I'm Ted Dawe, the author of Into the River, the first book to be banned in NZ for 22 years. AMA!

Age restrictions on books? Banning a book? My question is: what the fuck?

Tru.

Hi Ted. When I was 12 or so I read your book Thunder Road - pretty sure it was the first book I ever read that contained sex scenes and drug use, so yeah, thanks for that. You'll be pleased to know I turned out reasonably normal, which is unfortunate because if I had become a drug addict sex fiend I could probably blame your book and sell my story to Woman's Day or something.

Anyway, how many books did you write before getting one published?

Sounds like you've got a book in you already- Woman's Day is a good angle to take- wish I'd thought of it.

I had one unpublished one called The Third Law.

What does the ban actually entail? Could I buy it online in New Zeland? Could I bring a copy in with me if I was visiting? Do they burn the current inventory at bookstores?

It entails a $3,000 fine for anyone caught selling a copy of the book in New Zealand ($10,000 if you're a shop). Theoretically I could cop this fine even if I loaned my copy of the book to my best friend.

If they asked you to change certain things in the book and than they will unban it, would you change the things?

I wouldn't change a comma.

why was it banned?

The ban is in NZ and it was after a Christian group called Family First NZ asked for it to be banned. The book was classified R14 back in 2013 but something appears to have changed as it is now banned since early Sept.

Into the River banned: Award-winning sex and drugs teen novel off the shelves and 'Will I be burnt next?' - Into the River author Ted Dawe on book banning are 2 articles by NZ Herald on 7 Sept 2015.

Here's a legal opinion + update on the order/ban.

An Auckland Bookshop Explains Why the Into the River Ban is Dumb.

This appears to be all correct and gives some useful links.

The book was classified R14

This is so strange reading this sentence. I did not know some countries still use classification for books. I have never seen this in my country (France), it would create an uproar if politics tried to make this a thing.

I went to a bookshop on Friday. Only two books carried an R-rating: Into the River and American Psycho. Goes to show the company I keep. Vive la France!

Are there any books you believe should be banned?

A big list, starting with Twilight. :)

Edit: cheap shot from me here. I'm sure many reluctant readers were brought into the broader reading community thanks to this series. Not my cup of tea though.

Are you aware of the various protests held in NZ in relation to this ban? If not, let me know how to send you the pics etc.

Yes, I'm aware of protests that happened in libraries in Auckland, Wellington and Dunedin. My friend Emma Neale organised the one in Dunedin, and I saw Timeout Books had a window display that reached 50,000 people in 4 hours on Facebook.

Besides it being banned, how were the people who supported/opposed the book?

Did you ever receive any threats? Anything that stuck out in particular?

Edit: Followup questions

• Did this banning affect the sales of this book? Did the PR offset the losses in the country?
• Do you plan on doing anything for your next book to prevent this fiasco from happening again.
• Where were you when you found out that it was banned?
• Whats your biggest take-away from this experience? Anything you'd like to tell aspiring authors?

I've found that I have many amazing supporters, the sort of people who I never knew existed. The opposers usually begin with the words, "Shame on you Ted Dawe," at which point I stop reading.

Never any threats, but I've had some pretty unpleasant accusations. People imagine that I actively do all the things mentioned in the book.

Shame on you Ted Dawe, for not doing an AMA sooner.

I apologise. I never knew what it was. I'm old-school.

Does NZ realize the internet exists?

Tell me about this thing called 'the internet'... does it burn fossil fuels?

in a way it kind of does, servers definitely run predominately on coal energy.

Omg, would you believe it?!

The department which deals with the banned books process has suggested that anyone buying the book from overseas and bringing it into NZ(even for private use) contacts a lawyer first because they don't know how the law can be applied.

Since it's a $3,000 fine or something, easier to just wait until October to read it.

nice username!

How many hours in a week would you say you spend writing? Also, do you have any new material brewing?

I usually spend 3 hours a day (I usually write when I'm on holiday from my normal job). After 3 hours the writing tends to deteriorate.

Yes, my next book is a sequel to Into the River, and it's called Into the World.

What was the book that was banned 22 years ago? If you wrote that one too, you wield a powerful pen my friend.

It was called "How to Build a Bazooka" (you can imagine why it was banned). My motto is "the pen is mightier than the bazooka"!

