IAmA Director of Montana Marijuana Documentary "Code of the West"

No question here, but hopefully you don't mind me posting a link to a White House We the People petition to pardon Chris Williams. It needs more visibility and signatures!

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/grant-full-pardon-chris-williams-man-facing-80-years-prison-legally-growing-medical-marijuana/PgtWfvFg

Thank you for posting! This petition is actually new to us. There has been a tremendous outpouring of support for Chris since the NYT video was released last week. It's heartening to see people taking up the cause.

The US' approach to marijuana is way out of step with the rest of the English speaking world. (But not too far out of line with Indonesia, Singapore, China, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia).

The urban myth is that this originated to protect the cotton farms of America's south from competition by Hemp. If that were true once it is difficult to believe that it is true now.

Can you outline the social causes of the USA's extreme position on Marijuana?

I personally believe that the prison industrial complex has a vested interested and plays a big role in keeping these draconian laws in place. It's up to US citizens to change them or vote for leaders that will.

I've heard this before, but I don't really understand it. How does the prison industry (I'm assuming that means unions, companies that supply prisons, etc) actually benefit from illegal pot? Because it means more people in prison? Or profits from seized assets?

Seized assets go to local law enforcement agency's but yes, more inmates = more $$. Plus pot is a really easy way to 're-offend' if your on probation/parole as it can stay in your system for ~30 days. While most knowledgeable street cops agree it's no worse then alcohol said cops will still use the 'I smell pot' excuse to establish probable cause.

Good points all around. Check out Eugene Jareki's new film "The House I Live In" for a powerful explanation about why we keep pouring money in the colossal failure that is the War on Drugs

Does the tobacco industry have enough financing or credulity to play a part as well?

There have been some rumors that Big Tobacco is getting ready to cash in on marijuana legalization: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/10/21/will-pot-barons-cash-in-on-legalization.html

Do you think Barrack Obama will actually make a statement on the issue of medical/recreational marijuana in his second term?

I think the referendums in CO and WA will force him to!

Ms. Cohen, how do you think the progressing decriminalization/legalization of marijuana will affect the illict Mexican drug cartels?

A lot of people think that the only way to end the "War on Drugs" is to legalize use/possession/production. I realize you may not want to take a stance on an actual prediction, but as someone who has done some research on the subject, I'd like your opinion.

I actually have a strong stance on this subject. We have a lot to learn from how alcohol prohibition empowered criminal cartels. Based on my research, I sincerely believe that ending the War on Drugs will go a long way to help decrease some of the violence associated with internatiaonl drug cartels and diminish their influence in countries like Mexico.

Thank you for writing that NYT piece. It was heartbreaking to learn about Chris Willams's situation.

What can I and other redditors do to get involved?

We’re working on that now. We’ll have a new website up in the next week or so: http://www.codeofthewestfilm.com/

You can sign up for our email newsletter there, and we're also currently running a Kickstarter campaign to update the feature-length film with these developments in Chris' story and bring it to a wider national audience: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/814560850/code-of-the-west-documentary-about-medical-marijua

People can also go to http://www.facebook.com/FreeChrisWilliams for updates. Like Rebecca mentioned, a website is in the works, but the Facebook group is where we've been updating supporters up until now.

Yep!

Thanks for doing the AMA, I enjoyed the NYTimes article. Two questions:

1. How did you originally become interested in the subject of marijuana laws?

2. What is your prediction for how the WA / CO laws will pan out with regards to their conflict with federal law?

I worked in a public defenders office in South Bronx while I was a law student. I saw lots of people going to jail who didn’t belong in jail, including many with pot-related charges.

I’m not sure how the federal govt will respond to WA and CO. They have said that the Controlled Substance Act is still in effect, but we are still waiting to hear more signals from DC.

Can you explain why the government needed an amendment for alcohol prohibition, but not marijuana prohibition?

Because there was a constitutional amendment to criminalize alcohol that needed to be repealed. No such amendment exists for marijuana - so the effort would be to remove marijuana from the list of federal controlled substances.

There's a lot of evidence that if you're trying to change someone's political opinion (e.g., that people who commit crimes should be treated with more kindness, or that drugs should be legal), appeals to reason have been shown to be ineffective at persuading others. Instead, people are persuaded by emotional factors. For example, people are far more likely to be accepting of gay people if they know someone who is gay, and Yale psychology professor Paul Bloom has suggested that American sitcoms have helped promote acceptance, too, just because seeing a gay actor on TV makes gays more human.

