Hello all! I was born in Canada but spent most of my years in Hong Kong until my university years which were spent in Britain.

I’m pro-protestor, but am able to see both sides of the arguments. I’ll attempt to answer your questions as well as possible. Ask me anything!

Proof: https://truepic.com/ydwlr9um

https://imgur.com/a/QS6Ienz - video taken last week at the 1.7 million strong protest march. Not showing my face for obvious reasons.

EDIT: some context, why we are protesting and the Five Demands laid out by protestors.

Earlier this year, Chief Executive (essentially the mayor of Hong Kong) Carrie Lam proposed an extradition bill which would enable local authorities to arrest, detain and extradite people who are wanted in regions the SAR currently do not have extradition treaties with, the main one of which is mainland China. The casus belli for this was regarding a murder case which took place in Taiwan. However, many Hong Kongers view this as a serious threat to Hong Kong’s autonomy and the start of a path down autocratic communism which would allow people to be extradited to the mainland for perceived slights where the legal system is terribly corrupt.

What started off as peaceful marches and protests turned violent once the police started using tear gas and rubber bullets against protestors who were using tactics reminiscent of the 2014 Umbrella Revolution; organizing sit ins on major roads, marching etc. Now, there is a list of five demands which is being touted by protestors which the government is refusing to not only agree to but even acknowledge.

  1. Full withdrawal of the proposed extradition bill. Lam has earlier suspended the bill and declared it ‘dead’, but a mere suspension could mean another push to pass it once the current storm is over.

  2. An independent enquiry into police brutality or alleged excessive violence and collaboration with triad (gangs) groups around the city. There are allegations that the police cooperated with triad groups to attack protestors. I won’t go into detail here, but here’s a good read: https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/22/hong-kong-police-made-no-arrests-mob-assaulted-commuters-protesters-journalists-yuen-long/

  3. Retraction of the ‘rioter’ definition and classification of the protestors, a crime which carries a potentially hefty jail sentence.

  4. Amnesty for those who have been arrested - around 750 since the start of the protests.

  5. Universal suffrage for both the Legislative Council and the Chief Executive. At the moment, only half the seats in Legco - the body which makes the city's laws - are directly elected by voters. The Chief Executive is elected by a 1,200-member commitee considered to be mainly controlled by Beijing. This is also a goal which was slated in Basic Law, which details the region’s relations with China and rights of citizens.

Comments: 90 • Responses: 36  • Date: 

chrislovessushi8 karma

Where are the protestors going to the bathroom and do you guys get together afterwards to have drinks and reflect on your successful protesting?

Tic-Tac_Lang5 karma

As u/Airsoft_Raccoon said, there are facilities nearby which offer their facilities. However, many shops close their doors once they realize the protests are close; by that point we have to rely on public restrooms or wait until it’s over!

EDIT: and no, we don’t get together usually. By that time I just want to go home and sleep!

highvelocityfish6 karma

Do you think the videos achieving popularity on Reddit accurately represent the state of the protests?

Tic-Tac_Lang9 karma

Which videos are you talking about? I’ve seen differing viewpoints and representations.

EDIT: if you could provide me with a link that would be lovely :)

ivanraptor7301 karma

Most videos on r/PublicFreakout are the only place where i see Hong Kong protests (maybe). So i guess, there.

Tic-Tac_Lang2 karma

They reflect the more violent clashes between police and protestors. There are however many which are more peaceful.

J1mmy54634 karma

You said you are pro-protestor but can see both sides of the arguments. Could you summarize what the arguments are against the protests?

Tic-Tac_Lang10 karma

The main argument against the protests now is the fact that CE Carrie Lam has come out to say the ‘bill is dead’, meaning that those who are protesting now don’t have much legitimacy as their original demand has been met.

The fact that there is property being damaged or destroyed is a major argument against the protestors who have been mainly non violent for the past couple of months. The disruption which things like sit ins have caused the city’s mass transit and public spaces, which could then lead to economic disruption and recession; Hong Kong’s tourism numbers, for example have dropped massively this summer when compared to others.

