IAMA guy who quit my IT job to achieve my dream to become a Commercial Pilot.

I come from a very similar situation, but unfortunately have not been so lucky thusfar. I worked in IT for approx 10 years through college and afterward, as a Systems Engineer working on Cisco, Microsoft networks, etc. I had always wanted to fly and when i turned 27 decided to go for it, leaving my nearly $80,000 a year IT job.

I went part 141 in Florida as well, spent around 2-1/2 years as a student then flight instructor building hours. I was eventually hired as an FO at a large regional airline. This is when reality started kicking in.

Top level FO pay at my airline (and most regionals in US) was around $32,000. Upgrade times there were around 5-7 years, so quite a while to make that small salary considering the incredible debt load and training to get to this point (my loans for college + flight school are nearly $130,000, and are set for repayment over 30 years!). Top that off with often terrible schedule changes and work rules, and it makes for an interesting situation; the actual FLYING is incredible and i love it to this day, but the rest of the environment and situation surrounding the job is pretty terrible right now. Moral is very low, and like OP said the market is in a strange state of flux right now with older pilots retiring, low pay, no retirement, and limited jobs.

Now here's the kicker, and something everyone thinking about a flying job needs to keep in mind. About 4 years into my airline career I was suddenly diagnosed with a very rare medical condition which has resulted in the loss of my flight medical. There was no warning, no symptoms prior, but after three surgeries I still am not fit to operate an aircraft per FAA regulations. Thanks to our pilots union I still technically hold my job at my airline for another year or so, but my medical situation is becoming very bleak.

Because of this diagnosis I have had to take a consulting job in IT again just to pay the bills. So, here I am 8 years later, $130,000 dollars in training debt, only to be back working IT for 1/2 of what I was making before I left, all because of a random medical situation I have no control over. Do i regret it? Thats hard to say. I LOVED the flying, throughout training, instructing, and flying jets. I miss it every.single.day. However, its hard to look back and say I put myself into 30 years of incredible debt and got something out of it, other than an all too short flying vacation.

I wish OP the best of luck, and anyone else looking into a flying career. Flying is something that you simply have to experience to see how challenging, exciting, and intertwined with your life it can become. But be ready, for there are a million ways to have your wings clipped, both through your own doing or things that are out of your hands. Keep your nose clean and your eyes on the goal, take the right parts of the job seriously and the flying will be pure enjoyment.

OP, I am in US but feel free to PM me if you want to chat about airline life as a new FO.

Good post. I would definitely reccommend "loss of medical" insurance to anyone getting into this game. If you fall ill and lose your medical and can't them fly.. I believe the insurance kicks in and pays off training costs/future salary loss..

I thought all airlines took care of this for their employees?

Unfortunately a lot of places (at least here in the US) its not included. The ironic part is about 6 months after I was grounded our union added loss of medical insurance plans. Of course b/c i wasn't an active line pilot I didn't qualify, and would need a medical exam prior to being accepted into the program, which I would never pass at this point.

But to reiterate yes, to those looking to fly, if your company/union doesn't offer loss of medical get the ball rolling and fight for it! It may save your butt one day, and certainly would have helped me tremendously in my situation.

With all your knowledge you might be able to be a ground instructor if that's your thing. Help train the future aviators of this world!

I have to say I'm a bit surprised the pay is so low. With the rates so low, you'd think they would offer the training for free. How are you expected to pay that back making such a low salary?

Salary differs around the world. It's not low everywhere. I've read that starting salary in the US isn't the best, couple that with incoming regulations for pilots to have 1500hrs before they can become a First Officer means many will have astronomical debt levels. It's not like this in Europe, or in places that accept a JAA/EASA Commercial Pilot's License.

I was going to add to this - I was contemplating becoming a career pilot at college however decided against it after hearing all the stories of low pay, poor hours, etc. I went to ERAU in Daytona Beach, and of the 8 friends who trained there to become pilots, none had jobs as commercial pilots last time I talked with them. The only person I know who flies for a reputable airline (Delta) was flying RJs last time I spoke with her...and she just trained at a small school in VA.

