I worked at McDonald's from 1970 to 1973 when hamburgers were 20 cents and only white males were hired. AMA!

Why did you quit? I'm sure you could have been assistant to the assistant regional manager by now.

I actually considered that, but my family thought I was stark raving mad. Maybe I was. I got an engineering degree and had a successful software career, so I don't regret quitting to spend more time on studying.

successful software career

and you quit a steady job for that...

We all do crazy things when we're young.

You walk into McDonald's today. What strikes you the most about the way the establishment is run and the clientele?

Cleanliness. This was hammered into us when I worked there. If the parking lot and dining room are clean, it's probably a well-run store.

I'm pretty good at telling in just a few seconds whether the food is going to be good or not, although sometimes I'm wrong. My local McDonald's is in a poor area and I had a bad feeling the first time I saw it from the outside, but the service is pretty good and the fries are always hot.

I worked at the last of the "old school" McDonald's in my town. It did not have electronic registers, like all the other ones in town. It was also the first one to close in my town. We did orders by hand as well. For me, I memorized prices of common orders, say Big Mac, large fry, large drink. At first I used a calculator. Soon, I could add without it. There are a lot of things back then that are different now. Firstly, we had 5 cash registers. And they were ALL open during lunch, and usually lines of people at each register, 5 or more deep. When that store closed, I transferred to a freeway store. It had 13 cash registers, and during holidays, it was bedlam. 20 people deep in each line, ALL DAY LONG. And we weren't even the busiest at the time. That honor went to Barstow, CA, and Lyon's Ave near Magic Mountain. I worked for corporate stores, started in 1981. You could smoke in the stores then. We did so in the back room, the office, even the lobby. The whole idea back then was to get people in and out FAST. You ordered, and before you even payed, your order was on your tray or in your bag. Back then, Drive Thru was evolving. At the first store I worked at, DT sales were barely 20% of total sales. By the time I was done 7 years later, and being promoted up to first asst, I worked at stores where DT sales were close to 60%. These days, I bet its higher than that. Back in my day, when you called shots, you also backed up the registers. So, you were giving the grill people instructions, wrapping the food and putting it in the bin, and also grabbing food, drinks, and fries for the order. I remember, it was kind of a ballet, you used to literally slide across the floor. It was called hustle, and management loved that. Today, there is no hustle. It doesn't exist. You ALWAYS have to wait for your food. I remember when Taco Bell was getting bigger, and our Ops Manager at the time was worried about them, and rightfully so, because they could serve food fast. But now they suck, too. But one thing I do remember is McDonald's was organized. They had their system down by '81. Oh sure, there were bad days, but in general, the way the business was run, there was a procedure for everything. Back then, I was proud to work there. Then, things started going downhill. New managers with new ideas came. And when Ray Kroc died, that was it. Kroc would roll over in his grave if he knew they were holding patties in a "warmer". That's the WHOLE reason the burgers are so nasty now. They were much better coming right off the grill. Also, clamshells. I was there when they first started experimenting with them. They were actually attached to the existing 4' grills. And the first things we used them for were McRibs, because those things took like 20 minutes to cook in the beginning....oh, I could go on and on. Thanks for bringing back the memories.

Wow, you have really conveyed what it was like. The memorizing, the hustle, the long lines, the smoking (I had forgotten about that), and the managers backing up the others. I enjoyed all that more than the slow times when you were expected to always keep cleaning but usually loafed.

The drive through was an enormous change to fast food. The concept hadn't even been thought of at that time.

You're right, the time a customer waits doesn't have the priority it used to.

You're still expected to clean during slow times in fast food. It sucks when you've already cleaned the entire store. Think Dairy Queen in the winter slow.

There was a difference between day shift and night shift. On day shift things went by the book: always be cleaning, don't turn your back to the customer, don't lean on the counter. Night shift was much more relaxed. On my first night shift, the assistant manager told me I was too uptight and actually ordered me to lean against the counter. I liked night shift much better.