Violence against the police in the form of Molotov cocktails and improvised weapons is also an argument being used and is probably the main reason that the government is defining them as ‘rioters’.

That’s all off the top of my head just now, I’ll edit this post if any more come to me!

J1mmy54633 karma

Thanks. Reddit is very pro-protestors so it's hard to get the other side of the story. I wasn't aware there was violence against the police.

MeetYourCows1 karma

Every time someone says something about it, they get downvoted into oblivion with inevitable accusations of the person being a shill/wumao or whatever. News articles about violent protester-police clashes have top comments talking about agent provocateurs.

This is why you didn't know.

It's kind of funny that Reddit is vastly more biased in pushing a narrative than the protesters themselves.

Tic-Tac_Lang2 karma

It’s very one sided, goes the same the other way though. There are two sides to every story and supporting one side doesn’t mean blindly following everything they are saying/acknowledging their actions! I have to admit when the protestors have screwed up, and trust me there have been many instances over the past couple months

kospos3 karma

It's a shame that some of these protests now seem to be turning violent in nature. I've seen recent videos of folks that are destroying property and physical clashes with police that seems to be instigated by the protesters.

While I think HK seemed to have much of the Western world behind them in supporting their right to protest, I'm afraid support will waiver if these protests become less peaceful and more destructive in nature.

Tic-Tac_Lang6 karma

You’re right. It’s such a shame. However, radical action is one of the only avenues they have left. While I don’t agree I can see the reasoning behind it. Also, one can never be sure who is actually doing the vandalizing.

J1mmy54631 karma

Sorry one more question, if their demands have been met is there a reason they're still protesting?

Tic-Tac_Lang6 karma

Their demands haven’t been met just yet; the extradition bill has been suspended, not withdrawn. Nor has the government responded directly to any of them!

I do think however that the protests have fundamentally changed since June. The fact that there is now violence being used by protestors and what started as an anti-extradition bill protest has expanded into more demands shows that.

And don’t worry! Happy to answer any more :)

madpeanuts3 karma

what is the best form of help that we can give you from the other side of the world? (in particular for those of us who support freedom and are against communist oppression)

Tic-Tac_Lang9 karma

Pulled directly from r/HongKong!

HOWEVER, having seen that you are against Communist oppression I believe the main way you can help is to raise awareness of the history behind the CCP. Atrocities like the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution, the Tiananmen Square Massacre of 1989, etc. it’s ridiculous how very few know about these things.

GENERAL - anyone can sign the petitions below (no citizenship pre-requisite)

1.1 Write to Carrie Lam urging her to IMMEDIATELY WITHDRAW the extradition bill (Amnesty International) https://www.amnesty.org/en/get-involved/take-action/stop-the-hong-kong-extradition-bill/

1.2 Petition United Nations to Condemn Hong Kong Police for Excessive Use of Force and Call for an Independent Inquiry [Petition United Nation]

1.3 Request International Court of Justice to Investigate Excessive Force of Hong Kong Police [Petition International Court of Justice]

1.4 Cancel or postpone your trip to Hong Kong until the HK government meets all 5 Main Demands of the protesters. Do not give your money to Carrie Lam's government.

1.5 Support RTHK (Radio Television Hong Kong) editorial independence [Petition for Editorial Independence]

1.6 Join #Eye4HK Campaign https://twitter.com/Eye4HK

1.7 Revoke Carrie Lam's Legion of Honor Award (France) [Petition Grand Master of the Legion]

1.8 Setup Lennon Wall (Post-it/Memo stickers) in your community

1.9 Join and support your local #StandwithHongKong rallies.

1.10 Petition Amnesty for July 1st Legco Building Protesters [Petition Amnesty for Legco Protesters]

1.11 Reject Andy Tsang's Nomination to United Nations (former Police Chef of Hong Kong, Dateline Aug 27th) https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/we-demand-rejection-andy-tsangs-nomination-united-nations-positions

