IamA Patrick Burke, President of You Can Play and NHL Director of Player Safety AM(a)A! Take 3

1. Do you think there are gay players in the NHL right now?

2. How long until the NHL has an openly gay player?

3. How much money would we have to raise for YCP to get your dad to do an AMA?

1. Obviously.
2. I thought it would be over a year ago, so I'm going to stop guessing. At the draft I had two NHL coaches ask me when the hell it's going to happen. Our league isn't just ready for a gay player, we're starting to get impatient for it.
3. I'll ask him.

Not that I don't enjoy your AMA's, Patrick, but this should seriously be your next thing in conjunction with r/hockey

Yeah, just what he needs. Thirty pages of crappy jokes about Kevin Lowe and the lawsuit from internet comedians.

I mean he did promise something similar, during our Olympic Charity Challenge.

And as promised, I'm here. I said I would ask Shanny and if he couldn't I would fill in.

Anything to say about the time your dad (allegedly) tried to fight Kevin Lowe in Lake Placid?

...It's not alleged.

Hey, I love the You Can Play project and think y'all are doing great and important things. I also feel like it's having an impact.

My question- I'm a regular over at /r/hockey. I love the sub and the rules are pretty strict for commenting as far as racist, sexist or homophobic comments go- they're not tolerated and can lead to a ban. In general, it's a great community.

However, over the past week or so, we've had some trouble with people not understanding why calling Syndey Crosby "Cindy Crosby" (sexist) or calling the LA Kings the LA Queens (sexist and/or homophobic) is wrong and derogatory. Since you and your organization deal everyday explaining why it's important to make sports an all-inclusive activity and to not make people feel alienated just because of who they are, you are probably more practiced and qualified at explaining just why these comments are damaging than I am. Could you please do so, in the hopes that commenters in the sports subs will see it?

Because the implied insult in calling someone a woman is that being a woman is somehow lesser than being a man. It's a pathetic way to insult someone, and damaging to our female fans. I have four sisters, including two who are 8 and 10 years old. They should never feel like their gender makes them lesser.

Thank you, and I agree. However, when I say that to people they often counter with "you're just being way too PC" or "it's just a joke, relax" or "you're looking for something to be offended by, don't be so sensitive." At that point, I don't know what to say in response. How do you handle people who respond like that?

I don't think anyone has ever accused me of being sensitive or overly PC. If they did, I would tell them to go screw themselves.

Is it true you read HFBoards proposals and laugh at them with other NHL people? Also do any NHL players you know read the boards? Cause people are relentless there.

Yes. When I was with Philly I would sit around with scouts from other teams and say "Ok, according to this we are trading you Giroux for Alex Burrows and a conditional second. I have no idea what it is conditioned on."

Should we start a fund for a haircut for your father over in /r/hockey also? He definitely needs it!

Thank you for what you're doing with YCP!

The first time Gordie Howe met my father, he looked at the size of his head and asked, "Does your barber charge by the acre?"

Hi Patrick! As the son of gay parents and a rabid sports fan I'm grateful that the YCP initiative exists to further the inclusion of gay athletes into our society.

What do you think of Tony Dungy's recent comments stating that he wouldn't want the distraction of drafting Michael Sam?

It's the old "media circus" thing that people bring up a lot. I think we've now seen with Jason Collins that a gay athlete isn't a distraction in terms of media presence. There was a very brief media circus when Jason signed. His first game had a large number of reporters. And then, nothing. He wasn't followed around by hordes of media. His team wasn't hammered by throngs of cameras. They just played basketball.

Mike Sam got a lot of attention after he was drafted. His first day of training camp had some. And his first game, provided he makes the team, will have media attention as well. Then, what's the story? "Gay player plays third NFL game" isn't exactly hard hitting news. It's just a bullshit excuse that's been proven false.

What did your dad do with the brush you got him for Christmas?

He's putting it to use. The bristles must be made of titanium or something. Obviously we should have purchased scissors.

