Comments: 83 • Responses: 29  • Date: 

Garbagebutt25 karma

Whats the most you've produced from this technique? Lb's per 1000w bulb?

itty5310 karma

Lb's per 1000w bulb?

This. Anytime you hear someone claim "twice the yield", this is the most important question.

I don't care what direction your plants grow in. I want to know about how it somehow overcomes mother nature and manages to squeeze more energy out of the same amount of light.

Edit - In fact, I'll just come out and say it: The claim on the website is utter bullshit. "Twice the yield". Please.

Xander_-_Crews9 karma

Correct me if I'm missing something. Couldn't the x2 per plant claim be true? Growing in a sea of green type setup you have a lot of plants xMeter2 but each plant yields less as you move down from the light to the grow medium.

It looks like to me this device is a trellis to train the plant so that all budding sights get the same light as the cola bud, which would certainly increase yield per plant but not per M2.

itty5314 karma

It could be, but that's not the claim being made. It's actual claim is "Twice the yield in half the space". So we're talking about a 4x increase per m2. Utterly impossible given the same amount of light.

Further, even your per-plant claim is flawed: Sea of green setups have a lot of plants but still only generally produce about 1lb per 1000w at best. You might squeeze out 1.2 or 1.4 by greatly increasing CO2, but not with a simple plastic cage.

Source: I did this for years. I don't any longer, but the physics and biology haven't changed.

godlessmode0 karma

This! Also, static screens are a NIGHTMARE in the case that you run into a plant that goes hermie. And are in general difficult when it comes to harvest time as well.

This technique will improve yield as it reduces light penetration issues increasing the light reaching secondary colas, but you can build your own (mobile if that matters) screen for 10$ at home depot using string and pvc (or wood, whatever).

itty533 karma

Yup. Pretty much any gimmick to 'increase yield' made out of plastic is just that: a gimmick.

I was once stupid too though. I bought a bloombox for nearly $4000. I paid $4000 for a 700w box. Ugh. So stupid. I could've easily had a 4000w setup.

Thankfully that was just a hobby that I could afford to lose on, at the time. At the time I was working for another grower with a seriously professional system. We had two flowering rooms, 15,000w each. The biggest harvest we ever did was 36 lbs of the sweetest fucking Purple Kush – legitimately, not just called that – you'd ever seen, and I worked my fucking ass off getting that yield. We got dripping resin from the buds that time around. Still brings back memories.

But I could talk all day about this shit. I'm a programmer now, just wasting time until 5p.

J-Washington-7 karma

Yes there are good products and bad products I agree. But at the risk of sounding braggadocios, this one is a winner. The early adopters will agree. :)

Lank30331 karma

"> Lb's per 1000w bulb." As someone who has worked in the industry for the past 8 years, whenever someone is unable to answer this question directly it sends up HUGE RED FLAGS. If you are a competent grower you will be able to do the math and easily answer this question and if you can't then you are willfully scamming people, or not smart enough to do the math. You claim twice the yield in half the space, so provide some numbers or tone down your claims. As it stands now, Im going to bookmark this post as an example to show new growers how NOT to get caught up in buzzwords with no backing in science or reality.

J-Washington-1 karma

I am sure you have more experience growing than me. I am first to admit I am still learning and only have 5 grows under my belt. This is the first grow using a 1000w equivalent LED fixture. Previously I used a T-5 (approx 500 watts). Hard to compare the two. Less heat now in the room, root zones are at a more ideal temp., the plants just seem happier.

In this current grow, I am growing two white widows side by side. They were grown exactly the same; lighting, nutes, temps, they even came from the same batch of seeds from the same supplier. But, they grew different, look different, different density. Experts like yourself tell me it is just a different phenotype.

They were cut a couple days ago and are drying now and I will be happy to share the dry weight with you next week. I just know in my hands, for my style, I see at least twice the yield of just letting them grow wild. We added to the website "individual results may vary" as a result of yesterday's discussion. The reality is, for most growers growing from seed, results always vary because of genotypical expression of cannabis plants.

J-Washington-6 karma

Yes some people can, I did and it's a pain. The screen allows nearly all light to penetrate and is nearly indestructible. Can be used over and over for just a few bucks per grow. EDIT: the addition of "nearly" to nearly indestructible

godlessmode1 karma

Any screen should be placed beneath the foliage ensuring that it's not blocking relevant light to begin with. A screen above the foliage is failing to train the plant and isn't beneficial.

Also it's made of plastic, so it is not indestructible...

J-Washington-4 karma

It's made from polycarbonate resin, same thing as bullet proof glass. You can fold it in half and it won't break.

godlessmode1 karma

I honestly think you should re-evaluate your marketing on this. It's not a terrible invention, but you are overstating your claims on what it does - significantly.

Promising 2x the growth in half the space for example, is simply a claim that you cannot backup. You would know this if you had more experience with plants - specifically the plants in question.

Also, and I'm really just nitpicking here, but polycarbonate resin isn't indestructible either. Which wouldn't be a big deal honestly, if you said nearly-indestructible, or if you said "incredibly durable and impact resistant". The issue is that this is yet another hyperbolic claim not unlike the 2x the growth in 1/2 the space claim.