1.12 Raise awareness of the Hong Kong protest. Spread the word to your friends, family, schoolmates, church, etc...

1.13 Subscribe, Like, Thumbsup, Follow, Share Pro-Democracy Hong Kong Social Media or Channels

1.14 Make Meme, Posters, Videos, Drawings, Sing a Song to express your solidarity with Hong Kongers

1.15 Expel the Chinese Consul General in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia [Dear Australian Prime Minister]

1.16 Reporting HKPF to the International Police Association (IPA) for breach of professional code of conduct and excessive use of force [Petition International Police Association]

1.17 Impose Global Magnitsky Act sanctions against Chinese officials [Petition Global Magnitsky Act]

1.18 Serena Lee's petition to address the violation of human rights in Hong Kong (She was assaulted on campus by Pro- Chinese Communist students in Auckland, New Zealand [Stand with Serena Lee] (dateline: Sept 15th)

MONETARY DONATIONS

2.1 612 Humanitarian Relief Fund (Legal Aid) https://www.facebook.com/612Fund/posts/379578696075634

2.2 Hong Kong Free Press (Not-for-Profit News) https://www.hongkongfp.com/support-hkfp/

2.3 The Stand News (Not-for-Profit News, in Cantonese) https://mystand.thestandnews.com

2.4 Hong Kong Public Opinion Research Institute (Independent Research) https://www.pori.hk/donation

2.5 HK Protect https://hkprotect.org/shop/保護裝備/捐贈裝備送給前線/ Help supply protective gears to HK protesters ( Due to tighten import restrictions, there's currently two months of backlog)

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (USA)

3.1 Write to US Congress (Senators and Representatives)

https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative

https://www.senate.gov/senators/How_to_correspond_senators.htm

3.2 Ask Your US Representatives to Co-Sponsor Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019

https://actionnetwork.org/letters/co-sponsor-hong-kong-human-rights-and-democracy-act-of-2019

3.3 Call your representative https://www.callmycongress.com and tell them you are very concerned about the situation in Hong Kong, the excessive amounts tear gas used, some of which are expired, releases dangerous levels of hydrogen cyanide that could literally kill a person, which qualifies as chemical weapons, a flagrant violation of international law. Please support the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act 2019 by passing the [House Bill H.R. 3289] / [Senate Bill S.1838] and review/revoke the United States - Hong Kong Policy Act 1992. It's in the interest of leaders who value democracy, international laws, human rights, to stand up for those who don't have the same freedoms we have. Thank you.

UNITED KINGDOM (UK)

4.1 Write to your Members of Parliament (UK)

https://www.parliament.uk/get-involved/contact-your-mp/

4.2 Petition UK to Uphold the 1984 Sino-British Joint Declaration

https://petition.standwithhk.org

4.3 Petition UK to give full British Citizenship to British National Overseas (BNO) passport holders

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/244402

4.4 Petition Liz Truss from Department of International Trade and Dominic Raab from Foreign and Commonwealth Office to Stand up for Human Rights in Hong Kong

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/uk-should-safeguard-human-rights-and-rule-of-law-in-hong-kong-in-future-trade-deals

CANADA

5.1 Write to your Members of Parliament (CAN)

https://www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/constituencies/FindMP

5.2 Sign petition e-2268 sponsored by MP Michael Chong (dateline: Sept 11th)

https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-2268

AUSTRALIA

6.1 Write to your Senators and Members of Parliament (AUS)

https://www.aph.gov.au/senators_and_members/guidelines_for_contacting_senators_and_members

NEW ZEALAND

7.1 Write to your Members of Parliament (NZ)

https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/members-of-parliament/

EUROPE (EU)

8.1 Write to Your Members of European Parliament (EU)

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/search/advanced

CHINA or CHINESE

9.1 Considering you are reading this on reddit, that means you already know how to use VPN. My suggestion is for you to speak out but be anonymous. Let other Chinese, Hong Kong people, the world knows that there are Chinese or Mainland Chinese who do supports the Hong Kong protest.

