IamA former aerospace engineer turned full time musician thanks to modern streaming services like Spotify and Apple Music. AMA!

If a giant meteor was about to hit earth and it could only be destroyed by the power of music, would it be easier to teach aerospace engineer to be astronaut or teach astronaut to be killer musician ?

The Armageddon trailer gave me an existential crisis growing up because my dad said "if this really happened we'd all just die." Thanks dad.

And from my experience, a great deal of aerospace engineers are also musicians which is pretty cool. I think engineers are generally just passionate people and like figuring shit out, music being one of them.

So I think it'd be easier to teach music to an astronaut, and that we'd all die if we sent up musicians unless that musician happened to be an engineer (please someone send me to space).

SHOW ME WHAT YOU GOT

I LIKE WHAT YOU GOT

How did you ever survive aerodynamics in college?

P.s.: I have an aerodynamics test tommorow. I swear to God, I'll rip my eyes out if I read "vortex flow" one more time.

Good luck on your exam tomorrow!

And I survived via a lot of beer, a lot of studying, and some pretty great friends that were also in the same field. Wouldn't have made it without them.

collaborate to graduate

Oh heyyy

What advice do you have for a aerospace engineering student?

Definitely try and get some work experience before graduating. Also look at jobs you want and what skills they require and teach yourself those skills if they aren't things taught to you in school.

Also GO TO CLASS AND TAKE NOTES and ask the TA if you have questions. I was a TA and I remember all the students who came up and talked with me about any problems they had. I think that's the purpose of that job - to make sure you understand what sometimes a removed and overly educated professor mistakenly thought they explained perfectly. Things are hard and that's fine.

Good luck with your studies!

Some strange replies so far. First of all, congratulations! As a fellow musician and Engineer, I'm glad to see some art and creativity outside of the numbers.

My question is, do you think you could rely on income from music over engineering and would you want to?

Thank you! The income from music can be a bit sporadic but if there is enough interest to generate a steady and predictable income on these platforms then yes I would probably choose music over engineering. I would definitely try and maintain some sort of hobby that involves power tools and building stuff.

I find it a really interesting combination of character traits as the Aerospace industry always seems very restrictive on creativity as everything has to be to spec. Do you find yourself using your creativity as an engineer or do you have to keep that separate?

I've found working in a corporate environment that I seek out creative outlets to balance out my non creative work life.

Yes this 100%. The creative work was to keep me sane.

How big is the income disparity? i thought many artists were angry at how little the royalties from Spotify were.

I think people bash Spotify because other services like Apple Music can pay a lot more per listen. In general in order to be successful you need to be present on all of these platforms and allow your music to work for you.

I will say the golden age of music distribution (for the creator) was probably the early 90s when CDs were super cheap and piracy was uncommon. Now that people are willing to pay for Spotify and Apple Music instead of just pirate their music, we are seeing another potential golden age where people who aren't that big can make a living via these income streams.

What is your favorite Digital Audio Workstation, and what DAW would you recommend to someone who is new to editing and creating their own music but wants to start?

Oh man this question will probably cause some arguments haha.

I'm a slave to Logic Pro X because that's what I started out in, and for me once I have that muscle memory down, I don't want to try and create music while learning an entirely new interface.

If I was just starting out I'd probably learn to use Ableton since it's a lot easier to use for both live performances and for writing music. But honestly if all you care about is writing, then I think any DAW will do. Just make sure to READ the manual and legitimately learn how to use it.

Hey just wanted to say that I found your music recently and I love it. It feels so surreal finding an artist and then seeing an AMA by them shortly after, but thank you for making some great music!

So when you say that you’re a former engineer does that mean that you do music full time now? If so, when did you realize that making music could realistically be able to provide a living?

Hey thank you! It's surreal to see someone on the internet that knows my stuff haha.

