We are two Carlsberg brew masters, ask us probably anything!

What's the most exotic beer you've ever tried?

Thomas

for sure a cold Carlsberg on the beach of Grenada!

I once heard that the incarnated beer tasting experts use potato chips as a palate cleanser between tastings. Is this true, and if that is the case why exactly potato chips? And any special taste?

Thomas

Plain chips with no flavour or too much salt or a thin crisp bread.

When it comes to cost, are expensive beers all that much better? What makes a premium beer "premium?"

Zoran

"Premium" is usually made with limited, unusual malts and hops. Double dose... Than you add hysterical quality control and expensive commercials and you play for it. Is it justified??? Definitely YES! You are what you drink...

This is an AMA so sorry if this might be too personal: but has alcohol affected your personal responsibility in life in anyway? Alcohol isn't exactly the best, but it's not the worst when it's consumed responsibly. I just never know how Brewers handle it when they have to taste it every day.

Zoran

Alcohol affects everybody, I did experience it personally in my family. I do not have a fear of it but have great respect. Making beer and being Brew Master does not mean tasting and drinking beer every day! Half a glass is more enough to get info if you made something good or bad.

As brew masters I would think that you're doing a lot of experiments with new flavours, ingredients and so fourth. What is the strangest, non-traditional ingredient you've added to a beer?

Zoran

The craziest thing I am planning to do is to use baculum from polar bear. But it is difficult to get it... Bears are not really willing to share.

Thomas

this must have been mussels, in our mermaid porter made by Jacobsen for the little mermaids anniversary.

Why are there not more Weizenbock's in the world?

Zoran

Must be ignorance.

As someone who wants to pursue a brewing career, do you think obtaining a brewing degree is necessary these days?

Zoran

Take my advice and go to school immediately. A lot of people can make good beer but very few can make money of it. Brewing school with help you there: logistic, supply, marketing and all other "boring" details you will learn there will help you, Trust me.

Thomas

to get into the technical arena of brewing you for sure need a degree, but you need practical experience as well. remember in the old days brewers were apprentices just like bakers etc. you need to get your hand into the brew and touch, see and smell! the reason you need a degree today is because the chemical processes going on in everything from malting - brewing - fermentation is extremly complex and to be able to produce at a constant high level you need to know what is going on.

If Carlsberg didn't exist, what would be your go-to beer and why is it Leffe?

Zoran

Big bottle...

How do you mean ?

Zoran

Here we have Leffe only in big bottles. Luckily Carlsberg now makes 3.5 liters bottle. Impressive sight...

Would you say this AMA does in fact call for a Carlsberg?

Zoran

Probably.

• How many yeast strains are you using?

• How do you develop a new yeast?

Zoran

Total yeast collection is over 10 000 yeasts, of these around 36 different production strains. To develop new yeast strain you first go to school for 25-30 years than suffer for 5 to 10 years of experiments and if you are very lucky you get your new strain. It is not rocket science but it is very difficult to cross lager yeasts.

Thanks. So do you play only with lager yeasts? No ale yeast? What do you mean by crossing? Do you blend two yeasts and expect them to merge while keeping caracteristics from both? (Like the banana ester from yeast A and the attenuation of yeast B). I've no chemical background so please, explain as if I was a 5 years old :)

Zoran

Carlsberg is GMO free company so we do not use recombinant DNA technology to make our yeasts. This means you have first have to force yeast to make babies (called spore) and than mix 2 different spores for yeast one and yeast two. If you get lucky spores will merge together and you will end up with completely new yeast. But process is long and difficult... All this was discovered at Carlsberg Laboratories in 1934! And we are using it still today. It is the most fascinating process for me but my friends get bored after few seconds. Therefore talking about beer is more interesting.

I am headed to Spain and Germany this summer. What are some great European beers that I should try?

Thomas

San Miguel in Spain is a great they actually also make a really good 0,0% ABV. in Germany go for a Holsten. go to Belgium the choice of beers here is unbelievable.

I have a few questions :)

1. How did you get into beer brewing?
2. What's it like working in a brewery?
3. Do you often drink the beer you make?

Thanks! :3

Thomas 1: When I studied bio chemestry. I got enlighten on the fantastic process and end product. 2: Great fun and fantastic products. we have more than 500 brands accross the world!! 3: one every day for my evening dinner

Thanks for doing this! I'm really into the whole brewing process. How did you guys get into the industry? And did your family take your professions seriously at first?

Thomas

My dad was very proud I can tell you and he now has a constant supply of great beer. I entered though studying biochemestry and then later master brewer

How hard would it be to brew good beer at home, without the fancy tools and equipment that companies such as Carlsberg has? How long would it take and how much would it cost?

Thomas

It's not that difficult. $250 and you are up running and you have beer in a couple of weeks. Hygiene is very important, if you get infection in your beer you can just as well bin it. Note down all you do and add (log book) as well as controlling your temperatures tight both during fermentation but also during brewing. Good luck!!

Rather than brand, what are your favorite styles?

