Edmund McMillen here! known for The Binding of Isaac, Super Meat Boy and being featured in Indie Game: The Movie ( im the fat, brown, hairy one ). Im designing my first physical card game, The Binding of Isaac. AMA!

Which boss did you enjoy designing the most and why is it not Bloat?

in isaac i loved designing the duke of flies most, i just love how he plays, in four souls i think steven was probably my fav boss to redesign because i made him bend time.

I was so excited to learn about Mewgenics, and then saddened to hear about how it's probably not happening, and then DOUBLY excited to learn it might happen! My wife is not that into video games, but this has her interest piqued, too!

Any word on how this is going? Timetable? Challenges? I want to know eeeeeverything!

after i left team meat tyler glaiel and i started talkig about remaking mewgenics as a team. after the end is nigh released tyler started on the engine for it and the design is flowing but its not the focal point of my time currently. i need to finish the legend of bum-bo and this card game before i jump back in full time.

mewgenics is a monster, it will take dedication and lots of time, i dont have time just yet

Hey Edmund!

Why is the shipping of "The Binding of Isaac: 4 Souls" to Europe so expensive? In Germany for example we have to pay additionally 19% customs duty on the complete price (including shipping) :(

shipping overseas can be a bitch, especially when the box weighs a lot and with all the cards, dice, pennies, and instructions stuff just gets pricey. Studio71 looked into many different options with out making things feel cheap (ie paper coins, online instructions etc) and so far this is what works best.

but we definitely hear you loud and clear and are doing our best to make everything worth the cost. the higher that number goes the more we can add.

What's your best music album of all time?

its hard to choose my top, but my fave albums of all time are probably.

1. ok computer - radiohead
2. nevermind - nirvana
3. melvins - lysol
4. like clockwork - QOTSA
5. david comes to life - fucked up
6. aeroplane over the sea - neutral milk hotel
7. Siamese dream - smashing pumpkins
8. lift your skinny fists - godspeed
9. aenima - tool
10. relationship of - ATDI

Hey Edmund, big fan. Thanks for all the hard work you and team put into making Isaac an unbelievably fun and infinitely replayable game!

What challenges did you encounter when making the card game that differed from the typical challenges you run into making a video game?

mostly the challenges were, how do we print, ship and promote this? and studio17 is dealing with that so that makes my life A LOT easier.. we had a shop for a while and it was constantly down due to the amount of work it took to fulfill the shipping.. and after a few years we closed it.. just couldnt deal.

i wouldnt call it a challenge but one of the things i ran into that i didnt expect was how people play irl games very differently. there are almost social archetypes that people fall into when it comes to play style.. once i noticed this i actually made items based on these to complement those type of people

What do you think on doing an official DLC for Tabletop Simulator or an app so people can play Four Souls on PC?

By the way, congrats on the success of the kickstarter! can't wait to play Four Souls at parties!

so what i discovered right away when designing a irl social game is.. ITS NOTHING LIKE A DIGITAL GAME AT ALL. that probably sounds strange but its night and day, from dev to playing.

irl gaming with friends is super interesting, you see reactions and subtle facial tells, you see peoples personalities come out in their play style and i think all of this would be lost in a digital version.

i hear that people want it, but the anal purist inside me is screamin "thats the opposite of what i was trying to do!!"

Thinking about partnering with Ultra Pro or someone to get sleeves made? Would be cool to have sleeves specific for treasures, monsters, etc.

we hear you loud and clear on sleeves, working on that right now!

Is there a reason that you can't use yum heart on monsters? Of the revealed characters, it doesn't look like maggie can do much to hurt other players.

i may change this... maggy just doesnt feel like an asshole.. but you are right, design wise she needs this.

ok yes, im changing it. thanks :)

Hi Ed, Glad you are taking the time to do an AMA.

What are some of the additional items you would like to do for purchase (metal coins, additional mats or figures, etc...) Do you plan on any additional expansions in the future should this game do well?

i love to do everything you mentioned, the higher the backer number goes the more possible things get, i really wanna add some cool stickers to the boxes... i really love physical stuff and i didnt get to do much in terms of isaac merch so im doing my best to strike while the iron is hot and really do some cool isaac themed stuff for this kickstarter.

if people love the game when it releases i could def see myself designing an expansion :)

Hi Edmund,

Have your various successes affected your output or work ethic?