I am doing music full time at the moment but it was definitely gradual. I treated it like a full time job even when I was working a full time job. Living that was really wasn't sustainable because of how many hours I was putting into both things - I was just waiting for one job to beat out the other and music won.

would you like people to remember your legacy as an aerospace engineer or a singer-songwriter?

I think unless you're Elon Musk then it's going to be pretty hard to have a legacy off of any engineering projects. That being said I think it's cooler to have a background in engineering than in music.

Also I cannot for the life of me sing. Thankfully I know how to write decent enough instrumentals but if someone told me to sing I would probably get booed off the stage immediately.

Have you ever played Kerbal Space Program?

What’s the most interesting thing about switching from a desk job to being a full time musician?

To be honest KSP is the first time when I was like "oh now all these equations actually make sense.." haha. I think everyone should play it who wants to understand concepts in that field.

Did you do any sort of special promotion of your music before being noticed? Or did you just post it online and hope for the best?

I submitted to a TON of music blogs hoping for a write up about anything I was doing. There's this site called submithub.com that gets your stuff in front of writers and blogs - I promise I am not promoting them. This is just what I used.

I know in general though it's getting harder every year to get noticed online and even these blogs are starting to feel overwhelmed.

What Made you choose music over engineering ?

It wasn't an immediate decision. Basically once music became more and more serious, I just started investing more time into it until it was like I was working two jobs.

What I like about music the most though is it helps me get shit out that I can't express in words (which sounds super cheesy and awful) but it's true. I wrote music because I was sad and alone in another country by myself and without that I probably would've gone crazy haha.

At what age you started playing the piano? I'm 21 years old and I would like to become a pro bass player, is it too late for me?

I really started getting into piano when I was around 20ish. I think it's impossible to plan to be a professional musician which is why I did it as a hobby/passion project until it randomly wasn't just that.

With that said I don't think it's too late to start learning an instrument. I think people are often discouraged because when we get older we forget how long it actually takes to learn anything new.

I think it's impossible to plan to be a professional musician which is why I did it as a hobby/passion project until it randomly wasn't just that.

Wow, perfectly put. I totally feel you on that!

I've recently come into a similar position to you, only I'm a college dropout and have been looking for a job and feeling a bit hopeless. I had a lot of free time and had always been interested in sampling and so decided to dive into making some hiphop beats.

Fast forward a year and a half (of NONSTOP music production) and I landed a couple official Spotify playlist placements! My plays skyrocketed literally overnight and it's stayed pretty steady. It's given me such a morale boost. It really is amazing what musicians can do without a music label behind them these days!

Anyway, I checked out you stuff, and your tunes are really well-made! Keep on rockin it dude. I'm always glad to see other artists making their way

Congrats on the official Spotify playlists!! That's huge and it's honestly very exciting. PM me your stuff so I can check it out and thanks for the kind words!

As a recent mechanical engineering graduate. How did you land the defense job, and do you have any tips for someone wanting to get into that field?

I think what set me apart for the defense job was my experience working in Japan. The defense contractor had several jobs located overseas and liked that I was willing to move wherever and knew I could deal with isolation.

If you don't have any experiences like that under your belt, then unfortunately you really do need to have a competitive GPA and some type of tangible proof that you can work on complex projects.

did you work for a US defense contractor in Japan or is this a Japanese defense company?

I worked for a Japanese steel company in Japan, came home, graduated, then worked for a separate US defense contractor.

Have you set up a patreon?

If yes: when did you decide to set it up and when did it kick into gear for you?

If not: why not?

Outside of just signing up for the website I haven't really done much with it. I think the reason I haven't really promoted it is because I just wanted to focus on writing and promoting my work. It just feels weird to me to ask for donations even if it's generally the best way for creators to make a living. I just have some social anxiety about promoting anything related to money haha.

Your name caught my eye cause I live in Cincy and reading your Spotify profile, the name makes sense! What made you want to move to Cincy?