With the next two Fifa world cups being held in Russia in 2018 and Qatar in 2022, what can be done between then and now regarding the strongly anti-homosexual stances of the respective governments? I can't help but feel that soccer is somewhat behind other sports with regards to acceptance of LGBT athletes.

Between the Russian government, the Qatari government, and FIFA, you're dealing with arguably the world's most corrupt entities. We can stage all the protests we want, but they've been bought and paid for. Qatar is literally killing people to build a soccer stadium and no one is blinking an eye.

We are hoping to work with IGB's to put rules in place that force the IGBs to consider a country's human rights record before placing an event there.

How many people complimented Sean Monahan on his looks at World Pride?

Probably in the hundreds. It was hilarious to see how often that happened. 50 athletes marching and everyone was in love with Mono.

Just for fun, in your opinion what has been the worst GM move your dad has made?

Leaving Anaheim.

...ooooor, if that's not your favorite question, what's been the best GM move your dad's made?

Trading up for Pronger. Trading up for the twins.

Hey, thank you so much for the work you and others have been doing.

I'm guessing that you're not satisfied yet - what would be one goal you'd like to achieve?

Winning the Stanley Cup. Or meeting Anna kendrick. Not necessarily in that order.

What's the best way to help a friend dealing with depression? and if your answer is everyone is different, what would you have wanted?

For those who don't know I'm also a HUGE mental health advocate and speak a lot about my experiences with depression. http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/exclusive-patrick-burkes-battle-with-depression/

I think sometimes asking is the most important thing. I didn't always know what I wanted or needed. Some days I wanted to talk. Some days I didn't want anyone near me. It's hard on the friends and family of a depressed person. But showing a willingness to support and be there is the best thing you can do to help.

Hey Patrick,

I've been following YCP for years and remember how proud I was when the commercial aired with all the NHL players.

I'm pursuing a career in the sports industry and would love to be involved with YCP one day. Do you ever envision that YCP will get big enough to have an intern? If not, are there other ways that I can get involved with the organization?

We are working on raising the money to hire Wade a staff. Right now he is our only paid employee, and our only full time worker. We are hoping to surround him with some people that can lighten his load, and allow me to step aside even further. Ideally Wade will become President and we can hire other LGBT sports people who will fill the support roles.

Hi Patrick, thanks for doing this!

If you can say, what's the type of hit/player discipline issue that people have the widest variance of opinion on within your office?

Do you think the new helmets and/or the new safety stripe being tested in some rinks will make a difference in player safety, and will they ever make their way to the NHL?

I don't think there's a specific type of hit that causes more discussion. I think sometimes everyone just sees a play in a different way. Whether that is in terms of the level of violence to the play, the intent, or any of the other factors. I think people would be very impressed by the time and energy spent dissecting these plays to make sure the call is done correctly.

I have never seen a study that shows that helmets can reduce concussions, unfortunately. We are always looking for new, better, and safer equipment to keep our players as safe as possible. But we can't put all our hopes into a miracle equipment cure. We have to look at rules, behaviors, treatment, and technology as a whole to really address player safety.

I don't think the safety stripe makes sense at the NHL level. Our players know where the boards are.

I have a lot of opinions about intent and injuries. I'd love if you could chime in.

My beef is that the NHL suspends to injury and that's a roll of the dice. You can do what Matt Cooke did to Tyson Barrie and completely sever tendons or just make a guy sore for a shift or two, with the same intent on collisions with near-idential optics. Teams can also game the system by manipulating what they disclose w/ injuries.

Any thoughts on if this is a problem? How substantial it is? It feels like the NHL operates in a world where 'attempted ____' isn't in the vocab; you only get in trouble if you succeed in your illegal activities.

No, we don't. Per the CBA, an injury elevates the length of a suspension given to a player. But that only comes into play once we have determined that the hit itself is suspendable. If it is not, we do not make a clean hit a suspension just because someone is hurt. We have suspended players multiple times for hits that do not have an injury, and have not suspended players for clean hits that cause injury. Saying otherwise is simply false.