So my question to you is this: because appeals to rationality rarely change people's opinions on drugs and the treatment of criminals, what does work? What are the emotional factors that persuade people and change their opinions?

I think there’s a lot of truth in what you right. In my experience, one of the single largest factors that determines support is if people know a patient who’s being helped by medical marijuana. We’re at a tipping point moment in this country. For the first time, the vast majority of Americans support decriminalization and medical marijuana, and half the country supports marijuana for all adult use. There's not the shame and stigma attached to being a medical marijuana patient that there once was. As more americans have friends and family being treated with marijuana, and conversely come across pepole they care about who are caught up in criminal justice system, I think this support will gain momentum expontenttially and lead to a call for reform.

Just my opinion, but I think stories like Chris Williams. An average Montana citizen with a teenage son who owns and operates a medical marijuana grow may have to spend the rest of his life in prison because he was providing medicine to patients even though he was operating legally under state law.

I hope so!

What can we do to help this man?

Hi Rocco - see my post above. You can sign up for our email newsletter to stay in touch, or make a pledge to our Kickstarter campaign so that we can update CODE OF THE WEST and bring it to a national audience: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/814560850/code-of-the-west-documentary-about-medical-marijua

We even have plans to screen the film in Congress, so we need support to help make this story a major part of the debate over reforming federal marijuana laws. Also, the film was used by the defense attorneys for Tom Daubert, one of Chris' partners, who was able to get off on a plea bargain. We're hoping it can be helpful to Chris' case as well.

Hi all,

This has been great. Signing off for the night to attend our NYC premiere at DOC NYC http://www.docnyc.net/film/code-of-the-west/ Please stay in touch by liking us on facebook, following us on twitter, and please support us on kickstarter! www.kickstarter.com/projects/814560850/code-of-the-west-documentary-about-medical-marijua

All the best, Rebecca

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It's true that criminals profit, but the prison industrial complex profits from it as well!

Is an appeal available to Chris Williams or does this federal conviction preclude the opportunity to appeal? As a WA State resident where we just voted to legalize and a licensed medical patient, I'm watching all this with great interest. Great piece. Thanks for your good work.

Chris still has a right to appeal after his sentencing, which will be on Jan 4 I believe.

That's really good to know. I'm signing the petition linked above and will draw attention to this as best I can. I thank you again for drawing a greater audience to this injustice.

Very welcome. Thanks for helping us get the word out!

Do you smoke marijuana? Why or why not? Would you if you had a medical reason to do so?

Would you believe that you you're the first person to ever publicly ask me that question?! I'll say this - if I did break my state and federal law I would not publicly flaunt it on the internet. There may not be stigma for being a medical marijuana patient, but there is for flagrantly breaking other laws...

Have you ever seen the documentary "The Union, The business behind getting high?" It may have some references you could look into along the way.

Saw it a while ago! Good reminder to watch again. It focuses on British Columbia, right? Always interesting to have an international comparison.

The pacing of the video in that article was great! What do you think separates a good web video from good television?

I think brevity is very important on the web! You can't always squeeze all the details you want into a 7-minute video, but I'm glad to see that it has attracted attention and hope that some people are curious enough to dive deeper into this story by seeing our film CODE OF THE WEST.

Thank you for answering my question. I agree on brevity being important, but seven minutes is quite a stretch for a news story. Still you managed to keep it interesting all the way, and to pace it so that we got all the information. I am impressed.

Thanks!!

I've heard of medical marijuana dispensaries being raided in the past, but I do not remember many details other than that.

Is this a problem that has mainly popped up in Montana, or has it also shown up in any of the other states that have legalized medical marijuana?

There were nearly 30 simultaneous federal raids in Montana, while that may not sound like a lot, on a population comparison, it would be like 900 raids happening simultaneously in California. The DEA selects the leaders of the industry to take down. It has absolutely nothing to do with who is operating badly, or treating patients badly, or anything of that nature. If your establishment is seen as some kind of leader then you are targeted.

This DEFUNDs any activism in the state, because generally the biggest money makers are funding the most political action. Also, some of our own state legislators worked WITH the feds to assist them in their plans. The raids occurred on the same day as a critical vote on the medical marijuana repeal bill was happening, critically affecting how the legislators would vote, particularly since the Montana Cannabis raid was happening only a mile away.