I'm a former employee myself and I have to say that the idea of 'hustle' is still alive and well, it's just very dependent on location. The owner of my store had two locations. The one I worked at was amazing. Spotless and fast. The GM used to come out of the office after each meal and read us our drive through times for each hour, ask for reasons why some were less than others, offer suggestions to improve, etc.

The managers were always posted in the runner spot just as you describe. They bagged for both counter and drive through, communicated with the kitchen, handled discounts and complaints, fixed things, etc.

We took a lot of pride in keeping that place running well. In contrast, the other location was newer but filthy, slow and filled with bad attitude. It came down to how the employees felt about their job, which was directly influenced by how their managers looked at running the place.

I'm glad to hear about the first place. There are plenty of well-run McDonald's and when it's very good I make a point to tell the manager so. You wouldn't believe how rarely they hear compliments.

There is also the other kind. The last one I went to was ok, but the salt in the little packets had clumped up. I tried four different ones. I informed the clerk because if I ran the store I would want to know. She thanked me but she never said anything to a manager.

Wow - you are the PERFECT person to ask this to...

Okay, so McDonald's closed like 900 stores about 60 days ago. They are losing money, or at least having a HUGE decline in sales. What do you think is going on?

Is it the food quality? The service? What has happened? Have they cut so many corners that everything is suffering overall?

I used to like McDonald's. Now I think the food is just barely edible. There are SO_MANY other great choices out there that will offer a LOT more for my money that I would rather give my business to.

And thanks for doing this AMA. You have a VERY unique perspective on this.

Your penultimate paragraph says it. Back then, McDonalds was really the only fast food place out there that had name recognition, pretty good food, and low prices. Today they suffer from being too establishment for younger people. Interestingly, back then they mostly appealed to the young adults (pre-Ronald) and were pushing hard to be recognized by the public as a "restaurant".

What McDonald's menu item from when you work should be put back? I miss those deep fried apple pies.

We didn't have pies when I started but I remember when we got them. This was McDonalds' first attempt at a dessert. We had both apple and cherry and the cherry ones were the best thing on the menu.

For those who haven't had one, they are like hot pockets with cherry or apple filling.

That was not Cherry. It was red napalm.

It was tasty napalm!

Hey! I was there too in '73. The very first thing a new guy would do was box pies. From there he could watch the grill and learn. One guy, on his first day, dropped a pie in the vat. He instinctively reached in a pulled it out. Three hundred and sixty degree oil. It was also his last day.

Ouch. I forgot about boxing pies. We had to wait to let the excess oil drain off them. Customers who were waiting couldn't understand why the pies just sat there while they waited.

When I used to work close at McDonalds in high school we would sometimes deep fry the pies still...it was super against the rules so we'd only do it right before we shut down for the night.

They were still delicious.

Ours were always deep fried. We cooked them in the fry vat in a special holder that could take 10 or 12 pies. Didn't want to get the fish taste on them. Once they were cooked, they were great hot or cold from the fridge.

Were you able to support yourself using McDonalds wages in the 70s, or were you using other income to supplement?

I was in high school and college, so I wasn't supporting myself. I made $1.45 per hour at first. Later the minimum wage was upped to $1.60 and later still I got a raise to $1.75. It was very unusual for anyone to make more than minimum wage. I felt like I was rolling in money!

Thanks for the reply! $1.75 in 1973 is about $9.75 in today's wages, so you were probably making more than some people make working there today.

So, that minimum wage of $1.45 would buy you 7 hamburgers an hour. Now, at a wage of $8 you could get 8 dollar burgers. I don't know if the 20 cent burger was from the value menu.

Sorry, there was no value meal back then. That was the regular price.

Where the hamburgers at that time tastier than nowadays? What about the different Burgers, variety?

I think they were better then, but that may just be an old man talking. The meat was fresh when I started but they switched to frozen patties while I was there. I don't care what corporate said, fresh definitely tasted better.

Also, we grilled the meat instead of whatever method they use now. It was less consistent, but when done right, grilled is better.

Also, the buns were better then. We toasted each one in the bun toaster and that combination of carmelization and warmth was great. I believe they steam them now.

Still toasted buns, except for filets and such. Those are steamed.

