walkinthefire

Hello Mr de Plater and Mr Forgey,

You and members of your team have expressed in interviews with the press your love for Tolkien's story and world. You have stated that you have gone at lengths to make sure that your game is "authentic" and "faithful" to Tolkien's works. I also have a love of that story and world, and I enjoy seeing others interpret it for their own works. However, when words like 'authentic' and 'faithful' are thrown around, my expectations are set quite high. Unfortunately, I do have some concerns about what you have included in your game lore-wise, and I know that I am far from the only person to have these concerns. With that in mind, I would like to know your thoughts on these: (I realize the post below is quite long, I have included a much briefer summary at the bottom which you can feel free to skip to so that you can reach as many questions as possible)

• Your main character, Talion, is quite clearly a dead man who has been resurrected. However, Tolkien explicitly notes that "No fëa [an Elvish word for 'spirit'] of a dead Man ever returned to life in Middle-earth" (from 'Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth' in The History of Middle-earth Volume X: Morgoth's Ring. Tolkien does, of course, note that there exists the exception of Beren. Beren was able to return to life because Eru had his return in his design for the 'drama' of the world, and intervened in a minor way to allow it. Beren's return enriched mankind, due later becoming a father, but he also was forbidden from seeing other mortals ever again. Talion returning to life, especially without such unique circumstances, is quite against this prinicple of Tolkien's world that dead men do not return to life. Of course, men can linger long past their normal lives. The Ringwraiths, for instance, had their lives extended. The Dead Men of Dunharrow died and stayed in the world, but never returned to life. Without going into too much into spoiler territory, could you say if Talion is really dead or not?

• You call Celebrimbor a 'wraith.' However, this term is misapplied. Unlike in many other stories or in folklore, a 'wraith' for Tolkien was not a spirit. Consistently, he uses the term to mean a corporeal being who has 'faded' into the Unseen Realm. Celebrimbor is an elf who has died, and so remains in the world (in your story) as a spirit. The term for him would then be a 'houseless elf.' Careful readers might observe that there actually is one exception to that usage: in the published Silmarillion, the spirit of Gorlim is referred to as a 'wraith.' However, that was a term actually introduced by Christopher or Guy Kay during the editing process, and JRR (being dead) was not involved in that word choice. This is more of a semantics point, but semantics did have some importance to Tolkien and his stories.

• Houseless elves clearly were a thing in Tolkien's mythology. They could even inhabit things in the physical world, going as far as the bodies of other people. As the barrow-wights should spirits could reanimate corpses (and possibly even inhabit them), but they could not actually return a corpse to life, which would require bringing back its native spirit. Magic powers also could not be awarded to 'pure' men, and spirits themselves were physically impotent (though a powerful enough spirit could use 'magic' to impact the world around them in somewhat-subtle ways). A houseless elf inhabiting the body of another also would not cause his or her eyes to glow blue.

• Regarding magic, your game is clearly abundant with it. The great deal of magia and powers I surmise are goetic effects are plainly inconsistent with Tolkien's more reserved and subtle use of those things. Magic, of course, exists in Tolkien's mythos. Sometimes it exists in big and flashy ways, but it never approaches having things like 'battle mages,' which is a term that could be applied to Talion+Celebrimbor given just how much magic they use.

All of the above have the unfortunate result that your protagonist and central premise of the game is quite at odds with Tolkien's lore and world. Simply put, the presence of such a character alone makes it difficult for me to see the world you have designed and built as a well-conceived interpretation of Tolkien's Middle-earth. It doesn't feel authentic at all, I'm afraid... However, there is more:

• The game is set with Sauron's return to Mordor, which happened in 2942. However, your story also features Talion being part of Gondor's watch on the Black Gate. That was abandoned some 1300 years earlier. That is not the only historical inconsistency between your game and Tolkien's lore. For instance, you depict northwest Mordor as a rather thriving and green realm many, many centuries after it had become a desolate and barren landscape. You've also included Gollum in your game, who did not appear in Mordor until sometime between 3009 and 3017 -- there would need to be quite a length of years for his presence to make chronological sense.

• In imagery, tone, and themes, your work seems very much unlike Tolkien's. Simply put, the art direction of your game seems more inspired by Peter Jackson's film trilogy and modern fantasy games than it does Tolkien's (quite extensive and elaborate) descriptions. As I've stated, when in northwest Mordor, there should hardly be any green plants. Costume and weapon designs should be heavily based on the European early medieval era (rather than high or late). Orcs should be shorter than humans, yet have a somewhat more human look to them than what is seen in your game. Their behavior and speech also seems to be more inspired by more recent takes on 'orcs,' rather than the dialogue and mannerisms we witness in The Lord of the Rings. Most importantly, your game seems quite focused on brutal action and dominating other living things. For someone wanting a work influenced by The Lord of the Rings that's quite a leap. While it is by no means a work for pacifists, it does stress that warfare and killing should be seen as nothing more than a necessity. We see this especially with Faramir and Frodo. The Lord of the Rings is also a book all about getting rid of power! The whole point of the quest from a broad view is to 'throw away' a significant source of power, not gain it! You or members of your team in interviews have also commented on the association of 'domination' and 'power' in Tolkien's works. However, domination is more closely linked with evil, and its use actually leads to a decrease in power. Melkor and Sauron are both significantly weakened by their attempts to unjustly control others. Your game features quite the reverse, and that's disturbing to me as someone who appreciates Tolkien's stories in great part due to their thematic importance.

