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Comments: 149 • Responses: 59  • Date: 

MrsSpice17 karma

What would say are the top 2 aspects of Scientology that align with your personal belief system and the top 2 which do not align?

throwaway8642928 karma

Top 2 They "want" you to be the most able person you can be. They seem to truly want the world to be a better place. Bottom 2 It costs a lot of money, so it strikes me as cultish and scammy. It encourages special snowflake stories of past lives, and I think it makes people make shit up.

Cogitotoro12 karma

Did you not think that if you posted an AMA about Scientology the day after a hugely publicized documentary about Scientology, you should be prepared to answer questions about the documentary?

throwaway8642922 karma

Anything from that documentary would bias my answers. I am trying to provide the viewpoint of someone from the inside.

674540810 karma

Assuming you watched Going Clear last night, what was your initial response to the higher level Scientologist's descriptions of OT VIII?

throwaway864295 karma

Did not watch it, Sorry.

Edit: I have met some OT VIIIs and a lot of lower OTs (OT stands for operating thetan). They seemed like above average intelligence people that stuck with the program, didnt get anything else from them, and I haven't ever heard about Xenu)

67454089 karma

It would be worth watching. Most of the questions you'll get here (i.e. Xenu) were mentioned in the documentary.

throwaway86429-2 karma

Then I would be just as educated about Xenu as the people asking the questions and by the same source. The point I'm trying to make is that to a low level person, there is nothing to phony going on and they never hear about stuff like Xenu. That, and I don't know if Xenu is a high level thing or only a media made up thing. Edit: from what I can tell, it is made up by the media

antihexe33 karma

It's definitely not made up by the media.

All of this stuff came to public light because Scientology put it into a public court record. There's also been some high profile leaks (including ALL of the OT material) and even video from the ships where you have to take the courses.

https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology_collected_Operating_Thetan_documents

If you want to see the OT documents: http://file.wikileaks.org/file/scientology-ot-levels.pdf This includes all of the rundowns and hand written documents from LRH himself. OT 3 starts at 229. The xenu shit is incident 1 and 2.

OT 3 is the Xenu creation myth.

throwaway864296 karma

I have glossed over this stuff and come to the preliminary conclusion that L Ron was a fucking nutcase. It seems that depictions like going clear and south park are true.

That being said, I still think Scientology should be afforded the same rights other religions enjoy, assuming that they are not using tax loophole shenanigans for private citizens.

antihexe3 karma

I don't think he was a nutcase, though, I just think he was a science fiction writer making a religion. Haha.

You should really go through and read all of OT-3 and even all of the OT documents too. But OT3 is definitely the most interesting because it's so batshit out there. It's astounding that this is what you get when you get up to the OT levels.

throwaway864296 karma

He wrote so much material for scientology that its crazy. The religion consumed him in his latter years. Either he enjoyed creating a religion or he actually believed it. Either way, he seems to be a nut.

CaptainPain5 karma

he died with anti-psychotic prescription drugs in his system. arguably making him the biggest hypocrite that ever lived.

throwaway864293 karma

especially hypocritical with the church's hate of psychiatric practices.

One of the few things I've taken from scientology is a healthy fear of mind altering drugs and psychiatric hospitals.

reallivebathrobe5 karma

The documentary makes the point succinctly: if he were just a scammer, he'd have taken the money and run. Instead, he got nuttier and more paranoid.

It may have started as a scam but he clearly reeled himself in.

throwaway864292 karma

Its kinda like the three L theory. Every prophet is the lord, a liar, or a lunatic. Which one was L Ron?

Im probably going to watch this documentary after I finish with this AMA.

throwaway864295 karma

i will read over this and review my opinions

Antipusillanimity5 karma

It doesn't seem you were in the religion if the only thing you've done is 4 self-improvement courses.

Can you provide more proof or history of your involvement?

throwaway864298 karma

Records of what you have done with the church are handled at the centers. I have not done anything with the church in about 3 years, so I've cleared out most of my scientology stuff. I don't want people coming to my house and finding that out i was a scientologist because of the negative social stigma attached. These books I actually kept because they have some good information in them that actually works for self-improvement

Antipusillanimity3 karma

You call yourself a Scientologist, but actively avoid being called one in real life? Can you elaborate further on that?

throwaway864294 karma

I did my courses and auditing. They told me about how it would help me so much in life. It didn't.