WeedScientist speaks the truth! The whole scene of both the raids and the state legislature vote plays out in my film CODE OF THE WEST. It was a dramatic move on the feds' part, putting their "thumbs on the scale" so to speak.

Yep! Check out our film at www.codeofthewestfilm.com

States like New Mexico and Maine that have tighter regulations on medical marijuana haven’t seen much federal interference, but many other states with looser regulation have seen raids on growhouses and dispensaries.

What states that do not currently have medicinal marijuana laws (or legalized marijuana) do you think will be next to institute said laws (or legalize marijuana)?

The Illinois state legislature has a good shot at passing a medical marijuana law during this session.

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Absolutely. As I said in an earlier post, I got my start working for a public defenders office in the South Bronx, and saw a lot of minorities getting unnecessarily caught in the web of draconian drug laws. I think the War on Drugs has done a lot of harm and very little good.

Are you at all related to Congressman Steve Cohen, 9th congressional district, TN. He is staunchly opposed to the criminalization of Marijuana, and proposes the rescheduling of the plant every year. He can be seen in this video (that gained popularity last year) not taking any bs from the head of the DEA about marijuana.

Nope! Maybe he's a distant relative?! Do you have a personal connection to him? We're looking for congressmen and woman to support a Code of the West screening on the Hill next year.

When do you see this issue coming to an epic head? As in a once and for all battle, whether it be in court or behind closed doors.

I'm not very good at anticipating these things! I certainly did not anticipate that Chris Williams' growhouse would be raided by the federal government when I set out to make the film.

I am a Montanan and go to school in Bozeman. What does marijuana legalization in Colorado and Washington mean for me?

I will avoid making any jokes about marijuana tourism.

As an Australian redditor, what can I do to help? The story touched me and I want to do what I can to assist.

Thanks! We're working hard to organize more. In the meantime, please signup for our newsletter on our website www.codeofthewestfilm.com We'd also appreciate your support with our kickstarter campaign. We're trying to raise money to update the end of the film with Chris' story.

Also, scroll through the comments. There's a new link to an online petition for Chris. Folks are working on other efforts.

In your opinion, what would be the best course of action and organization for people to keep momentum going in the legalization movement?

There's a lot to celebrate right now - but still a lot of work to be done. I think it makes sense to focus efforts on changing federal laws and federal enforcement policies. The same sort of coalitions that organizers built in Colorado and Washington can be useful on the federal level as well.

Are you going to cover the raids in Helena and Bozeman (or was it Billings?)? And how can I help? I love to support anything going on here and I'd love to see it legalized.

Check out our kickstarter campaign! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/814560850/code-of-the-west-documentary-about-medical-marijua We're trying to raise support to re-edit the film and update Chris Williams case. Unfortunately, we're not focusing on raids in other cities. Just the stories of the growers at Montana Cannabis (Helena and Miles City)

She has signed off people.. . to attend the NYC event..

Back!

No questions just congratulations. This is how you build interest in a topic. You saw it was on reddit and you capitalized on it which is what a lot of people don't do. Thank you, I honestly don't consider any of the MSM a part of the news world but the NYT, Aljazeera and the New Yorker are a mainstay of my information gathering. Thank you for being a part of this community as well.

Thank you, ddrt. My team and I had to scramble to make this happen... we found out we were #2 on the reddit homepage only a few hours ago, and then figured out what reddit was a few minutes later. :)

Seems like a really great community here. I'm impressed by the depth of all the questions and so glad for this opportunity.

Given the huge divide between members of our society on the use of cannabis what impact will the bills passed in WA and CO have on the perception of cannabis? Do you think there will ever be an end to our national segregation when it comes to cannabis use?

It will be a slow process. When we abolished federal alcohol prohibition, some states decided to keep their own prohibition laws on the books. Oklahoma didn't end prohibition until the 1950's! I think this is a good case where the states can be laboratories for figuring out what laws and policies work best. It may take Utah and Wyoming a long time to follow. Or they might not follow at all. It's up to their voters.

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I'm based in the Boston area. I teach at Harvard Law School, but I've spent a lot of time in Missoula while making this film.

I just want to add that Ms. Cohen is beautiful.

;-)

Rebecca, how soon can fellow Montanans have the opportunity to vote on a bill to change the recently added new restrictions on the medical marijuana?

