Hi pals! It's Smallbu Animation (Lindsay and Alex Small-Butera) and Pillowfight Games (Jo and Conrad Kreyling) here to talk about our game Later Alligator coming out on the Nintendo Switch! Ask the four of us anything!!

Gosh, I know...I know this isn't a question about Later, Alligator coming to Switch, but I gotta ask...what's it like working with Worthikids? How did he pitch Big Top Burger to you? What was your initial reaction to it?

Ian is my friend! Working with him is wonderful, he's just a really great guy and I love hanging out with him and making art with him.

Bigtop Burger he sent me the script, and I thought it was funny. Plus, he let me improv and riff a lot on the lines, which I like to do most. He's so talented and I feel very big sibling about him, so be very nice to my young friend Ian.

Hello! Big fan of this wonderful game, are there any chances for a sequel?

I think Pat's particular story has already been told, but I loved the format and we wouldn't be against making more games not unlike it in the future. Right now Alex and I are working on a movie length project, so we're going to be there the next few years making magic. I hope you'll like that too when it eventually releases!

Oh? Any hints on what it'll be about or don't want to reveal that?

It's got a Return to Oz vibe, but I won't say more :³

Whatever happened to Baman Piderman? Was it ever finished? Last update I saw was an episode from 2018 on the kickstarter

Yeah! It's still going! The last one was Baman: Noir, and there's one about 1/3 done now that's the Basement Guys art house film

Hi! Thanks for doing this AMA! 1) What was your favorite part/ the one you had the most fun making in Later Alligator? 2) HOW??? ANIMATION SO GOOD??? How long have you been doing this? And what tools did you use? It looks amazing!

HI!! Thanks for coming!!!

1) I think we're both very attached to Slick Mickey and his card game. We had a little bit too much fun there. Personally I laughed the most writing it, because as you might imagine, it's quite silly. 2) AAA thank you!! Alex an I have been animating professionally for 11 years! We use Toon Boom Harmony primarily, which is a fantastic animation program. Highly recommended. For some of the fake fine art in the game, we used Photoshop.

Hi! I’m a huge fan of your wonderful game, from Japan :D A tribute to the animation "Free!" was really interesting.

Do you have any plans to release it in Japanese?

We'd love to, honestly. I think we're going to see if the switch version does well enough to get such a thing going! I love "Free!" and the camaraderie made me cry real tears. For the team..!

The unknown character says something about an alligator long island, does this mean there are alligator versions of every place on earth?

Some places are inhabited by Crocodiles, like Crocodile Cincinnati and their famous sports team, the Crocodile Cincinnati Chompers.

Do the alligators drink Gatorade?

They drink Alligator Sport Juice.

Do the alligators and crocodiles have their own version of later alligator but possibly with humans instead of alligators?

Alligators can't make video games, that's ridiculous

Wait, who made street kiter 2 then?

me did ;)

Will we ever get to see the scene after the credits of train?

Simply pop your Train VHS into your local VCR

Hi! I made an account just to ask something. I remember there was a DDR-like machine behind Jared and the music that plays during that part has a sample that's shared with an actual song from DDR.

Was this a coincidence or is someone in the team into DDR?

I actually believe the sample is from Jet Set Radio?? 2Mello is a huge fan. I asked him for a fake DDR loop and he pulled it out in two seconds like he was literally put on this earth to make it. Cheers to that dude, he's the best.

2 questions for Smallbu:

1. What was the process of creating new characters for Later Alligator? Did you start with thinking "what part of pat's family is this character of?" or just come up with designs and slot them in where they fit?

2. How was it working with the Brothers Chaps on the Stinkoman 20X6 intro?? Seriously the collab of the generation.

1. Actually, a little of both. Alex and I sat down and drew.. like a hundred gators. And then a hundred more. We probably ended up drawing.. wow, like way too many, HAHA. I knew what characters were needed, so we drew with that in mind, but some of them were just kismet from sketches too, that got later molded to fit someone we needed.
2. The Chaps are our friends and I love them both so much. I cannot say enough good things about them ever, and we still have Mario Kart nights together. We met them a few years ago at a conference for media, and became fast friends. They're just wonderful, truly.

Hey y'all, I'd love to hear about how the conceptualization / early design phase of the project worked as an interactive animation. How'd you figure out the scope and intent of the experience balancing the animation with gameplay? Was it primarily storyboards? Mind maps / conspiracy boards with red string? How'd ya come up with this amazing idea???

So excited to share the game again with folks via the Switch release!! Thanks & Congrats!