I went to Cincinnati because I liked the engineering department at UC because of their co-op program! Over time though I just really enjoyed the city in general.

I’m actually a former musician myself, how do you deal with an industry that penalizes older musicians? I was part of the ska scene in Southern California in the late 80s early 90s and it was an amazing experience. I partied with John, Gwen Stafani and many others, and was an up and coming singer myself. Unfortunately I got really into the drug portion of the life style and it began to mess up my performances. They became less about singing and more about my art, which heavily featured my genitals. People would complain that they would buy tickets to a show and I wouldn’t sing and instead showed my genitals. Tragedy struck when the LA riots broke out and I mistakenly believed showing my privates would ease tensions. Shortly after arriving in LA I became showing rioters my privates and a very large black man punched me directly in balls. The pain was so bad though that it helped me quit drugs. I found that man years later and we became friends to this day

I honestly was waiting for this story to end with "then in 1998 the Undertaker threw Mankind off Hell In A Cell, and plummeted 16 ft through an announcer's table."

But dealing with how the industry penalizes older musicians - I generally just don't talk about my age and people assume I am younger than I really am thanks to how awful my facial hair grows in. Also I am pretty easy to deal with because I've had to work in pretty high stressful environments so people don't really harp on my age too much.

I hope your privates healed up nicely and are working as god intended!

This guy Reddits.

Probably too much.

What advice do you have for those of us who have never made money from our music?

I'd say to focus on why you write music and to try and really connect with what you write at an emotional level. If you can make yourself feel something from your music then maybe other people will get that feeling too. If not, then that's fine because you are able to do something that helps you as a person deal with whatever is going on in your life.

Brian may?

I wish man.

Do you play any local open-mic's or Jam sessions in your area to help perfect your craft, pickup tips?

What was your motivation to quit being an engineer pursue Music full-time?

I actually just played with friends and bounced ideas off of them instead of having to go through the embarrassing process of being ridiculed publicly.

My motivation was directly correlated to the job I was currently working at the time. Because it was defense related the workplace didn't have any windows and didn't allow cell phone service. I felt pretty isolated which is something I didn't want for a workplace - but I also didn't want to stop without going into something that I actually loved.

What did engineering taught you that you can now apply to music and to being an artist?

Really just how to work hard and figure out any roadblocks in production. I used to spend hours on engineering projects in college and now I have the same work ethic but instead for music.

Is the Earth flat?

No but great question. Hope this ends the debate once and for all.

OTR as in Over the Rhine?

I really do miss Cincinnati, /u/HarambesAlive

Why would you abandon a dream career for music? I dont mean to come of as rude, but i think thats a crazy choice. I'd absolutely love to be smart enough to be an aerospace engineer.

Hey it's a legitimate question and I don't think it's rude to ask. I think I just say yes to things that aren't normal. When I left for Japan, everyone was like "why would you live in another country and move away from your family and friends?" And it was a hard choice but I think I made the right one.

I don't know if it's because I'm just looking for something else in life or what but I have to keep myself busy else I go crazy. That is the same with this project. I honestly don't know exactly what drives me to keep things like this going, I just know that I always will.

You mention guitar and piano but it seems your music is remixes? How did you get the solo tracks to do that? Or maybe I'm just missing something.

Most of my remixes are 100% original instrumentals that I create myself with just the other artists' vocals on top. For the Petit Biscuit remix I created, I just used his melody and vocal chops. Piano and guitar help me create those instrumentals!

I'm kind of the reverse. Toured with my band across the US, put out some albums, then got my degree and now I'm working for a government space agency as an aero engineer. My question is how does it feel to leave the business aside? does your music now seem like work?

Wow we really are opposites haha that's awesome. Yeah sometimes the music does feel like work and I dislike how a lot of the industry is more about ego than music. I do miss aero a great deal but in general I do think I'm happier now.

Do you use software to produce music? If so what do you use?

Yup I use Logic Pro X since I'm on a mac and that was the most readily available to me - but most DAWs generally do the exact same thing!