Ok, that's how it used to be. I guess my tastes or memory have changed.

Buns are still toasted in a vertical toaster though some menu items such as the Filet-O-Fish are steamed now.

I should have been clearer. The filet of fish buns were always steamed.

For reasons that are lost in the dim recesses of time, we really hated it when a customer ordered a filet of fish with extra tartar sauce. We didn't like any special orders because it slowed us down, but extra tartar sauce really yanked our chain. The steamed buns were so soft we could hollow them out by pressing with our knuckles and fill them with five shots of tartar sauce. When the customer bit into it, sauce would squirt out everywhere. This passed for teenaged humor at the time.

The variety is definitely better today. We just had hamburgers, cheeseburgers, double hamburgers (poorest seller), double cheeseburgers, Big Mac, and filet of fish.

What was your favorite and least favorite part of the job?

The last summer I worked there, I was allowed to "call the shots". Today, orders are input into the register and appear for the back room guys to cook. It was more complicated back then. Orders were taken on paper, unless they were short enough to remember. I earned a raise (not many were given) by being able to memorize orders up to five dollars, let's say five people, while adding up the total and applying tax in my head.

The order taker would take what he needed from pre-cooked sandwiches in the bin, and the shot caller, almost always a manager, watched the levels of of all of the different sandwiches and ordered new ones, a dozen at a time (six for Big Macs, ten for the later Quarter Pounders). It was a real art to order just barely the number that were needed without wasting any, especially when it was busy, because sandwiches that didn't sell were thrown out after ten minutes. Usually.

He also had to keep an eye on the fries and shakes unless we were busy and had people dedicated to them.

I worked with plenty of managers who couldn't call the shots well, and sometimes when working the grill I would deliberately mishear him and give him either more or less than he had called for. It was an art and I was good at it.

Least favorite was cleaning the bathrooms. 1970s Southern bathrooms don't even bear thinking about.

memorize orders up to five dollars, let's say five people, while adding up the total and applying tax in my head.

The McDonalds I go to are staffed by people who I dont think can read let alone calculate tax in their head.

The last time I went to my local one, I ordered something worth like $4.48 and gave the guy a $20 bill. He handed me back $5.52 and I told him he was short $10.

This required him to get the assistant manager to correct this issue, not because he couldn't open up the drawer, but because he straight up couldn't fucking add to twenty. It honestly blew my mind.

He probably just thought you handed him a $10... Yea it sucks but this happens very rarely and people make mistakes. He had to get the manager, not to add to 20 for him, but to count his drawer to tell if he was in fact over $10. I've worked in fast food and $10 is way more than enough to get someone written up or even fired.

That happened to me once. We were taught to put the amount tendered on the ledge above the drawer, count out the change (it wasn't calculated for us), and then put the bill in the drawer. I don't know why I didn't do it that time but I gave him change for a ten and he said he gave me a twenty. I wasn't sure so I called the manager and he counted my drawer. The customer was right. I apologized but he was pissed anyway.

It was especially embarrassing because I was so proud of always getting my drawer exactly right.

Everyone is asking about the burgers... but what about the fries? Did you fry them from scratch? Or even then did you get the pre-frozen bags?

Also what innovation when you were there really sped up productivity?

During the time I worked, we had frozen fries. They came in boxes about the size of a shoebox that were kept in the freezer until needed. Whenever we needed more fries, the fry man (if we had one), or the manager (if he was on the floor), or anybody else would pour some into a basket and "drop" them in the vat. If we were busy, we could pre-fill baskets and hang them on the fry rack. During Spring Break I remember the whole rack being full, perhaps 30 baskets.

The frozen fries were raw potatoes. We cooked them completely. 340 degrees for two minutes and ... um ... ten(?) seconds.

At the time old timers, customers or employees, would be happy to complain how the old fresh fries were superior to the new frozen fries. I couldn't say, but I was regaled with stories about the Good Old Days when potatoes were peeled and sliced by hand. I'm glad I missed it.

Other than menu items, the switch to frozen meat, and who we hired, I can't think of anything that changed significantly while I was there.

