Hi, my name is Doug Scott Kramer and I am a Los Angeles-based actor who was raised in the Scientology cult & escaped at the age of 33. I recently started making a series of vids documenting what this whole insane experience was like. I would b...
Link to Part 1/Intro: https://youtu.be/sE1OK8K9GOA
Part 2: https://youtu.be/nWHWvEQtAps
Part 3: https://youtu.be/RXOx_qvozio
Part 4: https://youtu.be/8r1LfiHo-O8
That was really nice of you to say friend, thank you. I do believe there is currently an opportunity to possibly see this cult fall during my lifetime. They ARE getting hit hard at the moment, but they also have an incredible 'resilience' factor.
Are they stalking you or putting tabs on you?
Not totally yet, but I also just started really speaking out so we'll see what happens in the future. I did a whole vid on this particular subject (Part 3 link above)
Good luck and take care. I am glad they are outed for their evil.
Thank you friend, that means a lot to me. ✌
"not totally yet" best of luck to you bro. Interesting ama!
Thx bro! ✌
Are you familiar with the Angry Gay Pope?
Yeah, I like the dude's work.
How much time it taked to return to normal life? Were you depressed, anxious or other mental disorders while you adapted back to usual life?
It has taken me over a decade now and I'm still working on it - I will be de-programming for the rest of my life in some form, and it left me with a permanent 'wound'. I had all sorts of problems adjusting to 'normal' life and all sorts of 'mental disorders' coming out - some of this is discussed in the vids thus far.
What was the main reason you can't agree with while being there that became the trigger for you decision to leave them?
Actually bro, a concerned friend from my acting class, who knew I was a Scientologist, dropped off a book on my doorstep called 'Combatting Cult Mind Control' by Steve Hassan. An hour into that book and it dawned on me I was in a cult and my entire life had been a lie. That was the 'trigger' point that began my long-ass exit/wake-up process.
This is an amazing book. Steve has done incredible work in the de-programming field. I benefited from his work myself coming it of a yoga based cult. Steve's work is really inspiring. Well done for getting out. Being born into something like this is tremendously difficult to extract from, especially in circumstances like you're in where there is a lack of family support also. Well done trusting yourself.
EDIT: I'm surprised there's a little less awareness about yoga based cults. Perhaps this has to do with the modernisation of yoga and for westerners it's about fitness more than a path to spiritual enlightenment. Yoga is about a spiritual path, including lots of meditation. A cult easily forms in these scenarios when a 'teacher' claims to have unique spiritual insight that only they (usually 'he') can pass on. Therefore the student/seeker gradually becomes dependant on the 'wisdom' and 'insight' of the teacher. This can quite easily lead otherwise rational and sane people to do some pretty outrageous things.
Thank you man! And I completely agree - I owe my life to Mr. Hassan and his book. It should be taught to everyone.
Not so much a question but a quick story you might appreciate. When quite young and impressionable I wandered in for one of those "free eq test" death traps in my city. The whole thing went as I suspect it is generally meant to (ie. 2hrs of waiting around for tests and results then "wow, you are really smart, see this line going up? That's how smart your are... but according to this other graph with the bold scary colours - the one that I'm supposed to frown when I talk about - you are also completely fucked up emotionally and in general as a human being. It's cool though, we can fix that. How much money do you have?").
The thing is. I might have been susceptible to all of that (despite having no money whatsoever), I was pretty naive. However it just so happened at that time I was working in a retail store selling rugs. When I walked in I had immediately noticed all their fucking rugs were upside down, and my first thought was "why are all of your rugs upside down? Like, every single one of them? You fucking nutbags". So it's something I kept asking each of the interviewers about, but none of them could tell me why and they would just look very confused that I was asking such a thing because that evidently isn't in their script. They'd try to get back to taking about how much I needed to read their science fiction shit, and I would just keep on it: "ok, sure. I'll check it out, but first you've got to tell me what is up with all the rugs."
So I basically just looked at that situation and went "no, you people are monsters, I'm out" (I mean, in my head - I'm not a rude person). I guess the moral is my shitty part time retail job saved me from a cult.
Good for you my friend, that's exactly the way to handle it - you saved yourself from a world of hurt ✌ Never under-estimate the power of part-time jobs to save one from unsavory situations. 👍
Dude! What's with the rugs???
... that was a very important piece that tied the whole room together, dude..