Thanks for the AMA!

for a while it effected my work ethic by making me obsessively work more. its always been an issue and a point of contention in my relationship with my wife.. and it got out of hand around the release of isaac.

since the birth of our daughter ive learned to calm down and take things slower. ive defaulted back to just "designer/art director" on a few of my upcoming projects (like thefoursouls.com ) and even with bum-bo james is handling the bulk of the busty work and art (outside of my childlike drawings).

so far ive been a lot happier, and so has my wife and child.. so stuff is better now

Are you thinking about selling Binding of Isaac tarot decks ever again? I missed my opportunity to buy it and now I'm regretting it so much :(

maybe one day, currently tyrone has what remains of the decks and wants to sell them in the nicalis shop when it opens

What has been your favorite part of the development process of your card game?

Also, is Proptosis a card in the game?

it sounds cheesy but working with my wife has been the best part. she was always a tester or just on the outside of dev so doing this with her was almost a magical experience, and releasing it has been so neat to see her just as excited as i am about everything because she knows she really put a lot into it.

without her a great majority of whats on that kickstarter wouldnt be there.

and no, no proptosis ... yet!

Hey Edmund, really excited for the Card Game (Just backed!). I have just a few questions relating to the game and Kickstarter:

• Including the expansion, will every character be playable?
• The Stretch Goals are very unlike the usual ones you see on Kickstarter. How did you come up with them, and how are you liking them so far?
• Even though you didn't design the items yourself, will we see any Booster Pack Items in the Game?
• Since this one of your first games with multiplayer being the main draw of it (I think), how has it been testing with multiple friends and family instead of most often yourself?

Thanks!

1. i dont think so but im working on it
2. the stretch goals are fun, i mostly wanted to see people do weird shit and im enjoying it.
3. im not sure yet
4. its been eye opening, i feel like i leveled up as a designer after making this

Hi Edmund, you said each starting item is supposed to have a duality of sorts... Could you give an example of this for Maggie?

im changing it to also heal monsters (thanks reddit)

Aside from MtG, what were your boardgame influences for the Isaac card game?

oddly enough, catan was a big one. i really like the barter and social interaction of it, and i also pulled a few alt win cons. from it via the longest road and biggest army. in four souls there are 2 bonus souls called the soul of greed and the soul of gluttony that when conditions are met, a player gains said bonus soul.

alt win conditions are always great in games like this, im working on one more now!

Hi! Long time fan here. How did you deal/feel with the popularity of The Binding of Isaac? It's such a niche game that I've found that anyone I've introduced it enjoys. The concept for the story is so out there, it's almost hard to believe that it caught on! Keep being awesome dude :)

its super weird, thats all i can really say. its very odd to have made a popular game like super meat boy, assume thats it and im done and everything else will be compared so whats the point, decide to just make weirdo games like i used to for fun since im ok financially, then release a game that would eclipse meat boy like 5 times over...

its fucking weird, but it gives me faith. there is this feeling of freedom when you make something that is just no holds barred and totally inspired, you kinda open up and let it all out and everything falls into place perfectly. i had that feeling when working on isaac, and i had that feeling again when doing four souls.

Did the Indie Game: The Movie change your life in any way? It's how I found your games so I was wondering if it affected your life at all.

it made a lot of people assume that the only game i made was super meat boy, and that i just released it. people still come up to me and say hey i just saw the movie and played the game, working on anything else... that was almost 10 years ago!

outside of that not really

Hi Edmund, I’ve been a big fan of your work since Afterbirth, I’m really honored to be able to ask you a question today! I have a few lined up, you can answer whichever ones you want!

1. What’s one thing you always wanted to add to Isaac but were never able to due to technical limitations or other things?

2. Was the Bloat always meant to be so difficult, or was he never nerfed simply for the meme?

3. Why does Krampus get worse with every update?

4. Regarding Four Souls, can we expect every playable character to appear, or are there some that just won’t be able to make the cut?

5. In the future, could we possibly get Antibirth Characters and Monsters added into Four Souls? I realize it’s a fanmade mod but I think both I and the rest of the community would really like to see some of its ideas officially realized!

Thank you for taking the time to read these questions, I eagerly await your response!

1. online multiplayer
2. hes not that hard
3. hes the new bloat
4. there are some on the design table that im not sure about yet, i want as many to be in as possible without making redundant ones
5. im not sure that will happen, but we are hoping to include an add-on of blank cards so people can mod their games ;)

Hey Ed! Big thanks to you and everyone else that made Isaac, for taking up over 800 hours of my time. You are such an inspiration!

Anyway, you said that Four Souls will be 2-4 players, correct? How will the varying number of players affect the gameplay, and is their a suggested exact number of players?

