IAmA guy who shot my father in self defense AMA
Alright guys I'm pretty new here so don't bash my spelling mistakes too hard.
Well my dad was drinking pretty heavily that night. (counted 18 beers in about 2 hours) and generally speaking when he was drunk there was GOING to be a fight. The night started with just the general passive aggressive wordplay and then progressed to screaming and eventually him telling me to hit him (so that he would have an excuse to beat the shit out of me I guess). Eventually he just snapped and went for a small .22 revolver in another room my mom got to it first and my uncle + mom played keep away with it. Eventually my he wrestled it away from my uncle and started pulling the trigger but my uncle had his finger in between the hammer and managed to throw it outside into the dark. Dad then decided he was leaving and he got his keys and went outside. He came back in 3 minutes later muttering about him leaving was what we wanted him to do. He then made a B-line for my room which contains many assorted knives and weapons. My mom ran into the room and tried to wrestle the knife away from him and he grabbed her hair with one hand and had the knife in the other (kinda like a human shield) and as soon as I saw that I knew I had to do it. So I reached into the drawer and pulled out my .44 mag and shot him in the liver/stomach area. EDIT: I answered this elsewhere but I can't seem to find it. He didn't die right away. The police arrived and cuffed/interrogated me, but no charges were filled and they called it a very clear cut case of self defense. He was air lifted to a nearby hospital, fighting the police and medical staff the entire time. He fell unconcious never woke up, and died three days later.
Edit: Deleted proof people said it might give away location, Do I need to send it to mods now or have enough people already seen it that I don't need to put it back up?
EditX2: Picture of Dan for those wondering http://imgur.com/HwtFZ
Editx3: Sorry guys I'm new to this I'm trying to find the fastest way to answer questions.
EditX4: I'm going to post the story in the OP I guess some people can't see what I posted in the link's
EditX5: Reason I'm posting this http://redd.it/13g73r
Editx6: Alright ladies and gents I've answered most of the questions, think most of them showed up in the best comments section I'm off for the night I have things to do.
Well my dad was drinking pretty heavily that night. (counted 18 beers in about 2 hours) and generally speaking when he was drunk there was GOING to be a fight. The night started with just the general passive aggressive wordplay and then progressed to screaming and eventually him telling me to hit him (so that he would have an excuse to beat the shit out of me I guess). Eventually he just snapped and went for a small .22 revolver in another room my mom got to it first and my uncle + mom played keep away with it. Eventually my he wrestled it away from my uncle and started pulling the trigger but my uncle had his finger in between the hammer and managed to throw it outside into the dark. Dad then decided he was leaving and he got his keys and went outside. He came back in 3 minutes later muttering about him leaving was what we wanted him to do. He then made a B-line for my room which contains many assorted knives and weapons. My mom ran into the room and tried to wrestle the knife away from him and he grabbed her hair with one hand and had the knife in the other (kinda like a human shield) and as soon as I saw that I knew I had to do it. So I reached into the drawer and pulled out my .44 mag and shot him in the liver/stomach area.
EDIT: I answered this elsewhere but I can't seem to find it. He didn't die right away. The police arrived and cuffed/interrogated me, but no charges were filled and they called it a very clear cut case of self defense. He was air lifted to a nearby hospital, fighting the police and medical staff the entire time. He fell unconcious never woke up, and died three days later.
For a moment in that story I thought you were going to say he died of a .22 wound to the stomach. I don't know if you care about my point of view but it sounds like you did the right thing. Why did you shoot him that low though?
Well he had my mother in such a position that I couldn't make any other shots. There was only a sliver of an area to hit him.
Then you made one hell of a clutch shot man.
Yeah. No room for mistakes with a .44.
I have been shooting since the time I was big enough to hold a gun = ). Hunting is a big part of my family and the area around here (south carolina) I've put at least 1000 rounds through just about every firearm I own. The only luck was where the confrontation took place If he had of grabbed a knife from the kitchen instead of my room I would have had to go get the weapon and it may have been too late.
His poor ears man
This was my first thought upon reading that he discharged a .44 indoors. Holy hell...I use digital cans when shooting, and a .44 is still pretty loud. But given the circumstances, I'd take "deaf" over "dead mother".
Honestly I don't even remember my ears ringing. I had so much adrenaline pumping I didn't even notice.