What is the most common answer to "Why don't you want a gay player on your team?" Is it the religion issue, the "I don't want someone staring at me" issue, or something else?

The nudity/changing/shower thing. It comes up a lot, which actually surprised me. We've never had an LGBT athlete say (even privately, as a joke) that the showers are anything other than a place to clean up after a hard day of work. It's an office, not a playground. And our athletes treat it as such.

Since you started work with YCP, what single moment stood out for you as the most encouraging/touching/important?

Also, not a question, but thank you for all your hard work and dedication to YCP and related issues. Been a hockey fan and a woman and a member of the LGBT spectrum my entire life. Those things have never felt less at odds than they do now, due in large part to the kind of work you guys do. So thanks. :)

1) I think our ability to elevate LGBT voices has been the best part of what we have done. Whether it's Jose Estevez speaking to the Toronto Blue Jays, or Nora Cothren writing for HuffPo, or Anthony Nicodemo running an LGBT event for his high school district. I think the single biggest reason there has been progress in the sports world is the numerous LGBT voices that have been discovered recently.

2) Thank you!

What's one small and one large aspect of safety in hockey that you would like to be either changed or added to the game?

Properly fitted equipment, at all levels. Tired of seeing helmets pop off because a guy doesn't want to strap it appropriately.

Do you think sports culture is inherently homophobic?

No. I think sports culture is incredibly insular and only recently has started being exposed to LGBT issues. There's a high level of ignorance regarding LGBT issues and how to handle them, but as we are seeing with athletes like Mike Sam, Brittney Griner, Jason Collins, and even high school and college athletes, the sports world is welcoming of LGBT teammates in most cases.

Are there any sports in particular you've found haven't been as receptive to YCP?

Also, the picture your, I think it was sister, posted of Pat Quinn for your dad's birthday was one of the funniest things I had seen in awhile.

No, we've had pretty great response from most sports. Some leagues seem to attack the issue in different ways and with different levels of effectiveness. But everyone seems to want to do SOMETHING to address these issues and make the sport more inclusive.

My sister, Molly, is hilarious.

There's a guy in Vero Beach Florida who works at a restaurant and claims to be Brian Burke's brother (your Uncle). Is this true?

Yeah. I forget which uncle lives there. I think John? Or Matt. My Dad has 9 brothers and sisters. I think it's John there though.

What advice would you give to someone interested in starting a charity aiming to raise awareness and change behaviour around how people with mental illness are treated and treat themselves?

Also, the girl I chased down in Boston is my wife now, are you still going to live-tweet one of our dates?

Starting a non-profit, frankly, sucks. It's a lot of hard work. Take what you think the workload is going to be. Now double it.

I have no memory of the second part of your question but I don't advise people to go around chasing each other. Unless it's some sort of game of tag.

Would you be open to having disabled athletes in your YCP videos? I play on the Canadian national powerchair football team. I think it is important for us to show that we are allies to the LGBT community and that you can play regardless of your sexual orientation. I'm sure disabled sports culture can make some strides to become more all inclusive. While we're never going to be as reputable as the NHL or other major sports leagues we can still make a difference.

Definitely. We have had disabled athletes appear in our videos before and certainly love hearing from all levels of sports.

You're pretty active on Twitter. What are your favorite Twitter accounts to follow?

I think the best hockey writers out there in terms of learning something are probably Bourne and Mirtle. Don't tell them I said that though.

As much as I appreciate your #reallifebachelor tweets, I would really like to help the Burke girls out and find you a nice ladyfriend. Preferably my own sister. Is there a nomination form I need to fill out? Likes: equality. Plays: hockey. Has: doctorate, sense of humor.

I guess tell her to tweet me? I've never had an internet stranger want me to date their family member before.

Could you shed some light on the process for making videos for YCP from various NHL teams? I'm an Avs fan and, not to call them out specifically, but it seemed odd that it took so long to get a video in support. Just curious about it.

*just a qualifier, I liked the Avs video w/ Captain Landeskog, but couldn't help reading something into the timing, them being the last.