Flying is incredible, there is no doubt about it - but I think it's a horrible career choice and I think the OP would be better off staying in IT and flying on the weekends.

It's not all doom and gloom. The picture outside of America is more positive and the pay is better. Besides, I don't have an FAA license, I have a JAA/EASA one. Opens many more doors.

describe you IT job please.

When I worked in IT, I worked as 1st.. 2nd and 3rd line Desktop Support, Systems Engineer, Wintel Engineer, Apple Mac Support, Field Engineer.. Systems Administrator.. lots of different names for doing the same thing. Sometimes it was a permanent role. Sometimes it was a contract one. Working in the private sector and the public sector. Multi-national companies, household names and companies at the top of the Fortune 500.

What was your experience with deploying Macs in the enterprise?

From what angle..? The willingness of the organisation to use them, or the ease at which Macs can be integrated into a wintel architecture?

Once you pass, what do your career prospects look like?

I have heard it is generally a low paying job unless you get on a really nice path with a major airline.

I have gathered that career prospects and wages vary greatly with geography. Right now a lot of airlines are hiring pilots, but not very many are hiring low-houred pilots fresh out of flightschool. I am happy to work anywhere for any airline, and not necessarily in a flight-crew role to start if that's what it takes to get into the industry.

Most of the time newly qualified pilots will find their first role by instructing or starting with a low-cost airline/regional carrier. From there a few year and many logged hours later and you might get a position with a 'flag carrier' or legacy major airline.

I want to know more about your IT career. How did you get started in that? 4-year school and then work? Where did you start out in IT and where did you end up before you quit?

I went to university and did a BSc in Management, nothing IT related. All my IT knowledge is self-taught from tinkering, taking things apart to find out how they work, and breaking a lot of things. It took me a long time to find a graduate job after university and even then, whilst working for an IT services company it was not in an IT role. I got a lucky break after being there 18 months to get my first IT role and subsequent roles followed.

First of all I have to say thanks for doing this AMA, I stumbled uppon it in the lottery thread and had to come check it out.

I'm also in IT and my career path looks very similar to yours, I'm transitioning into wintel at the end of this month. My dream is to be a pilot as well, I have some flying experience and I'm hoping to take my PPL sometime in the near future. Do you have any advice for someone who is in a similar situation to you but a few years behind? (I'm 22)

Thanks!

The biggest piece of advice I would give would be to speak to other pilots about schools you are interested in doing your training at. DO NOT pay all your money up front for a PPL. Even if offered lucrative discounts. Pay as you fly.

See how long they have been operating. What is the fleet of aeroplanes they have, & if you want to fly glass cockpit.

Also having a max of two different instructors (one main, one as his backup) to fly with would be beneficial. Someone who can assess your flying and build up a picture as to what your strengths and weaknesses are. Having a different instructor for each lesson will make this difficult.

Thanks for the reply.

So would you say you made the right choice in changing fields? Did you get tired of IT before you made the change or would you still fall back to it if you had to?

IT wasn't something I always wanted to do. Being a pilot was. I enjoyed my IT work, but it wasn't hard & I wasn't challenged. IT however paid well & allowed me to save up quite a chunk of cash for my training. Having it to fall back on is a great safety net to have until I can get an aviation job.

So I assume you made the career change for the dream of flying as opposed to the money, but now that you're in aviation how are career prospects looking for you?

For the dream of flying yes.. but also something that wouldn't have been a total nosedive salary wise.

The industry is picking up, airlines here and there are starting to recruit and I just need to be patient, keep myself current and network. I'm willing to start small and build up.

I appreciate your answers! I'm hoping to get my groundschool done before summer. Do you mind if I add you so I can pick your brain in future if the need arises?

Sure mate. No quizzing me on Rhumb Lines and Polar Stereographic!!

