IamA Survivor of serial killer Tommy Lynn Sells - AMA

Is opening up about this on an online medium where you will be exposed to questions from strangers regarding the incident therapeutic in some way?

I suppose that's true. I haven't really talked about it too much in the last few years, and I've been thinking about it lately. I didn't even know I was in a book until my ex-wife pointed it out to me. I'm kind of in a tough spot right now, and I can talk about this with confidence. So, yeah? I suppose. I don't have a therapist, it's expensive. I've only lived in the rural area I'm in for about 5 years, and they're a very "We don't know you, you don't know us. Stay away outsider" kind of people. I don't have many real friends here. People to talk to, sure, but no one that give a good god damn about MY mental health.

It almost seems like talking about it infront of strangers would be less stressful because it isn't like you will ever see any of us in real pife or anything so theres less pressure of judgement as you might fear with a person you actually know. I have a minor in psychology so I find stuff like this interesting. My origonal thoughts were that by forcing yourself to talk about it on the internet you would be inherently making yourself assess it. In fact, now I'm actually wondering if there are therapists out there who have prescribed there patients to do something similar to an AMA as some form of exposure therapy.

I didn't think of it that way. I've thought about this many times, and I've never had trouble talking about it, but the anonymity is comforting. I talk to strangers all the time tho. I'm a musician and stand-up performer as well as a newsman. The strangers part is easy.

Stand up comedy? What kind of music do you play?

I play a bit of pop rock and country, but when I can find a group to play with, I like to play lead. It's what's popular around here. When I go to the city, tho, they like it when I play folk music. This rural area is very set in it's (We're not leaving the 80's and 90's, don't ask us too) kind of living, and it's helped me hone some musical skills I had not focused on. Playing more popular tunes has really improved my playing. That and playing with these guys around here. There really are some great musical talents in this area. It's fascinating.

Hey, wow that's some rough stuff to cope with. Was there something specific that made you think about it more recently?

I moved to a rural nepotistic area when I was a kid, very isolated. For some reason, I decided to volunteer at the nursing home in town just walked in one day and asked at the front desk. I got to run the bingo game and help organize their social events. The seniors and nurses weren't my real friends but some of them were really interesting to talk with and they all treated me like gold. If the social isolation is getting to you, are there ways to plug into your community or have some outlet?

I'm just thinking about my dad. he and I haven't spoken in over a year now, and I want to call him, but I know that it will hurt me more every time I do. He's kind of mean and hateful and destructive now. We grew apart after my son was born, and he sees me as a failure not worthy to carry his name. It tears me apart. I was just thinking I wish I could have known that sweet man that was a foster parent to emergency adoption kids that needed to be out of where they were. He even gave up a little boy that he was really bonding with because my mother wanted to adopt a baby, and I was that baby. It really makes me cry. I love that man, but he's so bitter and dark about everything, and its because of this. He never really admitted that it hurt him. He always tried to be the toughest. Any sign of emotion was weakness after the murders.

As far as social situations go, I perform music at the numerous open mics around town. I got lucky in the town I found my first radio gig in has a massive musical presence. You can't swing a dead cat in this town without hitting a great guitarist. So I joined the club. I'm still kind of on the outside of things, not really IN the circle, just standing behind people trying to pick up enough conversation to jump in so people know, and they'll engage me a bit, and turn they're backs again. Didn't go to their high schools. Not part of the club. They like my lead guitar fine enough, but I'm a slouch compared to these guys, and I've been getting a lot better playing with them.

A music scene? Not quite so desolate as I pictured.

I know that conflicted feeling of an internal clock ringing to have parental contact after a while, even though the contact will be unpleasant. Why did your relationship worsen after your son was born?

They disapproved of my having a child with my woman. We had been together for 8 years, I had a good job, we moved out of state together. It was the right time to have a child in my life cycle. They didn't approve. Suddenly I'm not controllable. They can't manipulate me. I'm more concerned about him than them. His mother and I are still friends, but she wanted to move home to be with family, and I wasn't about to fight and ruin all of our lives. He's four, my parents live less than ten miles away, and have not seen him once. They never visited me in Illinois. They are not concerned with my happiness, only my servitude.

