My Family and I Have Lived Off-Grid for 7 years.

Having David Icke as your first "featured on" citation makes me 100% sure you're a lunatic.

To each his own. We also read Madame Blavatsky, Manley P Hall and Michael Tsarion, and pick one and call me crazy.

What was the hardest adjustment in moving away from civilization?

Planning food for months at a time. We can't just go shopping any time we want, since the closest grocery store (notice I didn't say "supermarket") is 50 miles away.

My family and I have really always been interested in doing something like this - for the last few years there's been an email thread going around where we send each other articles, suggestions, reviews of equipment, and pass around realty listings of land plots for consideration. We've made minor progress - stockpiling goods for emergencies, I got EMT training, my sister worked on a farm for a summer, my brother's a boy scout and a 'budding marksman', etc. But we still live relatively normal suburban lives otherwise, and sometimes I wonder if this is like an elaborate role playing game that we'll never actually go through with.

So my main question is this: how did you ultimately decide to bite the bullet? What makes a dream like this into a reality?

And then I have a few practical questions, if you have the chance:

1) You mention that you don't have a car, and I was wondering what the benefit of this is other than a gesture. It seems to me that having a car provides an important option in a crisis, even if you don't use it frivolously.

2) How does your son feel about being so far removed from his peers? Are you concerned about his ability to date/ get married/ give you grandchildren in isolation?

3) Ideally, is there something you would have built or brought that would make the experience easier/ more comfortable? I'm thinking Barbies Dream Compound here, sky's the limit.

4) Are you, at the point, fully sustainable? Or are there things you still need from 'the world'?

5) Medical emergencies aside, how would you deal with chronic illness out there? This is a real concern for me as I consider moving forward - I have Crohn's Disease, and I'm in remission which means it's not a crisis, but I still do need to take a lot of medicine daily, and follow up with doctors/ blood work with some regularity. Would your lifestyle be able to accommodate something like this? I realize getting Crohn's is unlikely, but as you guys get older, it's not unreasonable to expect some problems may arise.

6) I'd be super grateful for any other advice/wisdom!

Thanks for coming here, and best of luck!

GREAT QUESTIONS!

1) You mention that you don't have a car, and I was wondering what the benefit of this is other than a gesture. It seems to me that having a car provides an important option in a crisis, even if you don't use it frivolously. One of the local ranchers here has lots of horses, they are always in the area, we only need to take a halter and a saddle over to one of them and we have a ride. Not having a vehicle is not the best way to go but it is what we needed to do to make this possible.

2) How does your son feel about being so far removed from his peers? Are you concerned about his ability to date/ get married/ give you grandchildren in isolation? He has mixed emotions about it, but has friends in the area, a meer 15 miles away and they visit often,

3) Ideally, is there something you would have built or brought that would make the experience easier/ more comfortable? I'm thinking Barbies Dream Compound here, sky's the limit. A bigger green house, aside from that no much...

4) Are you, at the point, fully sustainable? Or are there things you still need from 'the world'? We should be at fully sustainable next growing season....

5) Medical emergencies aside, how would you deal with chronic illness out there? This is a real concern for me as I consider moving forward - I have Crohn's Disease, and I'm in remission which means it's not a crisis, but I still do need to take a lot of medicine daily, and follow up with doctors/ blood work with some regularity. Would your lifestyle be able to accommodate something like this? I realize getting Crohn's is unlikely, but as you guys get older, it's not unreasonable to expect some problems may arise.

When we moved here I weighed 300lbs, I now weigh around 175lbs, I can say this the life will get you in shape of kill you. Around this time of day I cut wood with my son who is 22yo, I'm 60. We cut wood with a two man saw 72" type and this will get you in shape quick.. When I first started using it I thought I would die, now in all honesty I must say that I love using it. Looking at the 8 cords of wood hand cut by myself and my son is very rewarding. I understand about cronic diseases my brother has Crohn's disease also. But for my self my only cronic problem is a knee replacement when I was in the army over 40 years ago..... it slows me down a bit but I refuse to let it be a hinderance.

6) I'd be super grateful for any other advice/wisdom! The biggest thing I can think of is you attitude, if you reslove your self to do it you can, however we have seen many people who are doomed to fail before they begin. For example we have met people who cannot live with out a Traders Joe's near by, and other who their spouses sabotage the attempt at every trun... That is the biggest stumbling block we have seen, spouses sabotaging the attempt. Be sure that everyone in your clan is on the same page about doing this, and I know that this is hard to say leave those who are not sold on doing the off the grid lifestyle back home.....