Also, if there was one game that you've made that you had to get rid of, what would it be?

Thanks!

you can play 4+ but i think going above 6 is a bad idea and games will take ages. i dunno if you play magic but a 6 player game of commander can take hours and hours, and this can compare in some ways to that setup.

the 2 player game is solid but starts slightly different, you kinda draft a few items first (wip).

3 players is also good, 4 is the ideal and just feels better since its also 4 souls and isaac started with 4 playable characters. 4 sides to a table... 4 suits to the tarot, 4 swords, 4 skin.. etc

Is BOI the video game done for good? Will we ever see more characters or another expansion?

i feel like this is the year of isaac... we shall see what happens

Hi Edmund! Thanks for doing this AMA. You are a big inspiration! My question is, If the card game continue to do this well in Kickstarter, there is a possiblity that we can get a spanish version?

either way ill try and make sure there is an online instruction manual that is translated

i dunno how this works at all but i wouldnt be against it of course if the orders from specific non English speaking countries were abundant.

How many cards is too many cards?

no

Hey Ed. My name is Tomas Gonzalez, im from Argentina and i wanted to tell you that you are a huge inspiration for me, i got in development because of you and now im creating my second project. I wanted to ask you How impressed are you for with Isaac's success being a 3 month game that you wanted to give for free?. Also, do you think "speedrunning" projects like isaac and other games you worked on helps for improving in game design?

Thank you! <3

i hope you enjoy making stuff as much as i do. indie games are hard to make a living off of, but like anything, if it really makes you happy and you are smart about it, you should live a much fuller life, art is helpful for a great deal of people. :)

im pretty damn impressed about Isaac success. it still makes no sense to me

Do you plan on doing any streams of the Four Souls being played so we can get a better idea of the flow of the game?

for sure, we will def. stream us playing the prototype soon!

Why so sexy? Plus I want Bumbo

i credit my mothers brown half, shes half Hispanic and my was a leprechaun. that combo = sex

youll get bumbo my friend... youll get him

Anything on the Steam Sale you'd recommend?

Also want to say that I admire your creativity, I love the energy and passion that you put into everything you make! Thanks :)

get fingered !

https://store.steampowered.com/app/384360/Fingered/

and also the end is nigh is on sale for 60% off!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/583470/The_End_Is_Nigh/

also highly recommend slay the spire, i dunno if its on sale but im guessing it is

I'm curious, was the upcoming Four Souls game what you were hinting at all the way back in your New Years blog post? Just wondering if I should be expecting anymore surprise Isaac awesomeness or not. I'm also curious if we might be seeing anything from the Booster Packs in Four souls?

Either way, I'm super hyped for both Four Souls and Bum-bo. I've never actually played a Social card game or a Match-4 game really, if you can believe it. But Isaac was my first Roguelite and really got me into the genre, so I'm willing to try anything new and discover things all over again! Thanks for the great games.

i was, i was entertaining the idea of doing it.. had no design yet, but it was rattling around up there back then.

expansions in the future are possible

What's your favourite isaac character and why? Same question goes for Danielle

in four souls its eve, because she messes with decks and discard piles.. shes the dark horse of the game that strikes when people arent paying attention and has a lot of strategy behind her.

Ds fave isaac character is Isaac in the digital game and eve in the card game.. i hope i dont have to nerf eve..

Hey edmund,

So I love card and table top games and have been a big fan of issac for years so this was a dream creation. From my understanding the game seems to play somewhat along the lines of how munchkin plays. I love games like munchkin but they can be hit or miss with how games go for everyone. Whats your thought process when balancing and designing cards and items? How would you want the average game to play out?

i designed the item cards around archetypes based on play styles (trolly, agro, control, defensive, dice rolls, self harm and chaos) so as you level up your character you sometimes fall into one or more of these, and having a progressive shop of face up cards allows you to "draft" into them more easily.

when it comes to monsters i went in deep trying simulate the random room gen. there are monsters that help other monsters, or even help players, random happenings, random rewards and unexpected ambushes.

my goal was to make the game feel totally dynamic in the most simple way possible, and to design the cards that force the players to interact, help and compete at all times

What are the chances of the collectible figures will be put as an add on in the kickstarter campaign? I need them in my life Haha

there are 4 in one of the highest tiers, there may be bonus ones as add-ons later but not the same ones as in the tier

Will there be variants of the game for different amount of players?

yes, i have variants for 2 players, and slight mods to rules for 5 and 6

Hey Ed I love Isaac and the world you created.