My father was a pilot and briefly flew commercial passenger airlines. I remember he said he got bored with it quickly, because it was very automated and was more about serving the passengers' needs (meaning no fun flying or interesting trips, all very "point A to B" and monotonous). He switched to flying goods delivery trips (not sure what they call that type of flying) because it was smaller planes and no passengers to tend to. He said he much preferred it.

What type of flying are you most interested in? Do you worry you'll get bored?

I have heard other people say the same things, automation can lead to a loss of 'stick and rudder' skills. On the flip side with Commercial aviation & the right airline, you get to fly to some pretty special places.

I'm interested in all kinds of flying and as mentioned will do anything to get that elusive first role that will put hours in my logbook. Passenger, Cargo, Flight Instructor, Bush Flying, Aerial Photography, Pleasure flights.. the list goes on.

Who did your father work for?

How much did it cost? And where are you planning to get a job?

My circumstances differ from the norm, but most Integrated flight schools are the moment are charging in the region of £85,000 give or take. Again in most cases this does not include test fees, exam fees, medical fees, food, accommodation, travel expenses, plane tickets for travel abroad for good weather hour building, visa and immigration fees.. Can you see a pattern building?!

Are you ever tempted, despite the obvious legal ramifications, are you ever tempted to do a barrel roll?

If I was in a plane certified for aerobatic manoeuvres I would love to. Otherwise no I'm never tempted. Death hurts.

How hard is it to get a job flying with a commercial airline and what does the pay look like for the typical candidate?

It's very hard. Imagine all the pilot redundancies of recent years combined with an extension of the retirement age for pilots and add into the mix the 1000's of guys qualifying with shiny new licenses each year... you're fighting for jobs with a lot of people who want their first foot on the ladder. Many of them friends.

How is the attention you get from women?

Are you worried about the increased exposure to radiation?

I don't really tell women I am a pilot, so I guess I am oblivious to it. My mum thinks I look very smart in uniform though.

I'm not too bothered but here's an FAA study if you want to have a read

What was your last day in IT like? I fantasize about getting out of my desk and never going back to corporate.

It was Xmas Eve 2010. A nice present to myself. :-)

Favorite flying movie?

I have a few. Air America is a lot of fun.

Oh I remember that movie, it's with Robert Downey Jr. during his drug years.

So many funny moments. More recently, I sat with a smile on my face at the opening scenes in Flight with Denzel Washington.

Whats your opinion about that movie? Did he deserve his eventual fate?
Edit: Denzel Washington in Flight

I thought it was a great movie. I was very entertained. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves!

Or what a murderous job market makes for you.

Indeed. Which is why it's good to not put all your eggs in one basket.

hypothetically, if you were his copilot do you testify against him?

Hypothetically, I have no idea. A co-pilot could be called to testify if things ever got that far. Working in a multi-crew environment you'd do your best to make sure it never got that far & that the plane and passengers were never put at risk in the first place.

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I would just say, don't look for reasons to do something... ask yourself "why not?" - Go and achieve your dreams, whatever they are.

Life is too short, and especially too short to look back and regret things. It's all a learning experience.

Would this be anywhere close to the same as becoming a helicopter pilot? I'm currently a game developer, but I have fantasies of doing something completely different and I've always thought helicopters seemed very fascinating.

There are many parallels to getting your fixed wing licence and your rotary one. Many of the exams are the same with specific ones for rotary. Then you have to accrue hours and get an instrument rating. Where are you a dev..? in the UK?

yeah, they're similar in regards to exams, but the major difference is price. my instructor was getting his rotary license when i was getting my fixed private license and he was paying triple what i was for rental and instruction. so you need 1200 hours total for a heli atp license (in the states, not all of that time has to be in a heli) and that'll probably come out to $200,000 or so. spendy!

From what I know, the Instrument Rating for rotary is very very expensive, but it's something you really do need for finding work, unlike the fixed wing, where you don't always need it.

