Did you know you can trace America’s cultural evolution through denim? We are Anna Lee Strachan and Michael Bicks, directors of American Experience’s “Riveted: The History of Jeans” and denim expert James Sullivan. Ask us anything about the pants ...

Was there a particular era of denim or denim fad you didn't get to cover in the film but wish you did?

What's the weirdest denim look that got super popular in your opinion?

Was there a particular era of denim or denim fad you didn't get to cover in the film but wish you did?

Michael: The punk style, the idea of holes in general in jeans. Its another iteration of class and society that we didn’t get to access in the film. There are many but that was a big one!

I was also very interested in the Beats. We just didn’t have time. William Burroughs supposedly said Jack Kerouac ‘sold a trillion Levis.’

Anna Lee: Claire McCardell was also a big player in turning denim from function to fashion. Turning denim into dresses, denim as bathing suits, things you wouldn’t really think of as denim.

James: The mashup in the 70s. People think the hippies ended and disco started and there’s this canyon between them, but there's a continuum you can see through the jeans. You can go from Neil Young wearing ripped jeans to the Ramones wearing ripped jeans. Likewise from hippie to disco. You see hippies creating more upscale versions of the jeans, slicker look in the 70s. And that paved the way for the designer jeans.

What's the weirdest denim look that got super popular in your opinion?

Michael: I think ripped jeans. The notion that people are paying a fortune to have their jeans worn out. For someone my age it just boggles the mind. It used to be the rips told your story because you ripped them. Now you buy them ripped! What’s going on with that?

Anna Lee: I’ve given this a lot of thought as someone who used to be anti-holes and shredded jeans! I think ripped jeans make a lot of sense! The work ethic is so strong in America, people want to be perceived that they do stuff. I think the worn out jeans is subconscious wanting to be seen as doing stuff. Even though we don’t realize it harkens back to hard labor.

James: I agree with Michael! You have to earn it. You have to make those holes yourself.

Is it true that you almost never need to wash jeans, or was that Levi’s CEO just weird?

Is it true that you almost never need to wash jeans, or was that Levi’s CEO just weird?

James: Not “almost never” but you can definitely wear them for awhile before washing.

I was just thinking about this in the shower the other day.

What will be the back to the future hover board change that will change jeans forever?

Michael: The environment. Environmentally jeans are incredibly wasteful. They use an incredible amount of water per pair to make. Almost all jeans manufacturers are trying to “green” jeans.

Anna Lee: Water is the big thing not just for cotton but the manufacturing process of beating up the jeans. You have these farms in LA with huge machines that just add effects to jeans.

James: The next generation. Every generation for the last 5, 6, 7, generations has reimagined the classic pair of blue jeans for themselves. Whether its the shredded weathered look of the 60s, designer looks of the 70s, etc. every generation since jeans became leisurewear have figured out a way to reimagine the garment.

What is one iconic moment in popular culture that changed how we think of jeans?

Anna Lee: I still always go back to the 30s to the transition from function to fashion. It was a garment always used as a utility and then it became fun. A lot of it had to do with the obsession with the West and Cowboys that began as early as the turn of the century .

Michael: People point to “Lady Levis” both the brand and ads in Vogue as a seminal moment. But it did really reflect what was already happening.

James: A lightbulb went off in the manufacturer’s heads. We have a whole new market for these clothes.

Michael: Maybe the early 50s when they became a symbol of rebellion. Suddenly in the 50s jeans became this thing that was really rebellious and that held through the 60s, the Civil Rights Movement, and on.

James: And that idea continues to exist today. When someone pulls on jeans for something other than function, they’re looking back to that idea. “This is how I express myself.”

How much credit would you give Japan (and to some degree the UK) for the revival of Levis in the US?

Anna Lee: We didn’t get to talk about that in the film. There’s a couple books about how Japan rescued American denim. They bought up vintage jeans and looms. They sent buyers out here.

