I’m John Troyer. I grew up in the American Funeral industry, and focus on the interdisciplinary study of death, dying and dead bodies. I also run the Death Reference Desk which scours the web and beyond for All Things Death: from recommended books to commentary and analysis of death in the news. The COVID pandemic brought significant death and dying issues into everyday conversation and the pandemic also highlighted just how unprepared we are to manage the logistics of death.

In 2022 MIT Press published my book, “Technologies of the Human Corpse,” which examines the relationship of the dead body with technology through history, from 19th-century embalming machines and photography, to the AIDS Epidemic of the 1980s and today’s radical life extension tools.

I’m here from 2-3pm BST to field any questions you may have about death — good death, bad death, sad or nuanced death, culturally- and politically-charged death. Anything goes. Let’s talk death.

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Comments: 55 • Responses: 18  • Date: 

severe_fox072414 karma

Why do you think we embalm corpses (other than to preserve for medical/scientific research)?

Do you feel people are more or less comfortable with death following the Covid pandemic opening up more conversations?

UniversityofBath18 karma

Embalming has a long history. Our modern sense of it really begins in the 19th-century and creates a template that we follow today. As to why people do it, there are lots of reasons. Convention, family tradition, international repatriation requirements (sometimes).

Everything around COVID is extremely compelling to follow right now since we're still kind of in the middle of everything. That said, I do think we'll begin so see more research on the longer-term shifts on how and if people are discussing death and dying more. I do expect to see more discussion around grief and bereavement caused by COVID. In fact, this is already happening.

choke_my_chocobo9 karma

Have you ever spoken with individuals with near death experiences? If so, what were your biggest takeaways, what similarities did they have, and any other info!

UniversityofBath8 karma

Near Death Experiences or NDE's are a whole field of research. I haven't spoken with anyone who has had an NDE so I can't comment directly. But I am fascinated by the entire idea of the Near Death Experience as a phenomena in the 1970s. That's when they start emerging, particularly in popular culture with television shows like In Search Of (for those who remember Leonard Nimoy's side projects....) and That's Incredible in the early 1980s. The people who I am most intrigued by are the accounts where the person says they went to hell and then came back.

choke_my_chocobo3 karma

Do you think there’s any sort of relation between NDEs and peoples’ experiences while on DMT, ayahuasca, or similar substances?

UniversityofBath6 karma

That's a great question. I don't know, that said, back in the late 1960s and early 1970s LSD (and other substances) were being looked at to help with grief and bereavement. That was shut down by the War on Drugs but the research itself has come back.

Icy-Raspberry10619 karma

Based on your knowledge is it possible to cryogenically freeze a corpse and bring them back? Thanks

UniversityofBath23 karma

The short answer is No, it's not. That said, cryogenics has always been about 10-15 years away from working since 1968 or so. I'm skeptical that it's possible (or desirable) but I remain ever open-minded about these things!

Icy-Raspberry10618 karma

The way we dispose dead corpses today (cremation, burial...etc) is based on personal preference. Do you think in the future, corpses will be mainstream in harnessing clean energy? (Ex: microbial fuel cell technology)

UniversityofBath11 karma

Yes! I did a whole project on this a few years back.

I will also say that organ donation, for me, is one of the 20th centuries big breakthroughs in biomass recycling.

mattreyu8 karma

Based on how our views on what is considered "dead" has changed over the years as we learn more about the body and medicine in general, do you think we may ever come to a point where much of we consider dead now could be reversible? (Recently of course, nothing George Romero)

UniversityofBath21 karma

The short answer is Yes. The definition of death and dead has and will change. The key point in these conversations is what's considered 'irreversible'? The definition of death hinges on it being an irreversible condition, so there's room for definitional change here. This will always be a philosophical as much as biomedical question too.

Secret__Cinnamon7 karma

Thanks for this AMA. Where do you foresee the business of funeral homes going in the next 10-20 years? Do you expect that virtual funerals or memorial gatherings will eventually overtake traditional ceremonies? With that, will we perhaps see society overwhelmingly favoring creamation, further discarding the old ways of tombstones, caskets, and viewings?

UniversityofBath6 karma

I see the continued use of all the technologies you've listed. I do. I first came across funeral webcasting in 2007 so the idea of a virtual funeral has been around for a while --- then something like COVID happens and the tools become used in such a way that they become part of the normal practice.

Funerals in the West were already hybrid events and I don't see that changing in the coming years.

Danny_Inglewood6 karma

Hi John, all this info is fantastic. I actually delivered a paper over the summer for the International Gothic Association. My focus has been primarily 19th c. gothic novels and the real science inspiring the fictional scientists such as Frankenstein, Dr. Jekyll, Griffin (the Invisible Man), and Dr. Moreau. The focus has been to source the fear of science so prevalent among large groups during the pandemic. All of the above were written in speculation on up-to-date scientific theories and practices (such as Luigi Galvani's belief in scientific necromancy through electricity, Wells extrapolating the potential danger of newly discovered X-rays, etc.) But the masses have far more access to popular fiction containing fantastic and speculative science as oppose to clear and easy access to real scientific theorems, advancements, etc. So, what seems to result is a sort of intertextuality of fact and fiction, which feeds inherent prejudice or mistrust in actual medical science.