Do you see this as a negative or positive thing overall? I'm only aware of the book because I saw articles about the ban, and now I want to read it very much. What I mean is that the ban has been major publicity, and subsequently opens a public dialogue on censorship, so it could be a good thing in that sense.

and.... how can I get the book! haha

It's positive in that it's now world-famous, which is unprecedented for a New Zealand Y.A. novel. It's negative because the R14 restriction keeps it out of the hands of Maori and working-class kids (who are the people whom I wrote it for in the first place).

Not from me until October 2nd! However you can get it from anywhere as long as it's outside New Zealand (Amazon probably).

Have you considered other options for the youths or marginalized groups to get access to it? For instance open access etc.

My first novel Thunder Road was the most stolen book in New Zealand. You could say they had their own way of getting access to it...

How the feck do a religious group get to ban books?

I've been pondering that question for days, but from your accent I would say that the auld sod knows something about suppression of ideas.

Are you fighting the ban in anyway? I'm not entirely sure how the process works in general actually, so any light on that would be appreciated.

Well, I have to put in a submission to the review committee but I have no confidence that they will reach a different decision because they are entirely the same group that got the book banned, and their positions are more entrenched.

Why not just submit one anyway, detailing your reasons, as a matter of record and principle. Maybe it will influence just 1 member of the board, and make it easier for the next book that is up for being banned. And it will help gather your thoughts for what you know you have done right.

I am drafting one at the moment but I am not hopeful of its ability to sway the board. Remember- I've already tried this once before.

We have a supposedly-secular-conservative-but-actually-fundamentalist-Christian group called Family First in the US, too! I bet they're all equally terrible.

Did you receive support from the general public? I hope the ban was condemned and not just ignored, or supported.

Yes, overwhelming support. People are buying the book (in Kindle form) just to express their opposition to the ban.

Have you decided to name any characters in your next book after people from Family First?

There's no Bob or Don in there- Damn! (Wish I thought of that earlier)

What do you do when you get writer's block?

Writer's block is like getting a stitch when you're running. It is temporarily incapacitating but it will pass. Usually I go to bed and when I go back to the keyboard in the morning the muse speaks.

Hi Ted, have 2 questions for you:

Do you think that review boards like the one in question should even exist? Here is South Africa we have the Film and Publication board, and while they are necessary to put ratings on movies and games and such, they're a relic of the apartheid government that existed solely to oppress discontent and the spread of "dangerous" ideology.

My second question is, why is your book banned and this one isn't?

The review board purports to be a backstop to democratic protest, while in fact it has been hijacked by a clique of appointed (as opposed to elected) lawyers with no expertise in the YA Fiction field. It has made a travesty of the whole process.

"Ass Goblins of Auschwitz" - sounds like a good read!

Is donating your book allowed? Is there a way I could buy your book outside of NZ and donate it to kids in NZ?

I don't know, but here's the thing: my friend was in Sydney last week and tried to buy Into the River on their Kindle. Amazon recognised that it was a New Zealand-bought Kindle and blocked the purchase. George Orwell is alive and well it seems.

Sub-question: If George Orwell was alive and well, would you resent readers for picking his books instead of yours?

George is one of my best mates, so I'd have to forgive him.

i am not sure what you expect Amazon to do, they are just abiding by a legal decision aren't they?

I haven't heard of too many web companies abiding by the law- next thing they'll be paying taxes.

Not allowed, that would still be "distribution".

http://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/wpg_URL/Agency-Film-and-Literature-Board-of-Review-Index#FAQ

However, what are they gonna do to you, lock you up indefinitely in some off-shore prison, and strip your citizenship?

Pray not break my pencils and put viruses in my laptop!

G'day mate.

Marmite or Vegemite?

Vegemite everytime. And make sure it's thick.

Was it good or bad for your book to be banned?

It gave me unbelievable publicity and worldwide fame, hence this AMA, but it was bad for the guys who need to find out what happens when they're a little bit older. They won't get that from Harry Potter.

Coming from a country where around 100 books or more are banned, I thought that such thing would only happens in third world country. Damn, I was wrong...

I never read any book from NZ even I live here. I will see if I can buy your book on kindle and use USA credit card or something.

Wonder if i manage to get a hard copy of the book, can I send it for you to sign?

Also, you should come back and answer more questions at the USA local time!

If you buy through my website I can send a hard copy to you after the ban is lifted (October 2nd) and of course I can add a signature/dedication. If you can't buy through my website, Amazon sells Kindle and hardcopies of the book, but I don't have access to those books so I can't sign them directly.

Regarding USA time, I'm working so I need to stay on New Zealand times so most of my answers will have to come in at 6-10pm NZST (which is 2-6am EDT). I'll try to answer questions as often as I can though.

