IMA retired but unrepentant carnival con artist. AMA rubes!

How do we avoid being conned?

Don't play any game. Why: On the most basic level--say the Weight Guess--the prize you win is worth less than the cost of playing the game. That's why the Weight Guess guy always guesses wrong. He doesn't care! As you move up the ladder in sophistication, the games are "gaffed" or fixed so that you never win unless it's in the "agent's" interest. Like if there's a big "tip" of potential players looking on.

Oh, I see... it's a profit deal!

Wouldn't have it any other way!

So are you saying there is a high chance of winning if there are a lot of onlookers?

Could be. But don't bank on it.

Have you ever had someone successfully "shoot out the star"? (Bb gun)

That wasn't on the midway when I was around. But one of my first jobs was the shooting gallery at the Michigan State Fair. Untethered pellet guns you just handed to the player. Try that one today.
My right ear still rings from the nonstop clanging.

In a rather singular twist, these are still widespread in fairs in germany (gun-control-countray, remember?) They don't pack much of a punch and you're lucky if they shoot halways straight, but i always admired the courage of the shopkeepers, handing out loaded pellet guns to inebriated customers, just to have them directed in their general direction without flinching... shudder Edit: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Schiessbude2.jpg for example... and they will run around in direct line of fire.

Thanks. Will wonders never cease.

What is the "Flat Store"?

I wrote a long reply that was unfortunately deleted. The short version is the Flat Store is a "count game" where the agent miscounts the mark into a number of points, yards, etc. that brings him just short of winning. After that, with the mark hooked, the game takes over and it is impossible to win without the miscount. Hope that helps more than confuses.

I still don't get it, bit thanks for trying. I guess I'd best stay clear of the carnival!

Good idea.

Is this about it?

http://www.nabihq.org/en-us/cons_and_scams/carnival_game_fraud.php?sf_jst=r

Essentially. I worked the counting (miscounting) points variety. Others involve sleight-of-hand, which to me are less of a challenge. Bottom line, though, is that carnival cons are a sort of folk craft with variations from region-to-region and carnie to carnie.

[deleted]

Correct.

how much & what kind of drugs are used in the carny community?

Any and all. Mostly speed so they can keeping talking 12 hours straight. They weren't born with carny teeth.

If the games are truly 'rigged' so that the paying customer cannot win, is there a risk of law enforcement closing the game down? Wouldn't it be considered fraud?

We played small towns. Law enforcement was "patched" by the carnival owner with a couple of teddy bears or a bottle of something. There was no concern about arrest.

I love the thought of a small-town southern sheriff meeting a carnie in the dead of night and walking away with a teddy bear under each arm...

Now you've got me crying sentimental tears.

Now we know you're full of shit.

Goes with the territory.

Were you ever conned? If carnival con artists are one type of remora, what other types of carnival remoras are out there?

Day trading. Dot-com bubble. Multi-million dollar valuations for start-ups that were nothing but empty offices but for a few chairs. Remoras higher up the suck chain than me.

What is your best/most successful con story from work?

I beat a federal prosecutor for a couple hundred bucks on the Flat Store I mentioned. Didn't know what he was until I was half-way through with him. So I "chilled" him with a couple of teddy bears for his kids. Was quite tense. But no ramifications--he was probably too embarrassed to pursue things once he realized that he'd been screwed by a carnie.

So when you "chill" people, is it basically you letting them win without letting them know you're letting them win? Or do you straight up give them free things to try to calm them down.

In this case I just handed him a couple of stuffed toys to let him leave with face saved. As far as letting people win-well, there are a number of reasons to do that. The basic idea is to build a tip in the type of game that flourishes on volume. On the flat store you may need only one or two players to make it a good day. You want them to leave happy but penniless.

Has anyone ever become violent after realizing they were a mark?

The threat of violence is always there when you're standing face-to-face with a drunk farmer who just lost the grocery money his wife had entrusted him with. I managed to emerged unscathed, though others did not. The old adage was "always leave them a dollar for gas" so they could drive back home and kick the hound.

Any good stories about small town folks running off with the carnival?

None that I can remember. They'd come and go throughout the season. The girl part was nice. Some saw us as celebrities. These were REALLY small towns.

Yes a carnival came to my town every summer and there was always a girl who would fall in "love" and run off with them. That's what made me ask haha

What puzzled me were the girls who flirted with the ride boys (operators) so that they could ride the Tilt-a-Whirl or whatever for an hour or so until they threw up or started screaming "Let us off!!!!!"

what is the idea behind making insults to passersby in order to get them to play their game? Had this happen a few times and I just dont get it. Insulting me doesnt make me want to patronize their game or even their carnival.

You're not a mark. But there are plenty of others who are. Think drunk jocks.

Has an entire town ever called Shenanigans on your carnival South Park style?

Only in my dreams.

Will Trump win?

If so, he would be the first officially "with it" guy to occupy that exalted position.

If he does, maybe you could work for his carnival.

I'll accept any reasonable offer.

Second. Richard Nixon worked as a carnival barker for a time IIRC.

I'm gutted.

What was a typical yearly income for you?

Enough to struggle by on with pennies to spare for Xmas presents.

If you were scraping by why did you choose the carny job? Why not look for a better job/opportunity?

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but I'm circumspect about money.

I covered my expenses with pennies to spare.

[deleted]

30 years? Thought you'd be retired in Florida by now. I've talked about the razzle elsewhere in thread, though I call it by generic name of flat store. As far as the swinger goes, it's all in your pinkie finger. Ever work the nail store?