May I share something and give some advice?

I am so sorry that your life was ripped away like that. Tommy Sells was a rabid dog that needed putting down. He ripped your life away before you even got a chance to live it. And you've been punished for that every since.

I can relate and understand. When I was really young my mother ran around with a bunch of hippies, is kids just survived on who was sober enough to remember to feed us. A young, pretty blonde took me under her wing. One day I went with her on "a ride for supplies" and I was doped, woke up to her being dismembered and was doped again, I woke up 3 days later back with the hippies, my mom said I was dropped off by a van with two guys... The same two guys I described as killing the girl I was with, I can't remember their moniker, but they had a van with a toolbox in it with the stuff they used to kill women in the early 70s. I don't know why they didn't kill me or what they did do to me, but knowing evil touched me and let me live has been a life sobering mantra. Especially when I remember what they said to me when I woke up. There has to be a God out there that had a higher purpose for me to survive that as well as the childhood my mom made me suffer through.

I never felt I belonged anywhere until I moved to Alaska. It's the only place that has ever felt like home. And I just packed everything I owned into A motorhome and drove up here by myself and started my life all over not knowing a single soul... I love my life now.

You are meant for something greater. You were spared, you have a purpose. You just have to find out what it is and where you belong; like I did.

Sorry for the downer on your AMA, I just wanted you to know there are others out there like you.

If you ever need to talk, send me a DM, sometimes I'm slow (I'm old and married and grumpy.lol) but I will answer you within a day :) Keep you chin up!

That's what I did this for. I'm not the only one that's a survivor, but someone has to start the conversation. I'm so glad that you made it through that scenario intact. That's a miracle, and while I don't subscribe to the same religious dogma, I can't deny that it would be a terrible shame for my intellect and charisma to go to waste after surviving. I'm not worried so much about what I'm destined for (I want to be David Geffen, or Bob Rock) just how long the journey will take. JK Rowling was homeless and in her 30's when she thought up Harry Potter. Lucille Ball was 40 before the most beloved sitcom of all time hit the airwaves. I'm not allowed to see my impact on the world, I'm only here to make it. It's up to the rest of them to determine what I've done.

That's funny, last week I had someone ask me to do an AMA, I was thinking of doing one late this week. Glad you beat me to it! There's a gaggle of us out there, I swear!

I don't think I'll see my impact either. I'm 51 and have an autoimmune disease with other problems, I tell my husband Please don't make me live a long life just because you want a 30th anniversary cuz I don't wanna suffer that long! Haha he says I'm allowed to die the same day he does (not fair, he's 13yrs younger! Haha)

I can't have a relationship with my mom either, she's very destructive and toxic. I used to cry and ask her why she hated me... It's not me, it's herself. I think your dad has survivors guilt. It's very common. He's the one that needs therapy. I'm so sorry you missed out on the awesome dad. That's not fair to you. But alas, life isn't fair for any of us.

I feel mostly for him. He's going through it too.

Absolutely. He lost his life mate and a child, he's got to be beating himself up over every little detail through the years.

I truly wish you could tell him you understand and have him feel that you do.

He wouldn't believe me. He thinks empathy is fake so you can get what you want out of people. Just a show so you can take their dough.

Wow. His head really got messed up over the whole ordeal, that's the saddest part. My heart breaks for both of you. I can't imagined what I would do in his shoes.

We knew Miss Koeing, Israel Keys victim from Anchorage and I helped her dad with posters. But that was such a different situation than what you and your dad have gone through.

Everyone struggles differently. For my dad, he just acted like his dad in the end. I'm turning out to be a real dead beat myself. I haven't had the money to see my son in almost a year, and I missed his 4th birthday. I'm a real shitheel, if you ask me.

Awwh I completely understand how hard that is. My hubby hasn't seen his son since he was 3, 11 years ago, but that's because his ex is a controlling,megabitch,entitled,cow and runs with the kid every time we show up. He feels like he's failed his son, but it's out of our control, after a bunch of wasted money on airline tickets we have none left to hire a lawyer.