Zoran

Stout & porter. Add some coffee and chocolate, slightly more in alcohol and you have a winner.

Thomas

style all depends on weather, occation etc. my fridge will always have 3 variants so I can choose on the day:)

I like your "new" Brew Master collection. Do you have any future plans making new IPAs?

When you took your respective degrees, did you have any idea that you would end up in the beer business?

Thomas

Great you like this series, I was part of the development!! three great beer that all go well with different foods. I simply feel in love with the process when I was taking my biochemestry degree. the process involves so many unique steps that all will contribute to the charecter of the final beer. So yes from that point in time I knew that I was hooked and brewing was the way for me.

What is your favorite dinosaur?

What is your favorite beer?

Zoran

Have T-rex and Triceraptor in my garden. Cats are quite scared of them. If I have to choose my last beer I'll go for Jacobsen Extra - organic, south German style lager with slightly more bitterness. Plus bottle is 0.75.

Can you send me some beer? :)

Zoran

Why?

Do you have a paid "beer tester" position? Is so, where do I send my application. I drink a lot beer, I'd be the perfect guy for the job I swear. :)

Zoran

Of course you will be good but there is a price to pay... No spicy food (chili & carry is out of question), no morning coffee and you cannot wash your hair that day. Tasting beer is delicate business...

Thomas Trust me, it's not always fun to taste 11:00 every morning.

Some people say that you're the most famous Danish company. Would you agree?

Zoran

If you are too old to play with LEGO, don't have problem with sugar regulation and do not care for shipping than definitely yes.

You are never too old to play with LEGO

Zoran

Respect for this! Last week kids got me Morris Mascot LEGO box. Unfortunately they also assembled it. Bast...

My dad wasn't a beer drinker and neither am i. I'm 72 years young, how can I develop a taste for the stuff?

Thomas

I do feel a bit sorry for you that you have not seen the light. go for a low hopped version of a lager style beer ice cold. then build up from there.

If there was one era of brewing throughout history that either of you could magically go to which era would it be and why?

Zoran

As yeast guy I'll to to 1883 when Emil Ch. Hansen isolated first ever pure yeast culture and named it Saccharomyces carlsbegensis. But I will probably name it after me...

Thomas

I would for sure go back to 1877 when Emil Chr. Hansen started to work at the Carlsberg Laboratory. He was the guy who isolated a single yeast and gave it out for free to the other brewers in the world. This is also why all lager yeasts today are callled Saccharomyces carlsbergensis. if we had not done this the other brewers would still have been in thier diapers.

Hey guys, will it ever be possible to create a diet version of lager ie calorie free like the soft drink companies produce but with a similar flavour and strength to lager using sweeteners instead of sugars? Please? Cheers!

Zoran

Question is not "is it possible" but why would you do drink this? If you want low calorie beer drink you can have some 0.0% beers. With non alcoholic beer we can get it down to 15 ccal but it is more non alcoholic Corona than full lager. Take a real beer (with or without alcohol) and stay away from chocolate. This is better option.

Thomas

There are diet versions on the market. but be aware alcohol also contribute to your cal. intake!

At your main brewery do you use a lauter tun, or a mash filter? I've never seen a mash filter in use before, but I am familiar with their setup.

Get into the specifics. What's the brewhouse setup at carlsberg? Batch size? Kettle setup? External or internal collandria?

Fermentation temps and regime if you can specify? I'm a big fan of euro lagers, but currently brewing at a small (30,000hL this year, new brewhouse will give is 50,000hL next year) brewery that mostly makes English ales so I don't get many chances to make a true lager. Carlsberg being kind of the originals at it, I'd love to hear more about your fermentation and lagering procedures.

Thomas

We use both lautertuns and mash filters. what to choose for sure dependes on the flexibility you need and the variation in your grists composition etc. for small breweries where great flexibility is normally needed, go for a lautertun. brew sizes varry from 10hl pilot to over 1000 hl/brew. most common today is internal boilers. sorry I can't reveal our fermentation regime...

sorry I can't reveal our fermentation regime...

Well it was worth a shot.

Maybe you can just give me some advice then. Start low (10C?) And gentle ramp the temp upwards to finish around 16C then a diacetyl rest/warm maturation before lagering? Or would you recommend keeping it at a steady lower temp the entire time before letting it come up for a diacetyl rest?

Thomas

keep the temperature contant during all the fermentation!

Hello fellow brewers, and thank you for doing this AMA!

My question is specifically for Zoran. I, too, am incredibly interested in "healthy" beer. I am a huge fan of unfiltered, unpasteurized brews. I'd like to ask you what you think of as a "healthy" beer. I have always considered high protein content and high yeast content for vitamins and minerals to be the most "healthy" type of beer (along with having a reasonably low alcohol content). Do you agree with this? What are your favorite "healthy" beers? I personally love zwickelbiers (I think Arcobrau Zwickl is proof that there is a higher being in the universe). Very impressed with all of the work done at Carlsberg labs! Thanks for lager yeast!