It's not a question of not accepting the never ending march of technological progress, however where a long metal tube is filled with people, handing over controls to a remote pilot very far away is very unlikely to happen. It's certainly very different to your warehouse analogy.

Computers already handle 95% of the cruise and approach sections of a lot of passenger flights, but they are monitored by pilots on the plane for when the shit hits the fan. & it frequently does. Your vision proposes someone 'flying' from a computer far away. What if this 'link' is lost or some mechanical problem occurs during flight. Where's your backup. What if the backup fails. You need pilots... and the people 'flying' from their chairs in your dystopian future will still be pilots. It's not going to be 14year old PS3 gamers.

But as I've already pointed out in other posts, there are many different forms of commercial piloting, not just taking you on holiday, and in these scenarios you'd never have remote pilots.

How has this affected your personal life, wife, partner, kids? Do you expect large financial gain in a relative short period of time (5-10 years)?

Personal life: it's meant less going out drinking and socialising but my friends, family and girlfriend have been very supportive. My friends were initially quite sceptical and questioned it, perhaps because I was reaching for a dream whereas they had settled fairly happy lives. But over time they've been great, buying me dinner here and there. A pint down the pub so I don't have to put my hand in my pocket. My girlfriend is also very supportive, but knows my dream will help to look after us in the future.

I'd say for 5-10 years I'll be paying back loans but after that the money will be better and I can enjoy it more. :-)

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Planes aren't going to fall apart because of turbulence.. they're stress tested on the ground to breaking point to make them as strong as possible.

Turbulence can occur anytime of the year, so you can't really plan to avoid it. But the only thing I'd say would be to keep your seatbelt on, because if the plan experiences windsheer or pockets of unstable air, the plane could drop 200ft in a few seconds and you'll go smack on the overhead storage bins and probably be knocked out and seriously injured.

Turbulence is just one of those things you're going to have to get over. It happens.

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The same way I cope with other things that aren't scary, don't bother me, and are extremely likely to kill me. It's only because it's out of your control it bothers you. Planes are designed to fly in turbulence, therefore don't let it bother you.

What are the physical requirements for enrollment ? Is there a specific height for example ?

Different requirements for different medicals. Commercial requires a CAA class one medical. See HERE

what is the best kind of Airplane to fly? as a pilot

That's a bit of an open question. Do you mean for training purposes?

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Haha good stuff. Sounds exciting.

Do you wish now that you had joined the military to receive pilot training? Do you think any preference is given to former military pilots in hiring? Thank you for doing this AMA and pursuing your dream. I want to be a pilot someday.

Maybe in the good old days military pilots might have had an easy route in, but these days they still have to convert their hours and get a Commercial Pilots License. I don't think the military would have suited me.

Scariest moment when you were training?

I never really had any 'scary' moments or times I thought I might die. Going up for your first solo is always a heart pounding time however. It's not until I was back on the ground afterwards that it hit me that I just flew a plane on my own!

My first solo I was thinking my life is literally in my hands (and feet).

When I got back on the ground I was soaked with water by all the other pilots training with me.. Kind of cooled, and calmed me down! :)

Sorry you're not having an easy time of it. I can't say whether or not you can be a pilot. With a medical condition it would depend if you can get a doctor to sign you off for the required medical. I find flying to be one of the most mentally challenging things I've ever done requiring sometimes more concentration than I have to give.

What school did you go to in FL? I had signed up for a flight school in FL and then took a different career path.

The school I went to in FL was owned (in part I believe) by my old school in the UK. It was Orlando Flight Training.. since rebranded as ACA. Then Rebranded again as part of PanAmAcademy. I wasn't the biggest fan of OFT, although in part that could have been due to ownership, financial problems back in the UK. They used a mixture of PA28s and C172s. The PA28s were a bit of a nightmare, often things broken on them or being in maintenance for long periods. Plus in the Florida sun they were hot as fuck to sit inside on the ground.