I started being skeptical there. As time passed and I realized how much money my family spent on it. I dropped it. It cost alot of money and didn't do shit, so I cut it from my life.

My family on the other hand believes they have gotten a lot of "wins" out of scientology.

Antipusillanimity1 karma

How much auditing did you receive?

throwaway864293 karma

Too much. It cost a lot and did nothing. I'd estimate in the days to weeks range of total time spent.

Batmaniacle5 karma

How's the food?

throwaway8642911 karma

pretty bland, but the kool-aid is thirst quenching.

Batmaniacle4 karma

Riveting

throwaway864298 karma

there's this bitter almond taste to the kool aid that makes the whole world seem like its gonna be ok.

Batmaniacle3 karma

Where can I get some of this stuff for myself? Sounds like it's a real killer at parties.

throwaway8642910 karma

Just order some Cyanic acid and mix it in with water, sugar, and kool aid mix. This is my personal recipe.

It is to die for.

livious14 karma

I am truly curious. You have said in various comments that you suspect the church of Scientology to be a cult, in it for the money, etc. Yet you still have a favorable view of them and said you consider "going clear" to be a smear campaign, and haven't watched it.

I can totally understand that you find the people in it to be awesome people, but aren't you at all interested in seeing what the other side has to say and looking into some of the worse things the church has done? The church has had a lot of its unsavory conduct publicized.

I know from my point of view as a Christian, if it comes to light that a church has done something wrong, I will be the first to condemn it.

throwaway864294 karma

I have a fovorable viewpoint on the whole. From my view, more good has come from the actions of the individuals that make up the church than bad that has come from the entity that is the Church of Scientology. In the same way I condemn the child molestations by the catholic church and condone the charity catholics provide individually, i support the action of individual scientologists and but condemn some actions by the church.

power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

livious17 karma

The Church of Scientology has made it clear that the church IS the religion, and will sue for trademark infringement if it is practiced outside the church. The church also has an extended history of being absolutely terrible, going back to LRH.

By contrast, the bible is very clear about molestation, and the church has condemned the molestation scandal.

Individuals can be awesome, and I truly believe any should have the right to believe whatever they want. If someone wants to worship Xenu, let them. But when people in charge of the religion harass people just for speaking out against it?.

Again. The religious beliefs about scientology are irrelevant IMO. But the church of scientology has shown time and time again that it is not a religious organization, but a scam. So my question is, disregarding the beliefs of its members (which I think they have the right to have), how do you still support the church?

throwaway86429-7 karma

From my view, more good has come from the actions of the individuals that make up the church than bad that has come from the entity that is the Church of Scientology.

Without the church influencing those individual people, they might not have taken up the good actions they have.

Also, i dont support the church, thats why i no longer go. I support the actions of the individuals in the church. If you consider me favorably viewing the church as supporting the institution, you are mistaken. I view the church favorably because a majority of its members are good people.

Wikiwnt4 karma

I've read about Scientology (which was founded by a naval intelligence officer) moving people around in international waters, sending people to break into the IRS and other federal agencies in Washington, and arranging to have high level clears as both experimenters and subjects in Operation Stargate (which relayed "psychic" information to the CIA). Have you ever seen evidence that there is ongoing involvement between Scientology and any intelligence agencies?

throwaway864291 karma

What I have heard about it from inside the church is that L Ron Hubbard invented the field of Dianetics while in the cia to combat pain drug hypnosis of russian sleeper agents.

This process created "charge" which hampered though and working of the brain.

By drugging people and suggesting things to them while in a semi/un councious state, one could build sleeper spies and agents. Dianetics was used to force people to go over situations in their mind until charge was "released" and they werent spies.

CaptainPain5 karma

Scientology existed before L Ron wrote about it. He stole it.

throwaway864292 karma

Im very interested in this. Do you have a citation?

CaptainPain9 karma

http://www.scientologie.org/se_npre.htm

Hubbard was said to have come up with Scientology In 1938 by his own words. Dr. Nordenholz published Scientologie 1934. the table of contents of his book is extremely similar to the axioms of L Rons Scientology.

Table of contents: http://www.scientologie.org/e_34toc.htm

So yeah, he stole that shit.

