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ConfoundedClassisist169 karma

Out of curiosity, what do you think about Carrie Lam saying that she wants to resign but she can’t because the CCP won’t let her? Also thank you so much for what you do, I can’t even imagine how difficult it is out there for you all right now. Stay safe!

ConfoundedClassisist14 karma

I can’t speak for the OP but as a Chinese person who was educated in Canada, I feel like a LOT of people conflate China with PRC. Many Chinese people are patriotic in that we love our country, but at the same time we are also unhappy with what the PRC is doing politically re:ethnic cleansing/social credit etc.

That being said, many people who criticize China to us/readily bring up the transgressions of the PRC are doing it in a way that completely ignores the culture/people aspect, and it makes us defensive. To us it sounds like people just want to criticize China without learning about it, and it generally makes us less likely to engage in a positive way. I have many western friends who made an effort to engage in cultural events with me, and we have engaged in more well rounded discussions about Chinese politics since I believe they actually come from a place of curiosity and not just someone who wants to criticize China without knowing anything. As an example of the last point, my ex refused to go to China to visit my family saying that the air is dirty and the city is dirty, so I offered to just go to Beijing, or stick to the seaside cities on the east. Keep in mind that he’s never been to China before. After I offered, he still kept insisting the air is polluted and the cities are dirty, when in fact, it’s the opposite in the cities I listed (of course many cities are polluted and dirty but not the ones I chose, which was the point). He just saw China as this fixed idea to reject and not as a culturally rich and interesting country with both good and bad sides. I think some western people who espouse negative political also have this mindset, which can make it difficult to converse with them even when I do admit that China is flawed, because they’re just interested in getting a Chinese person to say that China is bad.

ConfoundedClassisist7 karma

Ah yeah, I got that mixed up thanks for the info! I’m not surprised that the CCP wants to keep their puppet of choice on the throne. Keep fighting the good fight!

ConfoundedClassisist4 karma

Not the OP but another person who grew up in China but educated in the west (Canada specifically)! Good question about HKers not identifying as being from China. To me it sounds like people from New York saying that they’re not Americans, they’re New Yorkers. I think when this happens within domestic boundaries it makes sense, and I’d never begrudge someone for that. But internationally, it doesn’t really make sense. I’ve met many people from Bavaria, but they’d always introduced themselves as being German but from the Bavarian region, therefore culturally distinct. I think this is way more helpful to people who aren’t as aware of the cultural intricacies of different countries. Another aspect of HKer v Chinese people is that, in general, HKers I’ve met are sorta racist toward mainlanders. Couple that with their refusal to identify as Chinese it feels less like “actually, HK is culturally different and I’d prefer to be called HKer” rather than “ew I don’t wanna be Chinese wtf”. That’s kinda how I feel about the situation.

To address your second question about open mindedness/patriotism, I just want to echo what the OP said already: people have this weird idea that Chinese people can’t be organically proud of their country. You implied that Chinese patriotism is a result of the education, but that’s not true. I’m VERY patriotic (hopefully in the good way haha) even though the majority of my education has taken place in Canada. I feel like unless westerners stop questioning why Chinese people love China and just accept the fact we do, there’s gonna be a communication gap. Sometimes when I talk to people it seems they’re just looking for ways that I’m brainwashed. I am proud of my home country organically.

Also it’s completely untrue that criticism is not something we learn, idk where you got that from. Many people criticize the PRC between friends, it’s really common.

Maybe wrt the open minded-ness you’ve experienced some selection bias. You and your friends who WILLINGLY went to China for a new experience have found people who are less open minded than you, I’m not surprised. I’ve been to plenty of western places which are really closed minded, probably because I went to a place where the people didn’t travel/move. That makes sense. Painting it as “Chinese students/people aren’t as open minded” is probably not true.

WRT to the last question, I think you really overestimate the amount of power a Chinese citizen has. We cannot do anything to change the government. We cannot help them. We are unlikely to even be able to spread word through the internet without censorship. The only thing we can do is just put our nose to the ground and keep working. The HK protests are disturbing that, so it’s very unlikely they will get a sympathetic response. That being said, I do empathize with them. It must be scary to know that your system may change to a more totalitarian one soon. I cannot help but I do understand.