So let me make sure I have this right... you made a split second decision to save your mother from your father by shooting him in the side with a fucking .44 while he was holding her as a shield?
That's... I don't know, man. I've never heard of anything like that. You should be a cop or something.
I was actually thinking of being in the military for a time, but my folks talked me out of it. Also not to bash any cops but I've shot against several officer's at the range and most of them don't practice as much as they should.
Unrelated. But is your Uncle a veteran? Because that disarming trick was badass.
No, we are both avid hunters though and know most firearms that are in the house inside and out.
Thank you for sharing. Side question: Did your family take him to the hospital after shooting him?
No, the ambulances arrived and they ended up medivaccing him to the hospital.
You say there was no physical abuse elswhere but when he drank like that in the past there was always a fight. I would say causing fights because of drinking is most definitely abuse. I guess my question is what caused the dramatic escalation in violence to murderous intentions on this night? Why didn't someone call the police earlier when he went for the gun?
He would push and grapple occasionally but he never hit us. It was mostly emotional abuse. Last time somebody used a phone on one of his rampages he ended up trashing the phone and the wall it was connected to. Honestly I'm not sure what caused the escalation in violence that night they didn't find any unusual drugs in his system.
Well my dad was drinking pretty heavily that night. (counted 18 beers in about 2 hours) and generally speaking when he was drunk there was GOING to be a fight.
In hindsight do you think it would have been a good idea to keep the firearms in a safe he could not access?
Mine? No, he had no idea where it was. The .22 was my mothers and I didn't even know she kept it loaded.
What happened right after you shot him? Did he collapse and release your mom instantly or did he make an attempt to harm either of you?
His knees just gave out is the best I can describe it. He started fighting again a min or so later trying to get my uncle to stop putting pressure on the wound. He also flipped the cops the bird and cussed the ambulance staff from what I've heard.
His knees just kinda gave out and he laid on the ground for a second then he started trying to get back up. I yelled at him to stay down until my uncle got there to restrain him.
Proof makes sense to me! So the obvious question, how did it feel?
Well, honestly I was in shock. The cops arrived probably 5 mins after the incident and I flagged them down from the road (house was probably 1/3 of a mile off the road. They all drew guns on me and I had to lay face down in the gravel and mud etc until they searched me. They then put me in the back of a squad car and started asking me questions. That's about the point where it really kicked in what had just happened, and I felt heartbroken. Because I knew no matter if he lived or died things would never be the same. The worst part wasn't until the next day when his mother and brother started calling the house, I have always been close to both of them and I was TERRIFIED that they would hate me. They both turned out to understand though and everything ended up being OK. His other brother and dad still don't really talk to me though.
Did they try and charge you with murder?
No, I would say it all happened around 11 PMish and I got to stay at home that night. Never had any charges brought against me never had to go to the station. They did fingerprint and check everyone in the house for gunpowder though. They also took the knives, .22 and .44 in as evidence and wouldn't return them even after the investigation was over. Ended up having to pay a lawyer and it still took over a year after the investigation was ended to get them back.
Why wouldn't they return them?
The investigation was already closed and they still wouldn't return them I waited a year after the investigation to start hounding them about it and the only answer I could get out of them was "We just don't return firearms" pretty much. After I got in touch with a lawyer I got them back in about a month.
- What was your father's initial reaction? (Did he drop the knife? Did he jump back and stand there for a moment? Etc.)
- Do you remember hearing the gun go off?
- Do you still have the gun or did they confiscate it?
- Do you miss him?
Thank you for sharing and answering our questions (even if you don't answer mine).
- He just kinda slumped to the floor, was like his legs just stopped working.
- Great question, No I didn't I don't even think my ears were ringing (They should have been though)
- I have it now but it took me I think 2 years total + a lawyer to get it
- Yes, very much I love him still.
Yes, very much I love him still.
Damn. That's terrible man. The fact that underlying all of his violent, alcoholic tendencies was a man you loved and with whom you had fond memories. A man who raised you and was your father.
I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Was there any attempt to get him help*?
*Edit: Help for his abusive behavior that led up to nearly killing the mother/his wife.
An old neighbor of ours tried to get him into AA probably 3 years prior to the event, but he refused to admit that he had a problem
What effects did it have on your family/extended family?
Well, I'm still close with my mom/uncle on my moms side and 3/5 of the people on his side of the family still treat me well. I always have this nagging suspicion that they are afraid of me though.