No reason for the timing. We could probably film every player in the league at this point. It's just logistics for when players are free.

At what age did your dad teach you the word 'intense'?

better yet, when did you learn the word 'truculence'?

When the doctor slapped me, I slapped him back.

You probably can't answer this, but could you say one discipline issue this year that you would have dealt with differently than the office decided?

Our PR department yelled at me about some of my tweets. I would have not yelled at me.

During your time as a scout, how was the NCAA path vs. CHL path viewed by yourself and other scouts? Did you find that one developed a certain type of player better than the other?

I think a player should go where he is most comfortable. Most of our superstars still come out of the CHL ranks, and there is a reason for that. However, the NCAA path allows for a longer development curve. For players that might need more time to develop slowly, it's a great place to play. Players should consider the team, their coaches, and their own personal needs as a player in choosing. Some players couldn't go wrong either way. For some players, it's an incredibly important choice to make.

What are your favourite hockey memories as a scout, as a fan, and as a part of YCP?

Fan: I was a child when Gino Odjick scored on a penalty shot against the Calgary Flames. To this day it was the loudest I've ever heard an arena. It was just pure joy.

Scout: The first NHL player I ever really stepped up on was Jon Matsumoto. When he ended up playing some NHL games I felt like an accomplishment for me, personally. Since then I've been able to kind of step away from that type of personal attachment but watching Matsy skate in the show was a big deal for me.

YCP: All-star in Montreal right after we launched. We screwed up the filming times for a few players (my fault) and it got confusing for them to know where and when to be. CBC volunteered a camera crew for the next day, and Steve Stamkos and Brian Campbell both called me personally to arrange times to shoot them. It was cool to see the level of commitment from the league for something that had just started.

Are there any plans to bring the You Can Play Project to Europe?

The FA reached out to us about using some of our methods and ideas. We talked them through everything we do, step by step, and exactly how and why what we do is effective. After several weeks of conversations, they stated they felt that what they were doing was effective and that our help wasn't necessary.

I'll let the results speak for themselves on that one.

What was the best part and worst part of being a professional scout? That always seemed like a really cool job.

Do you remember watching any prospects and thinking that they were going to turn out to be amazing/nothing, and then have them become NHLers?

Be honest, did you leave the Flyers because orange really isn't your color?

1) The travel is hard. Very demanding and makes it tough to have a social life. But it was a great job.

2) I remember seeing Shayne Gostisbehere play early in his freshman year and falling in love. Our Eastern Scout (John Riley) ended up going to bat for him very strongly. I was thrilled when we took him. Obviously he's not there yet, but that was a fun one.

3) I think I can pull off orange.

Shayne Gostisbehere, eh? I'll definitely keep an eye on him then!

I also thought Michael Lee Teslak would be a player though so...

Living in Columbus, Ohio, one of the most accepting communities in the United States, I have not seen the YCP project with the Blue Jackets. Is this intentional on anyone's behalf or is YCP more universally covered under the NHL's brand, rather than individual teams? Was hoping to see YCP at a Jackets game sooner rather then later! Thank you for participating in this informative AMA!

Their mascot marched in Columbus Pride. Rick Nash, their former captain, appeared in our first video. New acquisition Scott Hartnell also appeared in our first video.

Hi Patrick.

I remember a while back you tweeting about the Hold Steady's new album, "Teeth Dreams." I love the Hold Steady. What is your favorite Hold Steady song and album?

Killer Parties for a song. Stay Positive is their best album.

Having followed you on twitter for a couple years it is easy to see that you are a big fan of ASOIAF. Are you at all excited about The World of Ice and Fire being released this fall? Any favorite crackpot theories about the saga?

Yeah, I will almost certainly get the World of Ice and Fire the second it's released.

And I love the theory that Howland Reed is the new High Septon.

Thanks for your work with the YCP project! Fantastic organization that can really make a difference.

Who or what do you think is the biggest threat to Hockey?