Edit: real cover http://s69.photobucket.com/user/sadhu77/media/Scientologie1934.png.html

throwaway864292 karma

thank you!

krogonz3 karma

Is it ethical for you to share some of the stories that others have told you from their past lives? (if so, can i hear the most interesting?)

How you you feel about the fact that in some countries, Scientology is classified as a religious cult (France, Chile)? I assume that is offensive?

throwaway864297 karma

I can only remember a couple stories(All of which I assume are made up)

One is a guy saying that he used to be a disembodied spirit working on a perpetual motion device/ infinite energy generator while orbiting a star.

Another person said they used to be a nazi(no joke) and also used to be the Red Baron.

There are also a lot of shockingly similar stories about being an all powerful space sprit that was trapped in a human body. Edit: As for the cult classification, its not offensive because I'm not serious about the religion anymore. Also, I think "discovering" a religion in the 1900's that requires a large amount of money to get through is grounds for being called a cult.

krogonz2 karma

Besides the large sum of money and things like that, on a scale from 0-10, 0 being athiest/agnostic/etc and 10 being full-blown believer, where would you say you fall?

throwaway864297 karma

I was also raised christian, and I've had my experiences with the church.

Right now, I put myself as a 3 in religion in general. I think there is a creator, but he is way too frigging big to be concerned with us. We might just be some science experiment or simulation. I endeavor to be the best person possible and then find answers when I die.

FINALAVENUE2 karma

From your experience, would you refer to it as a cult?

And what was the most ridiculous thing you've witnessed amongst your fellow scientologists?

throwaway864291 karma

No. It was easy to leave and had too many practitioners for me to call it a cult. I'd categorize it with Mormonism.

The most ridiculos thing I've ever seen is this program called bull-baiting where one person tries their hardest to get another to feel any type of emotion.

There were a lot of people saying insulting things or acting crazy.

A personal favorite is when a very large burly man acted as an effeminate homosexual to get another guy to crack.

FINALAVENUE2 karma

Wow, that's terrible. People shouldn't have to experience that.

throwaway864293 karma

thats the interesting ones.

Some people go for the jugular during bull baits. Another time, one woman talked about a widow's husband and how he hated the wife for remarrying, just to get the woman to cry and show emotion.

catcatherine2 karma

Why do you think there are so many horror stories about trying to leave yet it was easy for you to leave?

throwaway864297 karma

i wasnt high profile or rich

thethinktank2 karma

Where do you think Shelley Miscavidge is?

throwaway864293 karma

Shelley Miscavidge

I have no idea. If I had to guess, she's somewhere very private either being forced to practice scientology or willfully hiding from the public to practice scientology.

GaryOster2 karma

Is your throwaway account and lack of personally identifying proof concern over being labelled a SP? Have you been PMd by an active Scientologist?

throwaway864293 karma

It is to protect(fingers crossed) me from both the church and the general populace. I have not been messaged by an active scientologist, they are few and far between in internet culture.

GaryOster2 karma

Stay anonymous. Several people including myself have received threats of lawsuits for linking court documents regarding Scientology - not that anyone can be sued for that. I would think that's an indication that they have people monitoring reddit for any mention of Scientology.

Do you feel your responses are affected by the awareness that you might be found out and labelled SP?

throwaway864293 karma

No, if the church labels me an sp, ill get on with my life because being labeled an sp means nothing to the general public.

Jefflii2 karma

Are you mad about the South Park episode?

throwaway864293 karma

a little. Most scientologists are practicing level and genuinely nice people. Everybody assumes scientologists are this cultish kidnapping group that forces people into their phony baloney religion.

Without exception, scientologists have treated me nicely and with respect, which is better than what i can say about other religions.

ShachonianX2 karma

What was one of the major causes of your declined involvement in Scientology?

throwaway864299 karma

It cost a lot of money to advance, and it started to seem like a cash cow to me.

TTTT273 karma

How are the fees presented? You have to pay more to advance to each level? What if someone doesn't have the money - is their a scholarship program or can you get a loan? Could someone try to bargain down the fee?

throwaway864295 karma

you have to pay to go thorugh courses and get auditing, and there isnt a set amount of time needed, so they could milk you forever.

To pay, you can sell your house or join sea org(military style employee force that runs scientology centers).

ElfenL1 karma

1) What do you think is the biggest misconception about Scientology?

2) Do you believe it deserves all the hate it gets?