Nevertheless, I'll keep answering questions as long as new ones keep coming.

What was your first reaction when you heard Family First were trying to get your book banned?

At first, Family First referred my book to the censor. I was shocked. NZ doesn't censor novels these days (I thought). When the censor passed it with the recommendation "suitable for older readers", I thought that was the end of it- but I was wrong. This happened again and again and finally resulted in the banning.

Where do you draw inspiration from? How did this book come about? Thanks for doing this AMA, love your work.

Source of inspiration: 1)I wish I knew and 2)everywhere. Both of these answers are correct.

After Thunder Road kids in schools plastered me with questions about the enigmatic and amoral character Devon Santos. Why did he do this? Why was he the way he was? This book attempted to answer those questions.

Thanks!

How important do you feel it is as an artist in New Zealand to use your medium to push social boundaries? Did you intend to write something polarising and gritty in a bid to ignite conversation or were you simply wanting to tell a story?

I can only answer from my own perspective- I write social realism. I have an agenda. I see things I don't like. The story is just a mode of transport to make social comments.

What got you into writing and what do you do to you polish your writing style?

I wanted to write a book for the boys who didn't read books. The boys who ended up in the newspaper for the wrong reasons. The boys headed for jail, the mental hospital, or the morgue. It was my mission.

Polishing is endless rewriting and listening to the musicality of your sentences playing inside your head.

Will you address your letter of thanks for the free publicity directly to Bob McCoskrie or to Family First as a whole? I'm wondering how to most effectively rub it in...

I will send Bob a box of chocolates- well, make that a box full of brown objects...

Are you religious? Did the banning incident change your view on religion and in what way?

I find it impossible to believe in an omniscient being- and no. Sorry.

What made you change from being a school teacher to being an author?

I've never stopped being a schoolteacher. I just took on extra work.

Hi, Kiwi here, really sorry to hear your book got banned here! I would've bought it if I heard about it prior to the 6th. As for my question, does your next book tackle any of the same subjects as Into the River does, and if so would you consider publishing it here in NZ again or just not bother with the potential hassle?

First of all, I was blindsided. Nice move, review board. I read about it in the newspaper. My next book covers more serious problems encountered by an older Devon. Of course I'll publish here, this is my country; these are my people.

Do you have any objections if there's an online petition asking for the ban to be lifted? I am a NZer and would like to see the ban lifted.

No, I think petitions are great.

A few questions:

Is the book available from iTunes or the Google equivalent?

How does it feel to be censored?

Has the publicity effected the books popularity positively or negatively?

The book is available through iTunes. I don't know about any Google equivalent.

How does it feel to be censored? It sucks.

The publicity has made it unbelievably popular.

[deleted]

Yes, 2 people have. James Rolleston as the older Devon.

Do you think this ban will in any way affect the content or how you write Into the World? What is your opinion on book banning in general? Thank you for taking the time to do this AMA, love your work!

Into the World is already completed, the publishers have been sitting on it for 2 years without progress. Book banning makes us look like a Banana Republic.

It's great fun doing this AMA. Thanks

Honestly isn't it more rewarding to be banned than to be accepted?

In the short term perhaps, but I still want my readers to be able to get their hands on it without having to break a law.

Do you think Richie McCaw is a bloody cheat at the breakdown?

What?! Are you from England?

Do you have other projects in the works? Do you think you can un-ban your book?

Yes, I'm in the process of publishing another book. My next book is a sequel to Into the River, and it's called Into the World.

I think it will be unbanned, but it will be sold with an R14 restriction. This is a 'virtual' ban because it cuts me off from some of the reading public who I had hoped to reach.

Is there a way to challenge the legitimacy of the ban altogether (as incompatible with NZ's constitution-equivalent), or are you stuck challenging the decision on its own terms (not harmful, etc.)?

That will be the next stage if I lose and it goes to the court of appeal.

Who did you vote for?

It's been a long time since I voted.

Has this experience changed your approach to writing in any way, especially regarding future projects?

No, I have a particular style and a group of characters who I am very fond of. I wouldn't relish the challenge of writing in a new genre for a new readership.

As someone who has had their book banned outright, what is your opinion on censorship and censorship laws?

I think censorship has a place but I am yet to see a novel which I consider injurious to the public good. Call me a liberal.

Are there effective ways to stop bullying in schools? I am concerned that this still happens in schools.

It does still happen in schools. Paradoxically enough, as the violence is more effectively contained, the psychological bullying increases exponentially.