GOALS ACHIEVED

100k+ signatories : Petition White House to nominate Hong Kong Protesters for Nobel Peace Prize 2020

100k+ signatories : Petition White House to suspend crowd control equipment exports to Hong Kong

100k+ signatories : Petition White House to pass the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act

HKD 3m+ raised for Hong Kong Journalist Association Protection Fund

lunarul1 karma

Atrocities like the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution, the Tiananmen Square Massacre of 1989, etc. it’s ridiculous how very few know about these things.

All I know about the Cultural Revolution comes from Liu Cixin's The Three-Body Problem. Have you read it, and if so, would you say it accurately depicts those times?

Tic-Tac_Lang1 karma

I’m afraid I’ve never read it. There are some excellent books though, the one I recommend the most is The Cultural Revolution by Frank Dikotter.

lunarul2 karma

The Three-Body Problem is a sci-fi novel (a very good one too) and it's not about the Cultural Revolution, it's just background to part of the story. I was just curious if it depicts it accurately (I assume it does, since I found it very similar to events in my own native country during the Communist regime).

Tic-Tac_Lang1 karma

My great grandmother’s family hailed from the mainland. Her mum was quite a well off landowner and was thus a main target during the Cultural Revolution.

My great grandma told of stories where neighbors would rat each other out to the Red Guards, public shaming sessions multiple times a day, beatings and insults. People were whisked away to laogai (literally labour change, or hard labour/re-education camps) and many were never seen again. It’s why they escaped to Hong Kong. So yes, from what I have read about the book, it’s quite similar.

Where are you from, if you don’t mind me asking?

odinsvalhalla3 karma

Hi, what is China actually doing to make you protest?

Tic-Tac_Lang7 karma

Earlier this year, Chief Executive (essentially the mayor of Hong Kong) Carrie Lam proposed an extradition bill which would enable local authorities to arrest, detain and extradite people who are wanted in regions the SAR currently do not have extradition treaties with, the main one of which is mainland China. The casus belli for this was regarding a murder case which took place in Taiwan. However, many Hong Kongers view this as a serious threat to Hong Kong’s autonomy and the start of a path down autocratic communism which would allow people to be extradited to the mainland for perceived slights where the legal system is terribly corrupt.

What started off as peaceful marches and protests turned violent once the police started using tear gas and rubber bullets against protestors who were using tactics reminiscent of the 2014 Umbrella Revolution; organizing sit ins on major roads, marching etc. Now, there is a list of five demands which is being touted by protestors which the government is refusing to not only agree to but even acknowledge.

  1. Full withdrawal of the proposed extradition bill. Lam has earlier suspended the bill and declared it ‘dead’, but a mere suspension could mean another push to pass it once the current storm is over.

  2. An independent enquiry into police brutality or alleged excessive violence and collaboration with triad (gangs) groups around the city. There are allegations that the police cooperated with triad groups to attack protestors. I won’t go into detail here, but here’s a good read: https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/22/hong-kong-police-made-no-arrests-mob-assaulted-commuters-protesters-journalists-yuen-long/

  3. Retraction of the ‘rioter’ definition and classification of the protestors, a crime which carries a potentially hefty jail sentence.

  4. Amnesty for those who have been arrested - around 750 since the start of the protests.

  5. Universal suffrage for both the Legislative Council and the Chief Executive. At the moment, only half the seats in Legco - the body which makes the city's laws - are directly elected by voters. The Chief Executive is elected by a 1,200-member commitee considered to be mainly controlled by Beijing. This is also a goal which was slated in Basic Law, which details the region’s relations with China and rights of citizens.

Hope I’ve been able to answer your question! Anything you’re unclear on feel free to ask away :)

odinsvalhalla2 karma

Thank you, i wish you best of luck in the protests.

Tic-Tac_Lang1 karma

Thank you very much! I answered a question in this thread regarding what people can do to help; any of those things would be much appreciated.

sgdynol2 karma

While I understand that major protests have been going on for about the past 12 weeks and show no sign of dying out, I am not sure what the extent of them is. Is it affecting all/most of the city (center)? Are they happening every day non-stop? Just nighttime, or during the day as well? Thanks and solidarity

Tic-Tac_Lang2 karma

It depends on where the protests are that day. However, hot spots are usually in the vicinity of police stations, the vicinity of the route which the protests take place and outside some governmental buildings.