3) How did your family originally get involved with it?

throwaway864295 karma

  1. Not everyone knows about Xenu and is hiding it from you. Most people are not aware of the creation myth and just good people that have been lured into a religion and are about to be broadsided after investing a lot of time and money into it.

  2. No, as said before, most individuals in there are good, and i think on the whole, Scientology did more good for man than it did bad.

  3. My uncle and aunt used it like counseling to save their marriage after their marriage counselour suggested it in the mid 90's. After that, it just spread.

treyphan771 karma

Have the squirrel catchers or whatever visited you yet? Just punch them in the face if/when they do! They seem like totally tools.

throwaway864293 karma

they havent gotten to me yeeeeeelkjhasdlfkjhslkdfj

reallivebathrobe1 karma

You say you left the church on good terms. Have you heard/what have you heard about people leaving the church on bad terms?

Do your friends/family still practicing Scientology know that you don't consider yourself a believer? What would they think of you speaking critically of the church?

What are your views on LGBT people and issues? What were you told about homosexuality as a Scientologist?

throwaway86429-2 karma

Havent heard any stories firsthand about people on bad terms with the church. All i've heard is from the media.

My family and friends know, and I am hyper critical of it with them. They just say,"If its not true for you, its not true." and then get on with it. They dont really care that i am not a believer, but other families might be different.

My views on the LGBT community is that sexual orientation is a choice and not a sin. However, unpopular opinion time, I don't care for trans people. They can choose to do whatever they want to their bodies, but they cant force me to use their "correct" pronouns. I identify gender by presence or absence of a y chromosome.

The church says that anybody in the LGBT group has an engram or charge and if given enough auditing, they will change.

Chel_of_the_sea3 karma

I identify gender by presence or absence of a y chromosome.

Just so you're aware, you're gonna run into some issues there even without dealing with trans folk. By that standard, here is a man who gave natural birth to another man, who looks like, has the phenotype of, and identifies as a woman.

throwaway864291 karma

I am fine with that conclusion.

reallivebathrobe1 karma

Thanks for answering.

throwaway864292 karma

sure thing. any other questions?

reallivebathrobe1 karma

What did you hear from the organization or from your family about the emphasis on celebrities? What is your take on it?

throwaway864292 karma

As a family, we didn't focus on the celebrities. As an org, celebrities were treated like trivia, "Did you know Tom Cruise is a Scientologist?"

My opinion is that the focus on celebrities comes from the mainstream media since its such a weird religion to be a part of.

reallivebathrobe1 karma

So it's your impression that the media roots out celebrity Scientologists, rather than Scientology creating celebrity spokespeople for media coverage?

throwaway864293 karma

It could go either way when phrased like that, but the Church can't make the media cover the celebrities, the ultimate choice comes to news outlets.

reallivebathrobe1 karma

Do you think it's a mischaracterization to say that Scientology selectively proselytizes and grooms celebrities for PR purposes?

Where are you from geographically, as narrowly as you're comfortable stating? (it's a throwaway, give us a city ;^))

How old are you?

throwaway864292 karma

I am not at a level where my thoughts on the celebrity matter have any weight to them. I think the media just attaches to the most famous of scientologists for day time television(like cruise or will smith). I think this because people like skrillex get barely any attention.

As for personal questions, I can let you know I am 18 y/o and within driving distance of the Celebrity Center at Nashville, TN

MG871 karma

Did you move on to any other religions after you left the Church of Scientology?

throwaway864293 karma

I studied a little bit of buddhism and still describe myself as religious. From all the religions I have had experiences with, I have kinda formed my own belief system where I just try to do my best while living and sort it all out when I'm dead.

qwerty37731 karma

What does your house look like?

throwaway864292 karma

idyllic wood house with two symmetric windows a triangle roof and a chimney on the left side.

