IamA Video and Audio Forensic Expert who has consulted on cases like Trayvon Martin, Malaysia Airlines Flight 307, and the JFK Tapes AMA!

Hi Edward. Has there ever been a tape that managed to test the detachment you need to keep to do your job?

Yes. Unfortunately I can't discuss it because it is confidential. I will say it is a recording of a murder play by play by a serial killer.

Is seeing something like that different than, say, footage of an accident? I am just wondering if seeing the depths of human evil takes a great toll on you than, say, a plane crash––which might have more carnage but reveal far less about the dark side of humanity. Also, how do you cope?

After 34 years I have managed to leave my work at the office. Some say I'm thick skinned and tenderhearted. Video certainly adds an element that audio alone does not have.

Can you comment on if the suspect has been identified or arrested? Or if this was recent?

Yes, they are serving a triple life sentence. I cannot comment on the time, but they have been identified and are currently incarcerated.

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Yes. The Air Force One audio tapes from the day JFK was assassinated.

Regardless of the changes that they made (I’m sure there are things we will never know) do you think that the changes they made were necessary to protect the people for, “the greater good”? Or, and I’ll just say it, was it a cover up of some sort?

I believe it was both.

what about the tapes was edited?

I don't know what was removed.

Have you ever come across a case where someone attempted to add something in, rather than or in addition to removing something

All of the time!

Was it like chunks of the timecode missing throughout conversations, or whole conversations removed?

In other words, are many small pieces missing or fewer, longer sections?

I do not know. All I can tell is that there are edits.

I think what's missing from the JFK Air Force recording has to do with decisions that government officials were making with regard to: not performing an autopsy in Texas, coordination with scheduling an autopsy when the plane returned, the autopsy was overseen by government officials instead of a 3rd party hospital.

What was being communicated by AF1 during the time of the assassination that needed your expertise?

The recording began with AF1 on its way to Japan, and that part of the AF1 recording was part of the audio that was given to me. Minutes before the assassination took place.

In your 34 years of work, what it the weirdest or strangest thing you learned in your time?

Last year I worked on a case that involved a cockroach farm and employee theft of a patented process and the product that were cockroaches. We had surveillance video of an employee that worked for the company stealing out of the back door. My client recovered damages in a civil litigation.

How does one enter the field of video and audio forensics? sounds like an interesting career.

While having a degree in criminal justice or forensics is helpful, having knowledge of audio and digital software is important as well as having an unbiased viewpoint.

What kind of software is used in forensics? I'm assuming it's specialty and not the industry standards for audio and video

Two of my favorites are: Izatope RX and Omnivore made by Techsmith. A lot of our other programs are Adobe products with forensic plug ins.

How do yoy feel about CEDAR? I took an audio restoration and forensics class at my university and loved what CEDAR could accomplish. Especially the cross latis filter. RX is pretty incredible too though.

I have never used it but I have heard good things about it. Technology is changing every day and I love hearing about programs that are helping forensic investigators. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I will check it out.

Do you have to pay that premium yearly fee?

Yes :(.

Hi Edward! How do you feel about crime dramas that incorporate your line of work into their plots? How accurate do they tend to be? For example, I watched Bones as a kid and they were always discovering crucial information by repairing and listening to recordings from broken cell phones and destroyed audio files. Is this realistic?

No, I call it "The Hollywood Effect". Special effects and creative script writing make for great drama in a fictional show.

Knowing the stupidly unreal situations from TV/movies, what's the coolest actual "zoom and enhance" moment you've had from your career?

We had a client in LA who was a victim of a hit and run. He was towing a classic car and when the pickup truck rear ended him, his license plate left a mirror image impression on the trunk of the classic car. The client scent us a picture and we were able to enhance and recover the license plate number.

Since the majority of us can sense lies through a person's visual queues in combination with how they speak, what are some tips to detect a lie solely through an audio recording?

First off, Happy Cake Day!

There's no way to detect a lie solely by listening to a persons voice. There is no scientific measurement that I am aware of to detect a lie. Forensics is a scientific based activity.

As someone with a low voice volume, I did a voice test with a local speech pathology program. They had a program that did analysis via mic/computer and it had some interesting ways to analyze the voice. Have you ever used anything like that?

No, in order to perform voice identification testing the speech needs to be audible and measurable. Low volume voice is nearly impossible to analyze forensically.

So where does that put the CVSA?

What is CVSA?