From the article it sounds like you did the right thing, but has ending a life affected you? Of course, since he held the knife up to your mom's neck he sounds like a waste of life, but it still might keep you up at night.
It's been a few years so I don't have nightmares anymore(Mom still does). But yeah it deeply effects you, someday's you just feel like everyone looks at you and knows what you've done. I'm also constantly paranoid and keep a gun with me everywhere I go (licensed CWP).
How long had your father been abusive? (I'm assuming he was)
And how do friends and family treat you now?
Well, He's was always an aggressive person but there was never any abuse other than emotional until the end. We had both taken martial arts (Shotokan) for years he was a second degree black belt and weighed in about 240 lbs. So he was a scary, scary person.
Was this a breaking moment for you where you just sort of said "Fuck you and your bullshit." Or was it a moment where you were seriously afraid he would actually hurt or kill your mother? I hope I'm not being insensitive asking that way, I'm just wondering.
I was seriously afraid for my mom. I knew if he started he wouldn't just stop with her. There was me + mom + uncle + grandma (moms side) + little brother(he was 4 I think) in the house.
Oh my god a 4 year old brother... I am thankful for your bravery for his sake. Do you see any changes or personality differences in him that may be attributed to this event? Thank you so much for opening up like this. You're an impressive individual.
Well I have kinda taken over the father figure role in his life for better or worse. He was pretty young at the time and doesn't remember any of it(He was on the other side of the house). He doesn't really remember him I remember once he asked who he was in a photograph and I had to leave the room and go cry big blubbery manly tears which is something I never do.
This may sounds weird but.. Did you think about where you were aiming. Did you naturally avoid the head? Did you think the stomach was enough to disable but potentially not kill? These may be hard to answer, I can't imagine having to deal with anything like this in my life. Thanks for the AMA.
Well I'm not the worlds best shot or anything but I would say I'm better than most. I am very practiced in shooting and I've hunted for years. I really didn't go for a head shot because I wasn't trying to really kill him so much as stop him.
Yes, I was pretty positive that the 200 grain .44 Hollow point was enough to disable him.
The autopsy report revealed that the shot had obliterated his kidney and wrecked half of his liver. He also had a broken rib or two but that was probably from the Cpr/ recessitation/ when he died at the hospital
I was an avid gun owner before the event, and I'm an even more avid gun owner now. As the quote goes "God made man, Samuel Colt made them equal".
I'm pretty opinionated on this subject, but I believe whole-heartedly in my right to carry a gun. I would go as far as to even wish they would allow me to CWP carry in college. Because I guarantee that if a crazed gunmen showed up on campus that he wouldn't make it very far with a dozen CWP carriers on there. Criminals are criminals they will find a way to get a weapon, Overly restricting laws just hurt the honest man who wants a way to protect himself.(I'm not saying give everybody a gun here I'm all for testing and regulation)
Wow. I feel sort of wrong asking you questions, but I guess you wouldn't be here if you didn't want to. So...What happened immediately following the shot, but before the police got there? And was anyone tending to your father, trying to stop the blood loss etc.?
Nah, it's cool man doesn't bother me anymore. On to your questions. Immediately following the shot it seemed like time started working again, and he just kinda slumped backwards like his legs weren't working. I think that mom ran out of the room very quickly and she was screaming or crying maybe a combo of both, memory isn't so clear when it comes to such high intensity situations. Then he started to get up and I yelled STAY DOWN. My uncle ran from wherever he was into the room and moved the knife away from him and called for a rag. Which mom got either before or after calling the police. My uncle basicly had to lay on him to keep him from trying to get back up but eventually he stopped struggling and just kept mumbling incoherently for the most part.
This will probably get buried but I feel compelled to say it anyways. Good job OP. Not good job for shooting your father but good job for realizing how dangerous the situation was escalating and taking the necessary actions to stop them. Thank you for not becoming indecisive and hesitant to save your mom only after your dad had gone too far. Quite honestly, you are the type of man that I hope resides somewhere within myself that will one day protect and save the lives of my loved ones.
Thanks man, I've had people tell me I am a hero but honestly you don't feel like one you feel like an outsider.
After you fired, did he say anything to anyone?
He said. "You shot me?" Like he didn't think I could have or would have. Then it was mostly incoherent rambling.
Was this the first time he did this or was this a normal problem for you and your mother?