The FL school wouldn't happen to be Embry Riddle in Daytona Beach was it? I was looking to go there when I first graduated High School. Then I took the college route and am now in IT.

No mate, if you have a look at some of the other comments it was OFT at KISM. Part of the old Cabair brand before it went bankrupt and died.

How did you like living in/visiting Florida?

It was fun & hot! I lived a couple of miles from KISM in a gated housing complex with a pool and gym facilities etc. previously I lived in the Florida Keys for a year back in 1998. Also lots of fun.

Florida has a lot of nice residents but also a lot of weird ones. Bit like any place I guess. Biggest regret whilst I was there due to time was I wanted to go to a firing range but never made it. I still managed to get back to Tampa, Miami, St Pete, Key West, Orlando quite a lot during the summer I was there, & rented a Camero for a week when it was my birthday. :-)

In few words, tell me how to fly an airplane...?

It took me a long time and a lot of words, demonstrations and explanation to fly a plane. I don't think I'd do it justice in a few words. Can we just settle on fairy dust and this image?

This diagram is missing one key piece... money.

airplanes fly with magic and money.

Lets add patience, tears, hard work and sweat to the mix then!

good enough

THIS is a very good and comprehensive explanation. 'See How It Flies'

For the record, I have a degree in Aviation... I know perfectly well how it flies... just wanted to provide you with a challenge. Thanks! :)

Cool.. Clearly more qualified than I am to explain it! :)

As someone who is thinking about going back to school (I already have a Master degree) to switch my career path, do you have any regrets now? Did you have any regrets during piloting school? If you had to incur debt, was it worth it?

I would say the only regret I have is choosing the school I did. Despite all the due diligence I did, all the research and checking, interviews and open days I conducted and attended, nothing prepares you for loosing all your money to the flight school going bankrupt. The school I chose had been operating for over 40 years. But I don't look back in anger because it would not serve me. The debt I incurred when starting the course, the re-mortgaging of my house to continue when bankruptcy happened and the debt I continue to have will all be worth it one day. I have to tell myself this, because otherwise, what am I doing it all for? Hindsight is 20:20.

As an IT professional who probably wants to do other things in life that don't pay as well...

How difficult was it to quit your IT job and take that inevitable pay-cut?

Quite simple. I wanted to do something else more than I did IT. When offered a contract extension, I turned it down. Have a plan and stick to it.

Awesome AMA, thanks! Lots of great advice, definitely some great guidance for me.

I'm 18, planning to start my training at ATP in Chicago at Du Page in Fall. I'm very familiar with flying and I study constantly, but going through school is something that I'm nervous about. I won't have a college education, and the more I look into it the more it seems like it's a necessity. I wanted to rush through getting my commercial license and ratings to get a head start on my hours and career in general, but now I'm not sure, and as I get closer to school I'm starting to panic. I don't even know what field of aviation I'd like to pursue; missionary aviation is great, almost like a calling to me, plus I love back country flying. Problem is I want to put money away early in life which is hard to do with borderline non-profit work, and most missionary aviation organization require a degree in Bible studies. Lolwut. I want to help people, not force my religion on them. I'll never understand why that is a requirement. But anyways, commercial aviation is what I plan on pursuing as of right now, I'm just not sure what the steps are for me, or what I should be doing now to prepare. I am out of high school, and I work part time. I will also be away from Chicago for two months this summer.

Whatever anyone can tell me, I'll be so grateful for. Thanks!

You're 18 so you have all the time in the world. I have a degree and a 2nd career to fall back on if something goes wrong somewhere. You have plenty of time to get where you're going. You say you want to be a Commercial Pilot, but how are your going to pay for it. Do you have the money saved. Saving it yourself through hard work and being responsible will make it mean more to you in the long run. Having loved ones or family pay for it for you takes away some of the responsibility and the necessity to really work for it.

Nobody can really tell you what to do, but try drawing up a plan.. perhaps an aviation related degree at university will be a good place to start.

