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Comments: 148 • Responses: 47  • Date: 

ManbosMambo62 karma

It looks great, but I can't be the only one that let out a groan at yet-another-secret-identity-game.

Werewolf, Coup, Secret Hitler, the Resistence, Citadels, etc are great games, but I am burnt out on the mechanic of secret identities and secret alliances.

How will this game be different?

JustAnotherSimian24 karma

Absolutely agree - this is such an important question for me to answer correctly, because I do not want Patriot to fall in the same trap in its perception. This game is not your run of the mill, he-said-she-said social deception game.

Patriot is a social deception and strategy board game. Whether or not it is your objective to assassinate or save the President, you must work toward maintaining the nation of Karmonia.

Every round, you have to meet objectives set by the secret assassin.

Every turn, you have to pass missions that are challenging.

You also have the ability to pursue 'scientific projects' within the game for personal gain.

There are a lot of moving parts in this game that you need to manage as a group. There is a lot open for interpretation as a player - and a lot of ways to play the game due to the number of cards, and options to choose.

Okay - so you have all of that. and then, layered on top of that are secret allegiances and missions that you have to achieve to win the game. Boom. Hope I have your support. If, by chance, this does intrigue you - please check out the video on the KS page. Dan from Game Boy Geek does an amazing job explaining the game in detail.

jonstosik25 karma

What was the hardest part of making the game for you? Was it managing time or people or was it working in game play issues?

JustAnotherSimian40 karma

When we started Patriot, the artists and I made it clear that we are not going to compromise the quality of the game for deadlines. That's why we took 3.5 years to develop the game. It's a game of passion, and if the Kickstarter is successful because of that, then that just shows that working hard without compromising quality actually works.

A big challenge for me was making the rulebook legible. We are up to our 12th iteration of the rules, and I honestly never thought I'd have to edit and flip around things that just made sense to me. I didn't realise how valuable and important play testing is until I actually had a few sessions complete.

where_is_the_cheese5 karma

Can you give any examples of rules that made sense to you but didn't to the play testers?

JustAnotherSimian5 karma

It was mainly the language and phrasing used - for example in the rulebook I had one section that used to say 'As per the character card, players may pick up 1 Influence card of any type'

People assumed this to mean ' Pick up any influence card'

What it should have said is 'Each player may pick up 1x Influence Card. Normal Influence Card type rules apply (refer page 7).'

It is very important to be specific!

DrSteveBrule_FYH13 karma

Are there any hunks in this game?

JustAnotherSimian35 karma

Only the guy who made it ;)

MugikMagician10 karma

How come in your post description it says 3-7 player's, but at the bottom it's says 3-6 30 min per player?

Which is it? How many players is it in the full game Patriot?

JustAnotherSimian8 karma

It's 3 to 6 players. Apologies, that was a typo. I'm way too excited about the campaign.

hr249 karma

The game sounds similar to Secret Hitler. How different is it? Good luck with the launch, it does have me intrigued.

JustAnotherSimian9 karma

Patriot is very different from Secret Hitler, but it does share a few similar themes like the fact that it's based on a secret allegiance and politics.

For starters, Patriot is a social deception and a strategy game, so there is a huge element of teamwork, thinking and juggling resources. Another big difference is that Patriot has a substantial game board where you can do a bunch of cool stuff (you'll see this in the images). This is just the tip of the iceberg, the Kickstarter link has a good trailer that I recommend watching.

EvanMinn2 karma

It might help if your kickstarter page's gameplay section actually described the gameplay. Instead it describes various elements in isolation and doesn't really talk about how the game plays.

Even here, when someone is questioning the gameplay, you are vague about how it works.

When I go to a kickstater page, the first thing I look for is a description of how the game plays. I scroll past all the marketing fluff and component lists. That is how I decide whether it seems to be worth spending time watching videos and/or reading rules.

To be honest, I scrolled through your page and I have a vague idea of the kind of game it is but not much idea on how the gameplay works so I bailed without clicking any links.

