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tolman8r280 karma

There are a lot of legitimate reasons why that don't involve conspiracy or cover ups. First, the intercepted plan involved luring him from Virginia to the kingdom. The story cited shows how Khashoggi himself suspected such ploys were attempts to get him into Saudi custody, not to forgive anything.

Second, as hindsight is 20/20, it's easy to look back now and say "they knew and didn't tell him." We don't know what exactly they knew, how detailed it was, or of it was more than rumor. Suppose the intelligence had said "there is talk among high level officials that they'd like to kidnap a Saudi citizen/US resident and take them back to the kingdom." Suppose it even mentioned kidnapping Khashoggi. It's hard to say that's something worth giving a warning about. As I pointed out before, Khashoggi knew the Saudi's wanted him. Maybe not that they would kill him, but they wanted him. What's the point of saying "hey, we've intercepted these secret communications saying something you already know."

Third, and related, is that telling the world you know something invites clear indications of how you know it. Only so many people in the Saudi government would be privy to such a plan, and the Saudi General Intelligence Presidency (or whatever the particular branch involved would be) would quickly be able to narrow down how the intelligence was gained and we then lose that intelligence asset.

Fourth, people underestimate how many reports like this there are gathered daily. The list of American residents targeted by the Saudis is likely hundreds if not thousands. To say that the report exists and was circulated is proof that the right people had the right info and refused to act for some nefarious purpose is ignoring how difficult these jobs are. Remember how speculation about "knowing" of the existence of the 9/11 hijackers prior to 9/11 was "proof" of a conspiracy? The truth was more that there are literally hundreds of thousands of threats to the US living in the US or suspected of trying to get access on any given day. It's very very easy to lose a few in the haze.

It's easy to jump to conspiracy, but the world is much more complex than a Tom Clancy novel.

tolman8r255 karma

You make it sound wonderful and all, but I just think the town Espoo.

tolman8r186 karma

Why would she make love to you if you're not erect?

tolman8r85 karma

Have a blue heeler. Smartest dog I've ever met, hands paws down.

tolman8r78 karma

I don't know your background or personal experiences, but my experiences with the system are quite different (worked for a prosecutor's office).

First, I don't know a single cop or other person in law enforcement who doesn't care about domestic violence. In fact, every person I met hated domestic abusers the most.

Second, every judge or clerk I've ever known will go out of their way to help a person make sure their temporary restraining order (TRO) is filled out properly. And when police respond to a domestic violence call, they're allowed in most states to fill out the TRO. If they don't, prosecutors often can and will.

Third, most of my experiences with victims of domestic violence was adversarial. One went so far as to offer to perjur herself in order to keep her husband out of jail (who tried to grab her and pull her out of a moving car). Another was stabbed in the chest an inch from his heart (not the first time his girlfriend had stabbed him) and refused to testify against her. Here's some information on victims returning to their abuser. On this one I think you're quite right that abusers often come from abusive households. Yet victims also often come from abusive households. And the sad fact is that it's very hard to keep victims away from abusers against their will.

Edit: I should point out that the above comment mentioned that victims come from abusive families. I misread the comment in terms of its apparent focus on systemic issues not treating victims fairly.

All this isn't to say that the system couldn't be improved. It absolutely could. But it's a far more complicated issue than billionaires or racism.