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Do you foresee a time when a person could rental a digital copy of a book from anywhere? Right now my local library has this capability across all categories (non-fiction, history, fiction, business, etc), but I can't create an account and rent digital books from libraries in other cities.

I would love the ability to re-read some of the books from my university and grad-school days, but don't have the ability to do that.

Thanks!

(RA) I guess it depends on what you mean by "rent." If you mean "pay money for temporary access," then you pretty much have that capability now -- it's not universal, but there are lots of publishers and third-party services that will happily take your money and give you access to books that are available online. If by "rent" you mean "borrow without a fee" (the way you do from your library), then I think the answer is that your ability to borrow ebooks for free is going to keep getting broader, but it may never be completely universal. Publishers sell libraries licenses that allow them to make ebooks available to the patrons in the populations they serve, but the price they charge is based on the number of people to whom the books will be available, so when it comes to commercial books, if you live in Kansas City you're probably only going to be able to borrow ebooks from the Kansas City library (not from a library in, say, Boston). But things are changing. Have you checked out the Digital Public Library of America (http://dp.la) or HathiTrust (http://hathitrust.org)?

CM: Great question. You're describing the limitations of a subscription-based or purchase-based publishing model. Libraries, especially academic ones like the University of California's, are increasingly interested in a new model of publishing, called Open Access, that makes publications freely available to anyone with an internet connection and that funds the publishing process in ways other than subscription and/or sales. This model would enable you to access publications without affiliation with any particular library or source.

MLC: Yes and no. Most of the e-books provided by libraries are licensed from publishers. Therefore we don't have the right to give them to other libraries (and by extension to the patrons of those libraries). But we shouldn't have to. If we could work with publishers to build tools and business models that allow libraries to pay a small amount to lease ANY e-book from any publisher temporarily (for a week, perhaps), then libraries might be able to afford to provide access to all books. But now, we pay licensing fees that force us to choose which books we can provide.

It seems like a lot of your work involves adjusting to new digital developments and educating people about them. What would it look like if you could create a brand new library, say for a university, without all the history associated with print resources?

MLC: A great question. Let's assume that everything we would need is available digitally (which it isn't) and that we would be able to provide access to digital content in a way that allows users to replicate the experience of getting physical access to content (feeling the page, examining the binding, comparing printing, etc) (which we can't). We could begin by reinventing how we discover information; if everything was digital, we could provide full-text searching capability, which would mean reinventing our search tools. We could provide all materials on demand (purchasing based on use), so we could provide broader collections. We could build the library for people (light, study space, open areas) rather than books. But many older published materials aren't yet available in e-format, and many newer materials are still print only. And we still have legacy catalogs designed around print.

AB: I would not want to lose the street cred libraries have gained by being historically associated with print resources, because that is originally how we became "the place with answers", so this is a really tricky question. I could insert a long list of strategic planning buzzwords here, but really, the library shouldn't look like what I want it to look like. It should look like what my users want it to look like.

I was debating with a friend awhile back and he was concerned that we store so much vital information digitally.

With everything shifting to digital formats, especially backups, what precautions are being taken to prevent data loss in the case of an extreme solar storm or EMP for example?

(RA) Different systems use different backup protocols, so there isn't really a straightforward answer to this question. However, I can tell you that in the event of an extreme solar storm (or other disaster that knocks out power at some catastrophic level), you're not going to be able to come to the library and use our physical collection either. If we can't turn the lights on, we're not letting you in. The only books you'll have access to then will be the ones in your personal collection until the power comes back.

I think he was more specifically concerned with the idea of some sort of permanent data loss. Wiped drives and such. Are there shielding techniques that you know of that are commonly used to protect these backups?

(RA) For ebooks specifically? No -- they would get whatever protection the servers they live on get.

Under the Open Access model, how would I become rich for writing the best book ever?

(RA) Speaking fees. :-)

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm a writer, not a speaker ;-)

(RA) My answer was supposed to be kind of tongue-in-cheek. If you publish your book on an Open Access basis, you're not going to make any money selling access to it -- unless the online version generates print sales, which is certainly possible. (Especially if it's the best book ever. If it's something less than the best book ever, though...) OA is not usually a route that authors take when they're trying to make money; it's more often used in academia by authors who need to get published in scholarly journals in order to get tenure, and who want their work to be as widely available as possible.