The breathless marketing hyperbole of how it is a "massive" game and "intensely" strategic doesn't sell me on a game. Intriguing gameplay does. Your game might have it but I can't tell from the kickstarter page.

Just as a single example, look at the overview section of the game Museum.

JustAnotherSimian3 karma

You have some legitimate feedback here and I will try to address it the best I can.

Can I add that the full rule book is already available now, and it's accessible on the Kickstarter page. The link is also here if you want to view it directly (best viewed in double page spread).

I also had Dan from Game Boy Geek create a concise video on how to play which you can view here, if you are so inclined.

It's not a simple game, but I have tried to give a taste of gameplay as best I can without compromising a quality Kickstarter launch. Thanks!

EvanMinn0 karma

Ok, but you are missing the point: I only watch videos or read rulebooks of games who have already convinced me that the gameplay is interesting enough to warrant my investing that time.

Sending me off somewhere else does not solve the problem.

I can cite example after example of 'not simple' games that manage to give potential backers an idea of how the gameplay works without having to send them to a video or the rulebook.

It's your prerogative if you don't want put the effort into having that kind of information on your kickstarter page. I am just letting you know that you lose some potential backers by making that choice.

JustAnotherSimian1 karma

I have now added a gameplay example to the page. Thank you for the feedback. I have taken it on board and used it! Hope I can count on your support in this campaign :)

Check it out here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/647545924/patriot-a-massive-board-game-for-3-to-6-players

2noefx1 karma

Why is the kickstarter cancelled? :/

JustAnotherSimian2 karma

Hi there, you are correct, the Kickstarter is cancelled :( it didn’t get enough steam to get off the ground. But do not worry, I’ll be relaunching in July! Cheer out my post here for more detail. Sorry about this.

Voidshrine2 karma

Just got back into the thread to see how it was going :( But hey, I'll make a reminder (feel free to message me at the rerelease as well) to help and support the project, because I really like your take on the "hidden identity" genre and I think it's going to be a splendid game.

One thing the kickstarted lacked (which I see you've now added) was a gameplay example. Other than that perhaps a TL;DR section with links to all aspects you're covering without pictures both in the kickstarter and the reddit post, such as:

TLDR: [Intro video], [Reviews], [Gameplay example]
and so forth, so people can navigate to what they want to see on the Kickstarter, because while the presentation is beautiful, it's hard to find what you want withouth scrolling through the entire thing.

Anyway, I look forward to the relaunch, best of luck! :)

JustAnotherSimian1 karma

Thanks. You’re completely right, I added a gameplay section when it was already too late. I think one of the biggest things for me next campaign will be ensuring that the order of messages, and messages in general will be in the right order.

I can’t stress enough how much I appreciate the support and feedback. Keep your sights on July and make sure you follow along on social media!

Troppin8 karma

The Patriot or Braveheart?

JustAnotherSimian17 karma

I feel obligated to say The Patriot, but my heart lies with Braveheart. That's not a fair question.

Logan_Maransy8 karma

What are some of your favorite board games? And did some of those games inspire you to create this strategy/social deduction game?

How many other strategy and/or social deduction board games have you played to do "research" on the existing IP in this genre?

JustAnotherSimian10 karma

My all time favourite game is Battlestar Galactica: The Board Game - my friends and I are completely obsessed with the TV show, and weirdly enough the board game is even better. We have probably sunk 100+ hours into playing it.

There are definitely some aspects of Patriot that lend into the mechanics of Battlestar Galactica - for example our Brief Cards and Influence cards are also something BSG uses. However, there's also a few different mechanics that I'm fairly confident are unique - for example when (and how) rioters attack in the game. If you are interested in this - check out the trailer on the KS page.

If you are a fan of social deception games, I highly recommend Salem, and Infected (they have KS heritage), and also Coup. They are all super solid games & are quite quick to play. Would love to know your favourite games!

Squeezie918 karma

I just backed the game because I thought it's very similar to MY favorite game Battlestar Galactica. After reading this comment I'm happy I did back you.