Did you grow up in Japan or another country? What are some of the cultural and social differences in Japan that could be shocking to travelers and people temporarily relocating from the US?

I grew up in Columbus, Ohio - so just a regular midwest guy. I would say the biggest cultural difference in Japan was just how clean everything was. I was having a hard time finding a trash bin on the street, and I guess it's because people there just hold onto their trash until they throw it away when they are home. Also there are like 3 different kinds of recycling and I just wasn't prepared for anything.

I actually was a last minute replacement in the program because the person who was supposed to go (who had all the training) decided to drop out - then two weeks later I'm in Japan with a relative Japanese social intelligence of a toddler. So honestly everything was a huge shock for me.

That’s pretty cool I have to admit. Hey I’m Steven and I’m a rising senior in high school (USA) looking for what to study in college. I’ve pretty much decided to go for aerospace engineering with an ultimate goal to work for SpaceX. I’m taking some summer courses in General Engineering to dip my toes into that field (today was my first day, I’m exhausted).

Sooo my question: Would you say going for an Undergrad. in Aerospace Engineering and then some type of Grad. School which complements my Undergrad. be worth it financially? I’d absolutely love to study engineering but I’m scared I’ll be fucked (excuse me) in the long run.

Thanks - Steven.

SpaceX is a great company doing some amazing things. To be honest I'd first focus on what you'll do in undergrad that will set you apart from everyone else. I wouldn't start thinking about graduate school just yet haha.

While in undergrad, really make sure you understand all the math that goes into aero engineering and then get some internships under your belt. After that I'm sure you'll do great!

Good luck!

EDIT: ALSO GO TO CLASS

Yo good for you, I'm glad you're doing what you love! So I'm like the exact opposite, I'm a musician and I really want one day to work with renewable energy and aerospace. Any tips about the aerospace/engineering workforce? I've had a hard time trying to find entry level positions into the industry and school isn't an option at the moment for me but I plan on getting back in soon.

Thank you! This is hard to say for me, but generally in the aero sector you need a bachelor in that field or even sometimes a graduate degree if you want to work at places like NASA or SpaceX. I would focus on getting your ducks in a row for an aerospace/mechanical engineering degree if that is something you want to get in to! In the mean time if you can learn some programming like C++ or even just MATLAB that would help a lot.

Thanks a lot for your reply! Every little bit of info I can get on my goals is very useful at this point. I've done some C++ programming before for high school robotics so I'll definitely brush up on that in the meantime. What about electrical engineering degrees, are those looked at as well or no? I did two semesters towards that back in 2014 and then fin aid got messed up.

I think EEs are the most valuable in the industry if you want to do something with programming, control, or avionics.

Dang man I don't know how you managed to create a music career and an aerospace career at the same time, finding your sound and mastering the tools took me all my energy and focus over the last few years. Props to you man, you're a brilliant person and musician!

Was it that Petite Biscuit remix that opened the opportunities for you? Because it was very much the same for me. Spotify, Youtube, and commercial licensing has been like winning the lottery the last couple of years, I'm so stoked that I managed to get my foot in the door with that huge tune, especially as the streaming services really exploded.

Much love man, stoked to see this AMA getting so much attention !!

Oh hey it's Manatee Commune! I really love your Petit Biscuit remix man! For me it was my Mickey Valen remix which came out about 4 months earlier and that's how I was even able to get the Petit thing.

You said it perfectly though, it's almost like winning the lottery. Also surprised this got so much attention haha. Thank you for the kind words! Also, if you ever play in Atlanta I'm going to your show!

I‘ve always wondered how exactly the payment process works for musicians who have their works up on these streaming platforms. Do you get paid per listen or how exactly does it work?

The payments are monthly for some and quarterly for others but it's actually pretty behind the current calendar date. There's usually a distribution company that counts every listen and download then issues a check. There are other things too like publication royalties that can get a bit complicated.