Apologies for the ramble. I am most curious if you have ever come across any odd correlations with the scientific revolution of the late 19th and early 20th century and our relationship to death? Or any rise of misconceptions.

The genesis of my question is that, at least in Canada, many anti-vax arguments were from a fear of "DNA mutation." I'm wondering if you might have any similar anecdotes from your field.

Thank you for your time and this wildly interesting AMA.

UniversityofBath7 karma

Always remember that a lot of organ transplantation was originally frowned upon and outright condemned in the 20th century since it meant humans were acting like Gods! The list goes on and on. You're totally right about the 'science' and 'technology' of the moment and how we humans use these/those moments to define and understand death. Bill Gates made me answer this question this way. I'm kidding.

UniversityofBath6 karma

Let's get this AMA STARTED, YO!

ArTooDeeTooTattoo5 karma

How do you think about your own death?

UniversityofBath15 karma

The main thing for me in being an organ, bone, and tissue donor if possible -- so I think about it very practically. My main advice to everyone is to communicate your wishes to all your loved ones and friend and also put those wishes in writing (if you can). I've done all these things and I think it can give a person a certain peace of mind that you've begun arranging things.

ArTooDeeTooTattoo7 karma

Thank you for your response. I started therapy and anti anxiety medication this year after a pretty stressful breakdown dealing with the subject. But the idea that some good could come from it helps a lot.

I appreciate you doing the AMA. It’s not a topic that folks usually get to chat about casually.

UniversityofBath13 karma

I grew up in the American funeral business so it's totally normal for me to talk about death and dying. My sister called it my Superpower.

That said, I think making it an everyday normal conversation is key.

Icy-Raspberry10615 karma

Recently some scientists were able to bring back brain function from deceased pigs after several days using a cocktail of nutrients, blood..etc

Do you see this happening to humans in the next 10 years. The ability to theoretically bring people back with both organ transplantation and restarting the brain?

UniversityofBath9 karma

The recent pig brain function is extremely fascinating. The honest answer is no one knows and even if you could do the same kind of thing to a human brain, how do you prevent stroke, or memory loss, or cognitive damage in general. The idea of a 'brain transplant' or re-starting the brain has been described as the 'death of death' since around 1950s but we humans are nowhere near that kind of neuro medicine.

EveryFairyDies4 karma

Which would give the best benefit, donating my body to science, or being a organ donor? Or is it possible to do both?

UniversityofBath8 karma

I always recommend organ donation since there's a much bigger need for donors. Many med schools have a surplus of donors so if you go that route then have a back-up plan in place.

Annual-Mud-9874 karma

You mentioned that both AIDS and Covid had an impact on we view death and dying. How similar or different were these events in regards to death and dying do you think?

UniversityofBath5 karma

Great question. The think to keep in mind is that so much pandemic response planning (and mass fatality planning in general) developed many tools as a result of the AIDS Epidemic (which is still happening) and those tools were deployed during COVID. I think what shocked many people in the West was to see those plans being used. One important difference between AIDS and COVID was how homophobia (in particular) played a key role in pathologising the dead. This is a topic that will be studied for many years.

kiss_me_billy2 karma

Not a lot of people know this, but your late brother Verne had a successful few years after starring in the Austin Powers movies. Would you say that acting is a talent that runs in your family, or was your brother’s success a special case? And did Verne ever try tinkering with undead cyborg technology or was he pretty focused on a career as a thespian?

UniversityofBath8 karma

Soooooo Verne Troyer and I are cousins. True story.

The Troyers are Amish and he's from the Michigan side of the family. I'm from the Indiana side. That said, 6'4" and therein our paths diverged.

I am also an actor and spoke with agent like 20-years-ago about doing a show with cousin Verne but cousin Verne's people weren't interested. So it goes.

Icy-Raspberry10611 karma

What happens in your mind when you die? Can you still think, hear conversations? For how long?

UniversityofBath2 karma

No one knows the answer to that question, I don't think. Not really. There's some research around consciousness and Near Death Experiences but that's not totally dead.

Icy-Raspberry10610 karma

Elon musk is working on technology that allows you to store your mind in an AI interface ("mind uploading"), essentially making it possible for us (not our bodies) to live forever. What are your thoughts on this technology?

UniversityofBath8 karma

Well. You know. Elon Musk can go first. I'm not convinced we're anywhere near that level of neuro-machine interfacing. Could it work? Maybe. One issue I'm interested in is legal standing if and when this technology becomes viable. Does an uploaded dead consciousness have legal rights? And now is when we move into talking about Black Mirror!

Icy-Raspberry10612 karma

Sorry for all the questions. Have been thinking a lot about technology and death. I'll check out your book. Thanks again for your AMA

UniversityofBath3 karma

EVERYONE SHOULD READ MY BOOK!!!

Technologies of the Human Corpse --

https://johntroyer.com/