They happen mainly during the weekend; many of the protestors are students and professionals with much to get on with during the week! Things are mainly quiet on weekdays. Most of the more violent clashes have taken place at night.

AuntieLili2 karma

Is it true that, while majority are protesting about China’s influence, there are some who are protesting about the current living/working situation in Hong Kong? Unable to own homes because of high prices, rich getting richer etc..

Tic-Tac_Lang2 karma

That’s a common theme with protests in Hong Kong. We have one of the biggest wealth gaps amongst developed countries in the world. I think this time though the atmosphere is different; for the most part protestors are asking for a government response to the Five Demands.

ABeachMadeOfPeas2 karma

I've seen videos on Reddit of triads assaulting and harassing citizens. How common are these occurrences in reality?

Tic-Tac_Lang1 karma

They never occurred until July 21st. Since then however they have played a role in most clashes between police and protestors.

mqcmqcmqc2 karma

There have now been videos surfacing of protester mobs attacking a small number of police first, causing the police to draw guns and shoot in the air as self defence. What do you think about how these actions may change the public support for protesters?

Tic-Tac_Lang2 karma

I think that it really depends on which news outlet is being viewed. Some are very pro-protestor, while others still are pro-government.

However, I think that overall these actions have a generally negative impact on public support for the protestors who have been for the most part non-violent. Some of them have lost that moral high ground; having said that, there is always the fear of agent provocateurs.

Justcommentingsorry1 karma

I recently heard that protesters were so gong American songs and waving American flags. What was the reasoning behind that. Also how are you guys being fed? Are there any charities we can donate to to help you guys from a far?.

Tic-Tac_Lang1 karma

I’m not sure about the reasoning behind the American flag. I’ve personally flown a British one at the protests because Hong Kong used to be a colony and many feel that British rule was better. If I had to guess though it would be because the general consensus is that the Americans are the only ones who can hurt the Chinese enough.

We either eat before the protests, or if we get hungry during marches there are people handing out cakes and pastries as well as water along the routes. I don’t know about any charities; however there are many ways you can help. I’ve posted them in another answer in this thread! :)

dondaddanada1 karma

Are you concerned at all with the protestors turning violent? I understand being fearful of the government doing so (from what I've seen they have the violence aspect down pretty well) but any fear the frustration will lead to a group breakdown and possibly violence?

Tic-Tac_Lang2 karma

I am. The fact that there are some protestors engaging in wanton destruction of property (an example would be last night when a group went to the entrance of the cross-Harbour tunnel and smashed traffic lights and toll booths) and attacking the police with bats is seriously worrying and might be used as an excuse for the police to escalate.

What I think the main concern now is a mass eruption of violence, either incited by agent provocateurs or as a result of pent up frustration which will lead to bloody clashes with the police. That would be awful for everyone and won’t serve any purpose going forward.

dondaddanada2 karma

Are the police enforcing law for the protests based out of HK or China? Has there been proof of agent provocateurs?

I agree that if the situation falls into complete violence then very little that would be deemed positive will come. I understand the frustration though and can only imagine being in the very unique place they are.

Tic-Tac_Lang3 karma

As of now, they are enforcing the law laid in the Hong Kong ‘constitution’. The police are also based in HK, which explains the locations chosen for many protests; nearby major police stations.

While there hasn’t been direct proof of agent provocateurs, the police have admitted to having officers undercover posing as ‘different groups of people’, which points to that possibility.

MeetYourCows1 karma

Do you believe it is likely that the police would actively attack their own in order to justify escalation and greater use of force? I can't imagine the HK police to be so eager to hurt their own coworkers in order to hurt their own populace.

Tic-Tac_Lang1 karma

I believe that some of the acts of vandalism are being committed by these undercover cops. However, I think that assaults on officers are being perpetrated by protestors who’ve gotten fed up of excessive force and have decided to retaliate with such.

