IAMA Mall Cop in a shitty area that is fully allowed to go hands on. Ask me anything :)

"Two Sirs and a Motherfucker" rule in play?

I'm not familiar with this

Unofficial Military Checkpoint Security protocol: You get two Sirs:

"Sir, please calm down, we are trying to assist you."

"Sir! There is no need for loud language or threatening gestures, calm down now or we will be forced to detain you!"

..And then a Motherfucker.

"Motherfucker what did I just say!?" (Force used)

Wow! I've never heard it put that way before but essentially YES that is exactly how it goes!!

Ah, well, good then, that's how we shorthanded it. There's some fancy name for criminology majors, something akin to "response elevation protocol" or some such thing. "Two Sirs & a Motherfucker" was always easier to remember though, and easier to explain.

Love it!

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I assist Loss Prevention agents with making stops and apprehensions. The liability of the apprehension falls on the agents based in if they followed the elements and executed the stop correctly. My purpose is to make sure there is not an issue of safety when the "arrest" is made. Meaning that my image deters the shoplifter from hurting the LP agent or trying to run away into traffic. They are given at least 3 verbal and descriptive instructions to simply walk back inside the store and go to the office where they will be issued a citation by PD and a civil summons for the store. However sometimes they still decide to fight. In which I act within my policy on what I'm allowed to do, to stop the shoplifter from causing harm to themselves or others, by using minimum force necessary to place hand restraints on them. I've NEVER seen or heard of somebody getting seriously hurt other then maybe a bruised wrist. So as long as I act according to what my policy says I can and I don't go overboard, I don't cause any damages that I can be sued for. As for personal injuries that I can experience from a criminal? Fuck it. Everyone gets hurt sometimes and I will risk getting my ass kicked to back up my friends that I work with. Two of my guys did get pepper sprayed by a fleeing suspect though once.

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Thank you I really appreciate those good words. Yes I am finishing my associates degree in criminal justice this summer. If I get the sergeant position then I will commit a year to it and after that I'll be joining the Air Force for security forces. After that I'd like to become a cop when I get out one day with aspirations of going federal. I'll be furthering my education once im in the air force if its not cut by then. So we'll see how it plays out!

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Thank you very much

Did the pepper spray guy get away?

He got busted shoplifting from elsewhere a month or so later. My guys were able to identify him in a lineup so he'll be getting the assault charges. So he got away at the time but got fucked later

Pretty sure that unless you're a sworn LEO you're violating local/state/federal law by physically detaining people. Assuming this is in the U.S

Edit for clarity: Based on what you've said, the burden of liability for the apprehension falls on loss prevention. That said, false imprisonment is a very serious charge, and I wish mall cops and loss prevention people would stop taking themselves so fucking seriously. I was physically assaulted by "loss prevention" after refusing to show them my reciept after I had already left their store with the items that I paid for. I didn't steal shit, walked straight in, picked up my purchases, paid and walked out. Luckily for me, and un-luckily for them, I was legally carrying a can of Freeze +P O.C spray.

TL:DR, Try to "detain" me without probable cause? Bad fucking day to be a rent a cop.

That's why loss prevention officers have to strictly follow the 5 elements in practice before an apprehension can be made so that a citizens arrest can be properly executed. It all falls under citizen's arrest laws. As for public safety officers, it's a privilege that comes with the PSO license given by the state which allows for detentions to take place when a public safety hazard is at hand.

Right, not hating on mall cops, LP's or anyone else doing their jobs properly.

This incident was unrelated and I shouldn't have brought it into your AMA.

That said, these guys were in the wrong. They had no probable cause to assault me for failing to show a reciept, at least not in the state where this incident took place. The LEO's who responded to the scene, after they made their initial assesment, found the LP's be in violation of the law. They were arrested and charged with battery and false imprisonment, and I was let go with a "sorry for your trouble".

Thanks for being one of the good guys

I am really sorry that happened to you my friend. Yeah I can tell it wasn't Colorado cus we actually don't have a battery charge here, only different degrees of assault. Good LP agents NEVER rely on, or even ask for, receipts EVER. A good stop happens when the 5 elements are met, and if they are met correctly, then a receipt should not matter. I hope the people who stopped you lost their jobs because that is a terrible practice and completely unlawful.

what is your favourite animal and why?