I did an interview with a scientologist for a project in my religious studies class. He told that he worked for more than twelve hours a day most of the week. How does this play in in regards to the institution and the indoctrination?
Sleep deprivation and long hours are a key part of the indoctrination process. But only a part, there are other factors at play too, obviously.
Tired brain and body are easy to control.
What do you wish people knew about Scientology?
Great question - I truly wish they knew just how dangerous and life-destroying it really is - and to never step foot into a Scientology organization, never take their 'personality test' to get roped in, etc.
I took one of those tests, and I remember them telling me my cat was stressing me out. Bursted in to laughter and walked out while tears were rolling down my face.
Thank you for exposing such a hateful and corrupt group.
Good on you man, thats the way to handle it. 👍 and thanks bro for the kind words. ✌
Do scientologists drink or smoke weed? Any rules against it?
Weed is an absolute no-no and will get you into heavy ethics trouble. You can drink, but if you have an 'auditing' (counciling) session you have to abstain from drinking for 48 hrs.
What about cigarettes? It seems like they would be incompatible with the purif, etc., but in some other media about Scientology I've heard reports that sea org members smoke like chimneys. Can't say I blame them at all though in their situation, I'd need a smoke too.
Major props to you for moving on with your journey and for having the courage to speak up publicly like you are. All the best man.
Thank you brother, and yes, Scilons smoke like chimneys. L. Con himself smoked 100 frickin cigs (5 packs) a day, I shit you not.
is this due to legality, or is there a reason they specifically oppose cannabis use?
If you smoke weed, the programming Scientology puts people through will "not stick" most likely. Pot can be the 'anti'-brainwash repelant.
They have similar beliefs about psychiatric medication, right? I had heard that a while ago, is it true that they don't want adherents to be on antidepressants or antipsychotics?
Yes, they are 💯% against psychiatry (and psychology, because with a solid psychology backgound one could suss the con easily).
I did an AMA on this subject 2 weeks ago but it was shut down prematurely because I failed to get myself verified beforehand. I have since been verified and so this is 'Part 2'
Link to AMA Part 1 if interested:
Are you not worried you are giving to much identifying info out? Youve given age, rank and a state. I
I'm either going to put myself out there or not, they know who I am, where I live, etc regardless.
Does scientology have its hands in our authority in the regular world that you have escaped into?
Very much so, and I assure you that will be covered. That's an excellent question that needs light shined on it.
Does Scientology have a pedophilia influence in these rings that are starting to be more uncovered?
The simple answer, yes. As more is uncovered about Scientology, that may be a bigger issue than people may realize yet
What was your highest rank in scientology?
I got up to the infamous OT 3 level before I went temporarily insane and began my long wake-up process.
What does Infamous OT 3 level mean?
Operating Thetan Level III - thetan = the spiritual being, ie "you".
Is that what you first learn about Xenu?
What is Xenu? You don’t have to talk about it if you don’t want to!
I have the upmost respect for you man. Wish you all the happiness. I was fortunate to be born into an atheist family - huge respect for getting yourself out of there. Much virtual love ✌🏼💕
Hey man, thank you so much for your encouraging words, that means a lot to me. ✌💕 Xenu was covered perfectly in the South Park episode. When a Scientologist gets up to the confidential level of OT 3, they are hit with this ludicrous story.
How did you feel when you learned about Xenu? Did you buy it or were you like wtf, why did I spend my whole life and all my money for this?
I bought into it 💯%
Have you met any "famous" people though this and did they truly believe or there for monetary gain?
I did meet famous ppl, some were my friends. I'm going to be discussing the whole 'celebrity' side of the cult in this series of vids and why/how they get into it/believe in it.
I'll have to check for that. Thanks.
Would you mind naming a few of those celebrities that you have met? No problem if you don’t want to!
Not yet bro, sorry - that part needs to be handled properly - I'm not going to be trashing or talking shit about these people, because like I said some are (were) my friends. I will be discussing that, but all in due time and with the way that I want to lay it out.
Us Scientology dangerous? And what are their goals?
Absolutely it is dangerous, it will destroy your mental well-being and life if you become a Scientologist, guaranteed to happen - it's only a matter of time.
Their goal is to "clear the planet" - i.e., to make you, I, and everyone else on the planet into a Scientologist - and to run the planet according to Scientology principles. Fun, no?
Are you in touch with your parents or are they still both in the cult? How about other friends that you grew up with, is anyone else escaped like yourself?