MeetYourCows1 karma

Fair enough. I could see false flag vandalism being pretty easy to commit.

Tic-Tac_Lang1 karma

Yeah. You’re right though, I don’t think that assaults on police are being committed by false flags.

anning1231 karma

Do you think it’s unfair for some of the shop owners because protesters forced them to close? Or do you think that it’s ok because you are helping them out also?

Tic-Tac_Lang1 karma

1) I don’t think it’s the protests which are making store owners close their doors. It’s the threat of violence which is brought onto the scene when the police get involved.

I’m afraid I don’t understand your second question.

RitzyTheWhiteGuy1 karma

are you afraid of the Chinese government doing the same thing that they did 30 years ago?

Tic-Tac_Lang5 karma

Not particularly. While the PLA does have a garrison in Hong Kong and are allowed by law to intervene upon request of the SAR government, there are some major differences I see between Tiananmen Square and Hong Kong now.

1) The Tiananmen Square protests took place during a sensitive time, when a wave of anti-Communist, pro-democracy movements were sweeping the USSR and Eastern Europe. The Chinese government were terrified of following in their footsteps.

2) Following on from the last point, there were major CCP figures who were quite vocal in their support of the students leading the protests. There isn’t public support for the protestors within the higher echelons of Chinese politics.

3) The 1989 protests had snowballed. What started off with students had at its peak involved teachers, factory workers, office workers and the middle class. It could have been a serious threat to the party.

4) Much of China’s foreign money goes through Hong Kong in some way or another; this is because foreign investors trust in Hong Kong’s independent judicial system and it’s integration into the global financial systems. A crackdown by the PLA will (for practical purposes) end the ‘one country, two systems’ policy.

I doubt they’ll send in the PLA. It’ll make them look terrible at a time where they can’t afford it especially given the fact that the 1989 Massacre had already eroded away the party’s legitimacy.

The_DisasterBox1 karma

What are the black trucks for?

Tic-Tac_Lang2 karma

Sorry, what black trucks are you referring to?

The_DisasterBox1 karma

I’ve seen a few photos recently of long convoys of black trucks entering Hong Kong, and I was wondering what those were for

Tic-Tac_Lang1 karma

Ah those ones. They’re across the Chinese border in Shenzhen, and are part of the PPA (which is like the state sanctioned armed police). Most including myself believe this is just for show.

Nevermore2171 karma

I’ve heard a ton of stuff about these protests, but why are they protesting?

Tic-Tac_Lang1 karma

Copied and pasted from the same question I answered!

Earlier this year, Chief Executive (essentially the mayor of Hong Kong) Carrie Lam proposed an extradition bill which would enable local authorities to arrest, detain and extradite people who are wanted in regions the SAR currently do not have extradition treaties with, the main one of which is mainland China. The casus belli for this was regarding a murder case which took place in Taiwan. However, many Hong Kongers view this as a serious threat to Hong Kong’s autonomy and the start of a path down autocratic communism which would allow people to be extradited to the mainland for perceived slights where the legal system is terribly corrupt.

What started off as peaceful marches and protests turned violent once the police started using tear gas and rubber bullets against protestors who were using tactics reminiscent of the 2014 Umbrella Revolution; organizing sit ins on major roads, marching etc. Now, there is a list of five demands which is being touted by protestors which the government is refusing to not only agree to but even acknowledge.

  1. Full withdrawal of the proposed extradition bill. Lam has earlier suspended the bill and declared it ‘dead’, but a mere suspension could mean another push to pass it once the current storm is over.

  2. An independent enquiry into police brutality or alleged excessive violence and collaboration with triad (gangs) groups around the city. There are allegations that the police cooperated with triad groups to attack protestors. I won’t go into detail here, but here’s a good read: https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/22/hong-kong-police-made-no-arrests-mob-assaulted-commuters-protesters-journalists-yuen-long/

  3. Retraction of the ‘rioter’ definition and classification of the protestors, a crime which carries a potentially hefty jail sentence.