JustAnotherSimian3 karma

Thank you!

Azfor6 karma

Why did you name it "Patriot"?

JustAnotherSimian30 karma

At the core of the game, you are consistently asking yourself who is on your side, and who is against you. You are part of the President's cabinet - members who are supposed to represent the definition of Patriotism. However, there are riots outside the window. There are assassination attempts against the President. There is one member inside your group who is betraying the President.

So... Who is right? The President? Or the citizens who are revolting against the government?

The very definition of 'what makes a Patriot?' is being questioned... Every character in this game thinks they are a Patriot, but not everyone is right.

jkAUS6 karma

The artwork looks amazing. Who designed it? What was he inspiration behind the characters?

JustAnotherSimian6 karma

I had 3 amazing artists who helped me design Patriot. Jeff Brown who was the lead artist, Ali Phelps who was another lead artist and also designed all the characters, and Bhushan Arekar who did all of the 3D miniatures.

Actually, taking it back a step... The artists that worked with me were very skilled, however the best asset that we had during the 3.5 years we worked together on this was communication. Jeff, Ali and I collectively made an effort to catch up almost every weekend to discuss art strategy, design and our collective ideas in how to make this project AWESOME. There are well over 100 pieces of art in this game, and we tried to convey our theme throughout every one.

I'm so lucky that I got a team that was able to work together, and weren't afraid of trying out new ideas and looking at things from a different light.

In regard to the characters, Ali and I decided that these characters were not supposed to be stunning, glamourous and good looking. These characters are supposed to look real. Look at Hilbert, for example! image.

Dude. He is in no way, shape or form healthy. But he is an amazing character nonetheless with a hilarious backstory (did I mention each of the 14 characters have a backstory on the back of their character cards?). Ali and I love Hilbert to bits.

cjaustin17924 karma

Have you sold any units to date? And how are financials of the company that hasn't released its first product yet?

JustAnotherSimian11 karma

No units sold to date - it's being launched for the very first time... EVER... in 15 minutes on Kickstarter. Consider me nervous, but excited.

If you have a look at the KS page in a few minutes, you'll see that a lot of hard work has already been put into the game. It's practically ready for manufacturing, and I have done this by working full time and funding the artists with my own money.

Hopefully the Kickstarter is a success. I guess you could call this an educated risk - but it's something I feel so passionate about that I don't mind.

popoley4221998_23 karma

Hey OP!

What board games did you play as a child/teen?

JustAnotherSimian2 karma

Hi Popoley. Hope you're having a lovely day and that I can count on you for Kickstarter support.

I was definitely a monopoly kid. However my life changed when I started to play Risk (for better or worse? who knows..). How about yours?

-QuantumFury-3 karma

Holy crap you’re Australian‽

Anyways, onto the real question: What are some of the surprisingly difficult parts of making such a game? I’d think balancing would be an issue, is that true?

JustAnotherSimian1 karma

I am! Hello, fellow Aussie! Getting a bit chilly, isn't it?

I'd have to agree with you - balancing was the hardest part of the game. Because Patriot is not a very simple game (you may have seen me mention that there are a lot of moving parts), we had to make a lot of iterations when attempting to make each of the play tiles even.

If talking about the whole process, social media was definitely the hardest part for me. I just want to launch the game and have it be successful, so people like me can play it. But there's a lot more to developing a game than... well.. developing a game. You need to be a businessman, a salesperson, a social media manager, a design director, and most importantly a beer drinker. Or maybe that's just me.

Shoopalapa2 karma

Do you have any good strories from playing this game with friends and family?

JustAnotherSimian2 karma

We recently played a game where NO ONE was the assassin (which can happen if the president holds the 'Kill the President' allegiance card), but everyone was sure it was one another. Such is life!

JustAnotherSimian2 karma

So it looks like my AMA was deleted. I have no idea why. Sorry folks.