Hi! Quick question: Did you have any prior production or music theory experience? I'm currently studying Aerospace Engineering and REALLY love music but with no formal music education, I'm struggling to properly learn music theory. Any tips?

I had no formal education with music or production. I'd say try to learn an instrument first - especially something like piano - since DAWs use the "piano roll" for things like midi and synthesizers. Piano can really help you visualize the music theory involved with production.

Any advice for a student looking to land an internship? How did you find your internship in Japan?

My university has an international co-op program so if yours has anything similar to that then I would for sure apply. In general though I think most universities have co-op programs with companies that are local or just within the same state.

Im starting mechanical/aerospace engineering this fall in college. Whats your favorite and least favorite parts about your engineering program?

E: also who are your favorite artists/musicians? Non-musically I recommend Tom Sachs, he has an engineering degree and now makes amazing visual art taking lots from his education.

My favorite part of engineering school was learning how to use MATLAB and then applying all the math I learned to create physics based simulations for things like double pendulums. My least favorite part was the process of understanding all that math haha.

Favorite artists are people like ODESZA, Kasbo, Petit Biscuit! Thanks I'll check out Tom - always looking for artists who do cool things!

I just wanted to ask you how you live with the fact that you will always be inferior to Mechanical Engineers?

Jk jk we all know we're inferior to EE's :(

THOSE DAMN EE's LOOKING DOWN ON US FROM THEIR IVORY TOWERS.

Just got a job as a systems engineer at The big missile company in MA!

What’s something you miss about AE?

Congrats on the job! I miss working on simulation design because it's awesome creating something in a computer with real dynamics. I created a double pendulum simulation a few years that detailed chaotic motion which was just awesome.

(Keep up the great work, loving the music!) I am an undergraduate student in the US who is going to be graduating this year. I'm a bit scared for the future and what I want to do (although university is 100% the next step). I have a passion for astronomical studies and space discovery. The problem is that I am terrible at math despite trying a multitude of methods to help myself and at this point its safe to say I'd never be able to get a PhD. I also have the same amount of passion for music. Interested in music theory and producing music, I've been making stuff "amateurly" for a while and I love it but I don't feel like its safe to choose music as a career field. From your experience, I would like to know if you have any advice for what I should do for my future?

Thank you! I said this in another post but I'll repeat it here, I'd say in general it's impossible to predict that one will have a successful music career. I focused on writing to help me deal with things that I couldn't express out loud and is still why I do it.

As for being on the fence with your PhD, I think after a certain point all things that are hard to understand really just take time and energy to study it and practice it. Things that are hard will never come naturally to anyone, and to those who say it was "easy", they are probably exaggerating their abilities haha.

I just found you on Soundcloud and I've been digging it, you sound similar to Odesza.

My question would be - what's takes more time, learning to be a pilot or learning how to make music?

ODESZA is life. I was never a pilot but my roommate is a pilot for the air force. I'd say to be a good pilot, which is basically held to the same standard as being a phenomenal anything else, would require more time than just learning how to make music. I hope so at least, because our lives depend on it!

What is wrong with you? Are you willing to give up such a good dignified intellectual job as an aerospace engineer to be a crappy poor paying musician? Seriously Why?

I'll answer your question because it's a legitimate one even if it's framed in a somewhat negative manner haha. I think your tone is a bit angry and I don't really know why, but I hope everything is good on your end. So here are my reasons:

1. I know I can go back into the aerospace industry whenever I want because I just can. I know it's an option.

2. I won't ever get this opportunity again with music so after this is over that's it for the ol music thing.

3. It makes me happy and even if it dies, I'll be happier at a desk job knowing that I tried. Something I made is out there that hopefully makes other people happy too.

Hey OTR. I discovered you about 6 months ago. You actually have quickly became my new biggest artist to watch out for in 2018-2019. I create weekly playlists of good electronic music and your song hit the #1 spot once!