2 questions:

1) You seem to have a pretty deep knowledge of Christianity, were you raised Christian? If so, why take the route with Isaac you did. - I ask because I love the game and while raised Catholic don't consider myself one and am always interested in other people's stories as well.

2) In regards to 4 souls will the collectors box have dividers to keep the different decks separate?

Cheers man!

BTW Peach is adorable! hope she is feeling better after the sting.

1. i was raised catholic, actually did 7 years of catechism. i dont have an amazingly good knowledge of the bible,but i do have google... the bible is just such a crazy book, so creative and allegorical its hard to not be inspired by it as a creative person.
2. dividers are a cool idea... but not need since youll be able to see the basic split of decks due to the different colors on the cards backs
3. peach is fine,but we found 2 more bee stings on her legs :( danielle on the other hand had a bad reaction to hers (but shes still breathing, ican hear it behind me)

Any chance to get EU friendly shipping ?

doing our best on that, hoping to add more stuff to the box to make up for it. but we are always looking out and checking options

Any chance Bumbo is one of the playable characters? (Either unlockable or part of gold expansion.)

we... shall .. seee

Is there any approximation for when Four Souls will come out? Within 3 months, by the end of the year, etc?

by the end of the year

Hey Ed! Big fan of all the things you make! As both a gamer and board game enthusiast I am absolutely thrilled to play this game! I always like to hear about your inspirations when creating your other games, so what board games did you draw inspiration from to make this one? At a glance I see a lot of Munchkin and MtG in there.

Also, not counting any of your current projects, what is another genre of games (physical or digital) that you've thought about making?

id love to make a puzzle game like the witness, but that takes a lot of 3d, money and time. id love to make a muliplayer digital game (also hard) and mewgenics :)

Are you planning on opening up paypal payments for backing the kickstarter for people who don't have access to a credit card?

we can do that?

im sure they are looking into this right now actually, if not ill let them know

Why start making card games? And why BoI?

ive tried in the past but printing, shipping and testing felt hard so i shelved the idea ( it was a more simple spacial kids game about parasites ).

i LOVE board and card games, especialy MTG. i actually designed a card for them once ( cruel sadist ), it was a huge honor.

i went with isaac because initially thats what the studio asked about when i started talking to them. i didnt have ideas then, but a year later they had planted a pretty solid seed and an idea came!

Hey. Will you ever add more to the game? Like buyable extra packs?

add-ons and more tiers coming soon

I love you two. I wish you all the success in the world. When will we get to see the game actually played?

ill stream it soon!

Do you plan on continuing support for the card game after launch with more expansions or guest expansions (such as characters and items from other indie games)? It would be cool to see this expand even further.

if people love it, for sure

Hi Edmund! What's your favourite horror movie of all times? Congratulations on your Kickstarter succes :)

i tend to lean towards the gory funny ones.

Dead Alive

Evil Dead 2

Toxic Avenger

Was Isaac outside of your comfort zone to make orginally? Or did you enjoy making it?

it was, but i totaly loved it. it didnt feel like isaac till the end of dev so there were points where it wasnt fun and i was scared.. but it got there

Hey Edmund love your work and got the girlfriend PLUS her best friend obsessed with your work years ago.

 

My question I have for you is did you expect for the Kickstarter to blow up the way it did? Getting 1000% funded in 2 days is pretty damn astounding. I know you expected the BoI games to be a small indie title when you first made it in Flash and was wondering if you felt similar to then as you did with this?

 

Also how is Peach and Danielle doing? I think I read some where that Danielle helped made the board game and just curious if she is just as excited as you are over this awesome Kickstarter!

Thanks for being awesome and I can't wait to play your board game <3.

im not a person that was ever obsessed or focused on traditional success, i just wanted to make enough money and do things i loved. i designed my life around this, everything ive done since i was 16 was done specifically to raise the possibility of being able to eventually make a living off my work when i was older.

i gave up once, but came back to it a year later after losing my "real job" and just stuck with it and worked as hard as i possibly could. after 10 years i was basically able to pay rent with my work, a year after that meat boy released and stuff started snowballing.

even with isaac, i never expected this at all.