Feal free to contact me at [email protected] with any questions that may come up.

[deleted]

We pay our property taxes and all other taxes that we are required to do.

This being Catron County, the local government is quite non-invasive. This was once the getaway of Geronimo and his band, and Butch Cassidy and his gang, and there really isn't much required other than "live and live", or what we call here "the fence policy". That is, what you do on your side of the fence is your business.

How old are you? Who is the oldest and who is the youngest, and how did their reactions to living off the grid differ? Was this done with the intent of writing a sweet book so when you got back on the grid you could pop right into a mansion, and if not, what would you call the purpose of your book?

We, Dan & Sheila, are both 60 now. Our son in his 20s, also lives here. It was easier for us "older folks", since we have already had the experience of living in a world where there was opportunity for success. Our son understands the gift of having a place where we can live a more natural life, and depend on ourselves.

The book was written so that we could share our experiences with others, so that they might learn from the mistakes we already made, and to help us get a few "luxuries" (like some extra groceries once in a while). We would never go back to the "normal" suburban lifestyle!

What do you do when you need to make a trip in to a town to buy groceries and other supplies? Do you arrange for 3rd party transportation?

What about in medical emergencies? Do you have a plan in place for what happens if someone gets bitten by a poisonous snake, has a heart attack etc?

Yes we know people in the area who do that for us,

we are prepared for most medical emergencies.

If you have to have other people make a trip into town to buy your groceries, are you really living off the grid? Aren't you just dependent on a vehicle indirectly?

At the moment, and we don't get groceries often, maybe twice a year. Our energy footprint is microscopic - we don't feel any guilt. We know an off-grid webmaster who lives in one of the largest cities in the world.

What made you go off-grid?

We are from Back East and our goal was always to go off the grid, away from highly populated areas, and "live the good life". We worked our butts of for 20 years to get here.

You ran a business? What kind of business? Did you cash in on it?

I was a sedentary watchmaker

In saw in a different response that your 20 year old son lives with you. Being so isolated I'm assuming his potential mates are quite limited. Has this been an issue? Have you given any thought on how that will pay out?

Yes, it is an issue.

How "off the grid" can you be if you've got a website?

very, the nearest power line is over 20 miles away, no phone cell of LL and a very quiet place to be..... we have solar and use satellite internet.

Do you ever have guests, i.e. friends or relatives who stay with your for a few days or weeks at a time? If so, how do they acclimate to your lifestyle? Have you ever had anyone leave early because they just couldn't handle it?

We don't get many visitors, and certainly not our back east relatives.

You probably shouldn't mention David Icke. Just sayin'....or, did the lizard people tell you to go off-grid?

I also mentioned Lew Rockwell, does that mean I'm a diehard "survivalist"? (NO) There are things to learn from everyone. You don't have to agree with everything that anyone says to take something good from their thoughts.

We tend to agree with Michael Tsarion's assessment about Icke's "lizards", that it is a misunderstanding of the metaphore. Like everyone, David Icke has things he is wrong about, but Alex Jones has much he is wrong about, also. I remember what Bill Cooper (he was a former neighbor of mine many years ago) told me.."Everyone is right about something sometimes. The trick is to find someoine who is right about something most of the time" -- and Bill Cooper was.

Where about in new mexico? And what was the hardest luxury to let go of?

We are in Catron County. The vehicle was the hardest thing to give up, but after going on 3 years now without one, we're managing just fine.

On the average, how is the health of the fifteen people in your community? And, assuming they have been living off the grid for as long s your family (seven years), have there been any significant changes that one might attribute to this new lifestyle?

in my clan there are only 3 people and we are all very healthy. The 15 we mentioned live in the area, some are 20 miles away from here.

What do you do for fun?

Watch movies in the evening, go for walks, and some of us enjoy 4:20 PM

I am very interested in moving off grid after my children complete their high school education. What can I do now to start preparing myself and my family for such a change?

Start living now that way, by this I mean "act as if". If you want to get ready for it begin now to live like it will be when you make the move.

If you new life will mean going shopping once a month, begin now living that way now.

Once you being living that way you will find that you are better prepared for the transition.