  4. Amnesty for those who have been arrested - around 750 since the start of the protests.

  5. Universal suffrage for both the Legislative Council and the Chief Executive. At the moment, only half the seats in Legco - the body which makes the city's laws - are directly elected by voters. The Chief Executive is elected by a 1,200-member commitee considered to be mainly controlled by Beijing. This is also a goal which was slated in Basic Law, which details the region’s relations with China and rights of citizens.

Hope I’ve been able to answer your question! Anything you’re unclear on feel free to ask away :) was

BurgerPleaseYT1 karma

I see thousands of people there, What do you do if you have to go to the restroom? of if your hungry? Are there any good burger joints there? What's your favorite burger joint?

Tic-Tac_Lang2 karma

Great username! I’ve answered the restroom part in another question; usually public restrooms.

If you get hungry, many volunteers are giving out cakes, pastries and bottles of water along the route of the marches.

There are! But they’re usually shut once the protests hit. I’m partial to a McDonald’s cheeseburger myself.

kingpandazz1 karma

Who normally starts all the violence that is shown on the news world wide? Police or Protestors?

Tic-Tac_Lang2 karma

It varies from moment to moment. Sometimes it’s the protestors throwing bricks and stones at the police which starts it, sometimes it’s the police firing tear gas or beating people with batons which cause retaliations.

ivanraptor7301 karma

Not to be negative but, do you (or other protesters) think the Hong Kong protests are gonna be another Tiananmen Square?

Tic-Tac_Lang1 karma

Answered in another question; copied and pasted!

Not particularly. While the PLA does have a garrison in Hong Kong and are allowed by law to intervene upon request of the SAR government, there are some major differences I see between Tiananmen Square and Hong Kong now.

1) The Tiananmen Square protests took place during a sensitive time, when a wave of anti-Communist, pro-democracy movements were sweeping the USSR and Eastern Europe. The Chinese government were terrified of following in their footsteps.

2) Following on from the last point, there were major CCP figures who were quite vocal in their support of the students leading the protests. There isn’t public support for the protestors within the higher echelons of Chinese politics.

3) The 1989 protests had snowballed. What started off with students had at its peak involved teachers, factory workers, office workers and the middle class. It could have been a serious threat to the party.

4) Much of China’s foreign money goes through Hong Kong in some way or another; this is because foreign investors trust in Hong Kong’s independent judicial system and it’s integration into the global financial systems. A crackdown by the PLA will (for practical purposes) end the ‘one country, two systems’ policy.

I doubt they’ll send in the PLA. It’ll make them look terrible at a time where they can’t afford it especially given the fact that the 1989 Massacre had already eroded away the party’s legitimacy.

dumdumjojo1 karma

Few questions after reading this post and some news: 1. The extradition law and related case: I understand that many Hong Kong citizens don't want to be victims of mainland "alleged" crime. But if the girl got killed in Taiwan is your family or friend, don't you want justice for her? As far as I read from internet, HK police can only prosecute the suspect with crime such as stealing personal property ( the suspect stole his girlfriend's camera and credit card)

  1. Mainland has "stricter" laws and regulation: if you, a HK citizen travel to another region, is it reasonable to assume that you would study local regulation to avoid any trouble? For example, it's illegal to drink alcohol if you're under 21, and it's illegal to drink in public places in america. But you don't have these rules in China. Can someone say America has stricter laws than China? Of course not becuase they are not comparable at same aspect. My question is, for a normal average Joe who is a HK citizen with good faith, why extradition law matters? Do HK people really want other criminals flee to HK to avoid being convicted by Taiwan and Mainland government? Are protestors concerned that those criminals would endanger the HK public?

  2. Is there any association with Taiwan independence advocates and HK protestors? Have you thought about conspiracy between Taiwan and other countries to utilize this protest to divide China as one country?

Tic-Tac_Lang2 karma

  1. You’re right, it’s a terrible thing which happened. However, I don’t think that giving up the liberties of 7 million people is a worthy tradeoff for one murderer who could be tried in Taiwan and serve the time for his crimes. Also, there are specific extradition cases between Taiwan and HK, it’s happened before. This was an unnecessary bill.