What did your work on the Trayvon Martin case reveal, that us common folk, never got to hear?

When I listened to the call Zimmerman made to the police, I can hear activity in the background that I believe would have helped the Trier of Fact. Unfortunately, this information was not revealed, and to this day it has not been released to the public.

Is there a reason that you cant reveal NOW what it was that you heard?

In case it ever ends up back in trial. I believe this information would be helpful.

Double Jeopardy?

It would be a civil case.

Just out of curiosity, do you know what reasoning was used to exclude the recording?

It doesn't seem like it would be heresay since it was the 911 call by the main suspect, with the victim possibly being heard in the background.

I would think that a 911 call involving the principals of the case would be pretty important piece of evidence to help the trier of fact reach a conclusion.

I did not watch the entire trial. I am not positive that the recordings were excluded. I am certain that the court did not have assistance analyzing either of the two critical recordings. The 911 call with the cries for help and the call Mr Zimmerman placed when he saw suspicious activity.

Can you tell us more about the activity you heard, what you might have thought was going on?

I would rather not express my observations at this point, but if you go back and listen to the recordings yourself with headphones, you will hear background noise when Zimmerman is on the phone with police. Especially before the police say not to follow Trayvon.

What do you think actually happened on MH307?

I think something technical happened causing the plane to crash into the ocean. What I'm not sure of, is why the government never presented investigation results like the FAA would here in the US. I do know that the cockpit audio recordings that were released are not complete.

What about this one: WorldViews MH370 experts think they’ve finally solved the mystery of the doomed Malaysia Airlines flight.

Summary:

“The thing that gets discussed the most is that at the point where the pilot turned the transponder off, that he depressurized the airplane, which would disable the passengers,” said Larry Vance, a veteran aircraft investigator from Canada. “He was killing himself. Unfortunately, he was killing everyone else onboard. And he did it deliberately.”

I'm not familiar with this portion of the story. It's a bit above my pay grade. Thank you for the article, I look forward to exploring it more in depth.

Is there anything in the unreleased recording that would lead one to believe anything other than a mechanical or technical defect occurred?

I would think that if the plane was in trouble, they would have tried to call someone for help. So, why is that missing?

That would depend on the nature of the technical or mechanical failure, wouldn't it?

I don't know, I am not a pilot. However if I were responsible for 200+ souls, and I thought my equipment was malfunctioning, the radio would be my best friend.

I think something technical happened causing the plane to crash into the ocean.

Is there something, in particular, in the audio evidence that leads you to this conclusion or is this opinion based mostly on other factors?

There are parts of the audio that are missing. The flight was x number of hours, but they have only released a portion of the audio. I was initially told that only the speaking parts of the communication were presented, but I was never able to examine the recording in its entirety.

Based on what you’ve seen, which conspiracy theories hold the most water and why?

That there were 2 shooters with JFK.

What are some things you found out on the Trayvon Martin case that aren’t very well known to the public?

When I listened to the call Zimmerman made to the police, I can hear activity in the background that I believe would have helped the Trier of Fact. Unfortunately, this information was not revealed, and to this day it has not been released to the public.

Can you say what kind of activity and what you think it would have helped?

I believe the activity would have helped the Trier of Fact understand Mr. Zimmermans intentions just before the point in the recording where the police ask him not to follow Trayvon. If you listen closely to the recording or Mr. Zimmerman when he calls in to report the suspicious activity, you will hear sounds in the background like wind noise when he exits his vehicle and other activity that I would prefer not to divulge in case I am ever asked by a court.

How would this kind of information be hidden in a trial? If the prosecution knew of it, and it helped their case, they would've used it. If the prosecution knew of it, and it helped the defendant, they would have a rock solid obligation to disclose it to the defense, who would've used it.

Did it get found out after the trial?

I discovered these background sounds that helped me understand Mr Zimmermans activity when I was on the prosecutions witness list just before the Daubert hearing where sound experts were not allowed to testify.

Why were sound experts not allowed to testify?

We were presented as Voice ID experts and speech is required in order to prove scientifically a positive or negative voice identification. There is no speaking or words in the cries for help. I believe the judge decided the tests could not be objective enough in her opinion.

Is the noise you speak of present in the recordings widely available online and simply was suppressed in court? Or did you have access to 'special' recordings?

It is available online.

I know you can't comment on current cases, but do you think the audio of the suspects voice in the Delphi murders could be improved? That monster needs to be caught.