What's your diet like? How do you cook it? What sort of things do you eat and how do you go about food prep and preservation? I imagine you daily diet can get a little bland. I'm just trying to think how I would do it if I had to give up refrigeration and the sort of stovetop/oven I'm used to.

thats a big questions, We use a Hasty Baker wood cook stove, it uses wood, it has a oven for baking bread etc. We eat mostly whole grains, beans, lentils, rice. We use torbinado (raw) sugar, sea salt. We use several items from sfherb.com...mostly their vegetable soup mix -- it contains nothing but vegetables and can be used to flavoring so many things! I even make a gravy from it that we use over noodles (home made from our eggs), mashed potatoes, etc. (by adding a bit of sage, you'll think you are eating turkey gravy!). I recently learned how to make sourdough bread from a starter I made!

We have also eaten from some of the local wild foods, such as prickly pear berries (Navajo Figs), Cholla buds, Yucca fruit.

Cooking with a wood stove turns cooking into an art form. You learn to use different kinds of wood for different heat requirements, keeping it going while you are cooking, etc.

As for preservation, we have preserved meat in a salt brine, made jerkey and preserve things like chilies in vinegar.

Our book, Surviving Survivalism (survivingsurvivalism.com) has a whole section on storage foods, their use, and lots of recipes.

Do you know the other Dan & Sheila who are kinda doing the same, in the same county as you? http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133158 http://www.placeofrefuge2012.com/p/about-us.html

Yep, we know them real well...it's us!

It appears from you site that you take visitors for a fee? Why offer this service?

Some people ask us what it's like and really want to experience it. I cut wood with a 2-man saw and pump water everyday and I'm 60 years old.

outside of necessities, what you miss the most about the urban life?

going out for a urban walk and going to a good Jewish deli

Thank you all for participating with us! Time for us to do some chores (cutting wood, pumping water), but we'll be back another time! If you have any questions in the meantime, please feel free to email us at [email protected] or [email protected] or check out our website, http://fightingfirewithwater.com.

1. What do you do about clothes? Buy or make?
2. As an average, how much land do you think you would need per person to survive?

1. an annual visit to a thrift store

2. An acre per person should work in the southwest

do you feel that your decision has negatively impacted your childrens social development? I grew up off grid for a portion of my youth, not as you are doing for a specific reason, we were just too poor for power and all the things that brings. I do remember it made life difficult for me, however this was the early 90's and things are much different now.

We havent always lived off-grid, especially when the kids were little. We did live in suburbia for a while. One of our children is happy to be here living this lifestyle, the other has chosen to go her own way. We;ve always taught our children that how their life turned out was their choice.

How did you learn about reddit?

Our son put us hip to it!

I notice that many people are looking for reasons to write you off as "loons" is that a common reaction to people learning about your living choices?

I'm very impressed/inspired by the way you guys are living, kudos.

Many people feel the need to validate their own life choices by riudiculing others'. That's unfortunate for them. Then there are the people who are just too scared to let go of the safety net to find out what they are truly capable of. That's unfortunate for them.

I have always wondered about satellite internet!! What kind of speed do you get, and and how reliable is it?? I day ream about living in a cabin chilling deep in the woods, but only if i could get my internet fix!

It's fairly reliable, unless there are heavy rain or snow clouds to the south. The upload speeds, though, are basically not fast enough to support VOIP (internet phone). It's a bit pricey, but when it's your only choice...

You talk about having an area that you live in with a number of people and your website says that there is room for others to join you. Do you own this large piece of property? What are your property boundaries like? Are there any problems with squatters?

no we don't have any squatters, 10 acres is what we own.

You mentioned there were 15 people living in your area, do they also live "off the grid"? If so is it some sort of commune set up?

Well by the area this is what we mean, the area is a great mountain ranch, it is twice the size of the state of Rhode Island. As for the others living in this area all are off the grid, there is no other choice.

So you still have to pay taxes and such as you stated; my question: How do you get income? You can't be just living off of savings.

we don't have enough income to worry about taxes. we make money off of our books, not a great deal though, you could buy our book and boost our income ..........................

I am pretty interested in it actually. Another question then: how much do you relate to the story "Into The Wild"? I imagine your drives are similar in appreciating nature in its fullest.

Yes, our real objective was harmony with the earth.

are you a prepper?

We're not "preppers", we are simply living a lifestyle we enjoy. Preppers are people who have a case of Dinty Moore Beef Stew and a case of fluoridated, BPA packaged water and think they will make it through the collapse of society. We are here so that the day TSHTF, it will just be another day to us.