You just hit the nail on the head with your dad. He broke the cycle and became a great dad, then a tragedy stole his perfect life and instead of fighting back for the one child he had left, he fell back to what was easier and less work and a way to drown out his pain without considering he still had one child that survived that he needed to be that great man for. He put up his walls and drank a moat around them so nobody ever hurt him again. He didn't stop to think he was hurting those left with him. And that is his loss. No matter how hard you try or how much you try, he won't let you in because his trench is deep and wide with a towering wall behind it. Unfortunately when someone gives up like that, there's not much anyone can do until he's ready to face the ugly truth. And that really breaks my heart.

Don't beat yourself up too much over circumstances beyond your control. Just strive to do better by your son this next year.

We had a few years, before I moved here, where we were really bonding. He started to respect me, I think, and he even openly admitted he admired my tenacity in the face of adversity. "I could never travel the country like you did," he told me once. "I'd die." We built a deck one summer, just before I left, and he and I were thick as thieves that year. I did a lot with him, he invited me to his poker game. I helped him fix up grandpa's place a bit (for when the time came soon) and nearly chopped off his thumb with a chainsaw (because he wouldn't listen and wanted to hold the branch). That saved his life, tho, because he found out at the hospital he had suffered a heart attack a few years prior and didn't know it, if he hadn't gotten a pace maker, he wouldn't have made it the rest of the year. But all the friendship came apart when I wasn't there anymore. And when I had my son, it really went downhill fast. They (meaning himand my step mom) would just berate me and tell me to disown my son. Finally we tried to buy a house together and do like we did before, but that wound up getting hairy when I didn't want to sign a sketchy contract with the man that had literally lied to me for 25 years and destroyed all my earthly possessions three or four times in my life because he was incapable of having healthy emotions. Just CUT IT OUT OF MY HEART. That's what he finally did to me. He said that the house was my inheritance now, and I was out of the family and I wasn't blood anyway and he'd just give the money he has when he dies (a considerable sum I really don't care about) to my deadbeat cousins that leached off my favorite relative for decades and bullied me my whole life. They were blood.

What'd they say to you?

Ahh thank you u/neuroplay_prod!

To answer the question... It's actually a combination of what they did and said that burned it into my brain forever. One of the men had grabbed me (mind you I was doped, dazed and almost 5yrs old) then shoved my hand into the warm wet gaping hole where her head once was and said "This is a bad dream, this is what a bad dream feels like. If you get up again you will be the next bad dream." I threw up all over myself from having my hand smushed into a freshly decapicated cavity.

My mom said I was gone for 3days, I had been bathed and had clean clothes on that weren't my own. When I was dropped off. I don't remember anything after throwing up,peeing myself then being force fed a warm glass of grape kool-aid that tasted like it had no sugar in it at all.

It's the most vivid memory I have.

Wow. That makes my PTSD seem like a cake walk in comparison.

And everyone wondered why I was an odd duck! Haha

Looking back on it now, explains why I didn't like playing with Barbie dolls... They're all young pretty blondes! They terrified me to no end! Makes sense as an adult now.

I don't like being alone.

I'm not sure I follow this question, but I'd like to answer it if I can. What did who say about what to whom?

Especially when I remember what they said to me when I woke up.

That ^...

/u/ArcticLover, this one's for you!

How does it feel to be a survivor knowing that you escaped death at such an early age?

A few of my musician buddies around town call me "the boy who lived" once in a while, to make me feel included (its a very sarcastic and biting culture around here) and that's about right. I appreciate every day I have, because in some alternate reality, I'm not.

You are clearly articulate and talented in communications in addition to having a unique and important message about empathy. Have you considered trying to change the world using this gift/curse? If so, how are you doing that or how do you plan on doing that?

You said you did standup, are you funny? Do you travel out of your rural area to do that? If so, do you have a tour schedule somewhere?