Are the burgers the same size they used to be? I swear the Big Mac is smaller.

I'm pretty sure they are the same size: 1.6 ounces per patty. It's just that many places sell larger hamburgers now. Back then, the BigMac was considered a large sandwich, although when I started, it had been eclipsed by the Whopper.

Fun Fact: we weren't allowed to call them "burgers"; they were always "hamburgers" or "cheeseburgers ".

The whole Quarter Pounder thing was overblown. McDonald's was sued because the Quarter Pounder meat no longer weighed a quarter pound after it was cooked. People can't seem to understand that is how every meat producer works. It's like buying two by fours. Everybody knows they're not actually two inches by four inches.

Great! Thanks for the answer. I guess it's one of those "It didn't get smaller, you got bigger" sort of things.

There's no doubt in my mind. At the time, a 1/10 pound hamburger, 4 ounces of fries, and a 10 ounce drink (no refills!) was considered a treat.

Was "only white males hired" official policy or just how it worked out?

The short answer is that I don't know. I was just an employee.

The long answer is that "everybody knew" not to hire blacks or women. This is the South in 1970. Clearly, somebody made a decision because several black employees started working there at about the same time.

I always found it curious that Old South management countenanced black employees before they did female employees.

Edit: added "several"

I worked at McDonald's in the same era, and we hired black men. This was in California. They also used to let us eat all the hamburgers we wanted for free. That rule changed when they found out how much I could eat though.

Californians have always been a little more progressive than the South. Good on ya.

Our policy was all the soda you could drink, as long as you used your own cup. They inventoried each cup. Food had to be paid for.

However, if you worked a full shift and were therefore entitled to a break, most managers would look the other way if you cooked yourself a sandwich and swiped some fries (but don't use their fries bags because they inventory them too). Curiously, they would not allow us to take a pre-cooked sandwich, but you could make your own. This put the grill men in a position of power over the otherwise higher status front counter people, because the latter could only get a free dinner by convincing a grill man to make it.

What do you order if you walk into a McDonald's today?

Do you have a favorite fast food place other than McDonald's?

Double cheeseburger.

That's easy. Steak n Shake. It's a meal. In sight it must be right. Takhomasak. They finally opened one 45 minutes away and I'm in heaven.

Interesting AMA, thank you for doing this. :)

What are three relatively small/obscure things that have changed since the 70s at McDonalds that you've noticed?

1. The dining areas today are ... well ... dining areas. The first McDonald's I worked at was originally built as walk up only, but with parking. By the time I started, it had been enclosed to include a putative dining area with maybe twelve ice cream parlor style tables. Booths? Yeah, right! The company advertised hard in the 1970s to be accepted as a restaurant instead of just a burger joint.

2. More employees. McDonald's used to schedule more help than they needed and sent them home early if business was slow. I remember lots of times with just two employees and the assistant manager, but nowadays there is always at least a half dozen people working, even on off hours. Caveat: I can't speak for how many work late at night.

3. McDonald's is everywhere now. My store was number 600 and something out of maybe 1,500 or so. Now there are 32,000.

Did you ever spit in someone's food?

Nope. Never. And I never saw anybody else do it either.

What was/is your view on how McDonalds only hired white men?

At the time I confess I never even noticed. This was in the South. It never crossed my mind to even question the policy until we hired the first black guy.

Looking back, this change had no effect that I can remember. What I do recall is how efficiency dropped noticeably when we started hiring females. I even noticed back then at the same time I was contributing to the problem!

Remember, almost all of the staff were teenagers.

A bunch of sexually frustrated teens surrounded by the smell of hot, searing meat and oil all day probably humidifies the mind a bit, yeah?

Nothing gets me going like the smell of frying oil permeating every fiber of your clothing.

For a grill man, the grease smell from cooking the meat was the worst, although the reconstituted onions were nasty too.

Ok, nobody else has asked so i have to. What was your favorite toy they had then and do you still have any of them?