  2. I’m going to break this down, I seem to see multiple questions here.

a) The extradition laws matter for ordinary Hong Kongers because of the fact that Hong Kong’s authorities can detain people for crimes in the mainland, the legal definitions of which are extremely vague. For example, recently a staff member of the British embassy in Hong Kong was detained in Shenzhen for violating Public Security Administration Punishment Law in China. However, Chinese authorities refused to detail which out of the 119 articles he broke. The problem is with the bill this could happen to any anti-Communist person in HK.

b) This links to point 1. You can’t allow the actions of certain individuals dictate the liberties and freedoms of many others. If they break the law in Hong Kong they will be punished accordingly under Hong Kong law. Many people in Hong Kong view the CCP as a bigger threat than any criminal.

  1. I think that Taiwanese moral support for these protests is because they’re scared this could one day happen to them. Taiwan does not belong to China. It has been administered by the ROC government since 1945 and the Japanese before that. They’re two countries.

(This is coming from a more analytical standpoint along with some history)

China has been a divided country for centuries, millennia even. There hasn’t been a landmass with more civil war than China has had over the ages. One could argue that China itself doesn’t need any foreign influence to be pushed into divide.

dumdumjojo1 karma

Thanks for your response. It's awesome to have someone as intelligent and understanding as you to join the movement. As those news can be greatly biased, it's very hard for the world to see what is happening right this moment and give fair opinion. Despite of different political perspectives, I still admire your courage and effort for everything you do for your people. I hope all arrested protestors receive the justice they deserve. Please stay safe.

Tic-Tac_Lang2 karma

You’re very welcome; it’s an AMA after all! And thank you. Staying safe is a priority.

However if you don’t mind I’ve got a couple of questions for you. You say that I’m joining the movement, yet you’re saying we’ve got differing political perspectives. Mind elaborating?

mechanichal-animal1 karma

Do you believe that some of the actions of the protesters (such as blocking the mtr doors from closing) are either not helping/harming their cause? While I overwhelmingly agree with the protesters, I think some of their actions don’t help at all and are making everyday life harder

Tic-Tac_Lang2 karma

Funny you should mention that; many interviews with locals in MTR stations have mentioned the same thing. Many locals are annoyed at the disruption to their daily lives and the commute which has made Hong Kong so easy to get around, yet many still are sympathetic and understand, instead choosing to take alternate modes of transport.

It’s a two way street; I think some support may fade but at the same time the core backing for the protests won’t waver because of things like these.

Fancifulbonbons1 karma

what's the end goal? in 2047 HK will fully revert to china.

also are you worried that china will rather burn down HK than give out concessions? from an outsider perspective it seems like a hopeless battle.

Tic-Tac_Lang2 karma

The end goal is ultimately the five demands. We’ve always known that HK’s autonomy would only last until 2047; we’re fighting to stop it from happening decades before it’s meant to.

It does seem hopeless at times. However we’ve got to remember this might be the last fight if this bill is passed. I doubt China will burn Hong Kong down; its a highly educated and skilled populace which could provide much productivity of managed well.

ThealerGames1 karma

Do schools still operate ?

Referring to all levels including college.

Tic-Tac_Lang1 karma

Yes. As of now, schools are still operating because the protests mainly take place during the weekends!

Anar_chist1 karma

What do you think of the irony that there were protests against britain and now China?

Tic-Tac_Lang2 karma

I don’t think it’s irony as such. In any country that isn’t completely autocratic there will be groups that protest, grievances and policies which make people unhappy.

However, never during British rule did this many people come out in protest. Even the 1967 riots in Hong Kong were mainly instigated by pro-Communist Chinese activists who wished for integration with the mainland during the Cultural Revolution.

Anar_chist1 karma

Interesting,learned something new, thank you!

Tic-Tac_Lang1 karma

Quite alright! The 1967 riots are very interesting, read up on them if you have a chance!