I do travel to Chicago (about 2 hours) to do open mics, but I don't have any money since I left the radio station. Just enought o keep the lights on and maintain a 500 calorie diet. It's tough, because they like me, but I never get to go and work on my material, and around here they just want guitar, so I'm always jumping fences and I'm not focused on one or the other as hard as I should be to be successful. I'm not really pro comic yet, but I would love to be. I've got material to spare, and most people think I'm funny. I'm also not afraid to shock the audience. I do a bit about how Batman and I have a lot in common, except the money. And the butler. The mansion. The fancy cape. Really we both just have dead parents. (That gets a gasp usually and a few nervous titters) Then I make them know that they shouldn't feel bad, I should feel bad! It's hella therapy, except there's a bunch more of them, and the booze is mandatory.

Well shit, if you're in Chicago again I'd love to come out for a show! I tried standup once at an open mic, it was really fun! I'd love to know how that felt with more than 4 people left in the audience.

So, how do you write a joke? Do funny things just pop in your head and you write them down to use for later? Is it from telling these stories to your friends and seeing which ones bank a lot of laughs? Or do you just save the stuff that's too fucked up to say in polite conversation for it? Do you ever feel nervous up there (I did before and after, but not during at all)? Have you tried weed instead of booze?

The funnier the joke is, the more sad and fucked up it is when you start to really examine what it means. I love dark humor because it makes me feel sane. Do you feel like you can't relate to the people around you, or just that they can't relate to you?

I can't relate to them... I'm going to do this backwards. Yeah, the dark stuff makes it okay, somehow. You poke fun at the darkness, and then it isn't so scary, and the audience feels it too. The booze is a two drink minimum. Most clubs have that. Plus the drive out. I smoke a lot of herb when I can, $$$, tho.

Writing a joke is all of those things. I construct them (Whats the difference between global warming and unprotected sex? Nothing they both feel great and scare the fuck outta me!) and stories that get a big laugh, gotta write those down right away or you'll forget them. And then the dark stuff, that's hard. You only know if it's hitting when you're on stage, because your friends will know you, and know you're joking. And audience can get a little tense.

I try to go as often as I can, HMU on FB. Sean Thomas Gill.

If you could say something to Tommy Sells now, what would you say?

I'd ask him what he dreams at night. He's been dead for a long time now, but I always wondered what his dreams must be like. Does he relish nightmares, is he scared at night like so many other people. Was he lonely a lot? Did he ever have a real friend? Did he ever try? I would pepper him with questions until I made him cry, and then I would too.

How did it feel knowing you were the only survivor? How did you cope with the lost of your mom and sister?

Since I was an infant, I never had to cope with the loss, that would have been more of a blessing because I could have shared in my father's grief, and maybe eased the pain for him, but I was nothing more than a big pink ham swaddled in a diaper, and that wasn't enough. My cousins bullied me a lot. I grew up with the understanding that

1. I was adopted and not the same as my cousins. (Jerks.)
2. My mother and sister were dead and my dad went nuts. (Seriously, the jerks.)
3. I would not be allowed to know the real details until I was much older. My father loved me deeply, but at first I suspect that looking at me made him feel like a failure.
   

I was teased a bit in grade (or primary) school while I still lived in the same area, but it subsided because it was hard to tease someone that couldn't be bothered by the teasing. I was oblivious for a long time. We moved to Indiana and I was in High school before I got my step gran to give me some news clippings and real details, but she was "scared your dad might hear us and he don't want any one to talk about it."

In the early aughts (those are zeros) they sentenced Sells to die by lethal injection, and again my Step family filled me in in private, this time with a whole newspaper about the killings and his role in it. Since it was the St. Louis paper, it went on about my pop, my mother, and my sister, and then the two others Sells was suspected of killing in Missouri. I found a time to ask my father if he was going to go to view it, as he had been invited. He said soberly, "It won't bring them back," and left it. I really admired that choice he made.

Finally, a few years ago (I'm in my 30's now) my ex-wife found the book expose' about the whole ordeal and the "Cross Country Killer" and I read it to get more info. then Inside Edition had a special just before his execution where he described his thoughts and why he did what he did, and that he deserved to die for it. he KNEW that. My step mother showed me that program on DVR when I came over one night. My father and I have rarely spoken about it, tho I have asked, and he did tell me a little so I knew he cared enough about me to say something, but never much. Only steering back to how much he loved me and how glad he was I was there. I just wish it had stayed like that. The only two people that really were there, and we can't even talk about the damn event, because I don't have any context, and he doesn't have any inkling. It's a life in the dark, but not in denial.