Rhino. I think it's cool that they are like Earth's natural battle tank.

how did you get the job?

My neighbor is the department head of maintenance and has close ties to the security director. He came into the KFC that I was a supervisor at and told me that security was hiring at the mall. (He knew I was a criminal justice major and would be interested). So I went in and applied, he put in a good word for me and they gave me an interview that I NAILED. And then I was hired! I am also the youngest person on the team by 5 years. The next youngest person is 24, and I am 19.

Tell us a story about your sketchiest regulars

We have a Sureno problem in our town. Around when I first got started there was a group of about 5 (about 13-25) years old that would always loiter in the mall. But we never really had an issue with them. Well a few months went by the group grew to about 30. At this point they would travel down the mall in this massive group, blasting Sureno music from their cellphones, and scaring customers. Then one night, lo and behold, a fight breaks out in the parking lot of about 20 versus 20. They all ran away when we responded. The next morning the group (I counted 23) came in the mall to which we immediately approached with 7 officers and told them to leave immediately and that they weren't welcome back. They turned around and began to leave but mouthed off the whole way. One of them (about 16) got into one of my officer's face and started yelling/talking shit. When he threw his hands up and made fists, my officer immediately picked him up and slammed him to the ground. The group immediately turned around and ran towards us but we all ran back at them and yelled at them to stay back and leave the mall immediately. They turned around and left, still talking shit, and leaving their friend behind. An extra duty police officer arrived and ran the kid's name. He had a warrant for his arrest and was promptly transported by another PD officer. He also got charged with trespassing because it turned out that he was previously banned from the mall for pulling a knife on the security director (got arrested then too). I would say that's my best story for sketchy regulars.

You're from pueblo aren't ya? Maybe the springs but I don't Get that vibe...

Negative on both man. But I really don't want to discuss location, I mean how many malls are there in Colorado.

Don't worry man, just my Colorado curiosity kicking in. Lots of respect for you guys. Keeps the trash out.

Thank you! I am really loving the appreciation here

was there ever a time when you feared for your life? has there ever been a incident where someone got really hurt?

I answered in a previous question with a story that involved 22 Surenos running in my direction. I was a little scared but when I ran back at them and told them to get the fuck back, they left. So nothing to bad. The only time that one of our guards got seriously hurt was when our ATMs got robbed in the middle of the night. Our night guard got pistol whipped and tied up in a housekeeping room :( he is almost 70 years old! But he's alright now.

There are surenos all the way out in Colorado?

Yeah but they aren't anywhere near as hard as they are in places like California. I mean there were 23 of them and they wouldn't stand up to 7 unarmed mall cops? And they've never been back to the mall!!! They claim Sureno but they aren't real. Edit: the people that robbed the ATMs aren't suspected of being affiliated with said Sureno group.

I'm a deputy in SoCal and I see Surenos and south siders everyday. It was just surprising the gang has reached that far out...especially since they take their orders from la eme

You might find it interesting that Surenos are even here in Birmingham Alabama, and have been for about 6 years now.

I believe it!

Yessir, Surenos and bloods are our biggest issues here.

They probably assumed you had some sort of weapon. That, in addition to being pussies.

Also do you mall cops you know ever carry a bottom heavy flashlight? I saw a mall cop knock a guy clean out with the bottom of that thing, and it was awesome.

Yeah I carry a big mag lite haha you can see it my picture. It's optional, I'm the only one that carries a big one like that besides my assistant director.

Oh yeah, to further answer your question on guards getting hurt my best friend (also a guard) and my other really good friend (JC Penney LP agent) got pepper sprayed by a shoplifter once. They got FUCKED up too. A nearby Starbucks associate saw it and ran out with a gallon of milk that he poured over their faces. It was bad... He got busted by a Sportsmans warehouse LP agent a few months later and had felony assault charges (and I believe, robbery) pressed against him for pepper spraying them.

Did the milk help?

Yeah a little bit. Not sure exactly why, I'm not familiar with the science of it but yes it does make it a little easier to endure. Have you ever drank milk to ease the burn of a hot pepper? Try it sometime!