This is the first time he had ever gotten a weapon. Cursing, threatening, tearing thing's apart, and throwing things had been going on for years though. We were afraid every time he started drinking.
Its possibly too soon to answer this without remorse affecting your answer but how do you feel now? Has life gotten easier not having to be afraid anymore?
He was Dr. jekyll and Mr. Hyde honestly. He was a great dad most of the time he took me to football games in middle school. With alcohol though he was a monster.
So this is kinda a half and half I loved him when he was sober (I mean we got into fights but what teenager + Parent doesnt), and hated him when he was drunk.
Do you think that you might have similar tendencies when you drink? And the corollary - do you drink?
I don't drink, I have the potential to be a very onery drunk.
If you could do it again, is there anything you would do differently?
No, I think I would have done the same thing, however it always eats at the back of your mind, what might have been.
How does your mother feel about the situation?
She's more emotional than I am, and she still has nightmares about him. Overall shes good though.
Did your Mom receive any injuries from the incident?
Did you run and get the gun, or was it just close by so you could grab it right away? Was it a stand-off kind of situation, or did you see it happening and just react?
It happened from about 3 feet away he was standing directly in front of me with mother. Gun was in the top drawer on the left.
One thing i haven't seen you address: What was he like as sober?
He was a good dad overall, took me to football games, martial arts and that kind of thing. I still love him and I try to think about him as a different person that night, or well any night he was drunk.
did you report it to police? or did they come? was there an investigation?
I don't remember who called them there was a lot of confusion and disorientation when it happened mom or uncle called them. Took them about 5 mins to show up or so. Yes there was an investigation.
Any PTSD? How has this affected later relationships?
No, the psychiatrist told me I would have it but I never did. I did what I had to do.
Great AMA, thanks for doing this. Couple of questions: 1: What was the 'backstory' that led up to this event transpiring? 2: How did you manage to get a gun and shoot without your father harming your mother (or without the bullet causing damage to her as well)? 3: Was the court case that followed controversial?
1.Think I've covered this part unless you guys want me to go into detail on something I'm forgetting or you want me to go back further.
The gun was in the drawer right to the left of me when this happened and I am proficient with all of my firearms. It was a risky shot but I was confident in my abilities.
There was no court case, and I doubt it would have had a leg to stand on as they say.
A couple questions, if you don't mind me asking.
After the shooting happened, did your father still need to be restrained?
Did you suffer any consequences for the shooting?
Did you immediately shoot, or did you try to bargain with him? Did he say anything after you shot him?
I feel a little strange asking these questions about something so personal. Feel free to skip any of them if you are uncomfortable. Thank you for the AMA!
Yes, I had to tell him to not get up after shooting him because he was hopped up on adrenaline, my uncle then pretty much had to lay on him until the police arrived, then he commenced to cuss and threaten the police and ambulance staff.
I shot immediately, He looked up and said "You shot me?" then fell to mumbling about how my uncle was killing him and how we were all nazi's and just general other rambling.
I thought this was you when I read this headline, this is Milky :). Hope you're doing alright buddy.
Holy, shit milky? Haven't talked to you in forever man.
What kind of person was he when he was sober? Did you guys get along?
Also, had he ever seriously hurt you or your mother?
It was a courageous thing you did and I know it would've been incredibly difficult to deal with, so I hope you and your family are doing okay now.
He was a good guy overall when he was sober, It came as a big shock to some of his friends to find out what he was like when he was drunk.
No, he had never seriously hurt us before but he had threatened to.
What was your fathers reaction to you pulling out the gun, and was it an immediate pulling out and shooting, or was it a waiting to see if he would let up on your mother?
Where was your uncle in this?
Was your mom mad at you for doing that? I know sometimes in abusive situations, the abused still have an enormous amount of feelings toward their spouse no matter how cruel they are.
Thank you for doing this AMA!
It was a fluid motion of pulling and shooting, the way the knife was pointed \ toward my moms throat I wasn't about to let him hurt her.
No, mom has been very supportive thankfully, I don't know how I would have dealt with it if what you said had been the case.
So your father died in the hospital, how long did he live after the gunshot? Did he ever express remorse, either after being shot or after a previous incident, like once sobriety returned to him?
Well from prior experiences he would apologize profusely the next day. This time he never go the chance he was unconcious in the hospital until he died.
What exactly happened?
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