CM: And TV spinoffs...

AB: OA only applies to the digital version. If this is the best book ever, a lot of folks are definitely going to want the print version!

How does inter-library loan works with ebooks or digital subscriptions?

(RA) Often, it doesn't. This is a tough issue because ILL is based on what's called the First Sale doctrine in copyright law, which says that when you buy a copy of a book, you can more or less do whatever you want with the copy itself: sell it to someone else, give it away, burn it, carve it up and turn it into a piece of art, etc. But with ebooks, you haven't usually purchased a copy -- you've bought permission to access an online copy, and giving someone else access to it would usually result in multiple people having access when only single-person access has been paid for. (It's more complicated than that, but that's kind of the core issue.) This is really frustrating for us in libraries, and there are various kinds of experiments being conducted as we try to figure out how to resolve the problem -- but it's hard to find a middle ground that will make librarians and copyright holders equally happy.

AB: My snarky answer is "it doesn't". But really it could work with the right licensing contracts and some hardcore DRM on the digital files. But before any of that, we have to get publishers to make ebooks available to libraries in the first place, instead of relying solely on things like Amazon.

MLC: it doesnt, but I don't think it needs to. Under the ILL model, one library lends another library a book. that costs money to both libraries in terms of staffing and shipping costs, and the user needs to wait for the copy to be delivered from the lending to the borrowing library. This makes no sense in the digital world. We should develop models that allow libraries to provide direct and instant access to the e-book or e-article for a rental charge that is less than or equal to what we now pay in salaries and shipping for ILL. This loan request would go to a central clearing house rather than to another library. This would be a more efficient and user-friendly model, and wouldn't force another library to take on staff costs.

(RA) I agree with Michael on this, but it's worth pointing out that the opposition to this kind of model tends to come not from publishers, but from librarians. There is a widespread feeling in our profession that ebooks should be treated exactly the same as printed books: that if you "buy" an ebook, you should therefore be able to "lend" it to someone at another library without restriction, and that paying a transaction cost (no matter how low) for a short-term rental instead undermines the traditional rights of libraries under First Sale. In my view, this position does not take seriously enough the very real differences between purchasing a copy and purchasing a license. The model Michael has outlined does take into account those differences, and in principle it's one that I think has real promise. But its promise won't be realized unless librarians decide that it's okay.

How have digital resources changed your relationship with physical resources in the library?

AB: One of my responsibilities is to support digitization of our rare and special collections - helping to make the awesomeness of our physical collection available to folks who can't make it to Montreal to have a look in person. I see many of our physical resources as potential to increase research and knowledge in the wider world.

CM: We build platforms to provide access to digitized special collections materials. It means more access, but it also means less mediated access. We have to build entry points to these materials that quickly contextualize them and help users understand what other materials might be relevant to them, given where they've landed. In other words, we have to imagine the conversations that might have been had in the reading room in the past - and answer the questions before they're even asked.

MLC: Great question, and one that I could easily spend pages answering. But briefly, we are trying to move to a point where we provide access to as many things as possible in digital format - this includes e-journals, e-books, and e-databases. in academic libraries, journals and databases are primarily in e-form at this point. We are transitioning rapidly to e-books. So going forward, we are building digital collections. We are struggling to figure out how to manage our older physical collections when the preference of our users is mostly for digital. Older material is sometimes duplicated electronically, but not always. We are working collectively to plan strategies for downsizing print collections while ensuring access to at least some copies of print materials, especially when digital surrogates aren't available. At the same time, we are reemphasizing our special collections, buying more rare books and archival collections, because this helps us establish uniqueness of our collections.

(RA) Our approach at the University of Utah is very much like what Michael describes here.

What is the hardest part of your job as a librarian?

AB: Helping folks understand that not everything is online (and what is online might not be what you really need/want). And raising awareness around net neutrality, which I think is going to be the next battle librarylanders will fight.

Where can I borrow a copy of 'The Works of Ouida'?

AB: Project Gutenberg has a free copy of "Wisdom, Wit, and Pathos of Ouida by Ouida" which seems to be a collection of works - http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/22019

MLC: I don't know specifically, but you can always check www.worldcat.org, which searches library holdings internationally.

Guess I'll ask the obvious: with digital information, why do we still need libraries?