Freakzooi2 karma

Supporter on kickstarter here! I am always a big fan of the psychological element in tabletop games since it gives them great replayability.

This game seems to offer that and some added strategy so I hope you will make your goals!

Question: any failed ideas you want to share?

JustAnotherSimian1 karma

Thank you for your support! I sincerely appreciate it!

Originally, we wanted to make the game board as a birds eye view and 5 separate pieces - we tried and tried and tried to make it work... but it just wouldn’t happen. Then Jeff came up with the idea that we should design the board as if you’re looking into the city. It worked well!

robotbirb2 karma

Hi! I'm part of a card game design/dev team as an editor. We were looking into doing the Kickstarter thing ourselves, maybe. What has been the most unexpected thing about doing a Kickstarter? Do you like the Kickstarter system? Do you ever take your game anywhere to test, and if so, where?

JustAnotherSimian2 karma

Hi /u/robobirb

Unless you land a major distribution deal, Kickstarter is generally the most important tool for any indie board game dev.

The most unexpected thing about Kickstarter is how clunky it is building the pages. It's a very weird posting system, and you have to treat it very gently!

Best of luck in your card game! Happy to help you out more where possible.

IWasTheFirstKlund2 karma

The theme/type isn't really up my alley, but the artwork is fantastic, and I hope that you crush your Kickstarter! Um... I need a question...

When designing a game, how do you decide between using well-known mechanics that make the game easier to "sell" (It has a gotcha! mechanic just like Sorry!) and trying to come up with something unique (See, we've got these widgets that you need to twist asynchronously with the earth's orbit...)?

JustAnotherSimian1 karma

Thank you - Jeff, Ali and I are very proud of the theme, too.

Basically, I decided to make a game that I would want to play and tried to work backwards from there. I believe there are enough selling points as there is! However there are some mechanics that are shared with other games - E.G. I mentioned in another comment that we use some mechanics that are also seen in Battlestar Galactica!

Ritosha_2 karma

do you consider yourself a patriot? :) Very interesting looking game, good luck!

JustAnotherSimian4 karma

Thank you, hope I can count on your support.

A bit of context: I'm Aussie. I feel like I am a patriot - Australia is a beautiful melting pot of a country filled with so many personalities, and just stunning landscapes everywhere. I love living here.

In saying that, a common trend for a lot of people my age (mid 20's) is that they are extremely disengaged with the politics of the country. We have spent so many years with governments with basically the same opinion. So... Kinda!

BrigadierAngus1 karma

So when and where can we buy it??

JustAnotherSimian1 karma

Right here, friend! Right now!

Papashvilli1 karma

Well it’s an hour later - how’d it go?

JustAnotherSimian1 karma

The launch was relatively strong - we now have 85 backers, and they are steadily coming in. Fingers crossed this trend continues!

Heebejeeby1 karma

What kind of market research have you done? What would you say the minimum age would be for a person to understand and enjoy the game? As a person who used to love board games but has given them up in favor of video games, how would you convince me to buy Patriot? I wish you the best of luck!

JustAnotherSimian2 karma

I have done quite a bit of market research into Kickstarter games. What it tells me is that the biggest markets are USA, UK, Canada and then Australia. That's what I have built my shipping campaign around & made sure that it stays as low cost for the consumer as possible!

14+

Let me tell you why I love video games. Video games get you immersed into the story. At times, you feel like you are LIVING the story. Well, Patriot does the same. You enter the world of Karmonia - it's on the brink of destruction. You have a secret mission, and a lot of plot lines that make Patriot different every time you play it. When I play Patriot, I get the feeling of immersion that I get from video games, however I

wonkyMerkinJerkin1 karma

How much has the basic idea of the game changed since you came up with it?

JustAnotherSimian1 karma

The core concept has stayed the same... But jeez, I could not even tell you how many rule iterations we've had over the years. We are up to rule book #12!

Mase5981 karma

Hopefully I'm not too late to this, but is there any plans to possibly make a digital version to play online with others?