J-Washington-11 karma

That is nitpicking, but I will still update it for further clarity. For the record, none of our official marketing material says "indestructible".

J-Washington-6 karma

You should stop by /r/microgrowery sometime and have a look at what some people have achieved using advanced training methods for growing. Producing double-yield can be done using scrogging methods. People who have been scrogging for a long time are usually not shocked by the double-yield claim, since they have a lot of experience with the process. The portability, adjustability, and size convenience of the P-SCROG is typically what veterans of growing are more excited about.

J-Washington-6 karma

That's exactly right and well documented. Google ScrOG.

itty535 karma

Is it?

Then why does your website make the claim "2x yield in half the space"?

Because it's one or the other. You cannot increase yield size that much by simple scrogging. It's not biologically or physically possible.

Please answer /u/garbagebutt's questions without dodging:

Whats the most you've produced from this technique? Lb's per 1000w bulb?

J-Washington-7 karma

I don't use bulbs. I use a 500 watt cool burning LED fixture from Illumitex (1000 watt equivalent). The screen is used to facilitate advanced techniques that's all and makes your plants portable. I like what it does for me and the market research we did with growers, dispensaries, hydro stores in 3 legal states indicates that others who use similar techniques get similar results. We perfected the product after those trips based on expert opinions. We are merely giving the market what they indicated would be liked. I have never tried to win the Cannabis Cup. We realize it is not for everybody.

J-Washington-10 karma

Doubling yield with ScrOGging is not uncommon. Some growers claim more than that. There is a lot of science behind it. The ScrOG method allows your 1000W fixture to get closer to all bud sites. Try this tutorial. Hope it answers your questions. http://www.growweedeasy.com/scrog-tutorial

aquestiononlevels5 karma

Could you tell us about your background and how/why you designed this system?

J-Washington1 karma

My background is in pharmaceuticals and orthopedic implants, and I've always been a tinkerer at heart. I designed the system because I was using a fixed ScrOG with 3 or four different strains. The fixed ScrOG made plants hard to manage. This makes them portable and individual. Easier to take care of. EDIT: added background info

noexitghetto5 karma

Hi, what are your personal favorite strains of sativa / indica? What about hybrid and mixed strains? Also, I live in Northern California, why is it so hard to find Maui Waui!?

J-Washington3 karma

White Widow sativa dominant, Critical indica for sleep. Try Maui for the Waui :)

BilboSwaginz4 karma

I've never attempted to grow marijuana myself, but I've heard its a stubborn plant to grow and really sensitive to its environment. How exactly does your scrogging system address that?

J-Washington-7 karma

My experience has been limited to just a couple strains. Environment needs to be right and consistent. The ScrOG merely helps to train the plant to grow horizontally so the bud sites can get equal light.

egoisenemy4 karma

What does the product do exactly?

J-Washington-9 karma

It increases yield and reduces the space required to grow. This is a great tutorial from a "no ad sponsored" site http://www.growweedeasy.com/scrog-tutorial The ScrOG method helps to optimize the use Advanced Techniques like Topping, Fimming, and Low Stress Training. All techniques designed to maximize yield. The portable ScrOG linked here makes your system portable and adjustable. There was a post on reddit the other night. I never thought about this. A Medical Marijuana patient said when the plant is in a large container hydro or soil, it is painful to move around and thought this is a good system for such patients. I just sit there on a stool and spin it around to trim and groom. I wish that patient had it.

gunsforthehomeless4 karma

when did you first start selling it, and where/how did you sell it?

have you ever been harassed or anything by any police organizations?

J-Washington-5 karma

Started selling it today on our website. Link is above. No harassment, we are only selling plastic parts in a kit to grow in, not plants or plant material.

Xander_-_Crews3 karma

First off, really cool. Can I ask you about your pruning procedure? I start snipping off growing tips when the plant is about 10 inches tall and the plants end up shaped like a V. It works fine for me, but I'd much rather have them looking like yours. Is that unusual shape a result of training with the plastic trellis?

J-Washington-3 karma

The idea behind growing horizontally is to try to get all the bud sites equal distance from the light source. When cannabis plants grow as they normally do like a xmas tree, the lower bud sites don't get the same light effect as the upper sites. ScrOGging forces the hormones to the plant tips equally providing equal energy to all tips of the plant. What I usually do is top the plant two times (or FiM) let it veg 12 to 14 inches tall before the screen is applied. Low Stress Training (LST) is used against the lower surface of the screen. The two plants linked here vegged WW1 = 38 days WW2 = 32 days. WW1 filled 90 of the screen before I flipped the lights to 12/12, then you allow the flowers to grow through the screen. WW2 filled about 75% of the screen and both stretched significantly in the first couple week of the flowering cycle.

Xander_-_Crews2 karma

Yes, thank you. With a large enough trellis top do you think this system could be used to grow a meter2 from just one plant?
This seems ideal for maximizing yield when the state imposes a limit on how many plants you can legally have.