How do you feel about advanced statistics?

What is your favorite play by play and color commentator?

I don't know what you mean by threat to hockey.

Advanced stats are great. They add a lot to people's understanding of the game, and can be useful in both the acquisition of players and the deployment of said players. I've been doing my best to keep up with them.

Bob Cole. Jody Shelley is the rising star in our league in terms of TV work. He's exceptional. Naoko Funayama is the best sideline reporter.

what do you think of the "bear hug hit" to help with hits from behind?

there is a lot of baiting a player into hitting you then turning your back to them to draw a boarding call when they have no way to bail from the hit. if a player simply could make sure the contact was shoulder to shoulder by turning him (which is called as a hold a lot now) wouldn't that help with the situation?

was just something interesting I remember hearing earlier this season.

turns out it's your dad's idea. kinda funny coincidence. anyway could you expand on that?

I like the idea. The recent tactic players have taken to draw boarding calls is going to get somebody killed. I have no idea why our guys think diving face first into a wall when they get nudged is a smart or honorable way to play hockey.

What do you think of the sentiment that the instigator rule needs to be repealed so that players can go back to policing themselves on the ice?

I think it's a slippery slope. On the one hand, I think everyone knows there are a lot of players in the game who play dirty, run their mouths, dive, whatever. And we all know that they would not play the same way if there was a real threat that someone was going to hit them in the face. I think there's a strong appetite for curbing that type of behavior in our league, and a lot of old school people see removing the instigator as the way to do that.

But do we really want to allow players to jump each other? Do we really think those same "rats" wouldn't just take the opportunity to jump star players and force them to fight? I think we have an idealized sense of what removing the instigator will do.

Are you good?

Fuckyeah

When you come across an athlete who doesn't agree with YCP and what YCP does, how do you respond to that person? Do any of them change their stance on the issue once you work with them?

Wade Davis (our ED, a gay former NFL player), loves when players are willing to speak up and say they don't want a gay teammate. When they speak on that it means they are willing to talk, and have a conversation. It gives us specific things we can address. It allows us (well, Wade) to say "Ok, why don't you want a gay teammate?"

And our education is very effective at changing minds. Frankly, there's not a legitimate concern about having a gay teammate that we can't explain away in about thirty seconds.

Are there any specific players that you can name, that have spoken against it?

Didn't Datsyuk say something to that effect before the Olympics?

Russians will be a tough nut to crack in this debate, sadly, given the deeply religious population and government sentiment towards LGBT individuals.

Bigger issue is that their families can (and have) received threats if they speak out on anything while here in the US. I know of Russian players who are supportive but did not want to speak out in advance of Sochi for fear of retribution.

I live in Calgary and a BBurke fan from living in Van during his time there. Honestly, does he like it here in Calgary? Booming city but we need some playoffs here. Thanks.

He loves Calgary and the organization, and my sister Molly loves living there as well!

Do you think the CWHL is going to get any future support from the NHL? Or do you even think the CWHL will get to a point where it can pay its players?

I hope so on both counts. I'm assisting a group that's trying to get a team here in NYC. I think that would help the league a great deal if the logistics can be handled. Currently several CWHL teams receive support from NHL teams. I do not know if the league has plans to do anything on a league-wide level.

How do you think non-professional leagues, eg local beer hockey leagues, can change? I've often had to scold teammates using stupid language such as "that ref is gay". Sometimes I don't get very good reactions from my scoldings and end up biting my tongue for the season and finding a new team the next year.

I think using our players as an example will hopefully create some trickle down change.

I've seen some discussions with you, Cyd Zeigler, and several others regarding clashes behind the scenes between different advocacy groups over who gets "credit" for helping with major breakthroughs/coming out stories, etc. Can you offer some insight into how you work with other advocacy groups and individuals when it comes to major events, like athletes coming out?