Ever post under the username Gecko45?

Edit: Found a link for source material:

http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

For anyone not around when this happened on teh interwebz...

Nope

have you ever had to use the phrase "you better back it up?"

(every time i think of mall cops i think of that video now.)

can you see yourself doing this job in 10 years? 20?

I have not. I have said "back the fuck up" before though (see earlier Sureno post). And no, I will be there for one more year of they give me the supervisor position, otherwise I'm joining the Air Force at the end of the summer. I love my job and I think it's a blessing to be in such a cool position at 19 years old. However, I do have bigger aspirations and its not going to pay for my college.

What is a mall cop? Are you an actual police officer or a security guard who works in a shopping centre?

My actual title is Public Safety Officer. I have a PSO License through the city that allows me to be hired as a security guard. My mall (shopping center) contracts a security company to patrol the mall. So no I am not in any way an actual police officer. "Mall cop" is just slang, a common term for a mall security officer.

SO you work for this security company?

Yes. I won't use the actual names for anonymity reasons but it basically works like this. A bank owns the mall property. The bank needs someone to run the mall so they get a management company, say Smith Properties. Smith Properties now needs a management team, security, maintenance, and housekeeping. Smith Properties now hires, ISP Public Safety, RanCon Maintenance, and CleanCom housekeeping. Each of the those departments have there own bosses and are in charge of their own hiring and running of their duties, with the policies of their companies and the oversight of mall management. So as a security guard, Smith Properties pays ISO $15 an hour, to pay me $10 an hour to be a public safety officer in their mall. And it goes the same for all of the departments. I follow ISO policy and procedure, and management delegates me to what needs to be done.

Is the payment really this bad or was the number just random?

Minimum wage here in Colorado is $7.64 so $10 an hour really isn't that bad here. We start at $10 and get $.20 every 6 months.

You just want to say you do good work. It's a respectable paying job that probably doesn't get enough its share of thanks.

Best of luck in your criminal justice degree and future endeavours.

Thank you!!

What city do you work in?

I'm going to have to decline due to staying anonymous :) sorry!!

What state then? If in USA

Colorado

Whats it like being in a state where pot is legal? Have you experienced any noticeable changes in the way of life up there?

No noticeable changes. People don't realize how specific the law is. You can have it but you can't really sell it or buy it. You also can't be under 21 and you can't smoke it in public. We do occasionally get people smoking pot near the entrances saying "It's legal now bro!" To which we have to educate them of the law and ask them to stop.

What weapons do you carry, if any? I saw flashlight in the picture,did you ever hit someone with that?

We are not allowed to carry any weapons at all. That being said I have my big mag lite and a pocket knife. I've never had to use either yet however my assistant director did throw his at a fleeing suspect once to keep him from running into a highway. It nailed him in the back of the head and he dropped to the ground about 20 yards before the highway. He was ok.

Wait, he threw the flashlight or the knife?

HAHAHA MY BAD! I'll be more specific next time! He through his flash light and the heavy side hit the guy and knocked him down. Honestly I have two reasons why I carry a pocket knife. To cut a shoelace for someone's shoe stuck in an escalator and to have one last little life line in case I end up in a situation where I would say "fuck my job, I'm not going to die" and I have one last chance to defend myself.

Former LP who could not go hands on unless someone was in serious danger. So how often do you actually go hands on?

I would say 1-2 times a week. Usually it's when assisting JC Penney LP. They seem to get all of the fighters and they have full allowance to go hands on if the suspect runs, resists, or fights. My policy basically says I can go hands on as long as they can go hands on. When helping a smaller store that doesn't have LP, I can only go hands on if the person gets violent. Otherwise I have to let them leave.

What has been your favorite fight while on duty?