Nope, i'm the only one (minus one friend who was already almost 'out' anyways) who left. I have had very little contact with my family for a decade now - they will remain Scientologists till they hit the grave, unfortunately. :-(
I’m sorry to hear that, and I hope you’ve found a good support system since! Thank you for doing this, and I wish you the very best.
Thank you very much friend. 💓 and the support that has come out of the woodwork recently has been amazing. ✌
Hi Doug, well done for getting out and very brave for speaking out. Did any of the scientologists ever question it in secret? Like would you ever have a private conversation with someone where you'd question what the hell was going on? Trying to get a sense if there are many others like you.
What you're asking happened all the time, between fellow Scientology family members and friends, but its so damn difficult to try to talk about your doubts with other Scilons that its a whole subject in itself. I'm glad you brought that up, that's such a great question which I will definitely cover in more detail in these vids, thank you. 👍✌
How does scientology brainwash people into joining them? And how does the rank system work?
Thanks for doing this AMA btw, i hope you the best of luck in the future
Thx man - the brainwashing process is intricate and a major reason why I'm doing this, to break that down for people. I discussed in Part 4 how my father was roped in, but there's many ways that I will be covering in the future
Friends, this has been a most-epic session, thank you so much for all the amazing and thought-provoking questions. I loved doing this and will hold another one in a couple of weeks. The response has been overwhelming and there are so many questions I have still to answer from people.
I've been doing this AMA for several hours now and must get some food in my system and take a break. I will get to every single person who asked a question here and it will be answered within a day or 2. Thank you all so much, this was such a blast.
Until the next one - stay safe and sane out there friends. 🙏✌💕
Did you ever go to gold base? If so what was it like? Did you get to see Hubbard's preserved house? Congrats on escaping I hope you don't get harassed too much in the future
Thank you friend, no I never made it out to Gold Base, but I did do several of Gold's stupid videos lol. Only the senior management works at Gold Base, and people are screened heavily before being able to go in there if they are not a Sea Org member/Scientologist.
Good old Gilman Springs road. I drove through there the other day wondering which poor bastards were trapped inside. Glad you made it out of the cult.
Thank you bud. ✌
Where is Shelly Miscavige?
If alive, she is being holed up at CST (Church of Spiritual Technology), a very secretive Scientology facility
What's the biggest secret that you learned that the general population don't know?
Well, everyone knows their 'big secret' when it comes to what is revealed on the infamous OT 3 level (depicted perfectly on South Park) - but they have many, many other secrets that are far more important for people to be made aware of, hence why I'm doing this series of vids exposing all of it.
Aren’t you scared of ‘ vanishing’ after lifting the lid?
No - I'd rather speak the truth and warn others, it feels like the correct thing to do after all this shit.
Like what? Anything that wasn't in South Park 15 years ago or Going Clear 5 years ago?
The mysterious deaths, the blackmail that goes on with members, there's endless shit to cover. Maybe people know already ..
From various other Documentaries, it seems Scientology is struggling to get new recruits, and most members are now born into it. Do you think the "religion" is on its way out? And if so, what support do you think there needs to be for people like yourself who leave?
Dann, what great questions - I do think it is kinda "on the way out", yes - but man, people are STILL getting into it to this day - I just heard from someone the other day that he lost his girlfriend to the cult just a few weeks ago.
And there will definitely need to be a form of serious healing given to still-believing Scientologists when/if they come out of it. Because just removing their tax exempt status will not cause Scilons to heal, it would cause them to resent that their 'religion' was just taken from them and that's not the way to go about it in my opinion. More is needed than just revoking their tax-exempt status, but thats a necessary part as well to prevent ppl from becoming ensnared in the future.
Thank for your answer!
Part of me wonders if all this exposure Scientology is getting, whilst clearly negative to well balanced people, is actually attracting people who seem to need something else in their life?
Jesus, you're probably right. I never even thought of that, ain't that ironic lol. But you're so right I'm sure. 😢
Hi! Glad you escaped the cult!
What was the biggest staying power in the organisation for you and what was your wake up call to leave?
A little follow up question if you feel like answering a third...What do you think the repercussions will be by publicising your thoughts?
Hi - the reprecussions part I did a vid on (see Part 3 vid link above). The biggest staying power, and what got me into it in the first place, is that my family is in it. Leaving means losing your family, that was a huge 'staying power' part for me.