 

https://youtu.be/zreCDAquAsY

 

For anyone not familiar with the case. Some monster killed two 13 year old girls on a nature trail in a very small town, then vanished. The girls got audio and video of him, but it's been over a year, and there's been no real known progress.

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2018/02/10/delphi-murders-heres-what-we-know-year-after-slayings-abby-and-libby/326442002/

I performed an analysis on these recordings and was unable to forensically enhance them for identification purposes.

What is the creepiest piece of evidence that you've discovered that you can say?

Definitely the cockroaches.

Do you know anything that you'd have to kill us if you told us?

Yes.

As an audio expert, whats your favorite kind of music ?

Classic rock!

Do you think you would make a good dance DJ?

Yes. I love music!

Wow that's fascinating, so who was screaming? Trayvon Martin or George Zimmerman? Did you have to testify at the trial?

Do you mainly work in the court systems or do you work with private individuals too?

I believe the cries for help were Trayvon Martin. Because based on my experience, when I analyzed that audio recording from the night he was killed and then heard George Zimmermans voice, and there were only two people reported to be at the location, I believe the person crying for help was Trayvon Martin. You can view my entire analysis on our YouTube Channel, Primeau Forensics.

We do work for attorneys, law enforcement, the US Government and private clients.

What do you think of Catalin Grigoras' papers and classes on the subject at UC Denver?

I went to it and found it interesting.

It's the best training institution in the world, that I know of, for continuing education in media forensics. Their masters program is the best.

Thank you for this AmA. One question, how often do you find prove or evidence and people gently ask you to keep it to yourself?

All the time!

Have you ever been told to "not view a certain tape" or "don't ask these types of questions" during a certain court case, and what was the outcome?

I have not.

Is it possible to reproduce audio when all you have is a picture of a waveform taken from a video?

Great question! It is not possible however.

Do the emergence of new, neural net backed audio-visual signal faking techniques ("deep fakes" in the redditor parlance) worry you, or do you think detection techniques will keep pace with the emergence of deception technology?

I think that is job security!

Do Citizens have the right to video tape police interactions with their cell phones?

Absolutely! Check you local laws. Citizens assist police officers when they create video recordings. Take a look at these videos for a more elaborate response:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veXhk8aqRPY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1Fkqgsz9ck

What was your verdict on the Trayvon Martin case? Who was right/wrong, or screaming?

I believe Trayvon Martin was the one screaming. My full analysis of the recording can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpH8M6tATU4

I had a forensic psychology professor that worked on Jonbenet Ramsey case. Another group did analysis on the 911 recording which revealed some discrepancy between what the family said and what actually happened (a boy being awake when they said he was asleep).

How difficult is it to to work with 911 audio recordings like this that have old audio codecs as apposed to more modern recording technology?

It is not difficult at all because we have all of the equipment in our lab necessary to analyze older recordings as well as new ones.

Would you be willing to examine the RFK shooting tape for gunshot noises?

I've already performed this analysis and there are no gunshot noises that I could detect.

Thanks for doing this AMA! What does a typical day at work for you look like? And what’s the most fun you’ve had with your job/skills?

I travel a lot for cases and enjoy that. My typical day is answering questions, authenticating and enhancing evidence that is used in litigation and recovering evidence on site in order to establish a chain of custody.

Do you ever do any analysis what your detection rate and false positive rate ? Have a third party submit audio with known ground truth of varying known common types of distortion and seeing how often you miss classify or detect?

Yes, this is called vetting. I often have my work vetted by an internal or external expert with the same qualifications as I have.

Is the shirt a result of losing a bet? On a serious note though, what case is the most interesting, to you, that you have worked on? and why?

No, it's a retro shirt from the 60's that I found in Chicago at a flea market brand new!

The JFK Air Force One recordings because I was able to hear higher quality audio recordings and observe the parts in the recording that were edited. The day I received the tapes from General Clifton estate, I was able to scientifically determine sections included in this version that were not in the version released by the LBJ library in the early 70's. This was a scientific foundation of what an edit looked like in these recordings. I subsequently was able to identify several other places in this historic recording that were removed.

How did you get hired? Was it something that you were always interested in pursuing?

I had no idea that I would end up in this career. But, the FBI found me and I have been performing forensics ever since.

what is the most vivid memory you can recall from all your cases?

High speed police chase in St Louis that ended with a fatal shooting. The reason why is because we had access to OnStar recordings that we synchronized with police dash cam video and were able to scientifically determine the events as they occurred.