Second: what is the weirdest thing that someone has ever asked you to help them find information about?

AB: Because libraries aren't just book warehouses. Librarians can help you find the right digital information from all the tonnes o'junk that's out there. We also work to ensure access to information for our communities, and figure out ways to make sure that you can get to the quality stuff that you want. Second: I once helped a student figure out the copyright issues surrounding pictures of guinea pigs in a closed-membership group for her dissertation.

MLC: Libraries are perhaps more valuable than ever. In the pre-digital world, most library users only had access to the published content in their local library. if a library user needed to find information, he/she was limited to whatever was part of that library collection, and the library paid for that content and ensured that it was (mostly) high quality. Now, there is so much info available online for free that anyone can find some information any time they search. But it's very hard to be sure that the information returned in a search on the open web is reliable. Libraries help guide users to reliable, quailty info. And they do that in part by paying the subscription and licensing costs for expensive licensed databases, e-journals, and e-books.

(RA) I'll respond to your first question, since I only work one hour per week on the reference desk and rarely get weird (or even fun) research questions. The digital environment really has solved a lot of the problems that libraries were originally designed to help with -- the Internet makes it possible to bring resources to people rather than forcing them to come to the library; it answers simple factual questions very well and makes in-depth research much easier than it used to be; it makes documents fully searchable, and so forth. But it also creates problems and raises questions that librarians are well-positioned to help with: how can I tell whether a source is credible? What research strategies will lead me past the irrelevant and low-quality resources to the relevant and high-quality ones? Also, the internet makes it possible for libraries themselves to do things that were never possible in the print environment: libraries are now digitizing rare and unique documents so that they can be found online, and archiving locally-produced documents from their campuses, and even serving as formal publishers of new academic journals. These answers are all off the top of my head -- my colleagues will have more (and probably better ones) as well.

Hi, I have sort of two questions

With recession hitting the US and the government tightening its belt on so many things, do you see further budget cuts affecting library budgets in the coming years? If so, how do you see libraries adapting to this change in budgets?

Also, with the digital shift, how do you see libraries surviving with so many free and easily accessible resources online?

CM: In California, we've seen the gov't funding dry up dramatically over the past few years. In the academic library sector, the results have been significant: fewer subject specialized libraries on campuses, few librarians, shorter hours when students can access the libraries, etc. But the funding drought has also forced us to think creatively about the role of the library on university campuses and how to maximize the reach of limited resources. One thing we've focused on at the University of California is helping faculty, staff and students explore and develop new DIY publishing models that enable them to move beyond the limits of the traditional scholarly publishing framework (in terms of structure, genre, frequency of publication, etc) but do so within a validated scholarly setting. We think this is a significant shift in the role of the library - and something that university libraries are uniquely positioned to do.

Hi Catherine, so what you're saying is that another role you're trying to fill is to help guide students on new ways of self-publishing, and maintain the respect a scholarly peer review gives? Do you think the number of channels available to budding authors actually hinders success, or make it more accessible? There are more options to publish free online yes, but with that comes a sea of hobbiests. Do you think real talent can float to the top with such a saturated market?

CM: Library-based publishing is no less likely to be peer reviewed than commerically published materials. (Ask me another time, however, about the limits of our current peer review model!) And concerns about the amateur author are not new. Each evolution of publishing technology has, historically, raised anxiety about the dissolution of expertise. But what we're doing with student publications in particular is training folks to be future experts in: how to manage peer review/manuscript management systems; how to make sage choices about licensing options; how to develop sustainable business models for your publication; and how to be strategic about getting your publication seen by the people you want to see it.

AB: There are many hobbiests in the print world too. Helping students learn about scholarly publishing and their role as both creators and consumers (author rights; licensing issues; the role it plays in the tenure & promotion system) is something that librarians are well-prepared to take on.

I'm a former library employee (I was in IT but worked out of a branch) and have been in libraries since before I was born until now. Having worked for years at the reference desk I learned how to do everything the librarians did and then some. I love libraries and what they do and would like to still be a part of that but despite my knowledge and skills the lack of a MLS keeps me out.

My questions is, do you two feel that the ability to answer a question effectively is bolstered by the extra education or not relevant?