I assume you're talking about this article. In which another "advocacy" group outed a college athlete to his campus in hopes of getting some of the PR credit. I think the article speaks for itself.

http://deadspin.com/how-one-gay-athletes-coming-out-led-to-an-activists-war-1579093298/all

Who are some of the hardest working athletes in the YCP organization? I.E. They really work hard to promote it as much as they can.

Tommy Wingels, Andy Miele, Gabe Landeskog, Andy Ference are all great at the NHL level.

Do you think with the visibility Michael Sam brings to the USA's most popular sports league, coupled with his support and his jersey sales, that it will push other leagues to shift their focus from simply being accepting of LGBT fans and players to openly courting them (with events like pride nights, participating in pride parades, etc.)?

I think some leagues were doing that before Mike came out, but I do think the financial component is something leagues are taking note of and looking to get a part of. Fundamentally, we are in the entertainment industry. We need to get butts in seats to survive. And there is a lot of money in the LGBT community that can be courted. It's not the best reason to be supportive of the LGBT community, but it's a practical one.

Hey Patrick, thanks for doing this! I actually have a few questions I'd like to get answered if you don't mind.

Is there a young guy who most people haven't heard about yet, that you think will be the next big thing? Or at least pretty good?

Do you follow advanced stats?

Finally, is there a way your dad deals with all the negative comments or does he just ignore them? Thanks again for doing this!

1) In today's game it's really, really hard to discover a player. There's just so much information out there on everyone.

2) Yes.

3) He laughs at them.

Do you encounter a lot of athletes who wouldn't mind a Gay teammate but aren't really on board with other parts of the Gay Rights movement?

Yup. Lots of players who would be fine with a gay teammate but their religious beliefs keep them from supporting marriage equality. No different from the rest of society, really.

Do you have any crazy hockey parent stories from your time as a scout? What was the craziest thing to happen to you at the rink?

Also, thank you for all the work you do with YCP!

Yup, hockey parents are nuts. I was at a game where a mother was berating the officials (who couldn't have been older than 17). I walked down to her, asked her her son's name, then crossed his name off the roster I had in front of me. She was a lot quieter after that.

The CWHL, from a league perspective, seems really on board with YCP with prominent website signage and a lot of discussion of initiatives from the commish. But from a team and player perspective, it seems that there is definitively still a hesitation to align more publicly with YCP or being seen as an out woman hockey player. (Cahow has given multiple good soundbites on this front, all of which I agree with.) Are there any particular plans for addressing the double standards in being out gay athletes and being out gay women athletes? Is there anything the standard fan can do to help?

It's improving. It was eye-opening to me that I had an easier time recruiting NHL players to speak out as allies than CWHL players. And it speaks to the different societal norms around men's and women's sports. A lot of straight female athletes have spent their lives trying to prove to their friends/fans/boyfriends/families/whomever that they're actually straight. And they fear speaking out may diminish that.

I think we made a lot of progress with female athletes this year and we will have more work with the CWHL coming.

How's the dating life going?

Um, good?

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Like who? I think our motto is pretty inclusive.

In your professional opinion, is the criticism of the leagues behavior and the ability of its GMS justified in r/hockey, or are we just blowing smoke?

Do you have specific examples of what you're referencing? Some criticism is valid- the league and our GMs aren't infallible. Some is just smoke blowing. Fans probably are exposed to 1/3 of the information a GM is about a variety of things: work ethic, locker room chemistry, personal issues, and so on. Sometimes the reasons for a move aren't known to the public, and what seems like a stupid move may have been a vitally necessary one.

I registered for Reddit solely for this purpose today.

Kind of a YCP question... will you guys ever do ladies' baby-doll T-shirts? If so, I will buy one of every color, I promise. :-) Those would just be awesome.

Also, the main thing I wanted only to say is THANK YOU - from this straight, female, OKC Barons & hockey in general fan - for everything you do. I only WISH my OKC Barons would get hooked up with YCP. Sadly, I think I'm living in a fool's paradise if I think they would. It would be a dream come true however.

I hate managing the store...if we ever hand it over to a real retailer, then yes.

Current Baron Will Acton marched in Toronto Pride two years ago.