J-Washington0 karma

I just wanted to make one more point here. There is a trend toward vertical farming for commercial food production as well as commercial cannabis production. Population growth, urbanization, cost per square foot of space and desire for efficiency are the drivers. The cost of space in Denver has gone through the roof as demand for cannabis cultivation space has grown. With the advent of powerful LED lighting that burns cool, growers are thinking in terms of using vertical space (several layers high). So reducing the height of the plant is critical to get more plants into the available space, ie cubic feet, cubic meters. My white widows were 29" tall from floor to top of canopy. You can stack a lot of those is a 30' tall facility. You can also move them and manage them unlike a free growing plant.

“A 90,000-square-foot facility is really 150,000 of growing space,” says Hardej. quoted from this article


J-Washington-1 karma

Good point. Sea of Green is for perpetual grows. Most states limit the amount of plants so yes increasing yield on fewer plants is important when you can only have 2 or 3 mature plants.

J-Washington0 karma

The screens for these systems are 21" square leaving room for overgrowth and growers hands. I fit 2 under a 2'x4' LED fixture. The fixture sits at about 8 inches over the top of the canopy. I raise the fixture a few inches in the last 2 weeks of flower to signal end of life/end of season...your not gonna get any pollen I tell them, you're gonna get chopped:)

BabaluluPangus3 karma

Nice tree trunks there brother!

So is it just the plastic screen that fits over any medium or is it all contained in your bucket system?

J-Washington-3 karma

Actually the system works with most round or square containers, hydroponic or organics with attachments supplied in the kit. There are photos with different containers on the website. Growers have their preferences. The screen floats above the plant at growers chosen level. Plant A may require 12 inches while plant B requires 14 inches. The system allows that. Individual plant care. Thanks for the compliment by the way.

ribenamoustache3 karma

Hi, thanks for doing this AMA , any word on any European or UK distribution?

J-Washington-2 karma

We currently accept international orders on our website, link is above. If you have questions about anything feel free to send them a message on their contact page or DM him here on reddit. :) EDIT: clearer wording

DarthDelta3 karma

Is it entirely self-contained? Like, with lights and water tanks?

J-Washington0 karma

No, it is not self contained. The system assembles around any type of round or square container and growers use their preferred lights.

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J-Washington-4 karma

Sounds good, thanks!

[deleted]2 karma


J-Washington0 karma

This is a great question, thanks! It is designed for one plant and can be used over and over. Imagine a room full that are all portable on wheels, rolling from veg to flower room. etc. Prices are on the website. Vegetation time and flower time are no different than growing like it normally grows (like a xmas tree). It just doubles the yield in about half the space it normally takes. Harvest is a breeze.

shibby30004 karma

Awesome, thanks for the reply! (Sorry I just deleted my question, I was confused at first about what exactly your system included and wanted to rephrase it. For anyone reading, I was asking about setting up a growing system for one or two plants.) Still, this looks like a super smart idea! Just for clarification, should other parts (like a reflective grow box, irrigation components, pots, etc.) be purchased separately? If so, any recommendations? Thanks again!

J-Washington-4 karma

Yes they are purchased separately and a local reliable hydro/organics store can help you with those choices. EDIT: added "reliable"

yellomango2 karma

Just starting out growing. Is there a go too place to get some info? Like from the ground up, the idiots guide per say

J-Washington-1 karma

Spacebuckets is cool for sure!

J-Washington0 karma

My personal favorite and unadulterated is http://www.growweedeasy.com/home

RubberDong1 karma

Can I grow peppers and other cool stuff too?

J-Washington0 karma

I would guess any plant that responds to training techniques would do well in this system. I have very little sun on my property. It makes it easy for me to roll the plants to a sunny spot a couple times a day. This ensures they get enough sun. I have only grown tomatoes and peppers. Both of them do well. Check out these tomato plants https://www.pinterest.com/pin/519251032016611378/ I am growing peppers in my office right now under a T-5 grow light they are drinking hand me down nutes from the cannabis plants. So basically it's just the cost of lighting to have fresh peppers in the middle of the winter. The cannabis nutes are like caviar to the peppers :)

I did not invent these training techniques. They have been used with success since ancient Roman Times. The French call this form of training "espalier" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espalier

FogFan1 karma

Why is it that if I smoke over the weekend it keeps me at ease all week? I've suffered from anxiety my entire life. I've taken different medications to decrease the anxiety, but cannabis is hands down the best medication I've ever taken.

J-Washington-7 karma

Outstanding!!!! Continue to medicate safely!! My personal opinion is the body requires cannabinoids. The body produces cannabinoids for its receptors, but when there is something off kilter, extra cannabinoids are needed to keep us in equilibrium. I think THC and CBD in cannabis helps us to keep our bodies in check. I require it daily.

Chris_TelemusTV-2 karma

How many times has this gotten into the wrong hands?

J-Washington-2 karma

To be honest, this has only been in 4 hands. But there is enough confidence to spend 100s of thousands of personal dollars to put it to market. EDIT: Never is the answer