retailguypdx

This to me is the high point of this thread. There is a huge difference between people who "describe themselves as creative" and people who "are creative."

I work as the lead nerd in a firm that is (properly) dominated by traditional "creatives," and I've noticed that the people who actually ARE the most creative are the least likely to label and crow about it. In fact, they often have an inclusive definition of "creativity" that makes it very unlikely they would lay claim to it as a distinction.

Yeah, um.... you need to do a little research on what vegan means. Vegans eat bread, beer, pickles, sauerkraut, kimchi... all kinds of things that use microbes to transform food.

Right, but that is a completely separate issue than fermentation. My point is that vegans do not consider microorganisms to be "animal products." Isinglass clearly is an animal product. Plus it has no place in real beer anyway :)

I'll repeat what I said in another thread recently. Go to a Native American cultural center when you visit. Some are located on reservations and run by tribes, others are parts of National Parks which have a formal commitment to recognizing the culture and heritage of first people. I'm in LA, and we have a wonderful center called Satwiwa in the Santa Monica National Recreation Area that is a great primer to all the tribes in the region.

What is your casein derived from if not from dairy?