James: During the booming Japanese economy of the 80s, investors were looking for all kinds of collectible things. They created the skyrocketing interest in vintage denim. They had “pickers” coming over looking for dead stock, jeans that hadn’t been touched for 40 years. Then turned around and sold those for top dollar, $1,000, $1,500 pairs or whatever. They created what was for awhile a raging market for denim. They created a desire for replicated vintage denim looks in the 1990s and 2000s.

Michael: We talked to someone who claimed to have over 1 million dollars worth of denim in their warehouse.

James: A collector took me to his storage facility, just packed floor to ceiling with vintage denim. Way more than a million dollars worth.

Anna Lee: Denimheads these days say it's all about Japanese denim.

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Hi Beleaf, we're sorry you've been disappointed with the AMA. We focused on American culture because the name of our series is "American Experience."

The film does touch on the importance of denim globally as well as the international origins. The topic is massive and some things were always going to be left out. Part of doing things like this AMA is getting to talk about subjects we couldn't get to.

The film spends very little time talking about what jeans are *presently*. It is after all the "history" of jeans. But many of the questions we received were about present day.

The documentary is already available so there's really no need to guess about its quality. You're clearly very passionate about the topic. We think you'll find a lot to like in there. We hope you'll give it a shot, if possible!

Have you noticed denim pants declining as a "default" for young people? When do you think they peaked?

You might be interested in this answer to a similar question!

"Will they ever go out of fashion?"

Anna Lee: It’s the cockroach of fashion!

James: Yes, they’ll go out of fashion but then they’ll come back. Every 5-10 years, somebody in the fashion press declares jeans dead, that young people don’t want to wear them anymore. My own teenage/young adult sons don’t wear jeans. But in my college classes ¾ of the kids are wearing denim. It goes back to reimagining jeans for new generations. Just when you think they’re gone, they’re back.

The period I always think of is the 90s, when The Gap had its khaki ads, like “Miles Davis wore khakis,” “Jack Kerouac wore khakis.” Supposedly at the time people thought jeans were dead. People are wearing stretch pants, people are wearing khakis. Then within a year or two it seemed like every single person who wanted to be noticed was wearing Brooklyn-style skinny jeans

Anna Lee: Even during the pandemic, there were a lot of pieces about how it was the end of denim. It was going to be all sweatpants. But then jeans came right back.

What is one thing that surprised you about the history of jeans as you did your research for the film?

Michael: Exactly how much they can tell you. I’m still constantly surprised how much of the nation’s history you can learn from a pair of pants! Can you think of another object that sums up slavery, the rise of cotton, the expansion of the west, the great depression, women’s liberation, the Civil Rights Movement, hippies, baby boomers, high fashion, punk? Can you think of a single thing that sums that up?

Anna Lee: Learning about indigo, slave cloth, the influence of women and dude ranches in the 30s. Jeans as a political statement. Basically the whole film was full of surprises!

James: I wrote my book more than 15 years ago but I still get the reaction, “Huh? Really? You think there’s enough there on the subject?” There absolutely is.

Anna Lee: There’s so much more to tell than just Levi Strauss.

What’s the most comfortable pair of jeans you’ve tried on?

Anna Lee: I have a pair of denim-printed sweatpants. Otherwise, boyfriend jeans are my favorite. I wore them down so badly they had real holes I put in them myself.

Michael: I wear 501s, and one time I decided to switch to 505s, but I’m back to 501s. The same type I’ve been wearing since I was 13. But they were called “Shrink-to-fits”. You had to buy them too long and big because they shrunk. The rumor was you had to stand in hot water in a shower because they would shrink to your body.

James: I’ve tried to wear other jeans but I also go back to 501s and get a new pair every few years. The ripped ones are for the yard work; the faded ones are for the weekend; the nice dark wash ones are for the weekdays.

I wore my latest pair of raw denim 501s the day we filmed for the documentary and I wore them in a lake and then dried them. And they’re perfect fitting.

How similar are today's 501 jeans to the original jeans made in the late 1800's?