Since it seems like you are a small engine pilot, what is your current job now? Are you striving to become a pilot for a commercial airline and fly 747s etc?

I fly Diamonds right now. DA42s. They're multi-engine piston class. Someday I'd love to fly Heavy, but till then any job putting hours in my logbook will be great.

How hard was it to give up your original career, and what sort of plan did you follow to make sure you could give it up and still take care of yourself? (For example, did you work part-time? Did you have lots of savings? Did you just move back in with your parents?)

I myself would love to give up my job and pursue my dream, but when I think about the amount of money I'd be losing due to not earning a salary, and also just the risk of not being happy when I finally do finish reskilling myself -> It scares the hell out of me.

The course was full time so I needed to save the money to support myself. You can always pursue a route to a pilot's license and work at the same time. I just wanted to get done as soon as possible.

I've heard many people call pilots " high-class bus drivers" what do you think? and what was the most challenging part in becoming a pilot, i'm thinking of getting my ppl next year.

Not all pilots fly passenger planes, but yes there is a large amount of 'required automation'. It's needed because a computer can fly a plane more accurately and for longer than a human. But pilots will always be needed.

The biggest challenges were probably the studying for the exams and learning brand new concepts, and also paying for it all.

I dont have any questions. Just want to give you props for doing what you want to do, and not wanting to be stuck behind a desk all day.

Thanks mate. :-)

This isn't really a question but I worked with a guy who did the exact opposite. He must be your doppelganger.

Pilot to IT?

Sounds like Bizarro World to me.

Did you find the movie Flight as awful as I did?

I enjoyed the opening scenes, the flight sequences also made me smile a bit and John Goodman's character is great. Overall I enjoyed it.

I hope you're not in it for the money.

Money is not the leading motivator for what I'm doing for sure. But needless to say I wouldn't be putting the amount of money into my career development that I am, without there being the prospect of a decent return on my investment.

how old were you when you decided to switch... 31?

I always knew I wanted to do this, it was just a question of when I actually got started on it. I went to university, got a degree, paid off student loans and bought a house all before starting on the road to my pilot's license. All important life decisions I think. I actively started the preparation for this summer 2008. Revision and studying etc before approaching FTOs.

In the course of your preparation, did you glean any information regarding the sponsorability of trained CPLs, as in visa sponsorability?

I would say becoming a CPL is as close to a dream that I have, but due to my circumstances, I can't train in my home country. (Not a terrorist or anything, it's just, I've never lived here until now and don't speak the language).

So if I were to pursue a CPL--a huge stretch anyway--I would have to rely on being sponsored to become a commercial pilot anyway. And, at least in the U.S., I don't think the major carriers sponsor too many pilots for work visas.

It sounds quite a complicated issue for you and one I can't really help with sorry. There are not many sponsored schemes at the mo, if at all.

Yeah, sounds about right. Somehow, despite the material that must be studied (of course, aerodynamics, flight behavior, even some meteorology if I recall), commercial pilot as a profession doesn't qualify as a "high trained position" or whatever the USCIS calls it.

Sucks for me.

Well, always happy to read about someone making it through though. I loved reading these kinds of threads on sites like airliners.net--people who made their dream of becoming a pilot come true. Enjoy it!

Thanks. It's been tough getting here, but now the real work starts.. finding a job.

I left aviation (AME) to go back to culinary school. Everyone always has to eat.

I went to a hospitality and culinary school many years ago. Coupled with actually working in bars, restaurants and hotels made me realise that's the last thing on earth I wanted to do for the rest of my life! Good luck to you.

Would you rather fight 100 plane sized ducks or one duck sized plane?

Probably the latter, although fighting isn't all it's quacked up to be.

I hope you are not young... 20 years from now most aircraft will be piloted by some high school graduate with a 6 month tech degree by remote from Arizona or Isle of Man.

I doubt that. Concerns over automation would not permit it. Besides, it would only take one accident for it to never be allowed ever again. Pilots will always be needed.