I personally would think it's a good idea. Considering the fundamentals are present, it's just putting it together as well as adding things such as audio, UI, etc.

Also 2nd question if possible: Depending on how the game plays, is there any strats that you guys have found while testing that seem really good?

Petr Crumb main btw.

JustAnotherSimian1 karma

This would be a lot of fun, if the Kickstarter goes well I will look into it!

My go-to strat is DENY EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME! Just joking, haha! I think the biggest strategy is to try to keep a low profile and be in the 'middle ground'. The worst thing to do is draw too much attention to yourself! Hope I have your support in this campaign :)

Voidshrine1 karma

I checked out your kickstarter and the video actually left me super intrigued! Maybe this is a common question, but what led you into deciding to make your own game? Where did it spark from?

Is there any experience or other game that significantly influenced your design of the game?

JustAnotherSimian2 karma

Thank you! I hope I can count on you for support in the KS page!

Before I started on the journey of creating a board game three and a half years ago, I was in search of a creative outlet. My friends and I had been playing board games for a solid 5 years, so things kind of clicked in place for me after I realized that creating a board game would be the perfect mixture of design & artwork, strategy and most importantly – fun!

Initially I had a lot of bad ideas, but after some time the idea of Patriot dropped from brain to paper, and it really started to click.

In regard to inspiration/influence - my friends and I have a whole array of games. We love Coup, Salem, Infected in the social deception category... But we also love the big boys like Risk, and Battlestar Galactica!

fartingpinetree1 karma

I've been making a board game for fun on the side how do go from Hobby to something more serious?

JustAnotherSimian2 karma

When you start thinking about components, manufacturing and pricing points, you're generally there. Just don't lose your passion! I talk about this (and a few other tips) a bit more in the interview I gave with Meeple Momma. See it here down the bottom

AlmostWrongSometimes1 karma

Does the President need to consume whole raw onions to stay alive?

JustAnotherSimian3 karma

yes

dessar1001 karma

Have you thought about getting a popular game group to try it? The Yogscast are always great value!

JustAnotherSimian1 karma

I would love that! Alas, these groups are usually very, very busy and you have to book these kinds of things in months in advance, believe it or not!

_FRANKENSTEIN_1 karma

How long does it take to learn the game mechanics?

I mean it looks complicated

JustAnotherSimian1 karma

Hi /u/_FRANKENSTEIN_ - about 30 minutes in total. It's best to read the rules in full before playing, if possible. We have worked hard to ensure that it's concise as possible.

Hope I can count on your support. Thanks.

HeartsOfHeroesGaming1 karma

Can't find it, what is the kickstarter link?

JustAnotherSimian7 karma

It's right here!

Rorodoedoe1 karma

Making my own boardgame, not nearly as fancylooking as your game but ready to be played. If you reach your goal on kickstarter, what will the next step be, how are you going to bring your game out there?

JustAnotherSimian1 karma

I have an in-depth distribution plan, built through manufacturing timelines (given to me by the manufacturer) and also added a month of buffer for shipping! It should be quite an achievable timeline!

Check out the KS page for more info on shipping... Hope I have your support!

ghost_hamster1 karma

Cool looking game!

I own a lot of board games, and have a few less convential questions.

I sleeve the cards in my board games. (there's nothing worse than people using greasy post-snack fingers to handle my precious cards). Will the cards in your game be in a standard size, or are their dimensions particular to your game?

Off the back of that, some games pack their bits very tightly into the box. Which means that once cards are sleeved, things don't fit. Is this something you plan to consider once you hit the manufacture stage?

Assuming the game is a success (and I hope it is!) do you have any expansions to the game planned?

JustAnotherSimian2 karma

Thank you! Hope I can count on your support!

I also love card sleeves & hate sticky fingers, haha. There are a few card dimensions we utilise (all in mm)

44mm x 67mm

63mm x 88mm

95mm x 165mm

70mm x 110mm

These are standard sizes and can all be found on the PandaGM website!

jonstosik1 karma

Have you ever seen a ghost?

