyone can apply. obviously they take only the best

What is the general outlook towards immigrants in the UAE, Are there any subconscious biases that you have to deal with growing up?

Again, this place is 89% "immigrants" (expats). And the expats are detached from the Emiratis. So we don't talk to them.

Is Dubai truly 'lit' like the guy who was stoned at the dentist office had declared?

Each to their own

I grew up in Abu dhabi, Dubai and Muscat in Oman. What school were you going to? I visited Oman last year for the first time in 20 years, such a beautiful part of the world.

You can DM me for the school name.

Hey, welcome home! And I do hope you enjoy living here. But where do you feel most at home? Do you feel very much like a foreigner in Dubai?

I don't feel at home anywhere, honestly. It's a huge identity crisis that kids here grow up to have. For Western kids it's okay as this is an English speaking place. But if you come here from India you get stripped of your Indian background at a Western school usually, kind of a form of assimilation, and then don't even have a western country to go back to. I am lucky in that regard at least.

It's so interesting to read about your background; I'm from a NorCal suburb (you wouldn't happen to have spent time in the South Bay, would you?) and one of my high school friends is South Indian with relatives in the UAE as well.

How common is it for expats like yourself to move out of the UAE indefinitely? Where do they usually go?

Nah, I was in Santa Clara!

It's pretty common to move away from the UAE permanently. People go back to their home countries.

Oh Santa Clara's in the South Bay! Thank you for the response, that's interesting.

Oh right, I didn't know that. Yeah I was in Los Gatos

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