I ask because the toys were SO MUCH better in the 70's & 80's. I actually have a Ronald McDonald doll from '72 that you put the whistle in his mouth & squeeze his stomach to blow the whistle. Its about 16"-18" tall. It was my favorite toy growing up.

We didn't have toys. McDonald's advertised to adults back then. It wasn't until Ronald that they switched to children.

Did McDonalds sell tea?

Not when I was there, even though it was in the South.

Iirc, the entire menu was hamburgers, cheeseburgers, double hamburgers, double cheeseburgers, Big Mac (still kind of new), filet of fish (never, ever a "fish sandwich"), one size of fries, milkshakes (chocolate, vanilla and strawberry), coffee, milk, some kind of uncarbonated orange soda, and large and medium (never "small"!) Coca Cola or root beer).

Did you ever work breakfast? I bought two egg rings on eBay so I can make my own EggMcMuffins at home today.

They introduced the Egg McMuffin when I worked there. The other breakfast items came later. The McMuffin was a pain because we used fresh eggs and we were always losing the rings, which were high quality, heavy things that would not tip over. Lots of guys would scramble an egg for themselves. You could also get a plain English muffin.

Are you 234 years old now?

I only look that old. I blame it on global warming.

Did McDonald's have McNuggets back then? What are they made of?

We didn't have them. I've never eaten them.

McDonald's is actually more strict about what goes into their food than many places. They were just as concerned back then because they advertised to adults, not children. They liked to stress the "all-beef patties".

How far away do you think we are from having fully automated McDonald's everywhere?

Hopefully it won't happen until some time after my death. Have you ever eaten at an Automat?

Have you ever eaten at an Automat?

yes, Febo in the Netherlands,, but there are still humans behind the coin operated windows.... even the automats in the US (pre-1970s) still had humans making the food.

You're right. I was trying to be a smart ass but was just an ass instead.

What was your favourite menu item then and what is it now?

Although I really like the cherry pies, when I want to eat, I get the double cheeseburger catsup only ("or cowboy", as we called them, although we hated "grills" or special orders), regular fries, and a Coke. This hasn't changed.

Edit: autocorrect

Do you think fast food workers should get paid 15.00 per hour?

I don't have a particular rate in mind, but the current minimum wage is clearly insufficient.

Did people prank the drive-thru back then like they do today? If so what were some of the things done?

At first I thought this was a joke question! We didn't have a drive through. Google tells me that McDonald's first drive through was in 1975, but I never saw one until about 1981. At that time, I thought it was a novelty that wouldn't work out because I believed people wanted their food quickly and a drive through could never keep up when things were busy. Yet another thing I predicted wrong.

Not only was there no drive through, but our store had just been converted from a walk up, eat outside store. They kept the arches and the fishbowl design that allowed the customers to watch the food being made. I always thought that was a good idea because it kept us from messing with the food. I've been back and today it looks like every other McDonald's.

here's a question I've always wanted to check:

was 20c worth more back then or were the hamburgers simply that cheap?

Based on the CPI, 20 cents is worth $1.22 today so I suppose a dollar hamburger is about right.

The store I worked at was next door to a high school and drew most of its employees from there, but I also worked with people who made their living working there. The assistant managers were vocal about the fact that they earned per hour about what the rest of us did. They were on salary but worked 50 hour weeks.

The current US minimum wage is ridiculously low.

What is that you're wearing in your photo? Was that the standard uniform? Looks really informal.

We wore our own black pants and shoes and a shirt you had to buy from the company. It was a fake dickie pullover, white with powder blue "undershirt". We had to wear those silly paper hats.

We also had to keep our hair short. Mine wasn't, so I'm wearing a wig in the photo. At first I took a lot of abuse for it but towards the end at least half a dozen guys were using them.

When we started hiring women, teenaged girls mostly, they wore a powder blue uniform dress. It was a constant battle for the managers to keep the hemlines at a reasonable length since the style at the time was mid-thigh. I can still remember watching one girl take over a minute before she finally managed to sit down without revealing anything. Those were the days!

Were shakes more prevalent than soda at the time?