How similar are today's 501 jeans to the original jeans made in the late 1800's?

Michael: There are less rivets. There was a rivet on the crotch that they got rid of because it wasn’t comfortable. It would get hot when sitting around the fire.

Anna Lee: There weren’t two pockets yet. They had a button fly, a waist cinch, no belt loops.

James: Otherwise, they’re pretty similar. It’s pretty remarkable, with kind of minor alterations they’re constructed pretty much the same as they were making in the 1870s. Look at vintage jeans that have been pulled out of mines and sold at auction. They’re totally recognizable as the 501s that people are wearing today.

Hi!

Can you tell us something about the inventor? Info is rather sparse: born, sew, emigrated, sew, patented, sew, died.

Michael: You should Google Jacob Davis’ deposition. He lays out his whole story in a deposition for someone they were suing for patent infringement. He didn’t invent denim but he invented the rivets.

James: He invented what we think of as the classic blue jeans design, specifically the contribution of the rivets. He’s the one who brought that idea to Levi Strauss.

(Davis is featured in the film, but here’s a look at Davis’ deposition from the U.S. National Archives)

At any given moment, half the people on the planet are wearing them.

Is this true? I expect ~50% of people being asleep most of the time, and I doubt literally everyone else wears them.

Anna Lee: That statistic is based on anthropological studies done by Sophie Woodward and Daniel Miller, what they covered in their book, “Blue Jeans: The Art of the Ordinary”. They had written a manifesto about why denim was so ubiquitous, so they wanted to establish how many people were wearing jeans in any given moment.

Michael: Shout out to our fact checkers. We couldn’t put that in if we couldn’t fact check it.

Michael: They were also looking at the meaning of denim. As it becomes ubiquitous it loses meaning. You can check out the Global Denim Project for more on that.

Please settle this age old debate.

Marlon Brando (in his youth) or James Dean: Who is the greater denim icon?

It comes down to personal preference, but Marlon Brando in "The Wild One" does get a shoutout in our film. So make of that what you will!

Where do you even start with a project like this?

Michael: With the first phone call. I think James was pretty close to the first phone call. You just talk to somebody who says, “You ought to talk to somebody else,” and they say you should talk to these four other people.

Anna Lee: You keep asking who others would talk to. Once you start to recognize the names they recommend, you know you’ve closed the loop. Then you just read everything out there.

Michael: It’s really the same for every single film. You start by talking to people.

Are there any quotes about jeans from famous people that stuck out to you when you heard/read them?

One that we called out in a different answer: William Burroughs said something like “After 1957, On The Road sold a trillion levis and a million espresso coffee machines."

Two questions: 1. Will they ever go out of fashion? 2. Who pulls off denim better than Jay Leno?

Will they ever go out of fashion?

Anna Lee: It’s the cockroach of fashion!

James: Yes, they’ll go out of fashion but then they’ll come back. Every 5-10 years, somebody in the fashion press declares jeans dead, that young people don’t want to wear them anymore. My own teenage/young adult sons don’t wear jeans. But in my college classes ¾ of the kids are wearing denim. It goes back to reimagining jeans for new generations. Just when you think they’re gone, they’re back.

The period I always think of is the 90s, when The Gap had its khaki ads, like “Miles Davis wore khakis,” “Jack Kerouac wore khakis.” Supposedly at the time people thought jeans were dead. People are wearing stretch pants, people are wearing khakis. Then within a year or two it seemed like every single person who wanted to be noticed was wearing Brooklyn-style skinny jeans.

Anna Lee: Even during the pandemic, there were a lot of pieces about how it was the end of denim. It was going to be all sweatpants. But then jeans came right back.

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The film does talk about how desirable jeans were abroad, yes!

when it is supposed to air again?

the last time I saw it in the listings, it wasn't on

It will depend on your local PBS station. However, you can stream the film any time on our website or the PBS Video App: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/riveted-history-of-jeans/