Probably this glorious tackle I had for my douchebag (loss prevention) friend at JC Penney. I was changing out for the day and I had just gotten into my plain clothes. My supervisor was in the room around the corner and I could hear her radio from where I was. All of the sudden I hear "ALL OFFICERS TO EAST JC PENNEY NOW SOMEONE IS THREATENING TO SHOOT (lpagent)!!!!". Well East JC Penney just so happens to be right around the corner from the security office so I took off running. This LP agent is one of my best friends so I was not playing around. I came around the corner and saw this hulking bald ass white dude yelling at him and pulling up his shirt like he had a gun. Just some statistics, this guy was about 6'5", 300 pounds according to his drivers license. And my ass is 6'0" and 165 pounds. So I continued to run as hard as I could towards him and all I was thinking was "this is going to hurt REALLY bad." Well he turned around and saw me just as I hit him and friend-LP-agent-guy hit him at the EXACT same time. Motherfucker timbered over like a tree being uprooted. He ended up getting his lip busted pretty bad on the rocks in the median that he fell on. Immediately I dropped my knee to the back of his head and kept him down with the lp agent while the rest of my officers arrived and jumped on top of him. We got him cuffed, although it was hard, then crossed his legs to his back like a hog tie. Then sat there and waited while he screamed rape for about 15 minutes until PD arrived. That's probably my favorite moment. We later found out he never had a gun.

Do you receive any special training for your job?

We are taught basic takedowns, pressure point techniques, and how properly place hand cuffs on someone. Aside from the fun stuff we have two fat manuals that we have to read page for page and take a workbook-long test on.

How much of your job is babysitting vs. action packed fun?

I would say its about 90% bullshit and baby sitting and 10% action. I've gone a few weeks before without ever having an incident. It's rare but it happens. I always tell people that a mall is actually an adult day care. A place for adults and teenagers to go and keep themselves busy by spending money and window shopping. As security I have a bazillion and a half duties. A contractor needs roof access and I have to verify their insurance, sign them in, and open a roof hatch. A bathroom is over flowing, and I have to shut the water off. Someone is parked in a handicap spot with no sticker, I gotta log it and place a violation sticker on it. Damage to property like a broken or stolen flower pot? Broken/stopped escalator? Graffiti? Wet spill? lost cellphone, purse, child? All us. When it comes to shoplifts, chases, fights, that's all just a sprinkle of fun that comes with basically running the mall and delegating the departments

Is the pay good? I assume it's hourly.

You start at $10 an hour and get $.20 every 6 months. Right now I'm being offered Sergeant position (shift supervisor) and if I get I'll be at $13

Do you ever abuse this? Or detain people simply because you can?

Never. Not only would I be fired in a heartbeat, but I'm just not that much of an asshole... If I'm taking someone down and handcuffing them, it is because they have escalated to being physical in some way. They are fighting us, they are fighting loss prevention, or they are fighting another mall patron etc. We go hands on ONLY when there is a public safety matter at hand. Out of uniform and after duty, that is another story....

A story that some might want to hear, if you are willing...

Well as you can see from other posts, my assistant director is badass and crazy as fuck. He's a marine so he doesn't take shit from anyone. And I have seen him drop his badge and belt to take on someone talking shit. People always say "you're just hiding behind that badge! You ain't shit without it" well the badge gets dropped, come on motherfucker. Outside of work, a lot of our officers run into the same people we kick out. And they often want to fight when they see you out of uniform. Luckily I haven't been in this situation but it does happen.

the movie mall cop was that the movie that made you want to be a mall cop ?

Better pay and a more fun job made me want to be a mall cop.

What did you do before you became a mall cop then?

I was a shift supervisor at KFC.

What's you favorite song to kick ass to?

Omertà - Lamb of God

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Ok

So if someone fights you and kills you, are they forgiven?

If I die, you are all forgiven. But if I live, I will kill you. Such is the rule of honor. The main point of Omerta isn't necessarily the literal meaning. It means I take care of my own problems. Outside of work, I've never called the police because I believe I can handle my own problems. This sounds ridiculous but I actually have a full sized ka-bar combat knife tattooed to my leg that reminds me that I don't need to appeal to the law (carry a weapon) because I am the weapon (its tattooed into me). I know, 2Edgey

Favorite donut?

White cream filled Long John's. sounds gay but they are fucking delicious.

I'm going to have to agree there... uh-mazing!

The best!!!!!

Are you allowed to go "hands-in"?

Depends on how into it she is

What do think about mall cops who use segways? Are they just lazy or do they serve a purpose?

I've never seen one but I assume they are lazy. We don't use those stupid ass things we already get made fun of enough.