Also, realize that Scientology uses incredible amounts of covert hypnotism (called 'auditing' or 'training') to 'make you believe", and this is a huge part of the 'staying power' that is not emphasized enough - I will be covering the hypnosis aspect of the cult in great detail as this series moves forward.
What when you were in your 30's did you still find convincing about the claims of the cult? -and, what's the most mental claim you ever were convinced by?
Thats a really broad range question friend, but let me put it this way: I was indoctrinated into the cult as a kid when my father got into it, so it wasn't until I had a 'wake-up' call in my 30s that I began questioning it.
Age 33? Tom Cruise wants to know your location.
Haha - put him on the phone, I'll tell him where I'm located. :-)
I'm genuinely curious. What would you say to him if you could? Do you think he is a vulnerable victim trapped in an oppressive system or one of the oppressors? I understand it is likely both, but do you think he is a good guy who knows he's hurting people and can't stop or the sad opposite?
Wow, heavy-ass question friend. Yeah man, that is so hard to answer because I do believe he is actually a victim and he most definitely has been ruthlessly manipulated - to a degree and scale that would make the average person's head spin. But he also might have had (does have) narcissistic/sociopathic traits to begin with - I'm not a psychologist and these are just my guesses/opinions.
I would have the same things to say to him as I would my parents. It really is impossible to 'talk' someone out of a cult, so I'd probably just hope that he or maybe my parents would come across these vids someday, when the time was right - and it could/might snap them out of it to some degree, who knows. ✌ that's such a diff-cult question to answer my dude, but an excellent one ... 👌👍
What was good about Scientology?
I'd assume that there has to be some positives that kept you there and that brings in new people. Is there teachings from it that you do still use?
This is a great question that I've been asked a lot. There is a 'high' in feeling that you and your fellow-Scilons around you have 'all the answers to life", there is great comradarie and friendship/bonding that develops, like being in the military I imagine might feel. However, these are all dependent on 'believing in Scientology' - when that belief drops because you realize you've been hypnotized and conned out of your life step-by-slow-step, the only thing to 'miss' is your family and friends still under the 'spell' that haven't woken from it yet. Scientology really is ALL a hoax - and by the end of these vids, there will be no question about that fact.
Have you made sure to have plenty of backups for your material? Never trust Scientology not taking stuff down from YouTube.
A torrent would be recommended.
I'm glad you mentioned that, thank you. Someone else told me the same thing recently so I have that covered. 👍
In spite of all this do you still consider yourself religious or are you just done with all religion as a whole?
That's a most excellent question. I am not 'religious' and I will never subscribe to one again - but the very process of 'de-programming/waking up' did have a profound 'spiritual' effect on me, completely unintentionally, that I will be discussing in great detail as the series progresses..
Were there orgies?
Lol nope- it's not a 'sex cult' per se.
Whats your thoughts on Lean Remini and have you thought of collaborating with her?
She has helped expose Scientology in a big way and has helped to heal a lot of people by doing so, I applaud the effort and she has brass 'balls' imo. I didn't know Leah when I was in the cult - if she ever reaches out, great. If not, I'll just continue solo or join up with people along this journey. A lot of very kind and helpful people have reached out to me recently, the support has been overwgelming. 👌
What is the deepest darkest secret you know about Scientology , something that no one knows and could get you into serious trouble if it was said ?
Jesus, there's most likely a lot. If you start investigating or seriously looking into the cult's 'body count' or 'suicides", for example - some interesting information would probably come to light ...
Can Scientology survive beyond David Miscavige? It appears to be so strongly lead by a single person that I wonder how it will exist after he is gone?
Great question - its possible, it survived beyond L. Con.
Do you know Karin?
I was waiting for the obligatory "Hi Karen!", it never tires lol. 😬 thank you for covering that. 👌
Maybe 'she' will pipe in here soon and let us all know with a comment like "this asshole doesn't know dick about Scientology". 😬
What are your thoughts on the South Park episode of Scientology?
It laid it out perfectly.
How did your parents react when you left the church? Did they disconnect from you and have you declared an SP?
I have had very little contact with my parents over the last decade - they are strangers to me now. They are very good, decent people - I love my family and I know they love me too deep down. They simply can't understand why I left and why I believe Scientology to be unhealthy for people (putting it mildly). They have to not talk to me in any real way because that's they way they have been programmed to think.
What was the living situation like? How do they try and stop you from leaving the cult? Very happy for you and hope you enjoy living the rest of your life!