I think your music is incredibly niche but beautiful. It’s like stumbling upon a pearl. Scenes from a midnight movie is a stroke of genius (with an unfortunately spooky name, but I get it). Stoned is perfectly delicate and sensual.

It’s so interesting to hear that you live in Japan because I think your style is similar to Odesza and they definitely have Japanese influences too. There’s undoubtedly a bit of flume there as well; my friends like to call you digestible flume. Maybe even a bit Petit Biscuit/Jai Wolf/Foreign Family Collective.

My 2 questions. (1) How’d you get your name OTR? (2) What’s on the horizon? In 1 year? In 3?

Big thanks from a huge fan! I know you’re not touring on west coast yet (I’ve looked), but please come out to LA and I’ll get all my friends to show up for you! You’ve got talent. Hope you continue to shine.

And please please please release more music!!

Haha digestible Flume! I'm never going to forget that so tell your friends that I said thank you for the laugh. To answer your questions:

1. I got the name OTR from the area of Cincinnati that I lived in when I started the project. There's a lot to learn about that area so check it out!

2. Right now I'm releasing an EP later this month but am currently working on some music with some amazing people so stay tuned!

Really appreciate the great questions and the support though. I haven't toured yet but I will be out in LA as soon as possible! Cheers!

How did the blogger find your music?

I submitted my music via submithub.com and then they wrote about it after it being approved!

What company did you work for as an engineer? Is aerospace engineering a career with a lot of upwards mobility?

I can't tell if the second part of your question is an intended pun or not haha. I don't want to say which company I worked for but it was in defense. Generally there is a lot to do any several different types of jobs all under the same umbrella.

How do you get vocals? Do you pay someone to sing?

The best way to get vocals is to just ask someone who is a singer at your level to write with you! Believe it or not I only had like 100 soundcloud followers when I hit up Kelsie Rimmer for one of my songs and she was really easy to work with.

Im currently an aerospace engineer but I can imagine my career working in eSports as a personality. I stream all of the time but I think my biggest shortfall is that I don't take the time to curate my content and post it on youtube to be consumed.

How did you get past the mental block of producing your work and actually creating songs not just for yourself but for consumers? If I'm able to get past that block and putting time aside to create content, I thnk skys the limit.

I think eSports is just as tough if not tougher to get into than music but I think the approach to each are probably similar.

You said it perfectly though, really it's just taking the time to just do what you want to do. Find the effort in yourself to not put on netflix or youtube, and to just do the thing haha. You either set reasonable goals (key word being reasonable) for yourself and take it seriously, or you understand that it's a hobby and find enjoyment out of it that way.

Is Aerospace or Mechanical a better degree to pursue if I eventually want to work in fields that are space related?

Awesome question. I 100% feel like the safest bet is to go with mechanical but maybe take a few aero courses to help pad the resume. I don't think they discriminate against the mech guys at all and some jobs even call for someone with a mech degree.

Just found your remix of Stoned by Bondage a couple of months ago and been jamming to it ever since. As someone in the engineering field, I often feel like I don’t often see too many people creating something outside of their respective field. Do you feel like this is a trend you see or worry about? I feel like having another creative hobby like music can really change the way you approach problems.

Also, do you ever struggle to get out of loops when your writing music or is this just me? Lol

Glad you like the Blondage track! And to answer your question - yeah I do think this is a trend that I do see in that field. I was actually really only friends with the people in my field who also did music or had another hobby (like bikes or just building things for fun). I do agree with you that having that hobby can really change how you approach problems.

I think everyone struggles to get out of the 8 bar loop haha, although generally if I get in the zone and get out of the loop without even really thinking about it, I know it'll be a good song. Cheers man.

When do you think humans will stop trying to conquer the universe and just agree to settle down and let the species die?

Honestly I just want humans to get to mars and then after that I'd be cool if we'd chill the hell out.