[deleted]

Nail store was murder--handing the mark a hammer. Yeah, joints are dead. Good luck on your new thing. Somebody's got to keep the flame alive!

I'm not sure if I'm even reading a real language anymore.

Such is the goal of carnyspeak.

Did you ever have to bunk up under a ride or inside your carnie booth?

Yeah. Early spring in my first year I slept in an unheated trailer with a blanket of plush (stuffed toys). Caught walking pneumonia.

Imagining this is both hilarious and strongly motivating to me to not be a carny.

Not that I had any desire before.

The nation needs more people like you and not me.

At least it wasn't running pneumonia.

Yup.

What was the most interesting reaction someone had to realizing they had been had?

A guy chased me for a few blocks. I stayed off the midway for a few hours. He didn't return. Probably passed out in a corn field.

Did you survive on a diet of fair food? Any favorites?

Favorite: Thirteen-inch foot longs, which were foot-longs in shorter buns. An invention of my friend's father--the carnival owner. A good tip in general is to avoid eating ANY carnival food the first day the show hits town. Leftovers from the previous week are served first. Cost effective!

I just read your tip to my wife and her reaction was hilarious. "Uhhh! Ahhh! I don't want to think about that!" Thanks twice for the tip.

Always happy to help!

What popular culture work (movie, tv, book, etc) portrays carnies in the most realistic way?

There was a movie called Carnie. Think it came out in the early 80s. Starring Gary Busey and Robbie Robertson (musician from a group called The Band). But it's more atmospheric and fanciful. And then there's Eyeing the Flash: The Education of a Carnival Con Artist, published by Simon & Schuster in 2005. A memoir by me. At the risk of tooting my own horn, it's about as real as you'll find. One of my goals was to preserve a small slice of rural Americana before it was urbanized out of existence. Plus you can probably find it cheap or in a library at this point.

Which was more entertaining? Working as a carnie or a reporter for The Enquirer?

Both were fun in their own ways. And the Enquirer was much less dangerous. I was chief paranormal reporter for a while and aliens never hurt me.

That's just what someone probed by Aliens would say...

Thanks for answering the question!

Sure 'nuff.

What do you think about the films of David Mamet that cover con men, like House of Games, or The Spanish Prisoner? The Grifters?(not sure who made that one)

Any others you like?

Yes, I like the early Mamet stuff, particularly the one set in the sales office (?) with Jack Lemmon. Rings true for the way the characters interact.

Glengary, Glen Ross.

Yes. Think I'll see if it's on netflix

Which facet of your upbringing made you not give a shit about conning people?

Just about all of it. I don't know if this is allowed by reddit, but here's a link to a podcast I did a few days ago for an NPR show called Snap Judgement. They did a good job of telling that part of the story: https://soundcloud.com/snapjudgment/carnie-snap-judgment-dirty-work

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Looking at the AMA Guide, you're getting this message because the Twitter account you linked to is not a "verified" account. That's all.

It is kind of funny that /u/AutoModerator is warning us to be wary in an AMA by a self-professed con artist.

That's amusing. I'm open to DNA testing should the need arise. In the interim, try this email address: [email protected].

I can only imagine OP sending pics to the admins:

"And here's a picture of me with cotton candy. And a picture of me riding the tilt-a-whirl. Oh, and here's a picture of me screwing a bunch of kids who drove 2 hours to come to the carnival. Any more proof?"

Cameras were frowned upon based on the conceit that the cops could use them to build a case. Actually, I don't think there was anything to worry about.

Did folks ever tell you that the games were unfair?

Countless times every day. Whiners!

[deleted]

exactly

Do you ever feel like a scumbag for screwing gullible people out of their money?

No. For a variety of reasons. 1. Players are motivated by greed. Countless others keep walking. 2. I was young and too busy trying not get beat up.

Do you have any videos online? I cant find any. Only a podcast!

The podcast is it.

Is carnival slang prevalent? Any particular turns of phrase you're especially fond of?

Yes. There's lots of slang. Also carnie talk--a sort of gibberish allowing carnies to talk freely in front of a mark. I like "cutting up jackpots" aka the stories carnies tell each other over a brew or three.

What is the best carnival attraction for not getting conned? Are there any booths that have better odds?

As a general rule, the greater number of teeth the fairer the game.

Did you ever get lonely traveling with the carnival? Assuming you never got married to a fellow carnie who would travel with you. Do you feel you missed out on spending your life with another person romantically?

No. I was young and it was one long party. Even work was fun--the adrenalin rush.

What do you do now that you're retired?

Panhandle

How does your panhandling success compare to that of carnie cons?

Bernie Sanders rallies can be quite lucrative. Trump--forget about it.

Thanks for doing this AMA - I've always been fascinated by carnival culture including medicine shows, geeks, freak shows, fortune tellers, etc. I think we see some of this culture in magic and specifically with Penn and Teller and similar - a little bit of pre-industrial or at least pre-WW2 America. Is it mostly gone now? Is the big carnival a Midwest thing? I never saw them growing up in Tennessee, only country fairs. Thanks again.

Surprised you didn't see any in Tennessee. I lived in Knoxville for a while and bumped into a few. I think your correct--traveling carnivals of the sordid sort are mostly gone. But the carnie culture is still alive and perhaps has been mainstreamed in the form of reality TV, etc. The Kardashians as geeks? Might work.

Thanks. Gonna get your book.

Best comment yet. Thanks even if you don't mean it.

I'm dead serious. And what's more, I'm gonna pay FULL PRICE. Merry Christmas.

Thanks!