A lot of this, as I'm sure Jo and Conrad would confirm, was kind of seat of our pants. Pillowfight hadn't made a game particularly like this one before, and Alex and I had never made a game at all-- so a lot of it was figure it out as we go. Initially, we'd send funny sketches and animations over to Pillowfight to pitch them game stuff conceptually, and we'd go from there. It all came together surprisingly fast and smooth through team mind meld. Everyone was just kind of on the same page with all the whacky stuff and experimentation conceptually. The idea of the game itself game to me quite at once, and I recorded myself mapping it out verbally and sent it to Jo and Conrad. Surprisingly, they still said yes.

We started concepting for the game in person, when we could laugh and brainstorm with abandon. After we moved further apart, we did a lot of concepting by passing sketches and movie clips back and forth, explaining how we thought games would work. A lot of our games started out with an alligator sketch from the SmallBus and a silly design sketch from Pillow Fight like this one.

We'd pass ideas back and forth until creative had enough to animate, and then dev would build around the art!

There was. So much art.

ADULT FAILURE

Will Pat ever finish his website?

Never. Never ever.

So why did you create the majima-insert "The Knife?"

My friend Yuko loves Yakuza, and Majima. Truthfully I just wanted to say, HEY YUKO!! Basically. I also thought the idea of him being sort of there but not quite was confusing and weird, which made me laugh.

I mean I definitely do appreciate his inclusion after playing yakuza lol. Plus the sudden dating simulator is a phenomenal surprise and very cute.

The dating Sim I had in mind pretty early on, specifically the horrific art change. It's also a nod to Pillowfight since that was their specialty, at the time.

It's really such a huge surprise and art change completely sells it. Such an incredible shock that I've yet to see topped lmao.

Whenever I watched people streaming get to that part, their screams added two years onto my life.

Do you think Pat and the main character had any romantic feelings for each other?

I think that is up to you, since you act as the main character :⁾

Does Pat have a canon sexuality? If so, what is it?

Pat doesn't have a canon sexuality, since he doesn't manage to bumble into romance in the game. I think if he were to crush on anyone though, it'd be that extremely visible Player character. What a hot ticket, that one.

As someone who does have a crush on Pat this is perfect, thank you.

Go get em, literal tiger.

Big fan! Where did the idea for Later Alligator's plot and style come from?

I've been drawing Pat the Alligator for a long while, though he used to have a cowboy hat. I'm not very good at drawing animals, which is a running joke, so I draw really silly ones. It sort of sprung out of Zeus's skull form there, like a really anxious and weird Athena. The idea stems from wanting to play with subversion and expectations. I think it's really funny to lead people along in a narrative, lol. In my opinion, that's how to get the biggest laughs in things.

im having the hardest time finding it but i am remembering a short animation of a hatted alligator doing a triumphant dance to a neil cicierega song? very vague description! but that couldve been pat?? how nice

THAT WAS PROTO-PAT!!

it's always interesting to hear about these things, thanks for the reply!

Thanks for asking!!

I don't think I've laughed harder at a game before playing Later Alligator. Do you all have any stories about writing this game's humor that you'd be willing to share?

Sure!

My main thing when I developed the writing style for the game was subversion of expectations, and expanding on dialogue to this effect. I wanted to keep catching the player off guard with where these conversations would go. The ole bait and switch, as it were. Playing with expectations leaves people really vulnerable to comedy, because you surprise them. Surprising someone; going against what they assumed, is what makes people laugh the most in my experience. So I'd write things where a character would say something, expand upon it slightly weird in the next box, then bring it to a strange conclusion in the last text. There's a lot of the game that's toying with you, in ways. In the sense of, "Oh I know what's happening here", but then throws it out the window. I love doing stuff like that!

Was including prehistoric crocodiles/alligators ever crossed your minds when designing characters? I'd love to see some wacky caricatures of Stomatosuchus and the like one day!

That sounds COOL. It hadn't, but I'd love to see how that would look. Perhaps in the Alligator Museum of Natural History.

Just here to say I absolutely adore the game. It's so goddamn creative and funny. Thank you!

What the hell is up with cousin Marty, though? He is absolutely horrifying and I keep wondering if he's included in every grill set, or if this one is just defective?

MARTY!!!!!!!!!

He's not their cousin. He just lives in the grill. Hard to find a good place in ANYC in this economy.

When it comes out for the switch is it a download or a physical game? Either way I can't wait to buy and I got another job today so today is a really good day. I also love your design of the subway trains.

Congrats on the new job! It'll be available on the e-shop for $18, and the physical edition is now available for preorder at Fangamer!

YEAHH!!!!!!!

I loved your performances in Bigtop Burger! It seemed like a lot of the dialogue was improvised or riffed, what was that process like?

Thank you! Ian had everyone record the lines a few different ways, including letting me riff a bit which is great. This also seems true for Chris Flemming, who was deffo riffing over there, lol

Are the Daffodil shorts improvised? I love them!