How did this mainly impact you as a teen? Were you bullied?

It was my cousins that bullied me most about it. I was adopted before they were taken from us, and when my father had to recuperate (meaning try to drink himself to death for a year) he left me with my uncle, and those two resented me to death for it. My uncle was always fond of me, because I was so "special." that led to some pretty bad ego problems in all forms of education. I was a huge target. when we moved out of state, I didn't hear about it again unless someone asked about it, and then it was different. I was in HS in the late '90's (Class of '00) and there was a lot of Serial Killer love going around, so it kind of helped.

Do you remember much of the incident?

I used to tell people that I did, but that's most likely a fabrication. I can recall little things about my sister, and mom, but nothing tangible. And their murder isn't something that I was old enough to remember. I may have slept the whole time.

Even talking about it makes you a braver man than I. I wish I could give you more, but upvotes is our currency.

Thanks for commenting. That's more than just an upvote for sure!

how old were you when this happened? What are you doing right now in your life? Do you think this experience badly affected your life? Do you try to create awareness about serial killers or do you think they aren't common enough to be warned about?

thanks for doing this AMA

I was one. Just adopted from a family. It was the worst thing that could have happened to my wonderful sweet father that I never got to know. He became bitter, distant, and prone to PTSD outbursts. He would never admit that it bothered him, had to be tough. He became kind of a weird guy for a bit. Abusive, violent. He'd cheat on my step-mom before they got married while she had to watch me. That led to a lot of resentment form her after a while. I grew up a latchkey kid. They just threw themselves into their work and began to worship the great god greed. They're really good at that too... Lots of money in their coffers. None in mine, now, as a grown man of 35. They've disowned me.

Serial Killing isn't just the only thing wrong. Thanks for asking that. It's mental health that is the problem. Tommy was on Inside Edition just before they executed him. he said he was like a rabid dog and needed to be put down. He was abused. I... I pitied him. I felt sympathy for him. Empathy. I would never do the things he did, and I can never just "be okay" with what happened, but he's a flawed human animal the same as the rest of us, and acting like he's some kind of monster isn't going to make it right. There needs to be more talk about mental wellness.

Why have you been disowned? It seems your father did once care quite a lot.

He did, still does probably, but he and I had a business deal kind of go bad. We went in on a house, and they (living 300 miles away and not willing to visit) seemed to think that I should be as well equipped as they're super rich selves. So when we had an outbreak of fleas (which I handled with bug bombs, no big deal) my parents turned on me, and I got in an argument with my step mother. After that, dad went cold, and sent me a BAD CONTRACT to sign without talking to anyone. I told him it was a bad deal, he had taught me all I knew about bad deals, and I wouldn't be his son if I signed that BAD DEAL. He told me fine, you're out of the family. That was it.

Hopefully in time that blows over. It would be a pity to lose a connection over that unless that's what you both want.

I agree, but I don't know how to approach it anymore. He's done this so many times in my life that I just don't know what to say to him anymore. I can forgive him all I want to, but I can't excuse the fact that he hasn't, and won't change.

Sometime you have to accept people for who they are. I have similar problems with my mother. It is better to be able to have lunch once a year than never speak again, in my mind. And in that way, it's less likely for bad things to happen because you're not close enough for them to break on.

I really wish that was the case, but they are the ones that avoid me. Ditching me on Christmas for 15 years (after telling me to come over), never visiting me in my new home (when they have more than the time and money needed), and not visiting my son that lives less than ten minutes away, they have been the ones to lose interest in our being family, and I can't make them want to be with me. It's not something I"m ready to force them to do anymore. I want it to be different, and I've tried so many times, but they never extend an olive branch, ask forgiveness, or even act like they've ever done anything to slight me in the least. I'm willing, but they aren't. So I'm not going to beat my head against a wall anymore. My step-mother (who I call Mom) wouldn't even go see her sister on her death bed when my aunt asked for her because she was too selfish. It was the last thing her sister wanted, was to see her, and she asked me later if she was a coward, and I told her no. I lied to make her feel better, but I know that if I cause them pain, they would rather avoid it than to face it like mature adults and confront themselves.