The new legislative session starts in January. In Montana, the state legislature meets for 90 days every two years. Montana's will have the chance the persuade their representatives to enact sensible medical marijuana legislation during the session. And in Montana (unlike many other states) - public officials are generally very accessible.

Where is ASA with all this?

They've been helpful with our outreach efforts for the Code of the West film. www.codeofthewestfilm.com

Do you have any more information about Mr. Williams' appeal strategy? As long as none of his crop ever left Montana, I think he could make a compelling case that the Federal Government does not have jurisdiction to prosecute him due to the Tenth Amendment. I honestly think if there's ever going to be any real movement on drug law reform, there's going to have to be a SCOTUS test of the Commerce clause.

Has the ACLU been involved in the case at all?

Hi Perk_i! Chris is appealing his criminal case to the 9th circuit, as well as a civil lawsuit that he filed along with 5 other Montana caregivers who were raided by the Federal government. The ACLU has not been involved in either of those cases directly, but they have been part of the promotional efforts for Code of the West, the documentary film by Rebecca Richman Cohen which features the company Chris co-owned with three other Montanans.

Here's a link to all the screenings ACLU of Montana organized: http://www.codeofthewestfilm.com/screenings They've been a great ally!

The Supreme Court has spoken on this very clearly in 2005. Under the commerce clause, the federal government has the power to criminalize the production and use of marijuana even where states approve its use for medicinal purposes. I don't suspect it will change its position anytime soon.

Change will happen at the state level. And at the federal level through pressure on Congress and the Obama administration.

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No immediate planes, but if you're interested in organizing a screening - please let us know! http://www.codeofthewestfilm.com/hostscreenings

I think more pressure needs to be put on President Obama for his flip flopping on the state vs federal law aspect of this issue. He catches no flak for the damage he's allowing. He avoids relevant questions with consistency even publicly mocked those who support legalization. Is there anything planned for your ViDoc in regards to shining public light on the way he's handling the issue?

I think many folks are standing by to see how the administration will repsond to Washington and Colorado. At this very least, Obama has a chance to change enforcement policy right now. We're hoping the public pressure is mounting. More people in Colorado voted for marijuana than for Obama. That's telling.

Do you think the debate over medical marijuana detracts from legalization efforts?

The states that will have the strongest legalization efforts are the states that have learned how to smartly regulate medical marijauna. Medical didn't seem to be a stopping point for voters in Colorado and Washington. I don't believe it will be anywhere else.

High five i have seen the doc and will watch it again how do i get an autographed copy

Contact Rebeccah on her Code of the West FB page, I'm sure she'll be happy to comply.

Sweet thank you very much so next question what is your fav kind of jelly bean

cinnamon

Do you really think the Legalization of buds in CO and WA will pass federal?

Not sure what will happen! But it's helpful that legalization passed by wide margins in those states. Marijuana received more votes than Obama in Colorado. That's going to make it politically unpopular to crackdown.

Does Chris Williams have a real chance of getting out of his 80 year sentence or is he really fucked?

If people organize, I think there's a shot at putting pressure on the US Attorney's office in Montana to offer Chris another deal. This is not over yet.

For those of you who listen to podcasts, I'll be doing an interview on the Russ Belville show on Thursday around 3:30 PST. Call in to continue this conversation! http://radicalruss.com/

you should post on /trees for some support

Thanks for the tip! I'm new to Reddit (as of today). Do people ever post links to Kickstarter campaigns, or is that off limits as a primary topic here?

We'd appreciate your support! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/814560850/code-of-the-west-documentary-about-medical-marijua This is our campaign to get Chris Williams' story out into the world!

Hey all,

Signing off for now. Thanks for the thoughtful comments.

Three cheers, Rebecca

Do you believe marijuana will become legalized for recreational use in the next ten to twenty years?

I think public opinion is moving in that direction quickly and it's only a matter of time before policymakers follow. I'd say there's a very good chance it'll happen within 20 years.

Do you find it just as ridiculous as we do that this isn't legalized yet?

I definitely agree that legalization and regulation is a smarter policy than prohibition, which has failed in many ways.

Agreed.

Another question, Do you think with the process of legalization, we will see a spike of drug testing in work places?

That's a good question - I don't know! I imagine bigger companies that can afford to do testing would consider it but kind of doubt it would become a widespread practice.