PARTIALLY. The secret is I write down a couple lines of where it needs to go, then meander around them any way I want. So halvsies, is the true answer.

What was the inspiration for Later Alligator as a game?

Faking having seen the Godfather, and the idea that saying Alligator too many times is very funny.

Hello, really love your animations and silly croc game. My Qs are 1. What's your favorite animated film? 2. Are you interested in anime? The Majima dating sim had me rolling. 3. When did you start considering your art to be professional and move on from the amateur stage?

• My favorite animated film is Night On the Galactic Railroad. Alex's favorite is Ghost in the shell

*We love anime, as if probably pretty obvious in the game itself. The Majima wink is actually just because I love my friend Yuko, who loves Majima and I wanted to make her laugh. It worked!

*About 11 years ago Alex and I graduated art college, since we're both in our mid thirties now. From there, we both went pretty quick into professional jobs, so it was a necessity from early on to reach a professional level of content creation. Now though, we work for ourselves, and just make the art we like.

any tips for writing charming characters or just characters in general? I love the characters in later alligator and i was wondering how you came up with so many distinct ideas for all of them!

I think for me, it always comes down to being specific. I think a lot of people fall into the trap of characters saying more general things to move a story along, or to be part of an arch-type of character. For me, I try to make characters have very specific, human thoughts, traits, ways of speaking, ect. Everyone is different, and getting into the specifics of what makes people, people is a great way to imbue even really silly characters with life. Try to make someone multifaceted, even if they're just there for exposition even.

Any more plans for the SuperGo rangers?

OH HO!!!! Yes, we love animating them. Look for more of them in the future for CERTAIN.

Hi guys! Love your animations, they inspire me a ton! Ok here's my question: How did y'all land on your iconic artstyle? It just seems so seamless :-0

Hi! Thank you so much!

ICONIC, wow, you I like LOL. Over time, Alex and I had to learn to draw in MANY different styles, both from working together and working on lots of different IPs from diff animated stuff. Later Alligator sprung from the many silly alligator (and horses, actually) sketches I've done over time. It's a goofballs style, and fairly easy to draw, which is important when you're just two animation guys animating a whole game. We both got really good at designing them, lol

Hi! Major fan of this game you have sent from the Heavens to cleanse my mind of unwanted stress. As a rough estimate, and I mean rough and does not have to be accurate at all, how many gators did you draw for this game including background gators and the Ouija board gators?

Oh no OH NO probably a few hundred! Including NPCs and general background inhabiting gators. Plus unused gators. Many, many gator....

Bit of an out there question but my introduction to you guys was baman and piderman on the weird 3ds video thing that I watched religiously when I was like 8, I'm just interested how in the heck your amazing cartoon ended up on there?

Hm, I believe that was some kind of youtube deal nintendo had with some youtube heavy hitters at the time? Like Mondomedia (baman Piderman) and College Humor (Dinosaur office). I have no idea why it was there but I am glad, lol

Is there gonna be anymore stories from Alligator New York City?

looks wistfully into the middle distance. Perhaps.. one day...

Are you hiring 👀?

These ones are always funny to me-- we're two guys and we generally don't hire. Because we're just two guys. Just two cool guys, making their way in the world.

Hello devs, Is Pat's personality related to anyone or anything?

After I wrote Pat I realized I'm Pat, and that gave me a lot to think about tbh.

Hello!! I've followed your work for years now and everything you guys do has been a massive inspiration for me, so thank you!! I've really been looking forward to the movie you guys are making, but I'm curious: did you hide any easter eggs references to the film in Later Alligator that will make sense once the movie comes out?

Hi!!! Thank you so much for the kind words. We actually did NOT hide any movie easter eggs in the game, since Later Alligator was mostly made before the movie. DOH. There is a Baman Piderman reference though :D

Hi there, Huge fan! :)! 1) Thank you for all of your hard work and dedication. I Love this game and its soundtrack so much! 2) Was it an idea from the start to put so many amazing references in this game, or did they sort of come through as you were developing/animating/scoring it? I love Gentle Lorenzo's game,as well as as Sweet Geraldine and her Claw Machine Scheme!

Hi!! Hm, I think it sort of evolved naturally, since conceptually it's kind of.. real life referential, in a way. Alligator alternate universe. It's also real fun to make fun of weird stuff you like. Try it out.

What's this big 'something's coming' today that's got all these exciting little Pat animations coming out?

Do you think you'll ever do something like Pat visiting Crocodile Chicago? No reason for Pat to only have one story, since he's such a fun character.

And, any chance you'll ever open up for small animation commissions? I'd love to get something in your sweet style, the whole game got me thirsty for it.

Oh, they were for the announcement today! It'll also be coming out on our twitter today as a larger short, so check that out if you want! No presh, precious. You should write about Pat visiting you and send it to me. I'll read it, I will. I'm afraid we aren't open for commissions since we're working full time on our film, but I really appreciate you thinking of us!

