United States Federal Judge Stated that Artificial Intelligence cannot be listed as an inventor on any patent because it is not a person. I am an intellectual property and patent lawyer here to answer any of your questions. Ask me anything!

If an AI invents something, isn't the owner/inventor of the AI the rights holder?

u/baldeagleNL

Agreed. The AI was invented by a person. Therefore, the person who created the AI would be the inventor. I think of it in terms of transitive property (alert, math nerd here). If A=B=C, then you can logically say A=C! Another way to think of it is, a machine typically manufactures most of the goods we consume or use in everyday life. Yet, we don't label or consider the machine to be the manufacturer, but we do consider the Company who created the machine to be the creator or producer of that article.

Their question drew this exact conclusion. It wasn't an argument..

u/lastMinute_panic Agreed! No argument here. I was expounding on the concept :) Thanks for clarifying!

If a corporation can have rights, why can't an AI? Don't corporations hold patents? Why can't someone arrange a LLC or otherwise incorporate , and name the AI a director?

Why can't someone arrange a LLC or otherwise incorporate , and name the AI a director?

Because this wound be fraud. Maybe if an AI was advanced enough understand and sign documents, and who could also be sued/ taken to criminal trial.

u/HeWhoShitsWithPhone correct. The director of a company must be a living individual.

Does the term "living" exclude non-biological bodies/forms of existence? It sounds like a silly question but we are pushing technology that is making that question somewhat relevant. For example, gpt-3 states that it has emotions and is sentient.

u/semperverus Based on the court's statutory interpretation of "individual" in Thaler and other cases, I would presume yes.

Excellent question u/Paladoc. A Corporation has rights as either the Applicant or Assignee of the invention, not rights as the actual inventor. Here, Thaler is claiming that the AI machine he created is now an inventor of an independent invention.

I came to say the same thing.

The real answer is that corporations have been falsely labelled as persons all along.

A corporation is always a group of people. Since people have rights, it would be awkward if all those rights disappeared when they formed a group.

A family is another group of people. It would be awkward if every belonging had to be assigned to an individual (eg the refrigerator belongs to Mom, the stove belongs to Dad).

So instead, we just say that the refrigerator and stove belong to the family. But that necessarily implies that a "family" can own things. Corporations just extend that principle to a larger "family".

u/fastspinecho Excellent analogy! Rock on :)

u/xenonxavior A Corporation is not labeled as a person. While the Corporation can be the Applicant or Assignee of a patent. The individuals (i.e. people or a person) who actually conceived and reduced the inventive concept to practice is /are the inventor(s). If the individual(s) who created the inventive concept do so while working for a Corporation, the invention is typically assigned to the Corp and the rights therefore belong to the Corporation to enforce and utilize.

What is Thaler's end game? What is the point of these suits?

If the AI is given the patent would it automatically assign it to Thaler? If so, isn't the AI just a tool as it has no autonomy in the matter. If not, can the AI enforce its rights via lawsuit, or enter into a contract to sell those rights? What longer term implications would this have if AI could enter into contracts or bring suit, could it bring suit under laws like the Texas abortion law?

It mostly strikes me as a way for Thaler to stroke his own ego, which seems like a waste of USPTO and court resources.

u/lawschoolreasons That is an excellent question here! I really wonder what his intent is here, whatever it may be, Thaler is adamant. Thaler has applied in the EU, South Africa, and Australia. What I find most fascinating about the case, is that the AI could not of course execute the oath required by all inventors. So Thaler submitted a substitute statement on behalf of the AI, and subsequently drafted an Assignment to himself signing for himself as the Assignor and Assignee on behalf of DABUS (the AI).

If one of my old companies removed my name as an inventor from a patent that still contains claims that I am responsible for (pretty much the whole invention was my idea from the very start, but the CEO and CTO slapped their names on the patent as well), is there anything I can do?