Who in the hell would name their kid Wiggles?

It's a running joke from high school that I REALLY need to get over.

What was the least cooperative person (or people) you had to escort out?

Yesterday was a bad one! Bitch lady wanted to come back with her friend who we just apprehended for shoplifting. At first we allowed her to come back but she started cussing up a storm and starting a scene in the store so Loss Prevention asked us to escort her out. I escorted her out and she started getting in my face, yelling at me, then stuck her cellphone in my face and snapped my picture. I was fucking RAGING on the inside but I kept my cool, stayed calm, and continued to escort her out. She told me she would show my picture to her boy and he would come find me and kick my ass. Well she may not have gotten charged with anything but I still banned her from mall property for life :)

Another one tried to start a fight with my assistant director after he was kicked out of the mall for disruptive behavior. He started swinging and my assistant director slammed him to the ground in about 2 seconds and cuffed him up by himself with no back up. It was awesome. Fuck that guy.

dude you're the man

Bro, YOU are the man. And thank you

What was your biggest "action star" moment?

Probably when I tackled a massive dude that was threatening to shoot my friend, who in turn also tackled him at the same time, thusly knocking his Sasquatch ass over and busting his face on the rocks. He didn't have a gun though like he said he did... Full story in a previous comment!

what is the most dangerous situation you have been involved in?

When one of my officers took down a Sureno and his 22 friends started running towards me and my other guys, that was scary but they were bitches. Once tackled the shit out of a guy that was threatening to shoot an LP agent. He didn't actually have a gun though. Eh just stuff like that. I've been in several dozen fights but I haven't had a knife or gun pulled on me or anything like that just yet.

Are you kick ass mall cop Darien long?

HA like I said, I don't get tasers and shit to make people listen to me. I got my verbal judo and my hands when it comes to shitty situations.

Do you ever use that whole "fully hands on" thing as a pickup line?

I was helping a FINE young lady to her car once and on the way out she flirtatiously said "don't touch me mall cop!" In reference to an earlier incident that I guess she saw. And I simply replied "I can't touch you unless you touch me first." To which she did a little scrunch face giggle that made me cream a little. Then she left! I also had a a really fine PD cop hit on me once! That shit changed my life forever. But I am in a very committed relationship so I'm a little flirty but I never escalate beyond that.

One of the best AMA's yet, and simply because of the takedown stories.

I myself am training to hopefully do something similar here in Michigan. I'm not 100% sure what I want to do yet -- security or paramedic. Either way, this was an inspiring AMA.

Kuds, OP, and keep up the good work.

Thank you! Good luck with your future endeavors!

You have a Segway don't you?

Hell no

It's for the best not to have one. My local mall uses them and it's hard to have respect for someone who rather than give foot chase, will lean gently forward on a pogo stick with wheels.

Yeah fuck that noise. I SPRINT as hard as I can wearing all my gear and it can be pretty tough but i would never trade it for a fucking SCOOTER. Those guys aren't security guards, they are customer service with a badge.

*that's a lot of security guards. Ever heard of g4s? That's my company. I'm a stereotypical pointless guard. No touch. All writing or calling management/cops.

Sorry, that was rude of me to say. And no I have not heard of G4s.

You sound jealous...

I secretly am, don't tell anyone

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When there is nothing better to do I usually bullshit with the tenant employees. I love talking and conversing (yes, sometimes flirting) with the tenant employees. It builds a stronger rapport between mall employees and security. It makes them not afraid to stop us and ask us a question, or call us when they need us.

Hot girls in the mall? SO MANY!! All day. Every day. When I walk with my best friend (also a guard), we usually play a game where we guess the rating of a girl that's far away, then go talk to her and see what she is up close. "Bro she's definitely an 8", "naw man she's not more than a 6". Then we go talk to her, ask her how she's doing blah blah blah, then walk away. "2.", "2....." I never get numbers because I'm in a relationship (almost 4 years!) but there is one officer that CONSTANTLY gets numbers. He even got with one of the Hooters girls once. Edit: spelling fuck up

Okay, I mean this in the least sarcastic way, honestly. My question is: Do you feel good about yourself? I mean does upholding the rules/laws make you feel confident and fulfilled?