Thank you friend - the upper management level at places like Gold Base do imprison people, making it hard to leave/escape. But for the average-joe Scilon, it's a mental prison, not a physical one - and a mental prison that you aren't even aware you are in can be far harder to escape/leave than that of a physical one you are aware of.
What were you required to do to reach OT 3 and "Walk through the wall of fire"? (Both mentally and physically) Thankyou for this glimpse into how the cult works.
There's a lot of 'preps' before you are even 'allowed' onto the confidential levels. I had to sign a (bogus) waiver saying if I ever reveal these contents to anyone (lol) I will be fined like $100,000 for each violation/infraction, I was put through a 'security check' on the e-meter to make sure "my ethics were in", etc. They make it a real pain-in-the-ass to actually get onto the level despite paying for it. I'm going to cover this aspect in the future, thank you for the excellent question. ✌
What belief/religion are you in now?
None, but the process of 'waking up' did have a profound effect on my life 'spiritually' that I'm going to be discussing after the entire story is laid out and told.
My question is, do the congregates attend church and follow the doctrine to embrace Scientology as a religion of choice or to simply elevate their social status among Hollywood elites?
Thanks for doing AMA.
Its almost all about elevating your business goals or your personal goals. The 'religion' aspect was something Hubbard threw on to avoid taxes and prosecution. Scientologists are not very 'religious' lets say, though they will tell you otherwise
What level of OT reach and how much spend to get there?
Gone down the Xenu rabbit hole yet?
Explain E-Meters and your experience with them while a believer and now think of them now that you left?
Thats a lot to try to answer with a million questions stacking up here lol - can I do you just the first one please? The other questions are covered somewhat already in the series and will be fully answered by the end.
I got up to level OT III, where you learn the Xenu story - this level caused me to literally lose my mind and bagan my slow and long wake-up process. I would say it cost about $500,000 (give or take) to get there over the years rising up the levels. Some ppl spend much more by the time they arrive to this level, some maybe a little less getting there.
Has anyone ever thought to try to get the Mormons to go in evangelize them? or maybe even the Jehovah's witnesses? You know how they go around and people knocking on doors? Have them knock on all the Scientologists doors ,songke-mindedly why not? likewise how come the scientologists haven't targeted the Mormons? They could gain a lot of ground in Utah.
Scientologists, Mormons, and JWs should join forces and pool their collective resources. Think of the number of doorbells they could hit then. 👍
Didn't Leah already try this?
Yup, and she's still working on it, bless her - because there the cult still stands. She's doing great work in my opinion and has helped so many people. It might take an army to bring it down. :-)
Honest question bc idk... do u think u are biased from a bad experience? Are there people that enjoy scientology? Ex catholics and others hate their old religion too... i mean, if it was that bad, it would be shut down, right?
That's a completely legit question - hand on heart, I don't feel a bias - I recognize the inherent dangers in just stepping foot into a Scientology organization and people need to know what they are getting into because the cult will not inform them.
Also, if you leave the Catholic church, for example, you can walk out the door. Leaving Scientology is not that simple.
And dude, there are definitely 'bitter' and 'disgruntled' ex-members that have a bias and a bone to pick, absolutely there are. I dont feel that way myself, I want to simply warn people and let them know what I learned so they can avoid it for their own safety/well-being. ✌
Are you done with any way of spiritual philosophy, even when it doesn't involve organized religious institutions? After such a hard experience one would think no one wants to think of that kind of thing again.
I answered this in some of the above questions friend. ✌ this is a great question and at the end of this series I'm going to do a whole vid on that part in particular. I don't see the world and reality now anything like I did when I was a hypnotized Scilon.
Hi Doug, thanks for sharing! What is it like knowing you may be "suicided" for releasing information like this?
I won't - and if they did do that to me and were able to pull it off, it will be better to go out speaking the truth than to be intimidated into keeping silent.
Is the ritual in scientology likes in satan worshipper?
Not rituals per se like one might at first think - but the occult and 'satanism' are at the core of Scientology, as Hubbard's own son has attested to. This is a huge and important part of Scientology that I promise you will be covered in greater detail than probably has come out before
Were you witness to, or a victim of, any sexual abuse?
No, but it does go on most definitely.
Do you think Scientology will continue to be such a strong "religion" or is it possibly on its way out? I think you are very brave and I admire you, and wish you the best for the future.
View HistoryShare Link