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220pounds45 karma

1) No - not only was it an illegitimate and illegal referendum ( that's why the police stepped in), it was a joke, people could turn up wherever and vote as they willed, some reporter proved how silly it all was by voting multiple times with no problem whatsoever, (I t's likely this was due to police intervention)

2) No - not as far as I know.

Edit: last brackets in answer 1

220pounds4 karma

Hello fellow Spaniard (sorry had to rub it in a little), I am from Valencia. First of all let me say that your answers are fairly grounded and unbiased, which I appreciate a lot, thank you very much for keeping composure as I feel international coverage has been very one-sided (yes, the violence was terribly unnecessary, but the press seems to have forgotten that the 'referendum' was illegitimate and ultimately an attempt to rupture Spain - which is very important to keep in mind. Nonetheless violence was unnecessary)

My question goes in line with my last thought. As a supporter of leaving, can you understand how breaking off from the country is massively unfair to the rest of us as we get no say in the matter? I mean, by leaving you are talking away from me, a big (and frankly very important) part of my country, and I am getting no say... is it not understandable that Madrid defends the rest of the Spanish people?

Can you understand that ONLY Cataluña voting on wether they leave is almost as ridiculous as my household deciding we want to be independent, holding a 'referendum' then claiming that because it was 'democratically' decided (within my household) we have the right to leave?

I get you have cultural differences. But frankly all of Spain is different to the rest of Spain. Galician tradition is nothing like Sevillan and neither of those are like Canario, and those are all different to Valencian...

I get in recent years you have had a few "benefits" taken away from you, but you are in no way "picked on" by the central government- in fact for years you were treated especially well to keep Cataluña happy and quiet ... (please correct me if you think I'm wrong on that one)

I know my tone may seem a bit serious , but it's lack of time rather than me being acusative . As I said I really appreciate the way in which you are answering, will be interested to her back from you!

Edit: "quite" to "quiet"

220pounds3 karma

The referendum is ilegal and VERY un-democratic.

The independent parties are playing on the fact that there is a vote to trick people into thinking its democracy (in other words they argue if it's voted then it's democratic moral and righteous) and so, anything opposing it is un-democratic. But in actual fat it's the other way round: it's an illegal and immoral referendum, set up by the independent parties - they even spread fake anti-independence propaganda on behalf of other parties to try to make it seem mor legitimate (that just proves how idiotic this all is).

What would be democratic is a nation-wide and fair referendum. Perhaps not on "should Cataluña be independent" but "should the constitution be modified to allow Spanish autonomous communities (such as Cataluña) to unilaterally form independent states".

220pounds2 karma

While I do agree. I also do understand the reasoning behind not allowing a general "non-binding-referendum" (essentially an official poll) as there are many. Amongst them:

Although as you said not all voters are pro-independence, the majority are - because the "stay" voters are less inclined to go out of their way to vote, therefore nullifying the validity of the results.

Although labelled "non-binding" - and assuming voter turn out is high (I.e. Not just made up of the independent voters) and independice comes out on top, the government is placed in a tricky position. It may be none-binding, but you can't really go against the will of the people... which also rules out negotiations to keep Cataluña Spanish.

This opens the gate to all sorts of silliness, I mean if Cataluña can do it, can a Province? Then if so, can a city? A town? A village? - if only those seeking independence are allowed to choose, unilaterally, then why not?