Forgot to mention, I'm a terrible landlord (I'll probably lose the house in a couple years since I can't afford the taxes) and a musician. I was a broadcaster, but my employer and I had some differences, I owned the building, so I walked away. I don't regret it, but I do miss doing radio every day. That was a little over a year ago.

Do you got anybody in your life right now? And, if so, have you opened up to them about your past?

I truly don't. I'm surrounded by shady characters in a tiny rural community that is paranoid of outsiders, and I'm one of 'em. It's all superficial "don't bring me down man." Not exactly good "bar talk" and that is the ONLY thing to do in this area. There aren't coffee shops and cultural centers for me to engage with people. All I have are drunks that do not want to have their buzz killed. And I respect that. If you don't want my burdens, I won't shuffle 'em off on to you. But it frustrates me that in 5 years I can't find someone that wants to have an earnest conversation about mental wellness and also be intelligent and well educated enough to talk to about it. If I hear one more god damned cat poster motivational slogan, I'm going to rip off my shirt and start tearing it into a little flag so I can plant it in the name of insanity.

edit: my last g/f tried, but she's "studying" psychology from an online web course and isn't smart enough to see that she's being scammed, not educated. Can't think for herself and wants to dole out the shittiest advice while her own life is falling apart. It's rough being a city boy in a country town.

As a rural American, this sounds too familiar. But replace 5 years with decades, and it's highly likely I'll be a loner for the remainder of my life.

Not relevant to the above, but I'm also a survivor of a serial killer, though we all escaped without being harmed.

Good to know there's others out there, toughing it out and holding vigil against the terror. I'm glad to hear that you all walked away! That's incredible. You at least had some inkling of what happened before and after tho. I was initiated this way. It's weird. Had to get it all second and third hand. Dad, understandably, won't talk about it. If I saw what he did, I probably wouldn't want to either.

And we had no idea what was going on at the time, so it was like a random encounter, and not much of a story to tell.

Horses involved? I feel like I know this tale...

sounds like a life. I'm sorry if I sound like your gf

That's okay, I have a life. It's not perfect, but I manage it, and I know that some of my fellow /r/edditors would sever an artery to have anything close to this kind of connection to people. It's just not what I'd become accustomed to. These folks are great people, they just don't see me as one of them, and if I'm honest, that's not untrue. I'm not really even hurt. They accept me plenty, I guess. Just not really my close pals that know anything about me and care if I die tomorrow. They don't ask, I don't volunteer. Their rules.

Sorry if this is insensitive, but... why stay there?

The building. I need to pay the taxes, and I can't just walk away form it without a trustworthy manager to watch it and collect rent while I'd be away, and now I have a lien because I'm late on the taxes (and they'll likely never get paid now) and now I can't sell my house to get out. It's a poverty stricken town that likes to turn people into "criminals" and steal from them. Civil rights abuses. I was a law abiding citizen five years ago. Now I have a huge rap sheet for traffic offenses, among other misdemeanors.

What do you think about the glorification of serial killers or the media's exploitation of these types of crimes for ratings?

That's a toughy. I fell into that for a while. Goth phase and all that in HS. I'm not personally offended, that's just culture. And to act like the characters in films aren't entertaining would be an outright lie to myself. Most people that I know that do this, really just want to appear tough or strong or interesting. Mostly it's a mask of protection. A good way to spot the others wearing similar masks. Anyone that loudly purports to be in love with serial murderers and thinking that's the coolest thing in the world, has a basic empathy problem. White trash are the most prevalent among the people I've met that idolize these deluded souls.

Ratings, on the other hand... I'm going to recuse myself, I work in broadcasting. It's just cold hard fact that people tune in to see blood and guts. It's a morbid fascination, and it sells.

do you like harry potter?

I do see some allegory between his life and mine, but I'm not a huge fan, just because I was a bit old to read the first book when I picked it up. After finishing it, I wasn't compelled to keep reading. I have seen all of the movies, and while I like it as much as the next fantasy and sci-fi fan, I'm not a fanatic. They're just fun movies.