AB: I joined the ALA re-accreditation committee specifically because I am not convinced that the MLS, at many institutions, is actually teaching what folks need to know. If the MLS is indeed a requirement, then we can require that folks that hold the piece of paper have the skills we require. I've been in a few forums where there is talk of moving to the guild model, where librarians apprentice and learn on the job, since so much of what we do can only be learned that way anyway. That being said, there are a number of MLS programs that are doing it right, and graduating students with awesome metadata/tech/rare books skills, we just need more of'em.

CM: I guess that depends on what you mean by being a part of what libraries do. I don't have an MLS, and nor do about 1/2 the folks on my team. But we work in a digital library where a premium is placed on coding skills, project management skills, advanced experience in academia, etc. I think that different kinds of libraries invest the MLS with different levels of significance.

A digital library just opened here (Bibliotecha) and I applied for all the positions. I have years of experience in libraries and my main skillset is with technology. Despite that I wasn't even called for an interview...

(RA) Applying for all the positions might have been a strategic error. . .

(RA) That's a simple question with a complicated answer. Well, actually, the answer is simple but probably not helpful: "it depends." It depends on where you get your MLS; some programs do a good job of preparing librarians for 21st-century librarianship, and some don't. It depends on who you are (some people benefit tremendously from an MLS program; others don't) and on what the question is (some questions can be better answered by someone who has taken coursework in reference negotiation; for most questions, it doesn't matter). My advice to you, if you want to spend the rest of your career in libraries and are feeling limited by your lack of an MLS, is to get an MLS. It definitely won't hurt your skillset, and it will very likely increase it. On the other hand, if you're happy working in a staff position, there's no reason to feel obligated to get an MLS. You can be tremendously effective without one.

MLC: I don't think that my MLS was very helpful to me. it gave me a vocabulary to talk about the discipline, which is helpful, and my connection to a particular program gave me contacts, which are valuable from a networking perspective. But I didn't learn how to be a librarian; that came from experience. LIS programs need to be overhauled to give more practical skills, with a greater emphasis on DOING.

How do you think schooling will evolve in the future?

• Less class time and more time exploring the world around us using the internet?

• What role will libraries play in this new type of schooling?

AB: Librarians already do reference virtually and have online "office hours" to meet the needs of our community who don't frequent the library. Students spending more time on the internet definitely need to learn how to apply the CRAAP test (Currency, Relevance, Authority, Accuracy, Purpose) so that they can curate their own resources.

Have any of you been faced with the task of justifying or defending the concept of open data to researchers? How would you approach this topic of discussion with those who are opposed to the concept and have fears about the implications of making their hard-earned data public?

AB: It has definitely happened. I usually try and figure out what the actual fear is about making it open - are they worried about: there being an error in their data that they missed? being scooped? commercializing the research? I counter it with discussions around collaboration, new areas of scholarship that could evolve, and mostly, that (for the most part) folks become researchers to share their knowledge with the world, and sharing their data is in line with that. Funder/publisher mandates help start the discussion.

My question is mainly directed at Catherine, but anyone can answer. When it comes to a digital library, what kinds of content do you find necessary to serve an internet community that wouldn't be as important in a brick and mortar library?

I ask as a librarian who works with internet culture. So many resources for this type of study are fleeting and disappear quickly (ie: 4chan, Geocities) and archiving needs to be outsourced to third parties that will sometimes have trouble sustaining themselves (4chanarchive.org which is gone now I think?) or will not have easily searchable data (the Geocities archive is a file, not all available online AFAIK). Do you think there will be any movement towards making these kind of resources a priority in the future?

CM: We've been working hard on developing a Web Archiving Service that enables folks to capture these kinds of resources and sustain them as functional archives past the point of their existence on the web. This is particularly important in the case of resources like end-of-term harvests, where we work to capture the political sites of politicians who are leaving office (and whose sites will disappear overnight). It's a challenging problem, but one that it's crucial for the community to work together to solve.

Boxers or briefs?

AB: TIL that Underwear has a Library of Congress Subject Heading! Thank you!

Zzzzzzzz?

AB: People sleep in the library all the time, especially during exam periods. Today we had therapy dogs in the library for a few hours for students to hang out with. Many of the students were in pyjamas. (None of the dogs were, unfortunately.)

(RA) I keep offering to bring my dog into the library at finals time, but unfortunately he is officially classified as a Trauma Dog.

(RA) Ssssshhhhh!

MLC: ????????