JustAnotherSimian6 karma

Every time I look in the mirror.

bruchan1 karma

Isn't this the same as San Gio Sha? It seems quite similar, but an English version.

JustAnotherSimian1 karma

I'm not aware of that game...! Will have to check it out.

huntinkallim1 karma

Do you have any intentions of taping a playthrough of the game before the KS ends? I'd like to see the mechanics in a bit more detail but it looks very cool.

JustAnotherSimian2 karma

Hi /u/huntinkallim - I have added a round-by-round gameplay example to the page. This should hit the mark!

Check it out here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/647545924/patriot-a-massive-board-game-for-3-to-6-players

Hope I can count on your support!

JustAnotherSimian2 karma

It's on the cards! For now - please check out the rulebook and Dan (the Game Boy Geek's) video on the main KS page. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/647545924/patriot-a-massive-board-game-for-3-to-6-players

Phenie-tan1 karma

How language dependant will your game be? A lot of hidden identity games are awesome as only one person needs to fluent enough in the language to expain it to others, and then all can play. No hidden information is generally text based.

Your game looks a little more convoluted than say, The Resistance, which worked with non-English speakers in my group perfectly. How hard of a time will non-English speakers have with Patriot?

JustAnotherSimian1 karma

I would love to say otherwise, however I do not want to tell you something that is incorrect. I do believe this Patriot heavily dependent on the English language. Sorry /u/Phenie-tan !

MustHugEveryCat1 karma

Can you write out how a turn would play out? Whenever someone explains how a board game works or reads the rules beforehand, I have a hard time grasping the game, that doesn't happen until I actually experience it being played. So to get an idea of the game being played, can you go through a hypothetical turn (or round - I'll take more)?

JustAnotherSimian2 karma

Hi /u/MustHugEveryCat

Love your username. Just letting you know that I have added a round-by-round gameplay example to the page. This should hit the mark!

Check it out here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/647545924/patriot-a-massive-board-game-for-3-to-6-players

Hope I can count on your support!

JustAnotherSimian1 karma

Sure - here's the rules for reference, though. Pages 3 through 6 are the best reference guides.

I'm going to keep this short and sweet for you, just so you get a feeling of the game style.

Everyone receives an allegiance card (to save, save with a secondary mission, or kill the president).

There are 7 letters that contain demands by the games assassin (predefined). Each round, the letter increases in difficulty. You, as a player in the game, have to meet these demands, lest eventually The President will die. Your turns will give you the opportunity to meet these demands by being able to do stuff

On your turn, you can do one of the 4 things:

  1. Go to the war room and move or deploy troops, or kill rioters (the baddies)

  2. Go to the surveillance centre and build beacons for a cost

  3. Go to the Research Lab and pursue scientific missions in order to get a personal, in-game advantage

  4. Gain finances (coins) from the treasury in order to buy beacons and meet assassin demands

You also card these 4 types of cards called 'influence cards' that you use to vote against end of turn mission cards (called Brief Cards) that the group is assigned.

This is a VERY summarised version just so you can see how it would function on a basic level. Hopefully it helps a bit, and I can count on your support!

jerocool20 karma

Why are you starting an ama 5 in the morning?

JustAnotherSimian25 karma

I came here to talk to you! Hi!

HeartsOfHeroesGaming-2 karma

I am looking forward to the game. It looks brilliant. We do not play games with magic, demonology, or the occult. Is there any reference to any of these things in the game?

JustAnotherSimian5 karma

I feel honored to have your support! None of these things are in Patriot! Let's flip this AMA, why is that? It's an interesting catch.

CynDoS-15 karma

Have you considered getting an actual job instead of spending 3.5 years on something that will most likely fail? A complicated, expensive board game, a genre with an absolutely sated market?

JustAnotherSimian12 karma

I love this question.

I have been working full time for the last 3 and a half years to fund my passion. Even if the Kickstarter campaign isn't successful, I couldn't be more proud of the efforts achieved through these years.

All the best!