Unload_more_comments1 karma

Regarding the book you're endorsing (since scientology is something I'm not interested) Do you really believe you could obtain "happiness" and hold on to it ?

throwaway864293 karma

The single most important thing I have drawn from scientology was from that book. To be happy, you must live ethically, be productive, and be fulfilled. If you fail on any of these fronts, you will bnot be happy. And its not society's definitions of ethical, productive, and fulfilled, if you feel that way about yourself, youll be happy

also, that was the wrong link in the bio, ima change that real quick here is real link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_to_Happiness

Unload_more_comments0 karma

Oh okay, I did read The Way of Happiness years ago, it was probably passed to me by a scientologist, now thinking about it. In my opinion, it was a very simplistic book (more of a leaflet) that was so basic in its ideas and really pointless. Just a bunch of mambo-jambo. On the Scientology subject, do you think you might had wasted time while being part of that?

throwaway864295 karma

I definitely wasted time and money on scientology. I still really like that book though.

drshipley0 karma

Couldn't you have figured that out yourself?

throwaway864294 karma

I could have figured Newton's laws of motion myself too.

It seems really simple to read, but for a person to identify what makes them happy or for an unhappy person to identify what to change to make them happy takes a lot of wisdom and insight

Scramswitch1 karma

What is your opinion of 'Operation snow white"?

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White)

throwaway86429-6 karma

Scientologists are really open about this. What has been told to me is that Hubbard's wife orchestrated the whole thing, and they kicked her out for it(being a power hungry, psychotic, scheming bitch and all).

I trust the government about as much as religions, so I don't know which side to believe, and I don't have to choose because operation snow white doesn't affect me at all.

Mateipowers1 karma

How are we being manipulated by aliens?

throwaway864290 karma

probably through world leaders and media if we are being manipulated

Bveronis1 karma

Did you see the program on HBO last night?

throwaway864292 karma

no, i dont care enough about scientology to watch a documentary on it.

ishgotreal9 karma

Not to be rude, then why post about it on Reddit?

throwaway86429-1 karma

The movie seems to be very clearly about smearing the Church. I am someone who ended terms with the church well and actually has a good opinion of it. If someone wanted the contrasting side to the movie, I would be a good person to ask.

GravyGiraffe0 karma

Who is your favorite pornstar to pump off to?

throwaway864290 karma

I use my imagination.

USCFO9 karma

So does your former religion

throwaway8642911 karma

So does yours. :)

[deleted]-5 karma

[deleted]

throwaway864295 karma

Xenu is the only one for me. (Edit: No one in Scientology has ever mentioned Xenu to me, its something I've picked up from the internet)

KingSilver0 karma

can jet fuel melt steel beams?

throwaway864291 karma

It is a documented fact that it cannot.

dnap1230 karma

Are you kidding me? (serious question)

throwaway864295 karma

No. I am being 100% serious, thus see proof.

dnap1230 karma

yeah i know, but you can't honestly think scientology is a religion right?

look, I don't want to be mean. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I don't hate anybody because of theirs, but lord xenu? theten? all that shit about how we were exiled 75 million years ago to Earth and implanted with memories of Jesus and stuff?

I think it's nice of you to put yourself out there for an AMA, but hopefully you're just trolling.

portinorb5 karma

I'm not religious at all but find it funny that people buy lock, stock into another religion that was founded by a guy who was born from a mother that never got fucked, walked on water, died and came back to life a few days later.

Contrast that with another one with spaceships and aliens, that kind of sounds more plausible even though no aliens have been found yet because at least we've got the space shuttle so we know that's possible.

Still waiting on anything from the first religion.

throwaway864291 karma

Thats why i think scientology deserves the rights afforded to other religions.

throwaway864293 karma

I have never heard of anything like exile or Xenu or any stuff like that while in the church. What I have heard of is the Thetan, which is explained as an equivalent for the idea of an immortal, all powerful soul.

I believe that it is protected by the first amendment as much as any other religion, it offers the same amount of proof as others.

It cost a lot of money to advance in, which is what turned me off from it, but other people have the right to free religion.

dnap1232 karma

I mean, at least in my religion (was raised catholic), there is no "proof" per se. it's all about faith. faith is believing without seeing.

throwaway864296 karma

In the same way that baptists consider the bible proof of god and jesus, Scientologists take the words of L Ron Hubbard and his works on dianetics/scientology as proof too.

dnap1231 karma

well, thanks for entertaining some questions. have a nice day/night

throwaway864291 karma

you too

Jerseyborn880 karma

Has the church mentioned anything about the "Going Clear" documentary in its meetings?

throwaway864295 karma

Haven't been to the church for a few years, but the normal policy is to ignore mainstream media on scientology.

The higher ups probably discussed it though.

benhaa19850 karma

What does the Kool-aid taste like?