In summary: your game features protagonists which are incompatible with this mythology due to one's resurrection and the other's abilities, the history you depict has numerous inconsistencies with Tolkien's, and your game has rather significant issues regarding its imagery, its tone, and its themes if the aim is to be authentic and faithful to Tolkien's stories. This would all seem to be rather at odds with your statements on maintaining authenticity and faithfulness to the source material.

You have stated in interviews that you are fans of Tolkien's stories, and I believe you. I'm sure that, as fans like me, you care about these stories and wish to see them live up to their potential as hallmarks of popular culture. I'm also sure you can see why I, and others, have concerns about what impact this game could have on the conception of those stories in that culture, and I would like to see what you could do to alleviate those concerns.

Lastly, I will say that all this stuff is concerned with your game's story and its depiction of Tolkien's world and lore. Apart from all that, your game does look to be quite excellent, and it looks to include several innovative ideas. From what I've read of the experiences of those who've played it, it seems that those ideas have been well implemented, and I hope the game lives up to that promise.

Thanks for your response. I realize that you have other questions to get to, so don't feel the need to respond to what's below. However, I do have some thoughts on this:

Is Talion Dead: Yes he is. So in that sense he does have more in common with the Nazgul or the Barrow Wights.

My understanding is that his spirit returns to his own body. Given how Tolkien consistently uses 'life' and 'death,' that would make Talion once dead and returned to life. The Ringwraiths aren't a very good comparison here, as they never died prior to the War of the Ring. The Barrow Wights are a bit of a mystery -- we don't know exactly what they are save 'fell spirits' reanimating corpses. The men who's bodies they were have long since passed beyond the Circles of the World, so it is some other sort of being that's inhabiting them.

The Nazgul are very interesting in terms of whether they have "flesh" or not - for example Merry is able to stab the Witch King in the heel.

The Ringwraiths do have bodies (and thus flesh). When a being 'fades' in Tolkien's universe, it retains its physical form, though it's made invisible to those who inhabit the 'seen' realm. The flesh of the Ringwraiths does seem to be in a significant state of decay, as it takes some sort of sorcery to hold it together. Nonetheless, the bond between spirit and body remains and remained unbroken prior to their deaths.

Also it's ambiguous whether they are wearing the Rings of Power (holding them) or they are held by Sauron to enable him to exert his domination over them

You're correct on this point, though the stronger argument is that they did not possess their Rings. However, once they had faded, they did not need the Rings to remain invisible, alive, and under Sauron's utter dominion.

Celebrimbor is also a somewhat special case

Well, in your game that does seem to be the case. Celebrimbor was one of the elves tutored by Sauron, but anything after his death remains unknown. It's very likely he simply heeded the summons of Mandos. Also, again I will note that 'wraith' isn't really a term that should be applied to Celebrimbor. 'Houseless elf' is the term that Tolkien uses for an elf who has died and remained in the world.

Regarding Magic and the level of power, we are perhaps more at the epic end of the spectrum, but we felt this was legitimate because we are within Mordor and Celebrimbor is not constrained in his use of power in the same way that Gandalf was. He has no hesitation about interfering or facing Sauron directly

Even at the 'epic' end of the spectrum, your use of magic is inconsistent with what we see elsewhere. For example, The Silmarillion is full of war and battle between elves (many of whom are more powerful than Celebrimbor) and the forces of evil, yet magic remains hardly used in comparison to what is depicted in your game.

We get a bit of a taste of what this could look like when we see Dark Galadriel

This would be a case of drawing from the films, rather than the books, so there isn't really anything for me to comment on here.

You are right about the timeline and we have compressed some of the events, in the same way as the films, and we have associated the return of Sauron to Dol Guldor with the restoration of the Nazgul.

Thanks for the acknowledge on the timeline. I'm confused by the latter part -- are you referring to the events depicted in Peter Jackson's Hobbit films regarding his deaths & resurrection of the Ringwraiths?

In regard to the style and tone we are very focused on the themes of power and the consequences of power and ruthlessness. Our characters are indeed taking a path more like Boromir, Saruman or Galadriel and Gandalf's temptation to take the Ring.

I see that, but The Lord of the Rings is very clearly a work about not taking that path. It's at the thematic heart of the work, and that's something that attracts a great many people to the story. Usually when people wish to explore derivative works, they do so to get some further exploration and enjoyment of what they liked about the source material. In this case, someone looking for Tolkien's themes would find your interpretation of it unfaithful and even distasteful. It seems to be set to appeal to those interested more in the action and warfare, which isn't really what The Lord of the Rings is about.

Because they don't want to spoil bits of the story

Then they can say that my concerns there will be addressed in the game, if that is the case.

expect that the rest of the visual media that follow will resemble the original one

That's one aspect of one concern. However, they have been stressing faithfulness to Tolkien's story and world more so than Jackson's films. That's the standard I am holding them here to.

Some of your timeline questions are valid but I think they "fudged the numbers a bit" to get an interesting story with familiar characters.

That's reasonable, but I would also like to see them discuss that, rather than simply say time and time again that they are being as faithful as possible with no mention of their inconsistencies.