What made you choose alligators as the main focus of the game?

They're kind of funny, aren't they?

Hello, huge fan! LA brought me a lot of genuine delight this year. Question: I know that there was a D&D mini game cut from the game due to time...will we see it in the switch port?

OH I WISH. We just got way over our head with that one. There was actually a second version of the game that Jo concepted too that involved conspiracy theory youtubin', but ultimately we had to focus on a bunch of other stuff in the game. Derry and Pat still play weekly DnD though.

Oh to be a fly on the wall for those games. Thanks for the reply, can't wait to play the game on Switch!!!

I hope you enjoy!!

Well I suppose I'll start with a few questions that I hope I can ask at once. Not part of the questions but this looks friggin' wonderful. Are the lot of you furries or not really? What inspired you to make it? What'll be the cost for the switch port? What else have you all worked on that we can check out and watch and/or play and/or read?

Thank you so much! -We are not furries but I have met furries and they're really nice and fluffy. I do enjoy drawing silly animals, however. -Later Alligator was inspired by my perception of Alex's Italian family and of New York City, which terrifies me when I am there. Also by Professor Layton! -The switch port is 18 dollar bucks -Alex and I make a lot of stuff. Tv stuff like episodes of Adventure Time, Clarence, ect. A web series called Baman Piderman. Lot's of shorts, ect. Ypu can find most of our stuff on our website portal, Smallbu.com. I HOPE YOU ENJOY THEM!!

Hello, big fan of the game and I can't wait to see the new content! I'm aware Pat's character has been around long before the game, but was he inspired by anyone in particular, be they real person or fictional? The same goes for any other gator if you can recall their inspirations.

I'm gonna come clean and say Pat is me (Lindsay) in a lot of ways. I have an anxiety disorder and PTSD (WHOA IS THIS GETTING TOO REAL), so I deal with anxiety and fear a lot in my life. I'm not afraid I am going to get murdered, or socially, like Pat is, but we are soul bonded, that Gator and I.

Aiden the crystal guy is lampooning Alex so hard that it is downright scathing. Joanie has hints of my friend Cal. A lot of characters are based on strangers I've had odd encounters with throughout my life. The world is a big, strange place.

What is your first step in creating a character? Is there a personality sheet first or do you have a certain look in your mind before you develop this character further?

For Later Alligator, the character's evolved distinctly from necessity on how to move the story along, or through mini-game ideas we had that we thought would be "funny". Generally though as a writer, I really like fleshing out even throw away characters with some depth. It's a fun puzzle to have just a little time with someone or a couple lines, but figure out how to make them have some kind of depth/humanity. I don't make sheets, but I play around in my own word document, having fake conversations with characters to flesh them out. Ha ha ha I'm not ha ha lonely ha ha!!!!!!1

I apologize because this isn’t related (though I am super excited for the game!), but how was your experience working with Worthikids?

I did answer this above but I will take this moment to say again, I love Ian. He is lovely.

The switch version will get more content? if it get more content than the PC version. Will the PC version get an update or DLC?

Yes! There's brand new content, and the PC versions will be updated with it all by May.

Not really alligator-related, but I remember Alex posting about how he liked the style of Gianni's Milonogiannis a while back. Any chance you guys have spoken with him about collaborating? Any plans for cyber-punky animation in the future?

Love your stuff, so glad you guys are killing it as a small studio!

We haven't, since we're wrapped up working on a feature film right now and can't collab with anyone at the moment, but maybe someday ;)

That's exciting! Looking forward to it!

Are there any animated features (movies, tv shows, shorts, whatever) you've seen recently that you were impressed by or that you'd recommend?

HM!!! I've been revisiting Mind Game, and Yuuasa in general. Highly recommend anything by him, or Science Saru.

1) Were there any characters or subplots that didn't quite make the final game, that you're willing to spill the beans on?

2) Can you give Pat a hug for me? I think he needs it thanks

1) Nervous Derry originally had a mini-game. First it was reading about his DnD campaign with Pat, then it was about him being a conspiracy theory youtuber. Sadly, there just wasn't enough time.

2) I hug Pat every day and he feels all the love in the world including yours.

How come you guys haven't pitched this concept and the artstyle for an actual cartoon that airs on TV? I see a great potential there. Also I really, really liked your game :D

Well, that stuff is complicated. Working with larger companies has its pros and cons. Where I feel with SmallBu that I am at, is that I want to pursue making art. Keeping it smaller helps me control that, and we make what we really feel without meddling. I've worked in TV in the past and I do like it, but what I am mostly interested in at the moment is independent works like Later Alligator, or the film we're working on now. That may change someday though!