No, shakes always sold way worse than fountain drinks. After all, they were outrageously priced at thirty cents. The official ratio was three chocolate to two vanilla to one strawberry, but when I was in charge I made more chocolates and fewer strawberries because that's what sold.

Shakes were supposed to be thrown out after 20 minutes if they didn't sell, but that rule was routinely ignored. They get pretty sloppy looking after about an hour.

Did you have the "over XYZ burgers sold" number on the sign? Do remember what was the number was at back then and how often did your store change it?

Yes. The sign was 3 billion when I started and was changed to 4, then 5, then 6 while I worked there. It took three years to double.

When the 6 sign arrived, it included a note to save it for when it could be used as a 9.

Fwiw, I remember the first McDonald's I ever saw as a small child. The sign read 700,000 and was in lights so it could be changed easier.

This is a pretty cool AMA. Were there any pranks or teenage shenanigans of some sort that you were involved in/saw at the store you worked at? (Besides the excess tartar sauce on the Fish Filets).

No, we behaved like little angels.

When you take a dozen hamburgers off the grill, you take the tray of dressed buns and set it so one corner rests on the grill. When you lift the tray of completed hamburgers to the pass through shelf, you call out "Hams up!" or "Macs up!" or "Quarters up!" or "Grills up" and spin the tray so the hot corner faces you. If there are already trays up there, you don't have room to spin them so you add "Hot tray!".

It was considered great fun among the pimpled set to skip the spinning step. If you had a problem with the manager who was going to have to wrap the things, you also set the tray on the grill so the entire end got hot.

One customer asked for his burger "very, very rare". I don't think it spent more than five seconds on the grill. He didn't complain.

Another guy asked for lots of onions. I put a Big Mac collar (do they still use those?) around the bun and filled it two inches deep with onions. He came back to tell us he enjoyed both the joke and the onions.

When we gave them the extra tartar sauce, we always served it with a straw because they were going to need one to suck all that sauce out before they could eat the filet of fish.

I never did it, but one guy would save the cardboard boxes that cups came in and stick them back in the pile of full boxes. Since the manager had to count them every night, his count would be off by however many hundred cups were in a box and his numbers wouldn't total. A good manager would figure it out pretty quickly because they had a good feel for how many drinks were sold in a day but the lesser souls might recount for an hour.

After we started hiring women and I was calling the shots, one of my duties was to keep an eye on the dining room. When it needed mopping, I would send a cute petite girl to do it because they really struggled with the heavy mop bucket in those short dresses they wore. Hey, I was a teenager!

One day shortly after I started, the manager saw that it was about to rain and told me to close his car windows. I did so and got back inside just before a torrential Florida downpour started. When I got back he was in a conversation and when I tried to talk to him he told me loudly not to interrupt him. I waited and finally he turned and asked what I wanted. I said, "Which car is yours?" There was three seconds of soaked upholstery in his eyes before he caught on.

Sorry for being THAT guy, but how is that picture proof..?

Fair question. When I asked the mod what proof they required, he asked if I had a photo of me at work.

Were you ever robbed?

I like the idea of only hiring white males. Need to bring that back.

I'm not sure what you mean by your second remark. They hired black males first, and I never noticed any difference in service or quality. When they started hiring women, quality fell off because we spent so much time talking and flirting with them. Still, they're never going back and shouldn't, in my opinion. It was a shortsighted policy.

Yes, twice.

The first time was a young man with a semiautomatic pistol and a T-shirt over his head with two holes cut in it. He was very nervous and ordered the assistant manager to open the safe. The safe was balky so it took multiple tries. I worried the whole time he would shoot us all. Most of the money was still in the cash registers so he made off with a pile of ones. He was never caught, that I know of.

The second time was two men with stockings over their heads. They were very professional and I wasn't scared at all. It was the assistant manager's first day on the job and when they asked him where the money was, he stuttered, so they asked me and I told them it was in the registers. I got it for them, but this time most of the money was sitting in a deposit envelope on a desk so once again they only got away with small bills. They locked us in the cooler but the inside handle overrides the lock for that very reason. I always appreciated that they called the police an hour later to make sure we didn't die. I heard they were later caught.