What is the most difficult thing to do in forensic audio analysis?

Tell your client that you can't meet their expectations with an audio enhancement. People have audio recordings that will help their case, but the recording quality is too pore and cannot be forensically enhanced.

What T.V. shows are the worst offenders of bending the reality of forensics and police/detective work, and which shows actually do a decent job of keeping it realistic?

CSI does a decent job of keeping it realistic. In the beginning, a mentor of mine, Tom Owen, was a consultant for their producers. His job was to review scripts and make corrections so the technology was more accurate and believable.

I don't watch these shows because they lack scientific processes when formulating their opinions and results.

Have you participated in the review of any of the recordings Amazon Echos are making of unwitting people?

I have not. However, I know people that put stickers over the camera of their laptops. I think when you buy technology like this, you have to believe on some level that it is operating when you're not asking it to operate. After all, it is technology that the average person does not understand.

Do you feel like you’re there when you listen to something for a long time?

No. I look at recordings from a scientific perspective.

What case resonated with you the most?

The shooting in St Louis, MO the night of a firefighters wedding. He was shot and killed by an off duty police officer.

Have you seen the thermal video of the incident in WACO Texas that some claim shows muzzle flashes from during the fire that destroyed the complex?

No I have not.

What was your favorite case? What’s the most interesting discovery you’ve made?

I performed an evidence recovery for a bus accident where the owner of the company had deleted the recording. I was able to recover it by creating a disc image. The video we recovered clearly showed the accident and the case settled the same week. This is both my favorite and most interesting.

Have you ever created a GUI interface in visual basic with the intent of tracking an IP address?

No. I am not a computer forensic expert. However I highly recommend Garrett Discoveries out of Illinois.

Someone mentioned that it was LBJ that shot Kennedy and the "magic bullet" was really just LBJ shooting upwards toward Kennedy from a sewer/drainage hole that led to a nearby river where he made the perfect escape. What are your thoughts on this (if you've heard the story)?

What a vivid imagination! I suspect there will be all kinds of new theories around this assassination in years to come. I am of the opinion that there were two shooters.

What's your experience with the deliberate falsification of evidence? Is the software/techniques to seamlessly edit outpacing the ability of forensic experts to detect such edits?

I have a lot of experience with deliberate falsification of evidence. Some cases I discover the nature of the falsification quicker than others. It depends on the experts training and experience. Some may find it, some may not.

What do you think really happened in the office when George Costanzas left his briefcase behind? Were they lying?

I believe the attorneys knew the recorder was activated and it made for a great TV dramady.

Hi Edward what do you think about this voicemail posted in r/rbi a few weeks ago? Is it real or faked? https://www.reddit.com/r/RBI/comments/8h4zkg/discovered_terrifying_audio_from_an_old_voicemail/?utm_source=reddit-android

I have not seen this yet but will investigate it further!

How worried are you about prosecutors or investigators overstating the certainty of your findings? Like what happened with forensic hair analysis. For example, the findings of PCAST are very much at odds with public perception of how developed forensic science is. Is that troubling - that your work may be inappropriately used to convict someone?

I have never had a case where my work was used to inappropriately convict someone. It is not something that keeps me up at night.

When extracting data from mobile devices (such as cellphones), what software do you recommend? Do you also have experience with cellebrite?

I recommend Cellebrite, however I am not a cell phone forensic expert. I am qualified to extract audio and video files from cell phones. Cellebrite performs complete analysis with all data recorded.

Howdy!

What was the funniest thing you've ever heard /discovered in a recording?

A butt dial from a daughter to her mother. after forensic enhancement, I was able to prove the daughters allegations of rape were false. I cannot tell you what I heard, but let me tell you it was hysterical.

If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one there to record it, does it make a sound?

Just because there was no one there to record it doesn't mean that there wasn't anybody there to hear it. There's a high degree of probability that a mass as large as a tree is not going to down in silence.

I can answer that. I did sonar in the navy and on the first day of class the teacher said "For sound to exist that has to be a source, a medium, and a receiver. So the answer to a tree falling in the woods and nobody around is no. There's no receiver. There's no sound."

If you go back and re-read the question, it reads that no one was there to record it. It does not read that no one was there to observe and to hear.

Whats your opinion on those ghost shows where they record blank space for 10 minutes then play it back and you hear a "pshhhhh" and the host yells "PETER? HE SAID PETER!"

No comment.