Crucial to the initiatives passing in WA and CO is the ability for individuals to grow their own plants for personal use. Since legal weed can be produced and used without growhouses like Chris Williams, how do you see federal prosecuting strategy panning out in these states? Surely federal officers won't be used to go after individuals.

I agree that there's no signal that the federal government will move to start prosecuting small home grows. But I also don't think that avoiding all federal ire is the end game. For medical marijuana patients, safe and reliable access to cannabis is important. Without having smartly regulated distribution centers, patients like those profiled in our film Code of the West www.codeofthewestfilm.com may not be able to find a friend or family member to grow for them. So I think the end goal has to be ending federal marijuana prohibition and letting states experiment with making their own regulations. Learn from their successes - and from their mistakes.

Makes sense. It is rare to have people publically speaking in an intelligent way about this very complex issue. I've seen the original thread, your movie trailer, and plan on seeing the whole film. Thanks for being an advocate!

Thank you, I really appreciate it! In addition to seeing the film, I'd encourage you to check out our partner organizations, who are doing some very intelligent and committed advocacy work - Drug Policy Alliance, Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, Americans for Safe Access, Students for Sensible Drug Policy and of course NORML.

And stay tuned for the next version of the film, which include a full update on Chris' story, on our Kickstarter page: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/814560850/code-of-the-west-documentary-about-medical-marijua

(BTW, thank you to all the Reddit readers who have contributed in the last 24 hrs - you guys are amazing!)

Wow! Thank you for the AMA. A few questions

1. Do you believe the final word on Medical Marijuana will be in the hands of the Supreme Court? Does it need to go that far?

2. Would petitioning the Department Of Justice (is that possible??) to reclassify marijuana from a schedule 1, do much to free the hands of the states? What about the Supreme Court?

3. What would you say to a detractor who claims that the medical marijuana initiative is a thin cover for legalizing recreational use and that the medical benefits have been overstated.

Thank you very much for doing this AMA! I really hope to be a part of the change to end the prohibition.

I think the final word on mmj is in the hands of the voters. The question has gone to the Supreme Court in 2005 (Gonzales v. Raich) and the SC decided that under the commerce clause, the federal government has the power to criminalize the production and use of marijuana even where states approve its use for medicinal purposes.

The way to make federal change is through congress and pressure on the White House and DOJ.

To a detractor, I would say that I've seen first hand folks who have been helped by medical marijuana when prescription drugs have failed. It's impossible to spend time with a woman like Lori Burnam and claim that her medical benefits from marijuana are overstated. (See our trailer at http://www.codeofthewestfilm.com/trailer)

Do some people abuse medical marijuana laws? Of course. Some people abuse prescription medication but that doesn't mean that we'd deny OxyCodone to those who need it. The question is - are the harms associated with marijuana (and there are real harms) greater than the harms association with its prohibition. I think the answer is a no brainer.

If marijuana were to become legal, would those charged solelyfor possession be freed? I assume dealing would encompass other racketeering crimes, but it would seem rather pointless to keep prisoners for a thing that is no longer criminal.

Legalizing marijuana does not de facto mean that everyone who was prosecuted when it was illegal will be free. But it would make sense for legislators to write that into the law.

How important is it that he was in possession of a firearm? It was my understanding that this was a major part of his sentencing. Or was this just something used by prosecutors to hurt him even more for marijuana charges?

It was indeed a major part of his sentence. But to be clear - Chris was not charged with having illegal weapons. Chris faces the charge of possessing firearms in furtherance of a drug trafficking offense. So it's the drug trafficking offense (growing and selling medical marijuana) that makes the guns illegal.

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See posts below. Chris Williams was not charged with having guns that were illegal. Chris was charged with possessing firearms in futherance of a drug trafficking offense. It's the drug trafficking offense (growing and selling medial marijuana) that makes the guns illegal.

If Chris were violating state law, he should have been prosecuted in state court - where he would have an opportunity to present a complete story.

As of the last few years, more and more support for legalization. When do you think europeans will catch on to this cash crop?

Honestly, no idea on this one. Someone else chime in?

"Ask the OP to provide proof, and upvote those who do!"

Check out our twitter feed: http://twitter.com/codewestfilm I also posted on my personal facebook page but not sure how to show the link....

?

No offense, but why did you name your movie after such a stupid/embarrassing piece of legislation?

No offense taken. Have you seen the film? http://www.codeofthewestfilm.com I think we contextualize Code of the West in an appropriate way.