D and peach are great, a little bee sting ridden but good :) (shes probably more excited than i am)

Will Tech X make a card appearance, or any of the booster pack items by the community?

yeah its pretty fucking good too, it needs to charge up, bit when it goes off it can kill almost anything

Will Ouroboros ever be a thing?

it did kinda become the end is nigh, bit its different enough to warrant exploring more later on

as an indie developer, what are your opinions on the state of AAA games currently? (loot boxes micro transactions etc.)

all abusive digital bs can be done right if you put in the time and dont just grab the cash (overwatch loot boxes are perfect imo)

but its honestly whatever, if people allow it and buy the games devs will keep doing whatever they want to make money, AAA is business, the devs care about the games but the company is run by money and business people who say what stays and what goes.

it is what it is, i just avoid really abusive stuff as much as i can

do you have any advice for people learning how to cook?

dont poison anyone

Hey ed,

What is your favorite mechanic in the four souls? And what is your favorite monster?

im a big fan of room to room monster simulation and the hidden info loot cards, they really change things drastically as you play.

monster wise,there is a series of "cursed" monsters that effect everyone when they are out that i think are super cool. ill post an example of one on twitter today since people unlocked it a few min ago via our stretch goals

Are there any video games that you keep coming back to?

I've played a ton of BoI on PC and now have been going through it on the Switch. It's just really really fun and I love how the progression. Thanks for making such a fun game!

overwatch.. Danielle and i play it A LOT and its become one of my fav games of all time.

What made you want to get into game design? p.s I’m a big fan and love all of your work

i feel into it honestly, i was a comic artist/writer and i was looking for work. alex austin hired me to do box design for one of his bridge builder games and after a few months i came up with a weird blob design for a character that complemented his physics based engines... gish was the first game i released that i made money off of and that was it for me, i was set and really loving it

Have you gotten a lot of playtesting on this? Did your team have experience doing similar activities in the past?

so far we have tested a great deal, but once the KS ends we will be doing a lot more with the help of robert bowling and his team as well as studio71.

What part of the dev process do you like the most? Prototyping, making art, designing new things or systems, actually releasing the game, etc?

i love desiging and testing, i hate releasing its stressful and you always feel bad after.. its like postpartum depression. im not looking forward to that feeling when this actually launches. i didnt feel bad when i put it isaac though, probably because i never stopped working on it

I saw you at the Sand City target starbucks a few months ago while I was on vacation but you were going to the bathroom and I was on the way out with my very cranky baby boy. You were wearing a Steven t-shirt, and I wish I had a better opportunity to tell you I love BoI and get a pic, but hey, nature calls!

Should I barge in next time and holler over the stall or leave you to your pissing freedom?

ah sand city! we go there for the seaglass ;)

and yes, im totaly find with people saying hey. people have gotten really good about how they "bother me" these days and rarely just yell "meat ball" at me while im walking down the street. my basic rule of thumb is, if i look like im in a rush because my baby shit herself and is screaming, then just give me that head nod and we are good. if not come and say hey :)

Are we ever going to get more backup files of Freddy the Robot? My friend and I almost pissed our pants reading those back in the Newgrounds days.

haha, i kinda got to write in that style when making time fcuk, and again for fingered,

https://store.steampowered.com/app/384360/Fingered/

if you check out the 2nd trailer on that page youll notice it has that same kinda vibe.

i dont see anymore backup files coming, but i wouldnt doubt that one day ill use that style in a new game

Hey Ed. Can't wait to hold the cards in my hands and play them out. I've been cheering over your like on twitter, so how big are the chances to get a random foil per purchased Edition? :3

we are working on something like this... stay tuned

Can anything be done for people outside of the US that aren’t fans of paying double the price for TBoI: 4 Souls, due to shipping costs?

Congrats on the Kickstarter success btw, you deserve all the goodwill after your past projects.

we are working on it, but we may just end up packing as much stuff in the box as we can without going up another weight tier

How has having a child affected your creative and design processes? Do you find yourself looking at things from a different point of view than before?

Thanks for Isaac and all your other games! I have put far more time into Rebirth than any other game I can remember.

ive rolled back on the heavy lifting, i focus my time in what im best at, design and character design. i do my best to spend more time with my family these days, im still finding that balance but its working out well.

What's your main inspiration for The Binding of Isaac?

the bible

What does Four Souls have over Munchkin?

i wish i had played munchkin more to know the answer to this, i know munchkin has 2 decks monster and treasure deck right? so it shares those elements, but four souls has a loot deck full of "fast effect" cards, a dynamic monster deck thathas a lot more than monsters and a completely different gameplay setup.

check out the how to play + on thefoursouls.com for more indepth inst.

What inspired your unique artistic style?

garbage pail kids, sam keith, tim burton, sanrio, mag magazine, ren and stimpy

Some friends and I are starting developing our first game... Any useful advice? :)

read this ( i wrote it )

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/117521/Opinion_Indie_Game_Design_Dos_and_Donts_A_Manifesto.php