I would say yes! I see no reason to feel bad in my job. I represent the mall, a place where people should come to enjoy some lunch, do some shopping, and just get out of the house. Fuck people that try to ruin the image of a mall by starting fights, committing crime, and scaring customers. I take pride in taking the responsibility of securing the sanctity of a mall. And when cuffed up fuckers say "Damn I wont fuck with the security here again, y'all mother fuckers be crazy", I actually feel pretty accomplished. Thats one less criminal that I have to worry about on my property

How often did has someone bought up paul blart mall cop of observe and report ?

"Hey check out Paul Blart" and "Top flight security of the world Craaiiiiggg!!" I hear approximately 20 times a shift. And yes, I usually do make a comment back to make them feel ridiculously stupid. "Oh my god! You saw a mall cop and made a Paul Blart joke?! You are SOOO fucking clever, I have never heard someone make that reference before. I hope you grow up to be a STAR one day."

You mention the five elements often here. What are they specifically?

This may be circumstantial to regions but this is as far as I know. Approach/selection of the item, Concealing (circumstantial, they don't always conceal), Constant surveillance, Passing the points of sale/not declaring the items, Leaving the store.

Damn a little late to this AMA, but I'm really curious about this and I hope you answer it. My mom and I were at the mall recently and a woman shoplifted something from Zara. The security guard yelled loudly at the woman to step back into the store, about 3 times. My question is, if the woman did indeed steal something from Zara, would the security guard call the police to get her charged with theft or would she be escorted to the police station? Can you elaborate on this?

Thanks!

Well here is the issue with that. As a PSO, we can conduct a citizens arrest IF we personally see the crime happen in front of us. If a store calls us and tells us they've been shoplifted from then THEY have to make contact and ask the person to return to the store. We come and assist with the "apprehension". If it is a loss prevention agent that can go hands on, then we can go hands on and help detain the person. If the store associate that witnessed the shoplift is unwilling to make contact and cannot go hands on, then neither can we. At this point the only thing that security officer can do is contact the police and tell them what happened IF the store wants to prosecute and charge the person. Otherwise, without proper probable cause that the security officer himself doesn't not have, there isn't anything he can really do.

Take any jiujitsu? Do Recommend if not.. :)

Nope. 100% of my training comes from fighting with my friends, mainly my buddy thats in loss prevention and my best friend that is also a guard. We fight each other ALL the time. My best friend is a marine so he shows me lots of cool stuff while my other buddy has a high belt (not sure what color) in tae kwon do so he shows me a lot too. I am looking into some formal training though!

Are you allowed to have long hair?

Also: Have you ever had to kick someone you know out?

No you can't have long hair and no I haven't personally kicked out someone I know but I did come on duty once after my day off to find one of good friends from high school was banned for shoplifting and fighting

HAHA! I'd love to see one of your kind try to put handcuffs on me.

That's what all of the handcuffed people said

Two ?

1) What's your opinion on marijuana.

2) What do you do if someone asserts their rights as opposed to being "cooperative" (consenting to searches, sobriety tests, etc.) ? Do you take it as being a dick or do you feel they are in the right to do it?

i.e. you think someone has drugs on them (you run their record and they have priors) but you do not have enough probable cause to search. They refuse the search. Do you "find something" or reluctantly let them go?

Am I better off "cooperating" by letting you search, hoping you will be a "cool" cop, or assert my rights, increasing the chances my lawyer can get me off on a technicality?

EDIT::: NM you're just a little mall cop. Well ill leave this up for a real cop lol

1.) I couldn't give a fuck less about marijuana honestly. The last 3 times I caught people smoking weed on my property, I told them to leave for the day and let them off with a warning. 2.) Well let's remember that I'm not a real cop, just a security guard. I am not allowed to search people. I am only allowed to pat someone down after they are in restraints to make sure they don't have any weapons. All further actions take place by the police. And when in this situation with the police? Feel free to exercise your 4th amendment right! The constitution is there for a reason my friend! Always exercise your rights! I've never seen a cop get upset and be a dick over it. But we also have AMAZING police where we are.

dick move on that edit bro

Right? Bit of an asshole..