Zoran

That is good start. Proteins are good for you but more benefits you get from vitamins (especially B) made by yeast and polyphenols from malt. Plus you have different fibers in beer which are very healthy. In comparison wine has no proteins or fibers. Drinking unfiltered beer is good as you have a lot of yeast cells containing beta-glucans which increase your immune response. So full agreement from my side. And if you make beer with probiotic yeast you have a winner! Not to mention health benefits from hops. There is many combinations here.

Hey Thomas, are you related to the poet Frederik Paludan-Müller? Also, if you guys had total creative control over the product line, what new beer would you launch first, and how would it revolutionize the way we look at beer?

Thomas

Yes I'm related to him. Great books. I'm sorry but I can't tell you which beer I would launch as we might already be making it...;-)

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Thomas

Brewing a great IPA: ensure you get the right mashing regime in the brewhouse, an IPA needs to have body to balance the hoppyness and therefore you need a low attenuation (degree of fermentability), the right yeast, ale yeast!, bitterness of 28 BU to whatevery you like:-) and then dry hopping with your favorite top note hop e.g. Cascade... Now Get Brewing!!

an IPA needs to have body to balance the hoppyness and therefore you need a low attenuation

Interestingly, this is exactly the opposite of the prevailing sentiment regarding brewing IPA among American craft brewers. Here, top brewers generally mash their IPAs very low (~64/65ºC), minimize the use of crystal malts, and often add a simple sugar like dextrose in order to get really high attenuation and a really crisp, clean beer. Attenuation is commonly 80+%. These beers generally emphasize hop aroma and flavor, and keep perceived bitterness relatively low, so malt sweetness just gets in the way.

I agree with you partially, although it is very new to start cutting down the crystal malt structure (about freakin' time). For years it was hard to find a hoppy beer that didn't have 10% C45 or C60 which is just way too much. Also, you'll find that brewers who are adding dextrose don't seem to be dropping mash temperatures that low.

Also, although it has been the prevailing school of thought, many brewers are finding that mashing at 155 and 148 (f) aren't as significant in the body factor as many people believed. Malts aren't what they used to be and convert way different than fifteen or twenty years ago.

Thomas

Yes there is a difference on traditional english and US IPA's. this is why degree of fermentation in different.

What is your take on the notion that green bottles are not as effective ass brown bottles in preventing oxidation, or "skunking," of the beer?

Zoran

Oxidation and "light struck" skunking are tow different processes. Glass bottle regardless of color is perfect barrier for O2 unlike PET packaging. Brown color is better than green to protect against light struck but with modern production and storage this is not really issue.

Thomas

For oxidation the colour plays no role! but for lightstruck the darker the colour the better.

Why are Newcastle Brown Ales still so expensive in Denmark?

Since Carlsberg bought the brewery and Imports are much more readily available these days, I imagine it's much cheaper to import them as well. well I guess it's not so much a question and more of a complaint, I want cheap Newkies damnit!

Thomas Sorry but NBA was not part of the deal when we bought S&N

I'm sure the Danish have slightly different schooling when it comes to studying to be a brew master. Did you go to school at a university and that is a specific degree?

I'm currently doing siebel/world brewing academy courses, and also studying to write my Institute of Brewers and Distillers diplomas. Would those be comparable?

Here in north america, a lot of "brew masters" just happen to be the guy in charge. They could have no formal education about it. Is brew master a more formalized title in Europe?

Thomas to be a Master Brewer (actually called Diploma Master Brewer) you would need a university degee first. the educations can be compared although there is some difference on the set up. it's right the title brew master is not protected and that's why it's called diploma master brewer.

Why would you reveal your real names? Aren't you ashamed at how rubbish Carlsberg is? Well, it's better than Bud but so is tap water.

Thomas

don't think you have ever tried a Carlsberg have you??

I have, many times, it's everywhere. Is it reconstituted from a syrup or something (like xxxx in Australia, it has a similar quality). Anyway, I don't mean to be mean it's just not a very nice beer and I've been drinking beer for a quarter of a century. It's the same as all the mass produced beers that were ubiquitous through the 80s and 90s. The SAB Millers type products and quite frankly I tolerate hipsters because craft beer is so much better. I know from speaking with bar managers that Carlsberg is buying heaps of microbreweries which is good because here in the UK it's only the free houses that can sell what they want and if it weren't for Carlsberg doing that the choice would be dismal. Oh yes, and the recent ads we've had here, comparing Stella to Import, is like comparing Stalin to Hitler.

Just saying. Not if you could get Carlsberg to taste like Hop Head or Five Points Pale Ale then I'd be impressed.

Thomas

Well I worked as a headbrewer at Carlsberg UK for 5 years (2007-2012), during this time the Carlsberg was great! no just kidding. Carlsberg in UK is for sure ALL MALT so no syrup sugars or anything else. The taste of all lagers in UK is though not as full and round as other places in the world and this is really a pitty. If you want something very good then go for a lawnmower also made by Carlsberg, this one will blow you away!!

Zoran

Ouch... Proud to be part of it... And with real name. Check Jacobsen if you have a chance. That is also Carlsberg.