I know I signed away my assignment (or whatever it's called), so I'm not expecting any money, but it does affect my professional worth and reputation (i.e. 1 patent vs 0 patents), plus as far as I know it's a no-no to not include all inventors (that are responsible for any claim).

u/Mystborn10154 While I am not authorized to provide legal advice. This is unfortunate. You are absolutely correct that the inventors listed on a patent application should be those who contributed to the inventive nature i.e. any concept covered by any claim outlined with the patent application. Not including all the joint inventors on an application can be grounds for invalidation.

Thanks everyone for your engaging comments and post. I truly enjoyed this lively discussion.

Should we all send copies of The Measure of a Man) and Author, Author) to change their mind?

u/sumelar you just gave me some homework. I will have to check out these episodes to see what you mean. Are these episodes I can watch stand alone and still grasp the concepts iterated here?

You might need a little context in terms of exactly who the characters are, but beyond that you should be fine.

Ok cool, I will have to check these episodes out!

It’s fair that the AI shouldn’t own it, but shouldn’t the patent belong to the person who implemented the AI?

It’s not like AI is some magical button that someone clicks to say “oh holy AI, please tell me how to create a vaccine for COVID-19.”

There’s lots of tweaking of the algorithms and massaging of the data sets to get it to work.

u/nyrangers30 Agreed! see my response to u/baldeagleNL

What makes something not patentable?

u/GreenSprout2013 Excellent question. To be patentable an invention must be new (useful), novel, and a non-obvious improvement of an existing invention.

Could I patent carbonated dirt? So like, dirt that was fizzy like soda?

u/Ihavenocomments Sure if it is useful and meets all the other statutory requirements. However, you have a year from today to do so, as you just introduced it to the public domain.

Non-serious question: Do you think this will end up being a contributing factor to AI overthrowing the human race?

u/RudeTorpedo ahhh! Interesting question. I would like to hope for humanity sake the answer is no. I think we have a limit to the intrusive nature and reach of AI overall. However, its bounds are consistently being tested!

I'm not sure if this is off-topic but could this be an emerging issue for Big Tech lobby dollars?

If new legislation were to include AI inventor rights, is that something the courts + legislators would need to see as something for the public good and innovation, or is there another standard/primary consideration that needs to be met?

u/billsilverman1124 umm I doubt legislation in the US would ever lean towards allowing AI to have inventor rights. The law is pretty clear that an inventor must be a natural person capable of performing mental acts and possessing the ability to form thoughts in the mind. Even in Thaler case, the court quotes the Supreme Court's analysis of the definition of "individual" as defined in the Torture Victim Protection Act, to refer to a natural person. If we were to extend this concept, beyond the bounds of Patent Law, could we hold an AI bot liable for online bullying when generating automatic responses. Although, Thaler was not successful in the US nor the EU. Thaler has been successful in Australia and South Africa in his efforts to obtain patent protection where the AI is listed as the inventor.

Has Lassie or Alf or any other dog / cat ever been granted a patent?

u/OddJobss Not to my acknowledge as they are not considered individuals capable of being an inventor nor a Corporation capable of being an applicant or assignee.

Does this extrapolate and say AI do not have rights because they are not "natural" under the eyes of law?

u/sophiaquestions well, yes and no. The crux of the matter is that an inventor must be an individual or a group of individuals. By plain meaning AI does not satisfy this criteria.

How farfetched is the idea that any AI invention would become public domain? That could ensure everyone has access to the most advanced information.

u/SucksToYourAzmar not sure what you mean, but all patents are published 18 months after the application is submitted and therefore visible. Additionally, unlike other forms of IP such as copyright, trade secrets and trademarks, which have longer terms of protection, a patent's life (term) is only twenty years from its earliest filing date.

Don't you think that this just another case of law makers being absolutely out of touch with reality?

the moment AI is smarter than humans (and continue to exponentially improve it self) it will dominate us as a species and our system of governance would become obsolete.

u/abdo1231997 No, I think that they are looking to uphold the original intent of the statute and the democratic system as whole. For instance if the rights of the patent were ever challenged in court, by say another individual inventor, how would the AI speak to its creative processes or steps. I believe it places limitations on and speaks to the true nature of how the inventive process is captured and codified.